peter lavelle, my what a few days in some missiles can make rushes retaliation to be attacked on the crimea. bridge was focused and deadly will kill in its western handlers. now think twice before engaging in mor sabotaged and terrorist assaults. the choice is there's the cross talking, flipping the script. i'm joined by my guess tom. the one go in north florida. he is publisher of the gold goats in guns blog and newsletter in tulsa. we have jeremy cars, mater of he is managing, editor of covert action magazine and in washington state we cross to under a month the on the he is a writer as well as a military and political analyst. all right, cross rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. okay, want to start with andre in washington state. andre, can you, can you clear up a misunderstanding? i keep hearing about them. i thought the russia had no more ammunition, didn't have any missiles. they were relying upon china to,

to re replenish stocks and they need a rainy and drones and then all of a sudden yesterday, and today happen. can you explain this to me on the way for us. it's matter to you because they need to from all this matter to washing backwards, you know, bringing people who are going to be destroyed because of their lack of mcdonalds and i falls in several state and it's in my books, it's everywhere. i write about this for years now is the fact that they don't study the country as our state to be military in economically what have, what are the aspects of that state? are they simply don't know? those who know goes on all day long. have you put that just why we have one big kind of informational bible on bar

that's what it is. i mean, no matter how you tried to reason those people can agree with that. yeah. understand. yeah, they got to tom tom because this is a big surprise. you know, they, you know, we always have to point out in this program is that when you have a bad narrative, you get bad results. ok, and this is a result of this, this narrative. the interesting question is going to be is, what will care with the backing of the u. s. continue with the sabotage events like the north stream, like the cried me in bridge because you now they know what the reaction of the russians is going to be the question i want to ask all of you before the program is up. why didn't this happen or after february 24th, but maybe that's a moot point. tom, go ahead. well, when i say peters that they've opened up a can of worms that they are, that now is, is very dangerous right now. civilian infrastructure in international waters is

open is fair game they've gotten, i think they, i'll be honest with you. i think the u. s. i think it's more the brits and the polls than it is the u. s. is probably a mixture of all of them with the u. s. having plausible deniability or at least factions within the u. s. having fossil deniability, we're behind all this stuff. and like to me, it's very clear that they want the war. they want to an a wider war, but they're not sure on what terms they want that wider war. they just want to be able to get to eat and the russians to overreact to whatever provocation, you know, they keep punching the rushes in the face, and they keep hoping that the russians as they are i us enough. and we're just an interview which then gives us the though the west gives them the moral high ground to say ok. now assigned to take a rush. well, it by tom that, that, that works under the assumption that, you know, i've been playing with this. who's got the time and he's got the clocks. oh and, and, and again, they keep showing that the russians have both jeremy, i mean, it's really quite remarkable. yeah. okay. maybe the brits and maybe the poles. of

course the americans know about it. but isn't it kind of pathetic when you think about it? is it okay? let's do another sabotage event, but it's not the u. k. that sabotage. it's not poland, it's appetite. it's not the you, it's ukraine. i mean with these kind of friends, ukraine is good to run out of people and land. very, very quickly. jeremy jump in. well, yeah, i think ultimately grained and buying their own destruction. and you know, they, you know, they have carried out massive atrocities and terrorist activities. car bombings within russia. busy i think us intelligence admitted that ukraine was behind us. somehow they're able to sustain some kind of moral high ground. that's one thing that i like to see people waving ukrainian flags and have the cranium flag in their house when it's a. busy government that was voted one of the most corrupt in europe is not the world that carries a brazen terrorist activities. and that basically, sol,

that's interest as a country to these foreign powers who have a very pernicious agenda playing a very dangerous game as the other 2 guess, pointed out. yeah, because it has nothing to do with ukraine. it all has to do about somehow degrading rushes, power, humiliating, and miss. we have seen this playbook for 30 years since the end of the cold war is the special military operation in play is a special military operation. plus, i mean it's very clear to me because we have the partial mobilization how and then we had these barrage of attacks over the course of 2 days. it's the same military strategy and play. go ahead. yeah. oh, absolutely, absolutely. don't forget that the planning goes nor jobs online. you have to develop the decision. was the last little reparations and, or if your forwarded or object area or the combined and especially united states or got that will be more and more ration. cedar and the russians have to basically

dial $211.00 and after talk with the partial mobile is ation. and basically as you do, the job strapped a job which got on for the last 48 hours and it will continue. so once you have your name from a nation, it's relatively easy if you look at it from the point of view of the nation. all the state, all base are going to come back to our appreciation to meet your political apes. and political games of russia per day is basically all united states are from there, you're asian, go country now, hong mass. a full year, all you do is place. and it's working just miracles. so what, so it's not just the new address bar where people are get a larger political issue. and this is actually the issue that when they're,

