ah, ah, hello in welcome to cross stock, were all things are considered on peter lavelle? what a pathetic creature of the west is created in chip ukrainian president regularly demands the wes, underwrite ukraine war effort, but also the country's economy. on top of this, nate to world announces a 10 year plan to rebuild ukraine's military again, oblivious to russia, security demands, ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist, and commentator. and in budapest we have george semi wiley. he's a podcast with the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals are

a gentleman, cross that rules, and that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. i. let's start out with george in budapest i, i, i'm sure you notice of the last few days that one of the most favorite activities of the ukrainian president is to go fundraising and in front of anyone that will listen to him. sounds like he has a few credit cards from western countries that he spends on a whim at times in whatever he wants to fund. this is getting into moral hazard. here. there's no accountability, where's the money going? and it ensures that this conflict will go on, which course that's well ukraine's backers want george. yes, that's it, right? a fundraising is a very good characterization of what he's engaged. and he's like the head of some, you know, foundation that the spent all of his time raising funds. and nobody really on the

vision as to where is this money going and to walk, walk and, and so this war which is going, going on forever and the are the funders don't as well how is this in our interest, in what way to spend our money that will actually, so our interests and so he is able to go, but they can relate to the united states, also limitless funds. americans happily do so. and they continue disaster and want to look at it. think about the state of the european economies. we just have the collapse, effectively, the collapse of, of the government in the united we're, we've already seen collapses throughout. we're with major governmental changes in france and italy or something in germany is pending. we're on the brink of an

absolute economic calamity, or i still don't have to give more to ukraine when it's crazy. clearly leading everybody to absolute catastrophe in a martin is the you keep hearing from western leaders as long as it takes. but i think that's the wrong refrain. it is much as it takes because i think it's beginning to sound like i'll be honest with both of you and our viewers. i've lost count of the billions of dollars that been problems every week. more and more money is being allotted or plan to procure or whatever. i've lost track the numbers, getting so big. so. so martin, i mean, it seems to me that you know it, it's fundraising that the fundraising is the end. i mean, i think that's what it is. the whole point is to raise funds. martin. it was asked to be live, how to be an entrance. i mean, something you said, you don't know how much it is. i think it's about $84000000.00. something like that so far. i don't think that can be repeated every, every few months. i mean,

i think it has to be a point where western economies actually start looking at their own situation or, and people learn crises. but also think of the question. who's really controlled in all this and i see off i think zalinski is nowhere near as powerful, influential or dynamic as we probably think he is he, he's got the media spoiler. that seems to be his job. you know, you do me. i don't believe that he's running the more i don't think something and it's due to i think that's really being controlled by nature chiefs locked away on cars somewhere. but i think the question of funding throws up another question, you know, which is, who's really controlling this global dynamic. you know, this, this idea of the western name. i was power, there was money and they're able to make change run well, who is really controlling it? we saw just recently, i wrote about it a few weeks ago about how russia and gcc country,

southern ravia emeralds are now you know, so forming a sort of condition that relationships are developing every single day. and they opec plus that's opec plus on countries like so. you have been met very recently and decided to co production know what was all about. that was really about sending a message to the american people and to biden, which is, we don't really want you around anymore. and we'd like to actually harm you as much as we can in the midst of elections, because we won't trump back. and we don't really agree with what you're doing with ukraine war told. now you know that that's really this. it's really preposterous to hold sanctions against countries like russia, the suppliers with the one that you need is also pretty preposterous to bang a fist on the table and say you are with us. we're not with us, you're against us. you can't do that with countries like saudi arabia and emma or us, you know, because they think the people that say either you're with us or against us, assume that you're going to be with us. and then they're in the state of shopping.

