it all in relief. go ahead mohammed. well, we are at a major inflection point and i think is far too late for the americans to do anything about it. the united states is rapidly on the decline. they continue with their and this war as an occupations. the nice it is basically a military machine and it constantly feeds that military machine. and meanwhile, the rest of the global south is, is on the rise. i mean, when one side is on the decline, the other side rises whether in or whether it's in relative terms or otherwise. so i think that actually this winter will make things much clearer. yeah, because as your moves towards crisis and that as the united states has to carry the burden of europe, it's not as if the united states doesn't suffer nice is,

does suffer. and the nice is also doesn't benefit from a week and broken euro, even if there is it, if they force a divorce between europe and russia to their own benefit. when a broke in europe is, is a wage that the magnitude has to carry with it. so it's not a win for the united states. meanwhile, china continues to evolve. iran is now used to the sanctions, even though the united states as tried desperately to the civilized country. and it didn't work and it's not going to work. iran is now a member of the shanghai operation organization in the summit meeting. and it was pakistan. there were major and agreements between the wine and russia. you run in china. iran in the spec is on russia and china, india wanting to do business with russia to re run through the whole of asia is changing. the math is changing and there's really nothing yet at the united is can

do about a profession. i am in in new ellie the last time you were on the program. i think we talked about the, the g 7 they had met and i asked you, what was the reaction in india and you said not much. ok, it doesn't make the front page. it's not a major headline, this point of this inflection point. i think it's really true because the united states is forcing your either with us or against this. and the global south says, well we, we're not going to make a decision. we don't fear you. and we don't really respect you anymore. that's the inflection point. go ahead in new delhi. well, i think the global south has not kept quiet. they, what they're saying is that through their policy of neutrality and they talk to state, even though they do not want war, they want, you know, respect, serenity, etc. i think they understand the russian position and their security concerns and as far as they're concerned and the west is concerned or any other big grouping is

concerned, they want neutrality, which means strategic autonomy. an independent foreign policy. they do not want to be pressured into this site or that site or to somebody else's waters. so this warren, ukraine is not the war of the global. so, and they've seen the differences of how the west st this water, ukraine, and how it treats the wars that, you know, of intervention, rich based thought in the global thoughts, whether it's iraq or you know, whether it's supporting the saudis in yemen or libya. the attitude they have to was refugees from conflicts. so there is this element of racism. and the south is saying no, we don't want to be thought of well off this war. sure. you bring up a very good point. let's go to where it gets to anchor, who st. joseph burrell before and policy chief of the e. u. i. he came out with

a very peculiar statement to be a few days ago that europe is some kind of garden and other than outside of europe . it's a jungle. you're not in the u. r. is turkey. part of that jungle. i mean, you know, joseph brown, he writes the very weird blogs. ok. but i mean, i think it's this is that tainted neil colonialism. it's still there. go ahead and ankara. so turkey has nothing to jangle about very near to john goes to the garden. it all depends from your look. 30 member of nato. 30 in the garden, 30 of negotiating with you can, you know, just very close to god them, but they're still in the jungle. and this is why turkey is trying to make a party so of balancing the trolley and trying to combine the changing job. politics in the region and in the church gives jeff leon

between east and west like a fan which you know, cheese in the sandwich. what size the pressure russia freshman on the one hand the you to europe and the medical pressure on the other hand truck is trying now somehow to get the 1900 century balance of power or if it is not new for jackie, but one point is clear as my sense from india and from to hit on said the work is changing, the work is not anymore the same as before, trying to sort of february and they were all south. it's acting in a different way than turkey. so turkey is still in the, in the west is like your play, which is trying to make my nowhere with their being as the people think it's the most about the money either in browsers in washington dc. it's at least at the moment, but what's the future we'll bring?

we will see. well, you know, it's interesting when we heard really saying about going back to the 1900 century. when i explained the policy makers in the swamp in washington in london, is that they, they don't know anything about history because all the entire length of history of geo politics is balancing of powers. it's not about values, it's about relative power. that one has turkey. if you want turkey or not, that that's not the question here, but it's playing a marvelous job of balancing its interest. the global south takes that as a q a ran takes, that is a q china takes that is a q africa takes that is a q, but everybody in washington is oblivious to at apparently go head mom and it's, i think it's very important to look it was what joseph well said and understand implications. it was a very racist game, but it shows that there is no real difference between the liberals and the

political regime in europe and states and the right wing republicans and the neo cons. they're basically saying the same thing for the rest of the world. one is just being more creative in language. the other is more crude like bolton, what, what's the difference in what bolton says and what joseph were else as an impact? one world said these liberals in iran, these young liberals who are, i think that there are some sort of a garden in europe when well, makes the statements. he's flapping them in the face. he's basic telling them that you're worthless to us. you're beneath us, you're part of the jungle. for the rest of us being in the jungle is just fine. we don't want to be a part of that garden, the garden that rapes and ponderous deals money from venezuela. that's impose a see john, the cuban people for decades. this tried to strangle the riding people that's