if they're all bodies and will be defeated, which is happening as we speak. or i should walk around, you know, walk, so it's not for backlash or has enough and still very regular, severe. you know, it, tom i, when the special military operation was announced that the, the 2 goals were denied vacation. demilitarization. i think as a result of the last couple of days, we couldn't throw in di electric, causation as well. i mean, basically turning out the lights, which of it showed to be quite easy to do at very low cost and low cost in lives as well. tom, yeah, and i, this is the further what andre was saying, i agree, and that this is an economic war as much as is a military war. and it's very clear that as it's political war as well. and i've been saying to be any of this that it's always was meant to be a, a war of attrition on both sides and that their shock and all on on both sides of the so we had little shocking off in the russians yesterday was with a massive missile attack,

we had shocking off in the americans and europeans with sanctions attacks back february, march. and now the question is, who's gonna, who's political will ask andrea, which pointed out who's political will at home, whose political support at home is going to run out 1st is, are going to be the west was, is going to be prudent. my bet is that it's going to be the west. i agree with that terry logical because jeremy mean um, this is not of any real strategic value to the united states, even to even to western europe. i mean, but it is russia's back yard or front porch whenever you want to put it. it is of great national importance that are defense and so that's why i think that they would have much longer resolved. and i think over the last 2 days we've seen that's the most important word that comes in my mind is resolved this thing. so this phase started on the 24th of february and it will be continued till completion, jeremy 1000000000. i think you also look at the economic situation in europe. i mean, the sabotage and stream pipeline adversely affects europe with these skyrocketing

gas prices and heating crisis, heading into the winter and tearing economic conditions. i think you're going to see, you know, potential. busy unrest in europe and already there, i think divisions, we see that in germany. gerhard schroeder, been strongly against a lot of the german policies, more toward cooperation with russia and against the war. so yeah, i think we're already seeing a break in europe. especially related to the tearing or turing economic situation. and it's really not in the interest of the public whether in europe or the united states. where is the russia's fighting a life or death struggle and has tangible security interest. busy so i think the public's yeah are going to wake up soon and have been so much deception and western governments about this conflict that just like iraq, i mean, we're just waiting for the bubble burst and more people to acknowledge the hollowness of deception. that's why you know, under,

if it's so curious who are watching politicians in europe react to all what's going on. i mean, we had a french energy official coming out and saying, the americans, we look at, they're charging us for, for liquid, for natural gas. you know where they're not talking about capping american energy, but, but only russian. and then you have german officials coming up. we're facing the industrialization, but they're all fill in lock step. like zombies with this policy, it's been saying, watching it. go ahead tom. i'm sorry andre andre. go ahead. go ahead. andre. well, it's pretty simple. that's what many people do span. russia has written europe off. europe is locked in. you more important for sure. you and complete a new and it's actually speaking off to base as we'll see. it so in this particular case, if you are once a meeting as we speak,

so, so be it. and again, as i read you stayed, are people who were planning based. and as usual game is called a real economy and certainly not competent issues of real warfare, you'll get all of our, all of our operational planning when your basic or whole career and or what 30. yes, you apply them back or you that are is all, all together, some guy, the insurgency, the samples where they walk and they know how to deal with something which america look at, for example, in college, are since actually since korea. and he will dam carriers and i know, you know, i know that i had to jump in here. gentlemen, we're going to go to what you are breaking up and i shall break. we'll continue our discussion on flipping the scripts thing. ah,

ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot baby orders given it by human beings except with such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at that point, obviously is to place trust, rather than fear a with artificial intelligence. real. somebody with obama protective phone existence, with, ah ah,

[000:00:00;00] with lou needs to come to the russian state total narrative. i've stayed as i'm phone and ignore santini, devastation, american house house on meek,

within the 55. would this be the keys on that is to fargo speaking when else was about this, even though we will ban in the european union the kremlin? yup. machine. the state on russia today and split our t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube and pinterest. and with request with this welcome across. like were all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. to remind you we're discussing, flipping the script with

let's go back to tom in north florida. come in, one of the things i find very disturbing. i mean, after the, the, uh, the barrage of a of the last couple of days biden was on the phone with zalinski no surprise. um, and you know, a continuing promising support in every way, shape or form. is that an issue of moral hazard? i mean, there's a lensky gang has every reason to keep this going on as long as possible. okay. not for the sake of the ukrainian people or whatever will at be and become a ukraine, but for their own personal gains and goals. i mean, if you got the swift numbers, you know, when they send the money, i mean, that is something, you know, that's a once in a lifetime gig, how many people would walk away from it? considering that the zelinski government has shown up a patently, very little interest in the lives of their own soldiers in the field. go ahead tom i i, i would, would. yeah, that is a very important i think the, this is, there's

