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ah ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter labelle. what a pathetic creature of the west is created in jeff. ukrainian president regularly demands the west underwrite ukraine war effort. but also the country's economy. on top of this nature, world announces a 10 year plan to rebuild ukraine's military again, oblivious to russia. security demands, ah,

to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist and commentator. and in budapest we have george samuel. he's a podcast to read the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals, or a gentleman cross that rules, and that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. i. let's start out with george in budapest. i, i, i'm sure you notice of the last few days that one of the most favorite activities of the crating president is to go fundraising and in front of anyone that will listen to him. sounds like he has a few credit cards from western countries that he spends a on a whim at times and whatever he wants to fund this is getting into moral hazard. here, there's no accountability, where's the money going? and it ensures that this conflict will go on, which course that's when you praise backers want george. yes it right. a fundraising is

a very good characterization of what he's engaged. and he's like the head of some, you know, foundation that the spent all of his time raising funds. and nobody really on the vision list to where is this money going and to war walk. and, and so this war which is going, going on forever and the other funders don't ask, well, how is this in our interest, in what way to spend our money that will actually so our interests and so he is able to go, but they can relate to the united states also limitless funds americans happily do so, and they continue to disaster. and when we look at it in the state of the european economies, we just have the collapse effectively, the collapse of the government in the united we're, we've already seen,

collapses. turns out we're with major governmental changes in france and italy, or something in germany is standing. where on the brink of an absolute economic calamity, or i'm still to have to give more to ukraine when it's currently clearly leading. everybody to absolute catastrophe in a martin is the you keep hearing from western leaders as long as it takes, but i think that's the wrong refrain. it's as much as it takes because i think it's beginning to sound like, i'll be honest with both of you and our viewers. i've lost count of the billions of dollars. they've been problems every week. more and more money is being allotted or planned to procure or whatever. i've lost track the numbers, getting so big. so. so martin, i mean, it seems to me that you know it, it's fundraising that the fundraising is the end. i mean, i think that's what it is. the whole point is to raise funds. martin. it was asked

to be live, how to be an entrance. i mean, something you said, you don't know how much it is. i think it's about $84000000000.00. something like that so far. i don't think that can be repeated every, every few months. i mean, i think it has to be a point where western economies actually start looking at their own situation or, and people learn crises. but also think of the question. who is really controlled and all this, and i see that i off, i think results. lensky is nowhere near as powerful, influential or dynamic as we probably think he is. he, he's got the media spoiler, that seems to be his job. you know, you do mean, i don't believe that he's running the war. i don't think it's do. i think that's really being controlled by nature chiefs locked away on cars somewhere. but i think the question of funding throws up another question. you know, which is who's really controlling this global dynamic. you know, this, this idea of the west of nate. i was out and there was money and they're able to

make changes on the road who is really controlling it. we saw just recently, i wrote about it 2 weeks ago about how russia g c countries, other radio emeralds are now, you know, sort of forming a sort of condition that relationships are developing every single day. and they pick plus that's opec plus on countries like so you have been met just very recently and decided to co production. know what was out of about that was really about sending a message to the american people and to biden, which is we don't really want you around anymore. and we'd like to rush the home you as much as we can in the midst of elections. because we won't trump back, and we don't really agree with what you're doing with the credit or tool. now, you know, that's really this. it's really preposterous to hold sanctions against countries like russia. the suppliers with the one that you need is also pretty preposterous to bang a fist on the table and say you are with us, we're not with us. you are against us. you can't do that with countries like saudi

arabia, emeralds, you know, because they think the people that say either you're with us or against us, assume that you're going to be with us and then they're in the state of shopping. you're not, you know, george martin brings up a really good point. i mean, we see obviously probably the worst relations the russian federation has ever had with the west. i mean, i think that's obvious right now. we have saber rattling around taiwan. more and more officials are going there. oh, by the way, ukraine is sending a delegation to taiwan as well. ok. we know that woodside there on here, but martin brings up a really good point. i mean, how much can the u. s. alienate the rest of the world. i mean, really, i'm really sticking to other countries. if they don't get on their side, you know, if this is not, you know, i mean el salvador, great country, nice people. but, you know, do you politically didn't have a lot of weight, ok. saudi arabia, whatever you think of the royal family, it has enormous amount of weight. and if you want to go one to one and say,

who can enjoy the what the other one the most well, the, the saudis, a will, will show you something they have shown that though i martin is right. there are probably personal political reasons. but the economic reasons to there's a global recession coming, you need to cut, cut supply to maintain price. i mean, that's just common sense. george? yes, yes. i think it's a very important point that you just raised because the, by the ministration just came out this week with this new national security strategy. and i predict it, it's the vice, the world between democracy is the good guys. and i'll talk chris's, this is the central struggle with women. but the point is that it doesn't, the, it's essential struggle. most countries, i'm just simply not signing with the west. and i think the example of saudi arabia is very instructive because it will saudi arabia is an american ally. i mean, it's been an american ally ever since the days of f d r. and here was

