any political party that goes against the government designed by the european union in washington, what is absolutely criminalized, or there's no information on television programs. but trials are taking place in which everything resembles the court of the spanish inquisition of the middle ages, in which your opinions are no longer right or wrong. but to morrow, you are treated as an immoral person being completely discredited. i mean, if you, when the public sees your face on tv, they will immediately thing to what you are going to say is nonsense. it's fake, it's you on it. and it was obvious, even when there was a case with korea, dela sarah, bye. yeah, no television channel invited us to speak about the issue or that is that there were people who defended, for example, my position that we will get, but the television did not speak to me, did not interview me and did not ask me what i think about it so their problem is not the i'm telling the truth or not telling the truth. so just thought of the problem is that what i tell the general public is what creates problems for them. because then people change their minds about the narrative that has been pushed on

follow up, live, and use our level is up next away the course talk. and we'll be back at the top of them. with hello and welcome to cross stock. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle much the chagrin of the west, china in the global south have not condemned or isolated russia over the conflict in ukraine. in fact, the opposite appears to have happened. the global south does not embrace the west demand of a rules based order or so called western values. in general, 500 years of western domination is coming to an end. ah,

the cross talking the global south, i'm joined by my guess mohammed mirandi and in toronto, he is professor at the university of trying to new delhi. we have professor troy, she is professor emeritus at the school of international studies at newer university. and in ankara we cross who's saying body, he is president of the foreign policy institute or cross talk roles and a fact that means he can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate mom and let me go to you 1st and turn around and welcome back to the program after such a long hiatus here jake sullivan, that brilliant guy in washington. he says, the stakes could not be higher. we are at an inflection point. i agree with him, okay. probably for reasons that he wouldn't agree with me about. but nonetheless, we are an inflection point, and ukraine has put it all in relief. go ahead mohammed. well, we are at a major infection point and i think it's far too late for the americans to do anything about it. the united states is rapidly on the decline. they continue with

their and this war as an occupations. the nice it is basically a military machine and it constantly feeds that military machine. and meanwhile, the rest of the global south is, is on the rise. i mean, when one side is on the decline, the other side rises, whether in or whether it's in relative terms or otherwise. so i think that actually this winter will make things much clearer. yeah, because as europe moves towards crisis, and as the united states has to carry the burden of europe, it's not as if the united states doesn't suffer the nice it does offer. and the nice, it also doesn't benefit from a week and broken euro, even if there is it, if they force a divorce between europe and russia to their own benefit. when a broken euro is, is a wage that the magazine has to carry with it. so it's not

a win for the united states. meanwhile, china continues to evolve. iran is now used to the sanctions, even though the united states has tried desperately to the stabilize the country. but it didn't work and it's not going to work. iran is now a member of the shanghai cooperation organization in the summit meeting and was pakistan. there were major and agreements between the line in russia. you run in china, iran, in the specs on russia and china, india wanting to do business with russia to re run through the whole of asia is changing. the math is changing. and there's really nothing that the united is can do about a professional to annoy him in new really the last time you were on the program. i think we talked about the, the g 7 that i had met and i asked you, what was the reaction in india and you said not much. ok, it doesn't make the front page. it's not

a major headline. this point of this inflection point. i think it's really true because the united states is forcing you either with us or against this. and the global south says, well we, we're not going to make a decision. we don't fear you, and we don't really respect you anymore. that's the inflection point. go ahead in new delhi. well, i think the global south has not kept quiet. they, what they're saying is with through their policy of neutrality and they talked to state, even though they do not want war, they want to, you know, respect, serenity, et cetera. i think they understand the russian position and their security concerns and as far as they're concerned and the west is concerned or any other big grouping is concerned, they want neutrality, which means strategic autonomy. an independent foreign policy. they do not want to be pressured into this site or that site or to somebody else's waters. so this warren, ukraine is not the war of the global. so,

and they've seen the differences of how the, with st. this water, new cleaning, how it treats the war that you know, of intervention, rich based thought in the global south, whether it's iraq or, you know, whether supporting the saudis in yemen or libya. the attitude they have to was refugees from conflicts. so there is element of racism and the south is saying no, we don't want to be bought off. well off, there's water. sure you bring up a very and she point, let's go to where it gets to anchor, who st. joseph burrell, before and policy chief of the e. u. i. he came out with a very peculiar statement to be a few days ago that europe is some kind of garden and other than outside of europe . it's a jungle you're not in the u. r. is turkey, part of that jungle?