you're not, you know, george martin brings up a really good point. i mean, we see obviously probably the worst relations the russian federation has ever had with the west. i mean, i think that's obvious right now. we have saber rattling around taiwan. more and more officials are going there. oh, by the way, ukraine is sending a delegation to taiwan as well. ok. we know that woodside there on here, but martin brings up a really good point. i mean, how much can the u. s. alienate the rest of the world. i mean, really, i'm really sticking to other countries. if they don't get on their side, you know, if this is not, you know, i mean el salvador, great country, nice people. but you know, you politically didn't have a lot of weight, ok? saudi arabia, whatever you think of the royal family, it has a normal amount of weight. and if you want to go one to one and say, who can enjoy the what the other one the most? well, the, the saudis will, will show you something they have shown that though i martin is right. there are

probably personal political reasons, but their economy reasons do there's a global recession coming. you need to cut, cut supplies to maintain price. i mean, that's just common sense. george? yes, yes. i think it's a very important point that you just raised because the, by the ministration just came out this week with this new national security strategy and as predictive. it's invites the well between democracy is the good guys. and i'll talk chris's. this is the central struggle with women, but the point is that it doesn't, the, it's essential struggle. most countries, i'm just simply not signing with the west. and i think the example of saudi arabia is very instructive because it will saudi arabia is an american ally. i mean, it's been an american, i ever since the days of f d r and here was n b s who has been insulted repeatedly by then, you know, this is even before biting the president. and now the expecting him to bail out

the american economy. and to bail out the vitamin ministration. so the saudis pointedly released this letter showing, hey, you were expecting us to interfere in your domestic collection. we're not going to do that. we just simply going to of this, you are an interest and that's increasingly what's happening around the world with more and more countries ditching of the dollar and conducting their own transactions in national occurrences. and so when the loss of the dollar is the global reserve currency, that's a serious blow to us, prestige and hollow. and so if you want to make it, oh, it's between them all. this is only autocracy is, well, you're not doing well. if you're a martin, you met you and you was mentioned here, the news and national security strategy that came out of the bind administration. i

saw you lift your hand to your head is if you are going to use it as a gun, i thought that was exactly my reaction when reading it, because i could not seriously comprehend what they were trying to say other than this ridiculous binary. this is something of the past, it's something you know, in this rules based order. it should have been titled rules based to gemini because that's all it was martin. yeah, i'm, you know, we should never, ever forget when we talk about binds in particular foreign policy, which never forget it was obama who actually says, says don't underestimate jo biden's ability to f it up. now i think when we went to where she seeing that, we seen that he's, he's been in the office for a couple, his name, one foreign policy initiative. it has been a success. you know, every single thing he's touched was turned to does love to invite, invent a new word for that. in the opposite of the midas touch the george's point about america losing power on well losing influence. because you can't really enforce

this, this a gemini, you know, this idea that we always said along who was believe sanctions usually in most cases don't work. but also more importantly, secondary sections don't work. and the point was secondly, sanctions that bind scott is the pump. couldn't make them work when he was trying to pile on this. so global hatred towards iran biden doesn't even have an ounce of trumps for his mob winner. how ever you look at it, he can't make 2nd sanctions what he would like. i mean, let me remind you that it was just a couple of a couple of months ago that the american, you, on a busta actually said, well, visiting a delegation in gonna the, any african countries that go beyond trading with russia beyond just simply trained another culture equipment will be punished by america. there will be implications. we will act towards those countries breaking our sanctions well, guess well, it's already happening. you know,

and something that you won't see reported amongst all the gusts that western media pump out. is that in the last couple of days here in morocco, work and king has signed an agreement with the russian government to for the rush, mr. supply a nuclear power plants in morocco and war to do some nation plans run across not long it's coastline. now one of the implications that massive because america is know and to see america, i'm ok is i see what a lot of state department diplomatic approaches, pool best buddies, stager. this is what it's an old friend, is one of the 1st come to to recognize americans independence. so if it morocco can actually stand up and say to america, well we don't want to get involved in ukraine war. we don't take science, we're not with you in that respect, but you have to respect that. we have to look around people, you know, this was created a global calamity to use george's terminology. and i think when, when the implications in the next couple of days, actually sinking to other african countries, it becomes, you look up to more that they, they tend to look towards rocker there's some sort of big brother of the continent

