the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, my what a few days in some missiles can make rushes retaliation to be attacked on the crimea. bridge was focused and deadly will kill its western handlers. now think twice before engaging in more sabotaged and terrorist assaults. the choice is there's the cross talking, flipping the script. i'm joined by my guess tom. the one go in north florida. he is publisher of the gold goats in guns blog, and newsletter and tulsa. we have jeremy cars, mater of he is managing, editor of covert action magazine and in washington state we cross to andre month the on the, he is a writer as well as a military and political analyst. all right, cross type rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. okay, want to start with andre in washington, said, andre, can you, can you clear up a misunderstanding?

i keep hearing about them. i thought the russia had no more ammunition, didn't have any missiles. they were relying upon china to, to re replenish stocks and they need a rainy and drones and then all of a sudden yesterday, and today happen. can you explain this to me on the way for us? it's marriage you because they need to from all this marriage, you wash and back work, you know, bringing people who are going to be destroyed because of their lack of mcdonalds and i falls in several stages and it's in my books, it's everywhere i write about this for years now, is the fact that they don't started to country as our state to be military in economically what have whatever the aspect of their state are. they simply don't know those who know goals on all day long. have you put

that just why we want exist? some kind of the informational bible on bar and that's what it is. i mean, no matter how you try to reason with those people, we can agree with that there. yeah. understand. yeah, they got to tom tom because this is a big surprise. you know, they, you know, we always have to point out in this program is that when you have a bad narrative, you get bad results. ok, and this is result of this narrative. the interesting question is going to be is what will care with the backing of the us continue with the sabotaged events like the nord stream, like the cried me in bridge because you now they know what the reaction of the russians is going to be the question i want to ask all of you before the program is over. why didn't this happen or after february 24th, but maybe that's a moot point. tom, go ahead. well, when i say peters that they've opened up

a can of worms, that they are, that now is, is very dangerous right now. civilian infrastructure in international waters is open is fair game they've gotten, i think they, i'll be honest with you. i think the u. s. i think it's more the brits in the polls than it is. the u. s. is probably a mixture of all of them with the u. s. having plausible deniability or at least factions within the u. s. having plausible deniability where we're behind all this stuff and like to me it's very clear that they want the war. they want to an a wider war, but they're not sure on what terms they want that wider war. they just want to be able to get to eat and the russians to overreact to whatever provocation, you know, they keep punching the rushes in the face, and they keep hoping that the russians as they are i us enough. and we're just an interview which then gives us the though the west gives them the moral high ground to say ok. now assigned to take a rush. well, it by tom that, that, that works under the assumption that, you know, i've been playing with this. who's got the time and he's got the clocks. oh and, and again, they keep showing that the russians have both jeremy, i mean,

it's really quite remarkable. yeah. okay. maybe the brit and maybe the poles. of course the americans know about it. but isn't it kind of pathetic when you think about it? is it ok, let's do another sabotage event, but it's not the u. k. that sabotage. it's not poland, it's appetite. it's not the you, it's ukraine. i mean with these kind of friends, ukraine is good to run out of people and land. very, very quickly. jeremy jump in. well, yeah, i think ultimately grained and buying their own destruction. and you know, they, you know, they have carried out massive atrocities and terrorist activities. car bombings within russia. busy that i think us intelligence admitted that ukraine was behind us. somehow they're able to sustain some kind of moral high ground. that's one thing that i like to see people waving ukrainian flags and have the cranium flag in their house when it's a. busy government that was voted one of the most corrupt in europe is not the

world that carries a brazen terrorist activities. and that basically, sol, that's interest as a country to these foreign powers who have a very pernicious agenda playing a very dangerous game as the other 2 guess, pointed out, because it has nothing to do with ukraine. it all has to do about somehow degrading russia's power, humiliating and miss. we have seen this playbook for 30 years since the end of the cold war under it is the special military operation in play. is it special military operation? plus, i mean it's very clear to me because we have the partial mobilization how and then we had these barrage of attacks over the course of 2 days. it's the same military strategy and play. go ahead. yeah, absolutely, absolutely. don't forget that the planning goes no jobs online. you have to develop the decision 311 little reparations and,

or if your forwarded or directory of the combine. yeah. and especially united states or got that will be more and more apparation for cedar. and the russians have to basically dial $211.00 and after it's all, partial mobile is ation. and basically as you do, the job strapped a job which got on for the last 48 hours and it will continue. so once you get your name from solutions, i'm a nation, it's relatively easy if you look at it from the point of view of the nation, all this bay door based on back to means your political political game over off of the day is basically all you know these bids from, from your region, the country now, mass europe, if those ways it's working just euro sole box. so it's not just new address bar where people get the larger your political issue and this is actually easier

