right now, saving the remainder of their belongings, their dream, his for this conflict to be over as soon as possible, so they can find the live peaceful life. barely brilliant, bitterly, tioga roach. if the fur shell flew over the 2nd, flew over to the 3rd fowl. well, you can see for yourself what happened. the roof was broken, the kitchen was smashed, nothing left of the fence. you know what i'm tired of all this. my nerves can't take it. you do something, they destroy everything every time. so why do anything is the same for every one here? someone's house was destroyed and some one was killed. it's unbearable for seal include, you know skim than what we are. refugees. we live in hostiles. we live anywhere. we can book. everyone wants to go home and see at least something we are told what's to see there. everything is destroyed, only stones are lasted, but it's our home. it belongs to you and no one knows how everything will turn out in the future of civilian casualties. here in done that scans in the rest of the

next to republic continued to mount on a daily basis of the last 24 hours. at least 2 people have been killed. 2 elderly women, 2 people were injured. but as the day progresses, that number may still grow as ukrainian nationalists continue shilling residential areas of the nest people's republic ramon cars for if archie dun asked thanks for joining us to the program. here with archie international, one of our top stories moments ago the russian president vladimir putin was addressing that of the russia security council. explaining that russia did pull out of the black sea grain deal because ukrainian forces were using the humanitarian corridor to attack of russian ships. however, now the key f, as a potentially offered and guaranteed safety assurances, russia, it's back in the deal. read more about it ought to be thought. ah,

ah, ah, ah, hello and welcome to cross back or all things considered i'm peter level, for most prior to february 24th ukraine was just another eastern european country since then. the conflict in ukraine has created deep divisions all across europe and beyond russia in europe today virtually have no common ground. this may be the case for a very long time, becomes, ah, cross stocking europe and russia divided. i'm joined by my guess, the bush of mileage in washington. he's

a blogger and calmness in brick. we have lucas gauge. he is a u. s. m. c veteran, author and philosopher. and in london we crossed ad real, cassandra, he is the founder of aka consulting and a foreign affairs analyst, or a gentleman crossing roles in effect. that means you can jump in in time you want, and i always appreciate the boy. sure, let me go to you 1st. we have the jury. the german president son meyer, says at berlin and moscow are now opponents. he describes russia's military operation in ukraine as a water. and so i kind of got me thinking because in the early, 2, thousands when we, when the, the war in afghanistan started, there was a public opinion polls one some university. and they asked afghans, does 911 mean anything to you? the date, 911, and like 98 percent of the people who get and said, nope, doesn't mean much to me at all. the reason why i'm bringing this up is that stein myer. again, with his kind of neo colonial attitude,

the world must accept the west's date and what it considers to be. watersheds we have to the whole world has to run on their calendar. because i mean, if you're looking at ukraine, i think a lot of people and ukraine, and particularly in russia, would say, i think we had to go back to the clinton administration with nato expansion here. why am i bringing this up? because that we have a parallel ways we have different narratives, and when one narrative does not accept it, there is another alternative narrative to understanding something. we have a deadlock and that's what we have now with the west in russia. thoughts, my friend go. absolutely. i mean, i'm on the records that the actual watershed was in 1999 when nato decided to expand and bomb us lava there by obliterating any pretence that it actually cared about international law. and that's literally the time where it last, russia, for all intents and purposes, i mean, this is, this is all documented it's, it's

a wealth, well documented hypothesis. so what we're seeing today are the consequences of this, of these actions that there, this is not something that you know just happened yesterday. i know that a lot of people in the west including sy meyer have the memories of squirrels on amphetamine. but you know that the world didn't start yesterday and, you know, choices have consequences and i'm sorry, but if somebody who's from a country that got an aided by nazi germany in world war 2, for germans to say anything about, you know, opponents and this, and then the other, especially after their own experience with russia over the past 2 centuries, is just too rich. i mean, you can, can you even make one of this stuff? you know, used to be that the germans had to go to stalingrad to freeze to death. and now they can just sit at home, and that's not because of russia, it's because they're all stupid policies. they built their entire economy on access to russian energy, and then they cut it off despite themselves. we'll look how well that's going for