when that happens. you know, by these policies are going to collapse because he's got no support around the world and you know, the secretary sanctions idea isn't going to work. and i think in the united nations, just a couple of days ago, there was this notion that we should give russia terrorism status that came from zelinski and other one of his crap is the one that everyone gets fed ramos. okay, how does that sound like? completely not. well, i don't think we're going wrong with the sight of, you know, branding. russia is terrorism musician simply because you will get the support around the world. you know, if you, if you brand one country, a terrorist organization, then you have to bring everybody else to work with that country. and of course that's completely out. and also the same thing with this, these caps here. i mean, we had the, the indonesia, which is good, is hosting the g 20. i mean, there are, there officials came out and said, well, that work. no, no one here. what is interested in your price gap because you can use that as

a weapon against any one of us in the future. so we have the precedent being sent here and sent here, and no one wants to touch it because once you create a precedent for it, then everyone is going to be on each other. gentlemen, gonna jump in here, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate. ah ha. ah, need to conquer russian state total narrative type as i'm phoning the northland scheme div, asking him then i'll send them up for a group in the 55 with

ban in the european union. the kremlin. yup. machine, the state on russia for date and c, r t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube with a for you, but basically we deal low exposure to you guys with project with

motion school, little bit of the little money and i love the school with either with welcome back to process where all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is the home edition to remind you, we're discussing some real rules. ah

. i spoke to george in budapest, in my introduction judge, i talked to, i mentioned the nato worlds on this, this group that has got together to rebuild ukraine, re, importantly, re, aren't creating a new arms industry there. this compatible with nato. i mean, i call this kind of unicorn thinking here we, here we are, you know, the countries in the middle of a conflict with a major power. and we have these western powers in their acolyte sitting down saying, you know what, we need to build some new factories there to create arms. well, russia is destroying a good part of the electrical infrastructure here. i mean, do you mean, does this make any sense to you? well, i mean, particularly when they were sitting down, they want to re arm. you crate. what you crate, what is the crate they're talking about. i have no idea what they're talking about . go ahead. so it doesn't make any sense at all, and it's what happens when you start believing your own p r. so every single native boseman going from shoulder a list trust and everybody else. well,

you praise me well, you know, it's, you know, it's military is where, you know, kicking rushes bucks and everything and it's total and utter nonsense. you crazy military is not doing well. and as, as are shown, as like the last weekend, russia can just simply escalate to the point of really great, completed the needs of any moment. you can just slap its fingers and bring your brain to say, the whole notion that ukraine is winning. and then you crank a somehow when the war and then somehow the issue is, well, should we start with will the pre february, 24 orders are we also include crimea as a war objective, as if any of this has any bearing. it's all on reality. and, and this is a, what's happened in nature, i mean that they believe their own p r, which is very dangerous. you know, you're not that we're supposed to believe your own publicity. and as you say,

what ukraine are we talking about it's, it's recently unlike it, there's going to be anything very much left of ukraine other than maybe just a little bit of a, a land mass around the key. if i, yes, you know, the delhi, i in old, you know, shult and bug and i was, you know, having, having these absolutely ridiculous discussions. so as you say, i no idea what, what they're talking about. i don't think anybody else does either give it more and it breaks down the, the question of what is european security going to look like? because the reason why we're, we are where we are, is that we are at the behest of the united states and it's accolade the u. k. they created a european security system, not only without russia but against russia, and they want to do it again. and then we have to look back to december 17th on a sound like a broken record, but we had, you know, what russia set out very clearly in black and white,