goodwill there. you have to go while he is and will be defeated, which is scaffolding as being all rational couple sir, i'm, you know, but so it's nothing that russia has enough views and still basic, regular, severe, you know, it's like when the special military operation was announced, the the 2 goals were denot vacation in the mid demilitarization, i think as a result of the last couple of days we couldn't throw in di electric as ation as well. i mean, basically turning out the lights, which it showed to be quite easy to do at very low cost and low cost in lives as well. tom. yeah, and i, this is the further what andre was saying, i agree. and that this is an economic or as much as is a military war, and it's very clear that as it's political war as well. and i've been saying to be any of this that it's always was meant to be a, a war of attrition on both sides. and that their shock and awe on,

on both sides of the so we had little shocking off in the russians yesterday with a massive missile attack. we had shocking off in the americans and europeans with sanctions attacks back february, march. and now the question is, who's gonna, who's political will ask andrea, which pointed out who's political will at home, whose photo um support at home is going to run out 1st is are going to be the west source is going to be prudent. my bet is that it's going to be the west clo, i agree with that very logical because jeremy mean, um, this is not of any real strategic value to the united states, even to even to western europe. i mean, but it is russia's back yard or front porch, whatever you want to put it, it is of great national importance that are defense. and so that's why i think that they would have much longer resolve. and i think over the last 2 days we've seen that's the most important word that comes to my mind to resolve this thing. so this phase started on the 24th of february and it will be continued till completion. jeremy, really,

and i think you also look at the economic situation in europe. i mean, the sabotage and stream pipeline adversely affects europe with the skyrocketing gas prices and heating crisis, heading into the winter and tearing economic conditions. i think you're going to see, you know, potential. busy unrest in europe and already there, i think divisions, you know, we see that in germany. gerhard schroeder, been strongly against a lot of the german policies, more toward cooperation with russia against the war. so i think we're already seeing a break in europe. especially related to tearing or turing economic situation. and it's really not in the interest of the public whether in europe or the united states. whereas the rushes fighting a life or death struggle and has tangible security interest. busy so i think the publics are going to wake up soon and have been so much deception and western governments about this conflict that just like iraq, i mean, we're just waiting for the bubble burst and more people to acknowledge the hollow

of deception that way, you know, andre, it's, it's so curious who are watching politicians in europe react to all what's going on . i mean, we had a french energy official coming out and saying the americans, we look at, they're charging us for, for liquid, for natural gas. you know where they're not talking about capping american energy, but, but only russian. and then you have german officials coming up. we're facing the industrialization, but they're all fill in lock step. like zombies with this policy, it's been saying, watching it. go ahead tom. i'm sorry, i'm sorry andre andre. go ahead. go ahead. andre. well, it's pretty simple. that's what many people understand. russia has written europe off. europe is locked in, you more important for sure. you and complete a torch. asia will continue and is actually speaking up to base as we'll see

it. so in this particular case, if europe wants to go commit suicide, which you are meeting as we speak so well, so be it. and again, as i read you stayed, are people who were planning. and as usual game is called later because down on a real economy and certainly not competent issues of real war, you'll get all of our, all of our operational planning when your basic or whole career and what our 30 years you. why them back or you that are, is all, all together, some guy, the insurgency, the samples with a saudi war. and they have to deal with something which american military, for example, in college are since actually, since korea. and he will dam carriers. and i know, you know, i know that i had to jump in here gentlemen, we're going to go to which are breaking up and i shall break. we'll continue our discussion on flipping the script state.

ah ah ah, through with you thrown luis flores, i'm stuck with sprung from dijani's from them to know when to do it. in b, c differing, you could keep doing leticia kills on the edge here on the ship or was to live it. i'm done with a little bolcom in the crucial chest middle school senior sweetie. mooney snow, but did you need to know what you good? he's with the leukemia. well, they do deal with. i'm sure we can you video to fix that will be a gross issue. the missed piece, they need to the middle,

set them off and you can give us his net that did. he thought he is supposed to work on this. don't see this material. but in this phone, even in the survey, you need to look at those slide, elvis, you still open it, it doesn't help with me. she go, she returned with a note up there normally squad. so to do, most of them will shuttle specially chosen with lisa. there's openings and you took a you with a doubles are going to pull to watch dr. richards. but that's all i hope, i hope with a,

with a ford interested also issue somebody over there, both of those with poverty over you. look, are you up for you was up with a, with an idea raising that way,