them. well, and the boys they can stay with you. sergeant schultz. that's how i referred to him on this program when he was in moscow before the complex started and they were talking about ethnic cleansing in don bass, he laughed again. a german laughing at ethnic cleansing, it's something that it should, it's just an becoming of a german leader here. let me go to lucas in the same vein here. when i look at, you know, responsible state craft in some articles in the american conservative. and they love the, is this word unprovoked, unprovoked. but this goes back to when a boy she was talking about it. you know, you don't have to go too far to see that this was intentionally provoked. lucas? yes, i mean, these wars are engineering. if you ask me, that's my opinion on this whole thing. they know our plans gonna respond. they know what a pushes buttons and the western media start with. he invaded that's what they start . that's the most people think. oh my god,

he invaded unprovoked. why did he do this is a madman. he's going to take all of ukraine. he's going to take all of europe. we've heard these narratives before. so most people have no idea that the truth is, this is going on for a long time. as he mentioned earlier, and you know, the shelling and dumb boss to ethnic cleansing in the region which is being denied by the german people there. and here we go and repeating the same lice again that is on provoke when the reality, the mis agreements the, the shelling in the people there that the cleansing, making it illegal to speak. russia. i mean, that's how can that not be ethnic cleansing, right? there's, well, these are all facts undisputed facts. so when the west is starting the narrative with, he invaded for no reason that he's a madman. they're lying to everyone in a fortune. europeans are going to suffer this winter because of these lies that their leaders are telling them the same wise has sent me to iraq and other regions in the middle east as well. with all my fellow marine said they will fight in afghanistan, whatever the case them the same wise against the saw. it's the same script,

different actors that we're seeing here. but andrea, if we, if we can say with the unprovoked element here, well, if you assume that something is unprovoked, then you cannot negotiate. because you promote you, you did this intentionally, you woke up in the morning and suddenly you want to invade a country, hear it because of the narrative here. you can even begin to think about negotiations because your narrative is predicated on something that is absolutely false. go ahead in london and whoa, i agree, i mean the, the purpose, the whole purpose of this, linguistic, i love this linguistic a source attempts to to, to somehow condemn bratia and portray, i put in as a madman. serve the one purpose of not, you know, i'm coming to the table and having a full discussion with russia because if we assume all, if we paint a full all, all. busy own, or a hostile country,

in our opinion as being, you know, a mad and irrational. there's no incentive to have any discussion, but what is lacking in this role? ukrainian, russian, this course is that the entire conflict in the ukraine is a small piece of a larger picture. it is not about the ukraine. we know that in 2014, ah, this conflict has been frozen after, as the annexation or all of crimea by russia. we know that this conflict was brewing for 8 years. but this a conflict is a part of a larger of larger pictures. i've said it is a, the picture is the us for germany is fading. the power of united states is fading. and we know that the new actors and the new a poet centers are managing as president of what we're putting right be sent during

the discussion club. and, and ukraine is used as a tool to clench the, the uni polo moment. that is long gone. the same applies to taiwan. so these flashing points in asia, which relates to taiwan and, and, and, and in eastern europe. ukraine are the flushing points where united states is trying to somehow provoke the major powers like russia and china to engage them in the continuous lea. a fighting a proxy will with allies in europe or in asia, and a, somehow by some time for the u. s. policy makers to figure out how they can prolong the a, don't forget the arms makers. okay. that that's a key element. and all of this here, one griff to replaces another graft afghanistan to ukraine,