what it expect expects for its own security needs within europe. this is being completely ignored. again, and because it was ignored, we know what happened on february 24th. so what are these people thinking about mart this? i'm sorry to put it seems to break it to you, but they are thinking of and you super states, which is what they've been dreaming also decades. if not longer, you know, the federalist and brussels people like this plan. people like macaroni embarrassed dream of united states of europe. and part of that dream is having a real solid, tangible, foreign policy that actually goes beyond just fancy words of european commission press releases, you know, and this, and this is really part of the problem. you know, when you go back to february, i mean, i'll go back to 2014 in a where really this will start it. and it was, you did the ring of you meddling, you having a wet dream in ukraine and offering ukrainians next session, treating your extension for you, which blue hughes in huff, he said as an off,

you're going to far. and that's why invaded crimea, to make it to make a political point in the regions that you should not be going over this line, you know, it. and it's one thing. the problem that you know, is that they have some really big foreign policy ideas. but the exist on paper when it comes to it, they can never ever get the unanimity of support member states because members in the states don't have the, the confidence in the you as a policy making this machine on, on a grand scale. so this is why people at mac all trying to form this you community, which includes supposedly come to let turkey in the u. k. because it's all heading towards me, ami um ani ami, which france would ultimately control. and that is fuel by is delusional. propulsion, if not comical, belief that by people like natural with it, which is that if we had any army, if we had soldiers on bands on the, on the home to my food and going to behave the way he's behaving, he wouldn't invite you, they wouldn't do anything these do we need is this visible detail,

which we don't know at the moment. now there's a couple of things rolling. first of all. so what's the nature of that? just a bunch of retired generals, you know, in belgium watching, take some tv all day long and talking about the crease. i mean, you know what, you've got to put it into context. you know, we are having a struggle now. huge struggle in the world between super powers and what the military gym, entry, ambitions, all the e u is really the problem here in my opinion. you know, just recently we don't shock or, you know, i mean journalist like me follow that you had a good laugh because the new foreign policy chief use a complete threaten, you know, actually told journalists that he had lost all confidence in his own buses. and that he has to fall to get news on the great war from the press, from regional dana this, you know, he said 260 masters, you're not doing enough. you should be doing much better job. i'm going to admit it . but it was the americans who called him 2 days before the recommendation to warn

him the future was going to invite. now that tells you everything you need to know about you and why we're in the mess. it certainly tells you everything you need to know about the subject of the program. but george, again, if this is the thinking in europe in nato world, then rush is the permanent enemy. and maybe it's a convenient, permanent enemy too, because then it gives the reason to create the super state and then the european army. i mean it's, it's threat inflation. this is permanent here. the problem with their thinking is that russia is not going to stand by idling. so would, you know, again, you know, so looking in word, so they want to create a garrison state against us in your frame. so why we will deny them ukraine to create the garrison against us. that's kind of simple thinking, but it's obvious thinking, george, yes, i think that's it. that's exactly what the idea is, is just to create this vas,

political blog whose entire resume dash, i mean has no other isn't that are you putting it together? countries that have absolutely nothing in common with one another. you know, you putting in georgia, turkey, france, or a whole in the subs and what your nice them. well, there's only one thing, you know, the age of russian on the line. a lesser extent. yeah . what, what, what do we really like to like russia, you know, we have, we, you know, we all values russia is inimical to our values. but of course, you're not going to be able to unite all these different people's together, which is why they now they talking of particular sergeant schultz and germany about this a qualified majority voting so we basically are always going to overwhelm the votes of the people who don't like us and you know,

if you do go down that qualified majority, you will not be able to keep the you together because countries are going to walk away a overwhelm you and i like history a lot. that's kind of like the regime in the 1930 slave in thirty's, did the year created a qualified coalition if you know what i mean here. ok, i don't want to go down that path right now. martin. the timing of everything here . a, we've debated this a lot on this program and george and i've done it on a pod, cast, the goggle it who's got the time, who's got the clocks here? well, it seems to me since, after we saw the electricity grade in the ukraine graded severely, and then the russian stepped away in georgia, already talked about the economy here. i mean, time is ultimately very much on russia side because it's only now the middle of october. it's not really gotten cold yet, and this is going to be a very long, difficult winter winter led by some of the most incompetent people of ever health