you know. don't mind. ah, so welcome to cross like where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle dramatically. we're discussing flipping the script. ah, let's go back to tom in north florida. tom, one of the things i find very disturbing, i mean, after the, the a, the, the barrage of a of the last couple of days biden was on the phone with zalinski no surprise. and, you know, a continuing promising support in every way, shape or form. is that an issue of moral hazard? i mean, there's a lensky gang has every reason to keep this going on as long as possible. ok,

not for the sake of the ukrainian people or whatever will at be and become a ukraine, but for their own personal gains and goals. i mean, if you got the swift numbers, you know, when they send the money, i mean, that is something, you know, that's a once in a lifetime gig and how many people would walk away from it. considering that the zalinski government is shown up a patently very little interest in the lives of their own soldiers in the field. go ahead tom. i yeah, i would, i would. yeah, that is a very important. i think the, there's a, there's a bigger thing here than that. and that is that, that the, the, by the ministration is to, is, is continuing this because that has been policy this, but this binders been on the shelf to turn ukraine into a war zone to bleed the russians white. this has been up on the shelf at rand corporation were for true 20 years 30 years. i mean, this has been in the are conservatives, drain a suit it to get this. you are never. and if you will get all by disastrous fury

into this like this here to council there all the, the classic, you know, hawks, the hawkers of the hawks. so this isn't gonna end until they finally get the message that it's either you go nuclear, you go home and i want it and i've, and as far zalinski is concerned, you know, he was placed in this position to do exactly that by other people. and you know, no different than our civil bond, or i know different joe biden or anybody else. so, you know, the, the worst part about this is that the people who are doing this, it's all puppet shop. and, and we're all the ones calling crossfire, especially the ukranian people, which the for them. finally, this war became really real. and it's unfortunate jeremy, one of the things i think people miss all the pond in tree and what not, is that the, it'll be over this will be over number one, when the russians decide it's over. and number 2 and the russians have decided that

their security interests have been met. say we have to go all the way back to december 17th, which is ancient history for most people on cable and in the broad sheets. but it was laid out very clearly what russia expected and in, and then we had the, the, the, the, the phase of the operation. because this has been going on for 8 years now, not just our 8 months. and russia will say, because they don't, nobody in the west wants to negotiate. ok, they made that decision, burrell made that decision. and so when russia will say, well, we're done because we have our security interests have been met. nobody in the west seems to be thinking in those terms. go ahead, jeremy. well, yeah, i think tom, but clearly that the neoconservatives want to bleed the russians. and they have this dream that they've been dreaming up for a long time. so they want this to go on indefinitely and they're going to continue arming the ukrainians. and they'll, even if it's over, they're going to carry out low intensity warfare of some kind and continued to try

and probably, you know, attack or. busy sabotaged eastern ukraine or even territories, even if they're incorporate into russia, i mean, we see what they're doing crimea and the one bridge. so i don't know this could gone for a long, long time, given those interests. tom pointed to. yeah, but i mean, andre, reflecting about what jeremy just said there. i mean, they're just certain a certain number of ukrainians. ok. there's a certain number amount of infrastructure. i mean, if they want to continue this on, i suppose you know, the actual have to respond to it, but i mean, this is diminishing returns, ok, diminished. and at one point, and if the west, the collective west wants to continue doing this, they also will be considered an official co belligerent. and that's when we go down the, the path of, of a true destruction for everyone involved. go ahead, andre. well, when you have to also give their cognizant still the fact that while you are on

very hawkish and basically what i want, it is their administration of badness, nutrition that results for me, that 1st you do not forget that a lot of things which russia is doing right now, they're very much of dined tool for the need trumps or is already strong car and so to speak in the u. s. policy would, for example, republicans, many of them i'm talking about the right us with such needs are grandma, you know, cotton by many people don't want to do this anymore. so if we are cause why in all of themselves, they cannot build this. they need to have the access to the of ours of power, but the wine is united states as well as strong air combined west is more strongly agree on for a new day. it is miller parity and trophy. is there stream over there was actually

despite money as a ha boynton this out actually was diminish, not increasing because united states simply has nothing more to deal, so to speak. and it will continue. yes. is diminishing return and in day and it's bratia will decide when a condition she wants to finish it. and a statement of 3 days are long about unconditional for generation willow walks, definitely the claims honor and tom, it meant we are. and we heard the andre mentioned the mid terms here. i mean, it seems to me such a no brainer. i mean, this is biden's war because it's, it was something that, you know, the obama people started. and obama, people a bite and people have continued. this is a no brainer to say, this is biden's war. it's very, very expensive. we're getting negative returns here. but the, the, it still remains very bipartisan on an elite level. but if you further you go down

