is also a cost savings for, for the maintenance of their empire while the rows of, of this use our nets is peter lavelle on call. so kind of moving back with the latest headlines on the al ah ah, hello and welcome to cross hock. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . my what a few days in some missiles can make rushes retaliation to the attack on the crimea bridge was focused and deadly. will kevin, it's western handlers now think twice before engaging in more sabotaged and terrorist assaults. the choice is there's ah

cross sucking flipping the script, i'm joined by my guess tom longo in north florida. his publisher of the gold goats in guns blog and newsletter in tulsa, we have jeremy cars motto, he is managing editor of covert action magazine and in washington state we crossed to andre marciano. he is a writer, as well as a military and political analyst. all right, crosses rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. ok, i want to start with andre in washington state. i'm sorry. can you, can you clear up a misunderstanding? i keep hearing about them. i thought the russia had no more ammunition, didn't have any missiles. they were relying upon china to come to reap replenish stocks and they need a rainy and drones and then all of a sudden yesterday and today happened. can you explain this to me, andre? on for us it's merits you because they need from all this marriage, you wash and back work, you know, bring me your people. oh gosh,

they're going to be destroyed because of the lack of mcdonald's and i false. and secondly, as i restated and it's in my books, it's everywhere i write about it for years as a home is the fact that they don't study the country as our state of dead being military in our economically blocks have what are the aspects of their state activity, they simply don't know. those who know don't on all down law allowed to have that you put. and that is why we have the situation one being exist and some kind of the informational bible echo chamber. and that's what it is. i mean, no matter how you try to reasonably those people who can reason, but they don't understand it. they go to tom tom that because this is a big surprise, you know, the, you know, we always have to point out in this program is that when you have a bad narrative, you get bad results. ok, and this is result of this of nit, this narrative the,

the interesting question is going to be, is, will care with the backing of the u. s. continue with the sabotage events like the north stream? i like the crimean bridge because you now they know what the reaction of the russians is going to be the question i want to ask all of you before the program is over. why didn't this happen or after february 24th, but maybe that's a moot point. tom, go ahead. well, when i say peters that they've opened up a can of worms that they are, that now is, is very dangerous right now. civilian infrastructure in international waters is open is fair game they've gotten, i think they, i'll be honest with you. i think the u. s. i think it's more the brits in the polls than it is the u. s. is probably a mixture of all of them with the u. s. having plausible deniability or at least factions within the u. s. have a possible deniability where we're behind all the stuff and like to me it's very clear that they want the war. they want to an a wider war,

but not sure on what terms they want that wider. they just want to be able to get to eat and the russians to overreact to whatever provocation, you know, they keep punching the rushes in the face, and they keep hoping that the russians as they are i us enough. and we're just in there, which then gives us the, the, the west gives them the moral high ground to say, ok, now it's time to take a rush. well, it but tom that, that's, that works under the assumption that, you know, i've been playing with this. who's got the time and who's got the clocks. oh, and again they keep showing that the russians have both jeremy, i mean, it's really quite remarkable. yeah. okay. maybe the brit and maybe the poles. of course the americans know about it. but isn't it kind of pathetic when you think about it? is it okay? let's do another sabotage event, but it's not the u. k. that sabotage. it's not poland, it's off. it does. it's not the you, it's ukraine. i mean with these kind of friends, ukraine is good to run out of people and land. very, very quickly. jeremy jump in. well, yeah,

i think ultimately grained and buying their own destruction. and you know, they, you know, they had carried out massive atrocities and terrorist activities. car bombings within russia. busy i think us intelligence admitted that ukraine was behind us. somehow they're able to sustain some kind of moral high ground. that's one thing that i like to see people waving ukrainian flags and have the cranium flag in their house when it's a. busy government that was voted one of the most corrupt in europe is not the world that carries a brazen terrorist activities. and that basically, sol, that's interest as a country to these foreign powers who have a very pernicious agenda playing a very dangerous game as the other 2 guess, pointed out. yeah, because it has nothing to do with ukraine and all has to do about somehow degrading rushes power, humiliating, and miss. we've seen this playbook for 30 years since the end of the cold war. there is the special military operation in play. is