carried out genocide a longer. so these, in yemen, i survive to chemical attacks. those chemicals were given to them was same by the gardeners in europe. so they, they don't see the reality as it is. they only see the reality as they would wish it to be. that is exactly why they miscalculated in russia. they thought they'll pull the plug. those imposed sanctions on russia and russia will collapse and it's game over. so all those provocations that they carried on expanding eastward, lying to russia, overthrowing the government in ukraine, and imposing an antique or russian government, supporting the a right wing factory to send the nazis in ukraine. all of that was done because they thought what their victory was inevitable. but they fail to recognize reality

that russia is a huge power that iraq is a force to reckon with. look at whoever is drones, they are in ukraine. now. nato, with all the is with all the claims to great. this can even deal with a few drowns this. these are countries that have been in charge for hundreds of years. and they, they think that they can govern over the rest of the world. they are now, they are beginning to understand that the parents, they will, they believe that have a moral right to a professor to annoy. i mean, it's a well hum, it brings up a very good point here. mean we, irrespective of theory, neo conservative or liberal intervention, it's, it's all about had gemini, you know, you, it's had gemini, it's like putting lipstick on his gemini. it's still a gemini professor in new delhi. correct? i want to make 3 points, one about a head germany is that it is preventing them to us see you or, or even admit other countries perceptions. so they want to see everything by then

lance. and they don't recognize the opinion of other countries or even try to understand the different perceptions. so that's one bit about this balance. so far, again, balance of bar from the western realist is about, you know, the west balancing par with either the other powerful block which was earlier the soviet union. and now may be balancing with china. they never recognize the voice of the south. the south was never had a hedge, a monic weiss and so they never recognized it so they don't matter in the balance of fall. now when they have weakened, they need the south and therefore they're going to the un general assembly, which they didn't do earlier for any issue for palestine offers ok. professor, professor professor, you said you had 3 points. you just said 2 of them are going to go to a short break away. and when we come back and do the 3rd boy doug, we are going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break and, and after that short break will, can you continue our discussion on the global south say with

ah, need to come to the russian state. will never be outside as on the northland scheme, davis with anyone else with ben in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machine, the state on russia for date and split our t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and pinterest. and with

me, ah, with

ah ah, welcome back across the top where all things are considered on peter lavelle. glad you were discussing the global south. ah, okay, it's go back to the good professor in new delhi, you enumerating on 3 point to got to in before the break. now the 3rd one go right ahead. america point is based on what up analysts said about they miscalculated russia. the point is that i've noticed that the west has various for the us earlier . they are the slammer phobia. we have sino phobia, they have russo phobia and they have for the us about the so us so, so they cannot see the entire picture and they miscalculate. so they've made to be

able to made strategic areas. there are a lot of problems in the global south. i'm not saying that it's you know, even that whether it's a great jungle or not. of course you know that identity issues, ethnic issues, they're local wars, but nonetheless, i don't think the west through it's very aggressive, militarist geo politics is helping to resolve any of these. that is why i think the looking forward to this transit this global transition in injections is, oh i, i think always have good reason to of it there's going to be put forces that will resist it. and that's what we're seeing. because when we, when you are a head human starts declining, it red lashes out, and that's what we've seen, particularly in this century. but i would say there's a long, 500 year history of it as well. her was go back to anchor. let me quote anthony blank and lead that secretary of state. you said here, this is again in the last new cycle. if washington does not set the rules for the world than someone else, well,

i think someone else who should make the global south show it. okay. hasn't a west caused enough trouble for the last 500 years for the rest of us? go ahead in ankara. first of all, joseph and i wrote a book which read the title. do more. 1 matter, yes, and american foreign policy and morale does not rather as joseph 9 says, and then we have john mesh armor wrote the decline of the wrist and liberalism, i think the moment we fear of discussion very much in europe and america about the what the remains dental of today is the geopolitical change of geopolitical realism and balance of power are now whether global se would balance the west is an open question. i don't know. we will see how the global solid really develop further at the moment. it's, there's not a strong to contain or to block the west at the moment that economists

know me to turn this pack if the democratic countries, their problems democratic, so se faced many challenges and the, the liberal, or the republicans, or democrats whatsoever thinking class. and also societies, they also do not know how to ball further because the relative decline is indeed there are on the west, no doubt about it is just awful and in the political terms. but the west is still very strong in meditative terms. and this is again, what matters in national, i would military power is important, but let me go back to my home and here, i mean, one of the things, one of the most glaring things we've been watching over the last few years is the deed dollarization of the global economy, if you don't that, that, you know,

you know, you could say you could be afraid of tanks, but banks are more important at the end of the day. and this, this, this graph, the hang onto gemini, is destroying what gave them power in the 1st place. i mean, how many countries now are trading in their own domestic currencies? it is growing leaps and bounds, and people are ditching the dollar because of sanctions, secondary sanctions, price caps, all of this here. it's remarkable how they destroy their own power mohammed. yes, and as a result of this war and all the sanctions and the sanctions on other countries, what we now see is, for example, the running russia. they're developing a north south corridor which goes from east europe and asia to iran and the persian gulf. and thus, russia canal trade without even going through europe. they can trade with africa, they can trade with continents. and in particular,