n b s who has been insulted repeatedly, biden, you know, this is even before biting the president. and now the expecting him to bail out the american economy and to bail out the vitamin ministration. so the saudis pointedly released this letter showing, hey, you were expecting us to interfere in your domestic collection. we're not going to do that. we just simply going to of this, you are own interest. and that's increasingly what's happening around the world with more and more countries ditching of the dollar and conducting their own transactions in national occurrences. and so with the loss of the dollar is the global reserve currency. that's a serious blow to us, prestige and hollow. and this, so if you want to make it, oh, it's between the,

this is only autocracy is, well, you're not doing well. and you met you and you was mentioned here in the news, a national security strategy that came out of the biden administration. i saw you lift your hand to your head as if you were going to use it as a gun. that was exactly my reaction when reading it, because i could not seriously comprehend what they were trying to say other than this ridiculous binary. this is something of the past, it's something you know, in this rules based order. it should have been titled rules based to gemini because that's all it was martin. yeah, i'm, you know, we should never, ever forget when we talk about biotin in particular foreign policy, which never forget it was obama who actually says, says don't underestimate jo biden's ability to f it up. now i think what were you seeing now? we seen he's, he's been in the office for a couple. his name, one foreign policy initiative has been a success. you know, every single thing he's touched, the turn to does love to invite, invent

a new word for that. in the opposite of the midas touch, the george's point about america, i'm losing power on well losing influence because you can't really enforce this, this a gemini, you know, this idea that we always said along who was believed sanctions usually in most cases don't work, but also more importantly, secondary sections don't work and the point was 2nd, sanctions that bind scott is the who couldn't make them work when he was trying to pilot this. so global hatred towards iran biden doesn't even have an ounce of trumps for his mom. winner. however, you look at it, he can't make secondary sections what he would like. i mean, let me remind you that it was just a couple of a couple of months ago that the american, you on a buster actually said, well, visiting a delegation in gonna the, any african countries that go beyond trading with russia beyond just simply lane

and cultural equipment will be punished by america. there will be implications. we will act towards those countries breaking our sanctions. well, guess well, it's already happening. you know, something that you won't see reported amongst all the gusts that western media pump out is that in the last couple of days here in morocco will continue signed an agreement with the russian government to, for the russians to supply nuclear power plants in morocco. and war to do some nation plans run across not long its coastline. now, one of the implications that massive because america is know and to see america, i'm ok is i see what a lot of state department diplomatic approach is poor best buddies state. so this is what is an old friend, is one of the 1st come to to recognize americans independence. so if it morocco can actually stand up and say to america, well we don't want to get involved in ukraine war. we don't take science, we're not with you in that respect, but you have to respect that. we have to look around people, you know, this was created to a global calamity to use george's terminology. and i think when,

when the implications in the next couple of days, actually sinking to other african countries in the last countries look up to more that they, they tend to look towards broker. there's some sort of big brother of the continent when that happens. you know, by these policies a bit is going to collapse because he's got no support around the world of, you know, the secretary sanctions idea isn't going to work. and i think in the united nations, just a couple of days ago, there was this notion that we should give russia terrorism status that came from zelinski and other one of his crap is the one that everyone gets fed ramos. okay. because that sounds like completely not. well, i don't think we're going wrong with the sight of, you know, branding. russia is terrors of musicians simply because it will get the support around the world. you know, if you, if you brand one country, a terrorist organization, then you have to brand everybody else who works with that country. and of course that's completely. and also the same thing with this, these caps here. i mean,

we had the, the indonesia, which is good, is hosting the g 20. i mean, there are, there officials came out and said, well that where it will know what will no one here, what is interested in your price gap because you can use that as a weapon against any one of us in the future. so we have the precedent being sent here. it says here and no one wants to touch it because once you create a precedent for it, then everyone is going to be on each other gentlemen. going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate. ah ah. a deal law exposure deal with project

with school a little bit of the money and i love that is going on with my beer that would limit

ah welcome back to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real rules. ah . i spoke to george in budapest, in my introduction judge, i talked to, i mentioned the nato worlds on this, this group that has got together to rebuild ukraine, re importantly, re arm it, creating a new arms industry there. this compatible with nato. i mean,