here. and the boy should let me go back to you here. i mean, i'm very curious, you know, so is it worth losing russia to get ukraine and what ukraine are they getting? i mean, i find these, you know, these conferences about rebuilding ukraine, you know, 10 year plan and all that. they have no idea what they're talking about, what ukraine is going to be. you think the for regents that have joined russia, going to suddenly return? i don't go ahead in washington. well there's, there's always reconstruction conferences and you mentioned griff earlier. this is one another for road griffin. i mean, i remember, in bosnia they were doing reconstruction and a year you're talking about reconstruction a year before the war ended. how do you rebuild of things that can keep getting destroyed on a daily basis? that's insane. you can't plan for reconstruction until the war is over. and there's this, this particular war shows no sign of ending the least because western trenches. it could end to morrow. if washington, that's actually pulling the financial and political strings of kiev said ok enough,

but it won't the kit. so what do we even talking about? no, we did. the reconstruction conferences are just another money laundering scheme. this one, benefiting the n g o is instead of the weapons makers. but it's, it's, it's not deal, as i said, the west las russia years ago. they're not aware of this, but that will happen. and what they're trying to do here is they're following the playbook of a long dead polish rooster phobe, who imprinted his hatred of russia on right on u. s. foreign policy. and the, one of the clearest indictments of letting immigrants anywhere near delivers of power in washington as big since he claimed that russia cannot be an empire if it doesn't have ukraine, and therefore it follows that the u. s. the global hedge much must control ukraine to prevent it from happening. and that's exactly what the, what the washington political establishment has been obsessed with. with that written device. i mean,

i'm glad you brought that up because embedded in that is the assumption that russia wants to be an empire. these, i mean even the predicate it caves in on itself. because by projecting by, say, russia bob, to be an empire. no, it's they maintain american hegemony. that's what they're saying in that has nothing to do with russia. it's about maintaining american hegemony. go finish up before we go to the break. nobody obviously never calls didn't fusion ski smart. i just, i just said he was obsessed with hating russia, and that's exactly what this was motivated by. well, absolutely. let's let me go to gauge here gauge. i want to talk about last minute here, and then i want to talk about the 2nd half of the program and nothing about ukraine without ukraine. does that mean to you? well, i mean, it's a, it's a suicidal narrative. you asked me. i mean, i don't think the greenest went on their own at all. and if they're going to put it all in, i feel like the death tolls will go higher. that's why i think we should be pushing a piece right now to prevent that from happening and russia has been saying, hey,

let's sit down and talk other than the regions that have been annexed. but the referendum we can sit down and talk and create peace right now, but washington won't let it happen. the ukrainians are already basically enslaved by dc. let's be honest here. they're not a free democracy as they're claiming them. well, i mean, but i think they, they don't mind this, this kind of kept tibby and i will explain in the 2nd half of the program gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're gonna go to a short break. and after lunch break, we'll continue our discussion on europe and russia divided. stay with our team. ah ah, [000:00:00;00]

ah . move when i was showing wrong, i just don't hold any world to see about. the same becomes the advocate and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart and we choose to look for common ground.

ah, so welcome back to cross stock. were all things considered on peter lavelle trim and you were discussing europe and russia divided? i okay, go back to, i guess in london, it's very interesting that nothing of about ukraine without ukraine. they say that about poland. i think you remember that. okay. so it's kind of recycled phrase here . and it's a meaningless phrase here because there is no leverage that the ukrainians have whatsoever. the ukrainian military for all intensive purposes was destroyed during the summer. now it is a nato war against russia. so it's, it's very much a fig leaf here. and it's an excuse for washington and london, the most, russo phobic place on the planet not to sit down with the russians because as we

say already said in the program unprovoked in all that, you know, you can't sit down and negotiate with someone that provokes a war which of course, in the book has already talked about the 20th century example here. so this is an intentional strategy. i can't see how it could possibly work to their advantage. oh, but let me remember it's the europeans that will suffer the most for it. while that is so magnanimous from your trans atlantic friends in washington, go ahead. in london when i mean this is a fact the anglo sphere, i would say all the u. k. american block, or i would say the u. k. american establishment is using ukraine and people as a counselor in order to achieve its geopolitical objectives and goals. ah, but i mean, for, i can't go beyond the, the, the, the political, a risk between the west and, and, and russia. we have to bear in mind that this has