india fremont. you also have now a trade route from central asia being developed to he run through and also to russia. so we see all these trade links being developed, then exclude the united states and europeans. and on the other hand, since the united states has sanctioned so many countries they, they're encouraging them to trade in their own currency. so now running russia both are sanction. now they trade with china becoming increasingly concerned, so they are developing alternative means to trade with iran, russia. india is also going to be they are going to need to trade with iran, russia, china, and hundreds of they have to also develop alternative means. in other words, with the americans in the europeans and the same issue that america with americans and europeans are doing is they themselves, by over using this weapon, this really barbaric weapon which targets ordinary people who are using it. they've created an incentive for other countries. both did move their trade routes away

from them to carry on try their financial transactions without including them. and they are going to be huge, long term consequences. and the problem that the european americans have is that the problems is at home or on the rise. they used to have this facade that they were democracies, which they never were. these are oligarchy is the, that when you, when the means of giving it disseminating information that are in the hands of a few, you can't cover the mark. but they had constantly for centuries or these for, for the last few days have been telling their, their populations that you're, you're in the garden and the rest of the world is a jungle. but now, as things get worse in europe, in the united states, people are going to see no, this is man, a guardian for all of his own is only a guardian for the likes of brow and that class of people. so i think that not only are we going to see, are we seeing the rise and greater independence of the global south and asia from

the west. but also we're going to see major fractures growing larger and emerging in the west itself. and in particular, in europe, in the coming months, you know, professor to know the, one of the things that really irks me in it's something i've been doing almost to the last 2 years. i really like asking my guess what, how do you understand the term rules based order? because i can, i can't figure out really what it means other than just we make the rules and you follow it. i mean is, is it a little bit more nuanced than that? what's, what's the position in new delhi, for example, we're look um how we understand rules based order is really that it has to include international law. it has to include the norms and traditions set in institutions where a number of countries have agreed on it that it's the w t o on dad, the various united you know, the trade or norms, et cetera. so if it all comes together, you can have a rule based order,

but international law and what's been passed legally needs to be there at the same time. no one set of con, our countries can impose a ruler based order outside these and say that we have exemptions from earlier security council resolutions. or we can do the rito on the issue of palestine, but you cannot a so the rule based order, you know, then it doesn't mean very much bothers. the dollar is concerned. there is no other reserve currency as yet. yes. there is a dollar swap arrangement going on between many trading knows especially with asia, and therefore earlier, you know, from 80 percent of the dollar being used across trade. now it's almost about 50 between 50 and 60 percent. so there is a decline, but there's a long way to go, because at the moment there is no alternate reserve currency and i think what will,

how will it will really be pushed if as we heard russia and opec agreed to cut out the petro darla and do trade in, in their local currency. so we see all this, at least i do also, you know, very multiple kind, a way that we don't block out any one. they're not for revenge because of colonialism. but we believe in a plural, multi paula world, where everyone can have a say, and that the, the united nations should be strengthened and democrat dies, where the global south also has an equal voice. let's go to, let's go back to around here. it's the, the issue of opec is really quite curious here because the united states is very upset. it's going to, it's going to look per sanctions against. what was that reimagined the policy with saudi arabia. and it's really interesting, and we had the spokesperson spokesperson coming out and saying, you know, you know,

this is all the, the saudis are in this country. now, it was unanimous. every single member of opec said this is a policy that we're going to pursue because it's not a person. further is their domestic agendas. i mean, their sovereignty. i mean that that's not hard to understand, but the american treat it is if the written the oil in iran in the oil. and so you every is, there's go ahead moment. i think there are 2 things that are really interesting here. one is the, the kind of the united states, just 3 years ago maybe it was, mom had been salmon, was sitting aligned leave aside from, as trump was showing all the weapon systems that he was going to buy from the united states. and he and mohammed and salmon looked very embarrassed about the whole presentation in front of the reporters. and then now the united states has become so weak that even the cow that's been built is

showing resistance that i think is very revealing. on the other hand, i think it's also important to keep in mind that the europeans and americans have brought this upon themselves. they destroy the rock, they sanctioned the rom, they sanction venezuela. they destroyed much of syria, which was an oil producing country. they destroyed the sudan, which was also an oil explorer when the united states and the european. and then there's libya, of course. so when he, united states in its european allies, destroy these countries or impose sanctions on these countries. and there's a loss in global production or at the capacity for production then. well, when they sanction the russians, then they get what they deserve. now they've created the shortage themselves. so now, because they've destroyed so many different countries,

because the sanction so many different countries, we see poetic justice, they said they sanctioned the russian. they send the prices through the roof. all the sanction countries are making money. the russians are making money and europe goes into crisis. okay, am i sorry? who say we lost you there for a 2nd? i'm glad you're back here, but unfortunately, we're out of time. fascinating discussion in the global south something. crosstalk is going to continue to, to wanna explore here many, and i get some to run and correct and in new delhi. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember that with a, a new deal,

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