i call this kind of unicorn thinking here we, here we are, you know, the countries in the middle of a conflict with a major power in the we have these western powers in their acolytes sitting down saying, you know what, we need to build some new factories there to create arms. well, russia is destroying a good part of the electrical infrastructure here. i mean, do you mean, does this make any sense to you? well, i mean, particularly when they were sitting down, they want to re arm you crate. what you crate, what is the crane they're talking about? i have no idea what they're talking about. go ahead. so it doesn't make any sense at all. and it's what happens when you start believing your own p r. so every single native postman going from shoulder a list trust and everybody else will you praise me? well, ever. it's, you know, it's military is where, you know, kicking rushes bucks and everything and it's total and utter nonsense. you crazy military is not doing well. and as, as are shown, is like the last weekend rush,

you can just simply escalate it to the point of really great, completely do. it's nice at any moment. you can just snap it's fingers and bring your brain to say, the whole notion that ukraine is winning, and then you're going to somehow win the war. and then somehow the issue is well, with will the pre february 24 orders. we also include crimea as a war objective, as if any of this is any bearing. it's all on reality. and, and this is a, what's happened in nature. i mean that they believe their own p r, which is very dangerous. you know, you're not that we're supposed to believe your own publicity. and as you say, what ukraine are we talking about it's, it's recently unlike it, there's going to be anything very much left of ukraine other than maybe just a little bit of a, a land mass around the key. if i, yes, you know, the delhi, i an old, you know, shoulder and bug and i was, you know,

having, having these absolutely ridiculous discussions. so as you say, i no idea what, what they're talking about. i don't think anybody else does either. you haven't learned it. big thing the, the question of what is european security going to look like? because the reason why we're, we are where we are, is that we are at the behest of the united states and it's accolade the u. k. they created a european security system, not only without russia but against russia, and they want to do it again. and then we have to look back to december 17th on a sound like a broken record, but we had, you know, what russia set out very clearly in black and white, what it expect expects for its own security needs within europe. this is being completely ignored. again, and because it was ignored, we know what happened on february 24th. so what are these people thinking about mart this? i'm sorry to put it seems to break it to you,

but they are thinking of you super state, which is what they've been dreaming. also decades, if not longer, you know, the federalist and brussels people like this plan. people like macaroni embarrassed dream of united states of europe. and part of that dream is having a real solid, tangible, foreign policy that actually goes beyond just fancy words of european commission press releases, you know, and this, and this is really part of the problem. you know, when you go back to february, i mean, i'll go back to 2014 in a where really this will started and it was, you did the ring of you meddling, you having a wet dream in ukraine and offering ukrainians next session treats session for you, which will cues in the said as an off, you're going to far, and that's why invaded crimea, to make it to make a political point in the regions that you should not be going over this line. you know it, and it's one thing. the problem is that it has some really big phone calls you ideas, but the exist on paper when it comes to it,

they can never ever get the unanimity of support member states. because members in the states don't have the, the confidence in the you as a policy making this machine on, on a grand scale. so this is why people at mac on trying to form this, you community, which includes supposedly come to like turkey in the u. k. because it's all heading towards me, ami um ani ami, which france would ultimately control. and that is fuel by is delusional. propulsion, if not comical, belief that by people like natural which is that if we had any you on me, we had soldiers, the you on bands, on the, on the home to my food and going to behave the way his behavior. he wouldn't invite you. he wouldn't do anything. these do we need is this visible detail, which we don't know at the moment. now there's a couple of things rolling. first of all. so what's the nature of that? just a bunch of retired generals, you know, in belgium watching dave some tv all day long and talking about the crease. i mean, you know what, you've got to put it into context. you know, we are having

a struggle. now a huge struggle in the world between super powers and what the military gym actually, ambitions are you is really the problem here in my opinion. you know, just recently we don't shock or you know, i mean journalist like me follow that you had a good laugh because the new foreign policy chief, us at the ro, complete, threatening, you know, actually told journalists that he had lost all confidence in his own buses. and that he has to fall, he has to get news on the great war from the press, from the regional dana this, you know, he said 260 masters, you're not doing enough. you should be doing a much better job. i'm going to miss it, but it was the americans who called him 2 days before the recommendation to warn him the putin was going to invite. now that tells you everything you need to know about you and why we're in the mess. it certainly tells you everything you need to know about the subject of the program. but george, again, if this is the thinking in europe in nato world,

then rushes the permanent enemy. and maybe it's a convenient, permanent enemy too, because then it gives a reason to crate the super state and then the european army. i mean it's, it's in place. this is permanent here. the problem with their thinking is that russia is not going to stand by idling. so would, you know, again, you know, so it looking in word. so they want to create a garrison state against us in your frame. so why we will deny them you trying to create the garrison against us? that's kind of simple thinking, but it's obvious thinking, george, yes, and that's exactly what the idea is, is just to create this vas, political blog whose entire resume dash, i mean has no other isn't that are you putting it together? comes is that have absolutely nothing in common with one another. you know, you putting in georgia, turkey, france or