a tremendous i'm cultural consequences. i mean, i've spent last month in brussels and having a discussion with young policy makers. this has a huge impact how the social engineering of a future russo falls off, admitting ukrainian people who are still a believing in those lies that the russians are dependence and it will have an impact, you know, well beyond this conflict. if it, if the, if this ends. so i think that the social engineering, you know, it's, it's made by purpose because you, you will have on, on your board or whether it is in poland or other european countries. a huge influx of the ukrainian people who are living within the hour, animosity towards russia, so it will not end this year or next year. it will have, it will to have an impact on our next generations to come,

so that it will never be a peace in ukraine or in between ukraine or russia. i'm, i'm not sure what we're supposed to. i q in order to heal this one. but at this moment, from what i've observed in europe, is that the, this has a tremendous psychological and cultural impact on people in europe and in the way a lot in boise. i mean obviously the ukranian people are the sacrificial lamb and all this. but i would say europe is also okay, because it's the, again, you know, as you've already said, you know, the europe is, prosperity came from cheap russian energy. well, they don't want it, it, that's of their choice. you know, it, you know, blame the russians. know it's your sanctions that are doing and it's not what russians though, has done. it's the sanctions, the boyish and so on. the europe itself is a net loser and all of this. but i think that address is absolutely right to create

the, the, the problems that europe is going to experience in the, in the future is going to be blamed on russia. but it's actually policy makers in washington. well, so there's, there's couple of things where here, 1st of all, it's uniquely evil that the global empire is basically doing everything it can to poison the well for generations while claiming it wants peace. what address just described is literally poisoning the well making sure that, that this, this hatred of russia perseveres in ukrainians in europe for, for decades or centuries or even forever. secondly, had him on would claim the right to rule on the basis that it's when we provide some kind of prosperity order. neither of which is in evidence that the american empire is literally plunging europe into poverty and darkness. literally, for the sake of maintaining its primacy over the world, which is arguably yes,

fading and trying to blame russia for it and the european politicians. if not, the populace actually agrees. i mean, you have the german foreign minister saying, i don't care what my german voters think, i promise to support ukraine and i will, i will live up to that promise. so that's number 2. number 3. the whole, nothing about you create with ukraine is it's a, it's a phrase calculated to provoke thoughts about the munich agreement of $938.00 because in the minds of the washington establishment, every day is me unique. every enemy of hits. they're kind of stuck in this in perpetuity like a weird groundhog day. but the issue is that, i'm sorry, if you're paying for all of ukraine's bills, not just the military ones, but civilian ones. if you're literally propping up the regime, then you're responsible for them, not the other way round, and trying to say, oh, well, so lensky disagrees, is, is a way to doc responsibility. this is the way this is the ultimate device to project

accountability away from people who actually have it. and i would argue that among those people as victorian newland who's in charge of you. but the state department, and we all know what she thinks about the you. thanks that at 20, intercepted full conversation, which i can't repeat in a family friendly channel. so we all know what it is. ok, look at it, let me go to you and break here. one of the interesting things is that this fanfare of no negotiate. so let's give it find a decree. no negotiations with potent ok. i mean it, that's such a, it's a strategic error and maybe it's, he's just a said naga for washington because then from the russian side then, well, there's no one to call. there's no, there's no interlocutor. so they're going to continue what they're going to do. and the ground is getting hard, i can tell you it's cold now, the 1st real cold day in moscow, and it's only going to get colder. and the russian military knows how to fight in the winter. i. history has shown that ok, nato, well will find out,

i suppose. okay. but you know, by saying no negotiations, well, then rushes war aims will discontinue. i mean, no one wants to talk about it. i mean it is, it's full hardy, but this is what they want to do because they want a virtue signal. but again, how does that help ukrainians? how does it help you repeat and during the winter, go ahead, lucas does that all they would already. this is, this is purposely engineered and you know, the argument is what we can't trust and he's just not, he's going to go back and whatever he says he's offering piece. it's nonsense. well, if that were the case, if your cleanings are smart about it, they would sit down in that p stocks and then he would break them. but they know he wouldn't break them. so that's why they can't have that the stocks and we have to keep pushing for this fight that they cannot possibly win. and all of europe is going to suffer for work. and here in america, i'm already suffering for our gas prices are ridiculous. we're running on a diesel. what do we have to do with this work for special interests, obviously, and there you go. so d, c is pulling the strings again,