a special military operation. plus, i mean it's very clear to me because we have the partial mobilization how and then we had these barrage of attacks, of course, of 2 days. it's the same military strategy and play. go ahead. yeah, absolutely, absolutely. don't forget that the planning goes no jobs online. you have to develop the decision free. one last little reparations and or if your forwarded or object area or the combined and especially united states or got that will be more and more as opperation. and the rushing scepter basically dial $211.00. and after talk with the partial mobile is ation. and basically, as you do, the job strapped a job which got on for the last 48 hours and it will continue. so once you have your domain name from scaffolds palatial, i'm a nation,

it's relatively easy if you look at here from the point of view of the nation, all this bay door, basically from back to me, your political body to go over off of the day is basically, all you know, these beds are wrong from your region. the country now mass pulled euro, if those ways it's working just euro all sold bought. so it's not just new address bar where people forget the larger your political issue and this is actually easier goodwill. there you have to go, well, it will be defeated, which is scaffolding as being or i should walk up, you know, but so it's not, i think that backlash has enough and still base regular, severe. you know, it's how much when the special military operation was announced, the, the 2 goals were denot vacation anemic. demilitarization, i think as a result of the last couple of days we couldn't crow when

d electric is ation as well. i mean, basically turning out the lights, which is shown to be quite easy to do at very low cost and low cost in lives as well. tom. yeah, and, and this is the further what andre was saying. i agree. and that this is an economic war as much as is a military war, and it's very clear that it's, it's a political war as well. and i've been saying to be any of this that it's always was meant to be a, a war of attrition on both sides and that their shock and all on on both sides of the. so we had little shocking off in the russians yesterday with a massive missile attack. we had shocking off in the americans and europeans with sanctions attacks back february, march. and now the question is, who's gonna, who's political will, as andrea would pointed out, who's political will at home, whose political support at home is gonna run out 1st is, are going to be the west was, is going to be prudent. my bet is that it's going to be the west clo, i agree with that terry logical, because jeremy mean, um,

this is not of any real strategic value to the united states, even to even to western europe. i mean, but it is russia's back yard or front porch whenever you want to put it. it is of great national importance that are defense and so that's why i think that they would have much longer resolved. and i think over the last 2 days we've seen that's the most important word that comes to my mind is resolved this thing. so this phase started on the 24th of february and it will be continued till completion, jeremy 1000000000. i think you also look at the economic situation in europe. i mean the sabotaged and urge dream pipeline adversely affects europe with the skyrocketing gas prices and heating crisis, heading into the winter and the tearing economic conditions. i think you're going to see, you know, potential unrest in europe and already there, i think divisions, you always see that in germany. gerhard schroeder, been strongly against a lot of the german policies, more toward cooperation with russia and against the war. so yeah,

i think we're already seeing a break in europe, especially related to the tearing or turing economic situation. and it's really not in the interest of the public whether in europe or the united states. where is the rushes fighting a life or death struggle and has tangible security interest. busy so i think the publics are going to wake up soon and have been so much deception in western governments about this conflict that just like a rack. i mean, we're just waiting for the bubble burst and more people to acknowledge the hollow of deception at play. you know, under, if it's so curious who are watching politicians in europe react to all what's going on. i mean, we had a french energy official coming out and saying the americans, we look at, they're charging us for, for liquid, for natural gas, you know, but they're not talking about capping american energy, but, but only russian. and then you have german officials coming up. we're facing d v industrialization, but they're all fill in lock step,

like zombies with this policy, it's insane watching it. go ahead tom. i'm sorry andre andre, go ahead. go ahead. andre. well, it's pretty simple. that's what many people do. span. russia has origin you're off. europe is locked in, you more important washer economic and complete a torch, asia will continue and it's actually speaking up to base as we'll see it. so in this particular case, if europe wants to commit suicide, would you please meeting as we speak so well? so be it and again, is that right? you stayed are people who were planning and as usual, game is called later because down the real economy and certainly not competent issues of real warfare. you get all of our broker operational planning when your basic or whole career span, or what our 30. yes, you know,

why them base read back or music or is all, all together, some kind of insurgency in the samples where they walk and they know how to deal with something which american music or for example, in college are since actually since korea. and he will dam carriers and find out, you know, i know that i had to jump in here. gentlemen, we're going to go to which are breaking out to lunch break. we'll continue our discussion on flipping the scripts thing. ah ah ah

ah mm ah, nice to come to russian state. it will never be outside. unfortunately, no. santini, devastation knocking holes. awesome. i mean he could benefit. he battled the speed. okay, so mine is good. i'm speaking with. we will ban in the european union. the kremlin, yup. machines. the state aunt, rush up to date and split our t spoke neck. even our video agency,