a shovel hole in the suburbs and what unites them? well, there's only one thing, you know, there's a sort of russian on the line and will actually back on to a lesser extent. so, yeah. what, what, what do we really, united, russia, you know, we hate russia, we're, you know, we're all values. russia is inimical to our values, but of course, you're not going to be able to unite all this for people together, which is why they now they talking particularly and shows in germany about this, a qualified majority voting so we basically are always going to overwhelm the votes of the people who don't think like us. and, you know, if you do go down that qualified majority homes, you will not be able to keep the, you know, together, the discount is going to walk away. you're getting overwhelm. you and i like history a lot, that's kind of like the regime in the 1930 slave in thirty's, did the year created a qualified coalition if you know,

and i mean here. ok. and i want to go down that path right now martin. the timing of everything here. a we've debated this a lot on this program and george and i've done it. are park house the goggle it, who's got the time? who's got the clocks here? well, it seems to me since, after we saw the electricity great and ukraine grated severely, and then the russians stepped away in georgia, already talked about the economy here. i mean, time is ultimately very much on russia side because it's only now the middle of october. it's not really gotten cold yet, and this is going to be a very long, difficult winter winter led by some of the most incompetent people of ever health office in europe. mark that time is definitely running out. there's no question about that. it's still quite mt at the moment, but i think the next couple of weeks they'll be a different, a narrative coming from major know a little bit different perspective on how we look at the so war. and what

approaches should be, i mean, definitely, definitely advantages with russia in this respect, you know, because, you know, we're already looking, we're already seeing the, as george pointed out, the inclusion of the u. k. economy on chaos in france as so, you know, you got people, were the gosling pumps. people on strike. can you go choose going on for kilometers between the hours in germany we have a meltdown as an economy. and, you know, surprise, surprise, a lot of big german companies now just recently announcing that they're moving and wearily moving to whoa, whoa, whoa, simmons into marika in issue, if you put all this into perspective, you know, there's a real problem in the european community and an unconscious like chris and you know, because we were actually losing grip of following our economies, but are our own, our own companies, our own infrastructure. so slipping and sliding away are quite a speed. and now really the only issues the whether, you know, will we have router when so this is olivia mo, that will be

a deal breaker. i don't know, you know, martin, that's kind of a pre modern thing. you know, we, we just hope it's a mild winter look what it would look like they, they lowered themselves to, we have to worry about if it's going to be a hard winter. this is, this is what modern europe has come down to. a hail mary on the weather, a slightly more or less pulls down to and also you know, whether, how long can these political lease, you know, stay in power. you know, people are talking about days for his trust in the u. k. who was a big champion of support and you can well, you know, within a couple of days of taking office, she amounts to point 3000000000 pounds to be sent again to, to ukraine. i'm, you know, not a lot of people probably don't enough people. the center people said, well what could you do with that money to actually heat the country if you want to call people so they can actually sit from the fires and survive to wait to see got the weather issue is a bit embarrassing if that's really what it comes down to that,

so we're really talking about but also thing a bigger picture, if you, if you stand back, i think i read a report today about the u. s. in terms of saying the walking going for years and you know, there are any major and colossal factors that could change that, such as either mr. pitching resigning is present at some point. well, joe biden, being replaced by someone from something science, me something that could shake the whole world and get people to think of the whole issue from a different point of view. different specter germany are almost out of time here. george, i don't know if you're a better man, but are you better for or against list trust? i think less stress is for the birds because the story and the they're worried about their jobs. they don't think that she's going to lead them to victory. the next of action and that is the most important thing is even got rid of mag margaret thatcher, because they thought that it was an electron line less well that the tories are, they're terrible towards labor, but they're even worse against their own. ok. all right, gentlemen, that's all the time we have on, i think, my guess americans in budapest,

when i think our viewers are watching us here, are you next? i remember. ah, ah, who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions. today. russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. and number those constantly growing. a list of course renewed as you speak on the bill in your senior, mostly mine or wish you were banding all in ports of russian oil and gas. new g i g, with regard to joe by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang

with several people killed in more than a dozen injured off. the military judge crashes near a residential building in the south west and russian city of yay, sparking a large file with 110 russian prisoners a 100 over by you creating a swap deal with getting back $180.00 service with 2 time jake nationals, are responsible for thousands of days go on attack, which left the 11 people dead on a military shooting range and exclusive source tells on c plus washington, reportedly draft the un resolution to send intern.