ukraine is already gone. you know, they're not free at all. if you ask me there, i guess, proxy war slave snake for the u. s. nato and the you. and, you know, i don't, this is going to end. well, it all, in fact, as the russians have mobilized here, comes the winter. now the gloves are off and after the terrorist attacks of the crimea branch after the assassination of their you do again. you know, how can the russians play, you know, nice anymore, they can't, and they have to do what's necessary to neutralize you crate. not destroy it and kill everyone but to neutralize it. make sure it doesn't become, this stays this proxy. what a fortune has my colleagues have mentioned. they have already implement. they've already basically condition to people to hate russians, even if this were to end tomorrow. unfortunately, and that's how these people engineered these conflicts for decades and forever, essentially. and you have this quite against the nation in london. you know, you hear this, me, him all the time. you know, you can't make it negotiations with the russians here all the time. okay. but you know, most people haven't heard about it in the west because immediate supply and,

but the mince processing of who didn't for fill their commitments to the mince process. it was the west. ok. i'm actually in fact if ukraine had fulfilled to minsk agreements, they would have been in net winner and all of this because they didn't do it. they're a net loser. go ahead in london. i absolutely agree with your pizza, but we also have to, ah, bear in mind of the very big, very beginning of this year. russia wanted a security guarantees from united states and from the west lodge. but it, this wasn't provided to russia, which means the, you know, this conflict was unavailable. you know, unavoidable from, from, from the western perspective. everything was, you know, going into that direction to, to somehow a provoke russia onto, to react to, to, to, to, to de meddling on, on, on the,

on his borders. so this goes back to what i said before the on or before the break that there with the russian government will neutralize you. it doesn't matter because you will have a contingent of people. graham, people with interest in poland or united kingdom, who grew up with a tricity towards russia. so it is engine, it, whether it will be, you know, government in exile in london. it, whether it will be a government in exile in poland. you will, has a ukrainian pro problem for the foreseeable future. so this, this doesn't look very well, because if you, if you talk to anyone in western europe, the people are afraid of the fact that their foreign policy and national interest has been hijacked by the u. green goals, so you, you can't have your, your legitimate national interest. these are the russia as a german, as a french person, or as a citizen of

a budget. because everything has been hijacked by the, by the ukraine course. and it has been imposed by the washington, d, c. and, and, and, and geopolitical lose like a friedman all labs, as you see. so i, it is, this is very frightening. it is very frightening because man, no country has, has its own legitimate interest at the moment. all these interests are not taking into consideration. and even when we see people who are protesting on the streets of, of western europe, they are being labeled by the mainstream price as a 5th column of the russian propaganda. so this is outrageous and, and this will cook, recreate it, wrist, a few trips between society and, and the under governments. yeah. well, you know, it will, i, i very much agree with you this generational thing is coming in because it's, it's social programming here. but at the end of the day, we can discuss it be almost out of time here, rush is going to be just fine without euro,

but europe is not going to be just fine without russia. and we'll get there. going to find that out the hard way because not just one hard winter may be far if hard winters ahead and who is going to be pay, who's going to make money off it, their patron and the u. s. and oil companies are a gentleman that's all the time we have want to thank my guess and watch it in break and in london. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember, cross top with ah 30 with with both both the models you need to do your book. nothing new. please deal

with a, with a, a, with us the personal number of years with

with ah, your headlines right now and i'll see you international as russia resumes, participation in the black sea grain deal off the ukraine gives the necessary written gower in teams. it will no longer use the corridor or full military purposes. the canadian online video platform rumbled for walks. it's french uses offer it rejects to balanced by paris to send it to russian media out. also ahead of this out a protections even set un trucks on fire in