most, you know, j d back to saying, you know, i don't care about ukraine. i lot of people feel that way in the united states. a lot of people feel that way. ok, i mean, if it conservatives because i hate the g o p. but if conservatives, i want to make a statement here and say this is not our wor, it's a we has nothing to do with us. we don't gain anything, we only lose thing and it's the arms dealers to do best. what's wrong with that? because that's a strategy. go ahead tom. it's some, it's, it's part of the strategy. at this point the, the democrats are on auto pilot. they understand that they're, they're, they're acting like a party that they know they're going to lose the midterm as desperately. if you want my, my scariest prediction, it's that they're now really feeling the heat of all their mistakes while since, by this taken office. and again, it goes back to the point i made earlier that someone desperately wants this war escalated in order to upset in order to change fundamentally the entire applecart of the, the west. and i'm, and what i mean by that is we're headed towards

a financial crisis where also at the same time, they need a war to cover their insolvency and their political losses. good point. and so the russians won't give it to the russians. keep responding for, in effect, proportionally by not expanding this war in any way be on their borders and continued to wait. and if it and then and causing that, the crazies, i think in for a and m, i 62, and to continue to intensify the number, the, the, the, the, the punches in the mouth that they're willing to give the russians in order to try and force put in to do something he doesn't want to do. it is very patiently saying, no, we're just not going to give you the where he want. and he's i think, holding off until after the mid term elections because it would be, it would be dumb for him. to do that, given what's going to have given the, the political situation, you can read the polls in the united states that there is no consensus for war with ukraine. but if he gives us a reason for it, right, a has a spell on then the,

the whole gameboard changes. it's clearly that's the strategy right now by the ministration, whitehall, brussels, and everybody. jeremy, it's so short sighted because andres already pointed out our program is that i see a real breach a breach that will not be mended with russia in europe. it's is over. there's the peter, the great dream of working with europe is finally the 300 year journey is finally come to an end because it's just one big headache. okay. you sign agreements, you don't honor them. you know, men, yes, we agree. and all of this, you know, we want the pipeline north stream and then, you know, one of your friends blows it up, ok, what these people are paid in the neck. ok. and without cheap, wretched energy, their productivity is worthless. why do you want to deal with these people, jeremy? go ahead. i mean, i think we're seeing a major power shift gets in earlier point about this kind of back for further on the west, because yeah, russia is 40, very strong. busy block with east with china,

and a lot of countries are joining around is now involved with this lions. they're making economic deals. and you know, china, one belt, one road initiative has really helped a lot of countries. so we're seeing in the east is growing much stronger and this is kind of the nightmare of the neo conservatives in any ways. busy east and china lives with russia, it's becoming a very strong alliance. and the power really is shifting and their direction because of the. busy follies of us and western policies over generations now and self destructive nature of those all is so i think the world is starting to look a lot different. yeah, it's absolutely folly andre, you know, the way western media and pundents always like to describe. the rush is isolated and it has no friends. and, you know, it's really interesting on the rest of the world sees this, they see the following. russia is taking on entire collective west and it's not

losing. and it, it is most likely, very likely, i'm sure it will when russia took on the entire collector, but the entire post colonial powers. and you know what, this, the global south is in all, and the chinese are watching very, very carefully. well, are all in my 4th book few years ago. and i'm writing this last stop since 2014 and our early 2015 our old united states getting in the wall in your brain a lost the war. now it's standard defeat. dollar d like will predict that, was that what will be the shape of this to feed back right now already can see that . and there's so much read that it's difficult to explain or elaborate for several hours on that. but it is clear that, yes, world, all this respected power and russia demonstrates the power in brazil. and that's

what people see, including those wonderful gold on called are pictures of the high level. you're flying in from there. we'll hold kate russia and that's very simple. most people except for alex, it's all the visuals and they can see it. and what they had to saying is the wesley, while once they export welcome, but russia gives an example of a of power and raise and resolute determination. or a gentleman that's all the time we have on it and get thank my guests in north florida, tulsa, and in washington state. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time, remember cross tacos. ah ah ah,

when i would show seemed wrong when i was just a sheep out disdain becomes the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. i rhonda with with you with you. i am with

full credit. it's going to be out of wood from beach, gonna still be patient in the board with with

ah, your, your, your use you ah ah, real sensitive water use that argument september 2022 and now go down. the ukrainian military shells the city ceaselessly targeting this f r rogia a nuclear power plant resident.