i mean, you know, joseph brown, he writes the very weird blogs. ok. but i mean, i think it's, this is that tainted neil colonialism. it's still there. go ahead and ankara. so turkey has nothing to jangle about very near to john goes to the garden. it all depends from your look courteous member of nato, 30 in the garden, 30 of negotiating with you to can you know, just middle clothes guzman, but they're still in the jungle. and this is why turkey is trying to make a party so of balance, you know, trying to do and trying to combine the changing job politics in duration. and in the church gives jeff between east and west like a fan which you know, cheese in the sandwich. what sites the pressure russia freshman on the one hand, the you know, europe and the medic oppression. and on the other hand truck is trying now somehow

to get the 1900 century balance of power. it is not new for jerky, but one point is clear as my friends from india and from to hit on said that the work is changing, the work is not anymore the same as before trying to sort of february. and the global south is, i think, in a different way than turkey. i my faith. so turkey is still in the, in the west. it's like your play, which is trying to make a maneuver with that being said, the people think it's the most about the men that are there in a browser in washington dc. it's at least at the moment, but what's the future we'll bring? we will see. well, you know, it's interesting when we heard really saying about going back to the 1900 century, what i find, you know, policy makers in the swamp in washington in london is that they, they don't know anything about history because the entire length of history of geo

politics is balancing of powers, it's not about values, it's about relative power. that one has turkey. if you want turkey or not, that that's the question here, but it's playing a marvelous job of balancing its interest. the global south takes that as a q a ran takes, that is a q china takes that is a q africa takes that is a q, but everybody in washington is oblivious to at apparently go head mom and i think it's very important to look at was what joseph brown said and understand implications. there was a very racist game, but it shows that there is no real difference between the liberals and the political regime in europe and states and the right wing republicans and the neocons. they're basically saying the same thing for the rest of the world. one is just being more creative in language. the other

is more crude like bolton, what, what's the difference between what bolton says and where to where else as an impact? what well said these liberals in iran, these young liberals who are, i think that there are some sort of a garden in europe when or else makes the statements. he's flapping them in the face. he's basic telling them that you're worthless to us. you're beneath us. you're part of the jungle for the rest of us being in the jumble is just fine. we don't want to be a part of that garden, the garden that rapes and ponderous deals money from venezuela. that's imposed to see john, the cuban people for decades. this tried to strangle the riding people that's carried out genocide. among the some of these in yemen, i survive to chemical attacks. those chemicals were given to saddam hussein by the gardeners in europe. so they don't see the reality as it is. they

only see the reality as they would wish it to be. that is exactly why they miscalculated in russia. they thought they'll pull the plug. those imposed sanctions on russia and russia will collapse and it's game over. so all those provocations that they carried on expanding eastward, lying to russia, overthrowing the government in ukraine, and imposing an antique or russian government, supporting the a right wing faction to send the nazis in ukraine. all of that was done because they thought it was their victory was inevitable. but they fail to recognize reality that russia is a huge power that iran is a force to reckon with. look at whoever is drones. they are in ukraine, now. nato, with all the it's a, with all the claims to great, this can even deal with a few drowns this. these are countries that have been in charge for hundreds of

years. and they, they think that they can govern over the rest of the world. they are now, they are beginning to understand that the parents, they will, they believe that they have a moral right to a professor to annoy. i mean, it will hum, it brings up a very good point here. i mean, we, irrespective of theory, neo conservative or liberal intervention, it's, it's all about had gemini, you know, you had gemini, it's like putting lipstick on his gemini. it's still a gemini professor in new delhi. correct? i want to make 3 points, one about a head germany is that it is preventing them to see you or, or even admit other countries perceptions. so they want to see everything by balance, and they don't to recognize the opinion of other countries or even try to understand the different perceptions. so that's one bit about this balance of bar. again, balance of bar from the western realist is about, you know,

the west balancing bar with, or the, the other powerful block which was earlier the soviet union. and now may be balancing with china. they never recognized the voice of the south. the south was never had a hedge, a monic weiss and so they never recognize it, so they don't match in the balance of bar. now when they have weakened beneath the south and therefore they're going to the un general assembly, which they didn't do earlier for any issue for palestine off or ok. professor, professor professor, you said you have 3 points. you just said 2 of them are going to go to a short break to go away. and when we come back, we'll do the 3rd boy again. we are going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break and, and after that short break, we'll can continue our discussion on the global south se with ah, ah,

ah, lisa hunter, russian state total narrative. i stayed as on the northland scheme div, asking him the american house up for a week within the 55. would this be the key?