a bigger thing here than that. and that is that, that the, the, by the ministration is to, is, is, is, is continuing this because that has been policy this, but this binders been on the shelf to turn ukraine into a war zone to bleed the russians white. and this has been up on the shelf at rand corporation, or where for true 20 or 30 years. i mean, this has been in the are conservatives, drain a suit it to get this. it's a, you are never. and if you will get all by disastrous purity into this like this, her to council there all the, the classic, you know, hawks of you, the hawkish of the hawks. so this isn't going to end until they finally get the message that it's either you go nuclear, you go home and i went in and i and as far zalinski concerned, you know, he was placed in this position to do exactly that by other people. and, you know, no different than our civil bond, or i know different the joe biden or anybody else. so, you know, the, the worst part about this is that the people who are doing this,

it's all puppet shop in and where all the ones hot crossfire, especially the ukranian people, which for them. finally this war became really real dust. and it's unfortunate a j at jeremy, one of the things i think that people miss all the pundits tree and whatnot is that the, it'll be over. this will be over number one, when the russians decide it's over. and number 2 and the russians have decided that their security interests have been met. say we have to go all the way back to december 17th, which is ancient history for most people on cable and in the broad sheets. but it was laid out very clearly what russia expected and in, and then we had the, the, the, the, the pay to the operation. because this has been going on for 8 years now, not just 8 months. and russia will say, because they don't, nobody in the west wants to negotiate. ok, they made that decision, burrell made that decision. and so when russia will say, well, we're done because we have our security interests have been met. nobody in the west

seems to be thinking in those terms. go ahead, jeremy. well, yeah, i think tom, but clearly that the neoconservatives want to bleed the russians. and they have this dream that they've been dreaming up for a long time. so they want this to go on indefinitely and they're going to continue arming the ukrainians. and they'll, even if it's over, they're going to carry out low intensity warfare of some kind and continued to try and probably, you know, attack or. busy sabotaged eastern ukraine or even territories, even if they're incorporate into russia, i mean, we see what they're doing crimea and the one bridge. so i don't know this could gone for, for a long, long time, given those interests. tom pointed to. yeah, but i mean, andre, reflecting about what jeremy just said they're, i mean, they're just certain a certain number of ukrainians. ok. there's a certain number amount of infrastructure. i mean, if they want to continue this on, i suppose, you know,

the rush will have to respond to it, but i mean that this is diminishing returns, ok, diminished. and at one point, and if the west, the collective west wants to continue doing this, they also will be considered an official co belligerent. and that's when we go down the path of, of a true destruction for everyone involved. go ahead, andre. well, when you have to also give their cognizant skill the fact that while your phones are very hawkish and basically what i, what it is, there are many stations of bias nutrition that results for me that for us you do not forget that a lot of things which russia is doing right now, they're very much of dined tool for the need trumps or is already strong car and so to speak in the u. s. policy with for example, republicans, many of them i'm not talking about the right size such needs are grandma, you know,

cotton by many people don't want to do this anymore. so if we are cause why in all of themselves, they cannot build this. they need to have the access to the of ours of power, but on the warranty, if united states, as long as strong air combined west is more strongly agree on for a new day, it is miller charity. and truth is the stream on the web was actually despite money, as a ha, pointing this out actually was diminish, not increasing, because united states simply has nothing more to deal, so to speak. and it will continue. yes is diminishing return and in day and it's opera will decide when a condition a she wants to be an issue. and i'm going to make a statement of 3 days are long about unconditional. good generation willow walks,

definitely the claims honor time. it meant we her and we heard the andre mentioned the mid terms here. i mean, it seems to me such a no brainer. i mean, this is biden's war because it's, it was something that, you know, the obama people started. and obama, people a bite and people have continued. this is a no brainer to say, this is biden's war. it's very, very expensive. we're getting negative returns here. but the, the, it still remains very bipartisan on an elite level. but if you further you go down most, you know, j d van to saying, you know, i don't care about ukraine. a lot of people feel that way in the united states. a lot of people feel that way. ok, i mean if, if the conservatives, because i hate the g o p. but if conservatives, i want to make a statement and say this is not our wor, it's a we has nothing to do with us. we don't gain anything, we only lose thing and it's the arms dealers to do best. what's wrong with that? because that's a strategy. go ahead tom. it's some, it's, it's part of the friday. at this point the, the democrats are on auto pilot. they understand that they're, they're, they're acting like a party that they know they're going to lose. the midterm is desperately,