office in europe. mark thomas, definitely running out. there's no question about that. they still quite mout at the moment, but i think the next couple of weeks they'll be a different, a narrative coming from major nerd a little bit different perspective on how we look at the so war. and what approaches should be, i mean, definitely definitely the advantages with russia in this respect, you know, because, you know, we're already looking. we're already seeing the, as george pointed out, the inclusion of the u. k. economy on chaos in france as so, you know, you got people with gasoline pumps, people on strike, and you go choose going on for kilometers. big weight of ours in germany, we have a meltdown in economy. and, you know, surprise, surprise, a lot of big german companies now just recently announcing that they're moving and wearily moving to whoa, whoa, whoa, into marika. you know, sure. if you put all this into perspective, you know, there's a real problem in the european community and, and unconsciously written, you know,

because we were actually using grip of following our economies. but are our own, our own companies, our own infrastructure. so slipping and sliding away at quite a speed, and now really the only issues to whether, you know, will we have router when so this is all every month that would be a deal breaker. so if you don't know, you know, martin, that's kind of a pre modern thing. you know, we just hope it's a mild winter look what it would look would they, they've lowered themselves to, we have to worry about if it's going to be a hard winter. this is, this is what modern europe is come down to, you know, a hail mary on the weather. a slightly more list goes down to and also, you know, with the, how long can these political leaks, you know, staying power, you know, people talking about days for this trust in the u. k. who was a big champion of support from ukraine. well, you know, within a couple of days of taking office, she amounts 2300000000 pounds to be sent again to, to ukraine. i'm, you know, not

a lot of people probably don't enough people. letter people said, well, what could you do without money to actually heat the country to give it to poor people so they can actually sit in from the fires and survive to wait to see you've got the whether issue is a bit embarrassing. if that's really what it comes down to that, so we're really talking about what else is in a big picture. if you'd, if you stand back, i think i read a report today about the u. s. in terms of saying the war could going for years and you know, there are any major and colossal factors that could change that, such as either mr. pitching resigning is present at some point. well, joe biden, being replaced by someone let from something science, me something that could to shake the whole world and get people to think of the whole issue from a different point of view. different specter germany are almost out of time here. george, i don't know if you're a better man, but are you better for or against list trust? i think less trust is for the birds because the dorian b, they're worried about their jobs. they don't think that she's going to lead them to

victory. the next election and that is the most important thing is even got rid of mag margaret thatcher, because they thought that he wasn't much aligned bill less well that tories or they're terrible towards labor, but they're even worse against their own. ok. all right, gentlemen, that's all the time we have on the think, my guess americans in budapest want to thank you for watching us here. are you next? i remember, ah, ah, a lot of the tactical and strategic approach to this is not realizing the fact that one russia is not going to russia has genuine considerations in the context of the rank street. yes. whatever. one describes in the countries regression, the reality also remains that there are serious issues that one links to the conflict. originally, these happening, no nature wants expansion and they to wants to be globalized. and it's role which

is extraordinary and ratings in with you to look up some levels. only a muscle around noon g q 2 doesn't beating the green shield on nice to me as possible. my with this ashley of nbc, wanted to work with you when you open up the fee for the team of times to not work for phones or something like that. we are at that point. did that with that

with ard see, obtains confidential o. s, the documents currently highlighting the missions reluctance to condemn ukrainian armies attacks on the don bass region. they aren't even releasing the cool, maybe told the ukrainian army so that they stop establishing their artillery foreign positions in what is supposed to be what was supposed to be then 80 militarized zone, and also indirect vicinity. apparently of always c facilities with china discussing a new 5 year development plan breakaway taiwan has slammed, shooting things, statement on re unification.