so mine is to final speaking with we will ban in the european union the kremlin jeff machine. the state aren't russia today and school r t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube with request with me. i welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered on peter lavelle. glad you were discussing the global south.

ah, okay, it's go back to the good professor in dela, you enumerating on 3 point to got to in before the break. now the 3rd one go right ahead. limited point is based on what up and is said about. they miscalculated russia. the point is that of notice that the west has various for us on your dad. this lama for be we have sino for bill. they have russo phobia and they have for bell about the so of so, so they cannot see the entire picture and they miscalculate. so they've made, we've also made strategic errors. there are a lot of problems in the global south. i'm not saying that it's you know, even that whether it's a great jungle or not. of course, you know that identity issues, ethnic issues, they're local war. but nonetheless, i don't think though with through it's very aggressive,

militarist geo politics is helping to resolve any of these. that is why i think we are looking forward to this transit, this builder transition. and then this is why i think always have good reason to admit there's going to be put forces that will resist it. and that's what we're seeing. because when you had your mind starts declining, it red lashes out. and this is what we've seen, particularly in this century, but i would say there's a long 500 year history of it as well here. let's go back to anchor. let me quote that anthony blink and the secretary of state. you said, you know, this is again in the last new cycle. if washington does not set the rules for the world than someone else. well, i think so. what else should i think the global found? show it okay. hasn't the west cause enough trouble for the last 500 years for the rest of us? go ahead in ankara. first of all, joseph and i wrote a book written which read the title. do more. 1 matter, yes, and american foreign policy morale does not matter. as joseph notices and then we

have john mesh armor wrote the decline of the wrist. and liberalism, i think, at the moment we fear of discussion very much in europe and in america about the what remains dental today is the joe political change of geopolitical realism and balance of power. or it's now whether global sour. so what value on the west is an open question. i don't know. we will see how the global solid really develop further at the moment it's, there's not the trunk to contain or to block the west at the moment by that economy. no, me to turn this pack is the democratic countries as their problems democratic, so se faced many challenges and the, the liberal, or the republicans, or democrats whatsoever thinking class and also societies. they also do not know

how to go further because the relative decline is indeed there was no doubt about it in shows offical and in the political terms. but the west is still very strong in military terms. i'm. this is again, what matters international i would military power is important, but let me go back to my home and here, i mean, one of the things, one of the most glaring things we've been watching over the last few years is the deed, dollarization of the global economy, if you don't, it that, that, you know, you know, you could say you could be afraid of tanks, but banks are more important at the end of the day. and this, this, this graph, the hang onto gemini, is destroying what gave them power in the 1st place. i mean, how many countries now are trading in their own domestic currencies? it is growing leaps and bounds,

and people are ditching the dollar because of sanctions, secondary sanctions, price caps, all of this here. it's remarkable how they destroy their own power, muhammad. yes, and as a result of this war and all the sanctions and the sanctions on other countries, what we now see is, for example, the running russia. they're developing a north south corridor which goes from east europe and asia to iran and the persian gulf. and thus, russia canal trade without even going through europe. they can trade with africa, they can trade with continent. and in particular, india for you are, you also have now a trade route from central asia being developed to he run through and also to russia. so we see all these trade links being developed that exclude the united states and europeans. and on the other hand, since the united states has sanctioned so many countries they,

they're encouraging them to trade in their own currency. so now you run in russia both are sanction, now they trade with these china becoming increasingly concerned. so they're developing alternative means to trade with iran, russia, india is also going to be they are going to need to trade with iran, russia, china, and hunger. so they have to also develop alternative means, in other words, with the americans in the europeans and the same issue in latin america with americans and europeans are doing is they themselves, by over using this weapon, this really barbaric weapon which targets or people buying over using it, they've created an incentive for other countries. both did move their trade routes away from them to carry on try their financial transactions without including them . and they are going to be huge, long term consequences and the problem that the europeans and americans. how is that? the problems is at home or on the rise. they used to have this facade that they