if you want my, my scariest prediction, it's that they're now really feeling the heat of all their mistakes while since, by this taken office. and again, it goes back to the point i made earlier that someone desperately wants this war escalated in order to upset in order to change fundamentally the entire applecart of the, the west. and i'm, and what i mean by that is we're headed towards a financial crisis where also at the same time, they need a war to cover their insolvency and their political losses. good point. and so the russians won't give it to the russians. keep responding for, in effect, proportionally by not expanding this war in any way be on their borders and continuing to wait and to a fit and causing that, the crazies, i think in for a and m, i 62, and to continue to intensify the number, the the, the, the, the punches in the mouth that they're willing to give the russians in order to try

and force put in to do something he doesn't want to do. it is very patiently saying, no, we're just not going to give you the where you want. and he's, i think, holding off until after the midterm elections because it would be, it would be dumb for him to do that. given what's going to have given the, the political situation. you can read the polls in the united states, that there is no consensus for war with the ukraine, but if he gives us a reason for it, right? a cause us bell. i then the, the whole game board changes. it's clearly that's the strategy right now by the ministration, whitehall, brussels, and everybody in jeremy. it's so short sighted because andres already pointed out our program is that i see a real breach, a breach that will not be mended with russia in europe. it's is over that the peter, the great dream of working with europe is finally the 300 year journey is finally come to an end because it's just one big headache. okay. you sign agreements, you don't honor them. you know, men, yes, we agree and all of this, you know,

we want the pipeline north stream and then, you know, one of your friends blows it up. ok. what these people are, a pain in the neck. ok. and without cheap, wretched energy, their productivity is worthless. why do you want to deal with these people, jeremy? go ahead. i mean, i think we're seeing a major power shift gets in earlier point about this kind of back for further on the worse, because yeah, russia is 40, very strong. busy block with east with china and a lot of countries are joining around. there's now involved with this lions, they're making economic deals and you know, china, one belt one road initiative is really help uplift. busy countries so we're seeing in the east is growing much stronger and this is kind of the nightmare of the neo conservatives in any ways. busy the senior china allies with the russians becoming a very strong alliance and the power really is shifting in their directions because

of the. busy follies of us and western policies over generations now and self destructive nature of those all is so i think the world is starting to look a lot different. yeah, it's absolutely folly andre, you know, the way western media and pundents always like to describe the rushes isolated and it has no friends. and, you know, it's really interesting on the rest of the world sees this. they see the following . russia is taking on the entire collective west and it's not losing. and it, it is most likely, very likely, i'm sure it will when russia took on the entire collector, but the entire post colonial powers. and you know what, this, the global south is in all and the chinese are watching very, very carefully. oh area oregon. my 1st book few years ago. and i'm running this last stop since 2014. and our early 2015 are old united states getting in the wall in your brain

a lost the war. now it's standard defeat. dollar d like will predict then was that what will be the shape or distant feedback right now already you can see that and there's so much read that it's difficult to explain or elaborate for several hours on that. but it is clear that, yes, world, all this respected power and russia demonstrates the power in brazil. and that's what people see, including those wonderful gold gold. are pictures of the high level difference you're flying in from there. we'll hold kate russia and that's very simple. most people except for alex to throw their visuals and they can see it. and what they interesting is the wesley. well, once the export woke as em, but russia gives an example of a of power and rest and resolute determination. i gentlemen, that's all the time we have wanted to thank my guests in north florida, tulsa,

and in washington state. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, cross talk with mom when i was shooting wrong. when i'll please, just don't hold me you world. yes, to feed out disdain becomes the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah,

and i had to visit with somebody, do i need them both? good. i did miss steward with key at the washington state. the process is to the dealer. molly completed the claims to not letting me it was put in a row, spoke with you of the plexi professional lithium, the level of civil, but yet with ah, [000:00:00;00]

with ah, with business, and you will clean with our shoes. and yeah, americans gray you, when you wrote it, you can just go to it. it's just such an article and i'll certainly provide you with stuff such and sure. it was nice talking to different student info with you throw in the with them the problem that you're still there with your, with to watch. so it was a community off on all thought it which, which no longer interested in the position that people push to to stream loan because or lose know, your portal or do school coast. i don't know who you're going to know for the don't

or is that just to do with ease for us to play. and you can also come all both with any spaniel, but we will not supply energy resources to those countries in the field on a price cap. that is the stock warning from vladimir putin, as he blames western politicians for effectively destroying the global energy market. he was speaking of the russia energy week for i'm, it's ongoing right now here in moscow. also speaking at the for him at the head of the russian. and if you join the gas problem, claiming that germany's on the ground gas storage supplies will only be enough to