roughly all band to on youtube with mm ah, welcome back to cross like were all things are considered? i'm peter labelle. drum and you were discussing, flipping the script. ah, let's go back to tom in north florida. tom is one of the things i find a disturbing. i mean, after the, the, uh, the garage of a, of the last couple of days biden was on the phone with zalinski no surprise. um, and, you know, a continuing promising support in every way,

shape or form. is that an issue of moral hazard? i mean, there's a lensky gang has every reason to keep this going on as long as possible. okay. not for the sake of the ukrainian people or whatever will at be and become a ukraine, but for their own personal gains and goals. i mean, if you got the swift number as seen when they send the money, i mean, that is something, you know, that's a once in a lifetime gig and how many people would walk away from it. considering that the zalinski government is shown up a patently very little interest in the lives of their own soldiers in the field. go ahead tom i i, i would, would. yeah, that is a very important i think the, there's a, there's a bigger thing here than that. and that is that, that the, the by the ministration is to it is, is, is, is continuing this because that has been policy. this book, this binders been on the shelf to turn ukraine into a war zone to bleed the russians white. and this has been up on the shelf at rand corporation or where for 20 years 30 years. i mean,

this has been in the are conservatives, drain a suit it to get this. it's a, you are never. and if you will get all by disastrous fury into this like this here to council there all the, the classic, you know, hawks of you, the hawkish of the hawks. so this isn't gonna end until they finally get the message that it's either you go nuclear, you go home and i want it and i and as far zalinski is concerned, you know, he was placed in this position to do exactly that by other people. and in a no different than our civil bond, or i know different joe biden or anybody else. so, you know, the, the worst part about this is that the people who are doing this, it's all puppet shop in and, and where all the ones caught in the crossfire, especially the ukranian people, which for them finally this war became really real yesterday. and it's unfortunate jeremy, one of the things i think that people miss all the pundits tree and whatnot is that

the, it will be over. this will be over number one, when the russians decide it's over. and number 2 in the russians have decided that better security interest been met. so we have to go all the way back to december 17th, which is a, from the history for both people on cable and in the broad sheets. but it was laid out very clearly what russia expected and, and then we had the, the, the, the, the pace of the operation. because this has been going on for 8 years now, not just 8 months. and russia will say, because they don't, nobody in the west wants to negotiate. ok, they made that decision, burrell made that decision. and so when russia will say, well, we're done because we have our security interests have been met. nobody in the west seems to be thinking in those terms. go ahead, jeremy. i think tom, but clearly that the neo conservatives want to bleed the russians. and they have this dream that they've been dreaming up for a long time. so they want this to go on indefinitely and they're going to continue

arming the ukrainians. and they'll, even if it's over, they're going to carry out low intensity warfare of some kind and continued to try and probably, you know, attack or. busy sabotaged eastern ukraine or even territories, even if they're incorporated into russia. i mean, we see what they're doing crimea and the one bridge. so i don't, you know, this could gone for a long, long time, given those interests. tom pointed to yeah, but i mean on that i like think about what jeremy just said there. i mean, they're just certain a certain number of ukrainians. ok. there's a certain number amount of infrastructure. i mean, if they want to continue this on, i suppose you know, the actual have to respond to it, but i mean, this is diminishing returns, ok, diminished. and at one point, and if the west, the collective west wants to continue doing this, they also will be considered an official co belligerent. and that's when we go down the, the path of, of a true destruction for everyone involved. go ahead,

andre. well, when you have to also give their cognizant of the fact that while your phones are very hawkish and basically what i, why it is, there are many stations of bias nutrition that results for me that for us you do not forget that a lot of things which russia is doing right now, they're very much of dined tool for the need trumps or is already strong car and so to speak in the u. s. policy would, for example, republicans, many of them i'm talking about the right us with such needs are grandma, you know, on cotton by many people don't want to do this anymore. so if we are cause why in all of themselves, they cannot build this, they need to have the access to the lee of ours of power. but the wiring is united states as long as strong air combined west is not strongly agree on for

a new day. it is miller parity and trophy. is there stream, or there was actually despite money as a ha, pointing this out actually was diminish, not increasing because united states simply has nothing more to deal, so to speak. and it will continue. yes. is diminishing return and in day and it's opera will decide when a condition a she wants to be an issue. and i'm going to need a statement of 3 days are long about unconditional for generation willow walks, definitely claims, honor, you know, tom, it meant we are. and we heard the andre mentioned the mid terms here. i mean, it seems to me such a no brainer. i mean, this is biden's war because it's, it was something that, you know, the obama people started. and obama, people a bite and people have continued. this is a no brainer to say, this is biden's war. it's very,