were democracies, which they never were. these are oligarchy is the, when you, when the means of giving it disseminating information that are in the hands of a few, you can cover the mark, but they had constantly for centuries on these, for the last few decades. have been telling their populations that you're, you're in the garden and the rest of the world is a jungle. but now, as things get worse in europe, in the united states, people are going to see, you know, this is not a garden for all of its own, is only a garden for the likes of brow and that class of people. so i think that not only are we going to see, are we seeing the rise and greater independence of the global south and asia from the west. but also we're going to see major fractures growing larger and emerging in the wes itself. and in particular, in europe, in the coming months in a professor tonight, the one of the things that really irks me in it's something i've been doing almost to the last 2 years. i really like asking my guess what,

how do you understand the term rules based order? because i can, i can't figure out really what it means other than just we make the rules and you follow it. i mean is, is it a little bit more nuanced than that? what's, what's the position in new delhi, for example, we're look um how we understand rules based order is really that it has to include international law. it has to include the norms and traditions set in institutions where a number of countries have agreed on it that it's the w t o on dad, the various united, you know, the trade arms, et cetera. so if it all comes together, you can have a rule based order, but international law and what's been passed legally needs to be there at the same time. no one set of can. countries can impose a ruler based order outside these and say that we have exemptions from earlier

security council resolutions or we can do the rito on the issue of palestine, but you cannot a so the rule based order, you know, then it doesn't mean very much far as the dollar is concerned, there is no other reserved guarantee as yet. yes, there is a dollar swap arrangement going on between many trading partners, especially with asia. and therefore, earlier, you know, from 80 percent of the dollar being used across trade. now it's almost about 50 between 50 and 60 percent, so there is a decline, but there's a long way to go, because at the moment there's no alternate reserve currency and i think what will, how will it will really be pushed if as we heard russia and opec agreed to cut out the petro darla and do trade in, in their local currency. so we see all this, at least, i do also, you know,

very multiple kind, a way that we don't block out anyone. they're not for revenge because of colonialism. we believe in a plural multiple world where everyone can have a say and that the, the united nations and should be strengthened and democrat dice, where the global south also has an equal voice. let's go to, let's go back to, to round here. it's the, the issue of opec is really quite curious here because the united states is very upset. it's going to, it's going to look per sanctions against. what was that reimagined the policy with saudi arabia. and it's really interesting, and we had the spokesperson spokesperson coming out and saying, you know, you know, this is all the, the saudis are in this country. now, it was unanimous. every single member of opec said this is a policy that we're going to pursue because it's not a person further, it's their domestic agendas. i mean, they're sovereignty. i mean that that's not hard to understand. but the americans

that treat it is if the written, the oil in iran in the oil and saudi arabia is there's go ahead moment. i think there are 2 things that are really interesting here. one is the, the kind of the united states, just 3 years ago maybe it was, mom had been salmon, was sitting aligned leave aside from, as trump was showing all the weapon systems that he was going to buy from the united states. and he and mohammed and so on, looked very embarrassed about the whole presentation in front of the reporters. and then now the united states has become so weak that even the cow that's been built is showing resistance that i think is very revealing. on the other hand, i think it's also important to keep in mind that the europeans and americans have brought this upon themselves. they destroyed iraq, they sanctioned the rom,

they sanction venezuela. they destroyed much of syria, which was an oil producing country. they destroyed the sudan, which was also an oil explorer when the united states and the european. and then there's libya, of course. so when he, united states in its european allies, destroy these countries or impose sanctions on these countries. and there is a loss in global production or at the capacity for production, then, well, when they sanctioned the russians, then they get what they deserve. now they've created the shortage themselves. so now, because they've destroyed so many different countries, because the sanction so many different countries, we see poetic justice, they said they sanctioned the russian. they send the prices through the roof. all the sanction countries are making money. the russians are making money and europe goes into crisis. ok, i'm, i'm sorry, i would say we lost you there for a 2nd. i'm glad you're back here, but unfortunately,

we're out of time. fascinating discussion in the global south something. crosstalk is going to continue to, to wanna explore here many and i guess in turin, anchorage, and in new delhi. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time, remember ah, ah, well, it's showing wrong what? all right, just a shave out disdain becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will depart, we choose to look for common ground. a

committee look on your bill says that it's not with in spoken with sufficient or least so you do study williams? sure. do you know much about with, with boilers within a certain amount of ocean you when you check less. people with reason to send me a storage form which you are concerned about with graham tradition

who a a signed a declaration of martial law in the for you, russian territories donates, can look on republics as well as the here. so on and is up over here, regions are all under martial law, even before they joined russia. the time is now come to make this official and declares martial law in for russian territories on the front line with the ukraine . we break down the ramifications. remove a winter without rush and gas supplies and he refuses to.