very expensive. we're getting negative returns here. but the, the, it still remains very bipartisan on an elite level, but if he further you go down most, you know, j d van to saying, you know, i don't care about ukraine. i lot of people feel that way in the united states. a lot of people feel that way. ok, i mean if, if a conservatives, because i hate the g o p. but if conservatives, i want to make a statement and say this is not our wor, it's a we has nothing to do with us. we don't gain anything, we only lose thing and it's the arms dealers to do best. what's wrong with that? because that's a strategy. go ahead tom. it's some, it's, it's part of the strategy. at this point the, the democrats are on auto pilot. they understand that they're there, they're acting like a party that they know they're going to lose. the midterm is desperately. if you want my, my scariest prediction, it's that they're now really feeling the heat of all their mistakes while since by this taken office. and again, it goes back to the point i made earlier that someone desperately wants this war escalated in order to upset in order to change fundamentally the entire applecart

of the, the west. and i'm, and what i mean by that is we're headed towards a financial crisis where also at the same time, they need a war to cover their insolvency and their political losses. good point. and so the russians won't give it to the russians. keep responding for, in effect, proportionally by not expanding this war in any way be on their borders and continued to wait. and so if it and causing that, the crazies, i think in for a and m i 62, and to continue to intensify the number, the, the, the, the, the punches in the mouth that they're willing to give the russians in order to try and force put in to do something he doesn't want to do. it is very patiently saying, no, we're just not going to give you the where you want. and he's, i think, holding off until after the midterm elections because it would be, it would be dumb for him to do that. given what's going to have given the, the political situation. you can read the polls in the united states,

that there is no consensus for war with ukraine, but if he gives us a reason for it, right, a has a spell on then the, the whole game board changes as clearly. that's the strategy right now by the ministration, whitehall, brussels, and everybody in jeremy. it's so short sighted because andres already pointed out our program is that i see a real breach, a breach that will not be mended with russia in europe. it's is over that the peter, the great dream of working with europe is finally the 300 year journey is finally come to an end because it's just one big headache. okay. you sign agreements, you don't honor them. you know, men, yes, we agree and all of this, you know, we want the pipeline north stream and then, you know, one of your friends blows it up. ok. what these people are, a pain in the neck. ok. and without cheap, wretched energy, their productivity is worthless. why do you want to deal with these people, jeremy? go ahead. i mean, i think we're seeing a major power shift gets in earlier point about this kind of back for further on

the worse, because yeah, russia is 40, very strong. busy block with east which china and a lot of countries are joining around is now involved with this lions. they're making economic deals. and you know, china, one belt, one road initiative is really helped a lot of countries. so we're seeing in the east is growing much stronger and this is kind of the nightmare of the neo conservatives in any ways. busy the senior china allies with russia is becoming a very strong alliance and the power really is shifting in their direction because of the. busy follies of us and western policies over generations now and self destructive nature of those all is so i think the world is starting to look a lot different. yeah, it's absolutely folly andre, you know, the way western media and pundents always like to describe the rushes isolated and

it has no friends. and, you know, it's really interesting on the rest of the world sees this. they see the following . russia is taking on entire collective west and it's not losing. and it, it is most likely, very likely, i'm sure it will when russia took on the entire collector, but the entire post colonial powers. and you know what, this, the global south is in all, and the chinese are watching very, very carefully. all right, you are all in my, for a few years. the goal, and i'm writing their small subset of boxing, 14 and early in talking to june, i wrote that united states getting in the wall in your brain, or the war is sustained. the defeat don't reduce the downwash, that's what will be the shape or the barber, right? no worries. you can see that there's so much greed that it's difficult to explain or elaborate for several hours on that. but it is clear there. yes,

world all this or specter power and russia been great. the power and result. that's what people see, including both one. this will gold gold pictures all the high level of why they're old russia. and that's their civil most people except alex, it's all their visuals. and they can see and what they interesting is the wesley. well, once they export welcome, but russia gives an example of a of power and resolute determination. all right, gentlemen, that's all the time we have wanted to get. thank my guests in north florida, tulsa, and in washington state. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, cross talk with

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