home it belongs to you and no one knows how everything will turn out in the future of civilian casualties. here in done ad scans in the rest of the done at school republic continued to mount on a daily basis of the last 24 hours. at least 2 people have been killed. 2 elderly women, 2 people were injured. but as the day progresses, that number may still grow as ukrainian nationalist continues showing residential areas of the nest people's republic from on cause for. if archie, dun ask our correspondent roman casa rep, wrapping up this alice program here on ot he international from moscow. so good to have your company. thank you for sharing a time with us here. who will be back soon with? no one else seem wrong one. 03,

just don't hold me you world yet to safe out disdain. because the advocate and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground the news. hello and welcome to cross back. were all things considered? i'm peter of l, for most prior to february 24th. ukraine was just another eastern european country since then, the conflict and ukraine has created deep divisions all across europe and beyond.

russia in europe today virtually have no common ground. this may be the case for a very long time because the, the cross talking europe and russia divided. i'm joined by my guess, the bush mileage in washington. he's a blogger and calmness in brick. we have lucas gauge. he is a us mc veteran author and philosopher and in london we cross the real can santa, he is the founder of a consulting and a foreign affairs analyst settlement cross roles. and in fact, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate the boy sure, let me go to you 1st. we have the jury, the german president and trust fund meyer says at berlin and moscow are now opponents. he describes rushes, a military operation in ukraine as a watershed know by kind of got me thinking, because in the early, 2, thousands when we, when the, the war in afghanistan started, there was

a public opinion polls one some university. and they asked the afghans, does 911 mean anything to you? the date, 911, and like 98 percent of the people who get and said, nope, doesn't mean much to me at all. the reason why i'm bringing this up is that stein myer. again, with his kind of neo colonial attitude, the world must accept the west's date and what it can sitters to be watersheds. we have to the whole world has to run on their calendar. because i mean, if you're looking at ukraine, i think a lot of people and ukraine, and particularly in russia, would say, i think we had to go back to the clinton administration with nato expansion here. why am i bringing this up? because that we have a parallel ways we have different narratives, and when one narrative does not accept it, there is another alternative narrative to understanding something. we have a deadlock and that's what we have now with the west in russia. thoughts,

my friend go. absolutely. i mean, i'm on the records that the actual watershed was in 1999 when nato decided to expand and bomb yugoslavia, thereby obliterating any pretence that it actually cared about international law. and that's literally the time where it last, russia, for all intents and purposes, i mean, this is, this is all documented it's, it's a wealth, well documented hypothesis. so what we're seeing today are the consequences of this, of these actions that there, this is not something that you know just happened yesterday. i know that a lot of people in the west including psy meyer have the memories of squirrels, of, on amphetamine. but, you know, the world didn't start yesterday and choices have consequences. and i'm sorry, but as somebody who's from a country that got invaded by nazi germany in world war 2, for germans to say anything about, you know, opponents and this,

and then the other, especially after their own experience with russia over the past 2 centuries, is just too rich, i mean, you can, can you even make one of this stuff, you know, used to be that the germans had to go to stalingrad to freeze to death. and now they can just sit at home. and that's not because of russia, it's because they're all stupid policies. they built their entire economy on access to russian energy, and then they cut it off despite themselves. we'll look how well that's going for them. well, and the boys they can stay with you sir. didn't shield says well how i referred to him on this program when he was in moscow before the complex started. and they were talking about ethnic cleansing in the da boss. he laughed again. german laughing at ethnic cleansing, it's something that it said it is an unbecoming of a german liter here. let me go to lucas in the same vein here we, i look at, you know, responsible state craft in some articles in the american conservative. and they love to use this word, unprovoked, unprovoked. but this goes back to when

a boy was talking about, if you don't have to go too far to see that this was intentionally provoked. lucas . yes, i mean, these words are engineered. if you ask me, that's my opinion on this whole thing. they know opens gonna respond in order pushes buttons and the western media start with. he invaded, that's when they start that, and the most people thing, oh my god, he invaded unprovoked. why did he do this? is a madman, he's going to take all of you crate is going to take all of europe. we've heard these narratives before. so most people have no idea that the truth is, this is going on for a long time. as he mentioned earlier. and you know, the shelling and on bossed ethnic cleansing in the region which is being denied by the german people there. and here we go, is repeating the same wise again, that's unprovoked when the reality the miss agreements, the, the shelling and the people there that the cleansing, the, making it illegal to speak russian. i mean, that's, out of that not be ethnic cleansing, right? there's, well, these are all facts,

undisputed facts. so when the west is starting the narrative with the invaded for no reason of that he's a madman. they're lying to every one, an unfortunate europeans are going to suffer this winter because of these lies that their leaders are telling them the same lies has sent me to iraq and other regions in the middle east as well. with all my fellow marines, i think a fight in afghanistan, or whatever the case them that same wise against the saw it is the same script, different actors, that's what we're seeing here. but andrea, if we, if we can say, would be an unprovoked element here. well, if you assume that something is unprovoked, then you cannot negotiate because you promote you, you did this intentionally, you woke up in the morning and suddenly you want to invade a country, hear it because of the narrative here. you can even begin to think about negotiations because your net it is predicated on something that is absolutely false. go ahead in london and whoa, i agree, i mean the, the purpose, the whole purpose of this, linguistic. i love this linguistic um, no,

no. um. so, attempts to to, to somehow condemn bratia and portray i put in as a madman, serve the one purpose of not, you know, on coming to the table and having me full discussion with russia. because if we assume all, if we paint a full all, all over a hostile country, in our opinion as being you know, a mad and irrational, there's no incentive to have any discussion. but what is lacking in this role, ukrainian, russian, this course is the entire conflict and ukraine is a small piece of a larger picture. it is not about the ukraine. we know that in 2014 on this conflict has been frozen after now the annexation, or all of crimea by russia. we know that this conference was brewing for 8 years.

but this a conflict is a part of a larger of a larger picture. as i've said, it is a, the picture is that the r u. s. for germany is fading, the arm that the power of united states is fading. and we know that the new actors and new a power centers are managing us prisoner by the near putting right be sent during the by discussion club and, and ukraine. it's used as a tool to clinch the, the unit polo moment that is long gone. the same applies to taiwan. so at these flashing points in asia, which relates to taiwan and, and, and, and in eastern ukraine, or the flushing point, where the united states is trying to somehow provoke the major powers like russia and try enough to engage them in the continuous lea.

a fighting a proxy war with its allies in europe or in asia. and somehow by some time for the us policymakers to figure out how they can prolong the address already. don't, don't get the arms makers. ok, that's a key element. and all of this here, one gripped, replaces another graph, gattis and to ukraine, here. and the boy should let me go back to you here. i mean, i'm very curious, you know, so is it worth losing russia to get ukraine and what ukraine are they getting? i mean, i find these, you know, these conferences about rebuilding ukraine, you know, 10 year plan and all about. they have no idea what they're talking about, what ukraine is going to be. do you think the 4 regions that have joined russia are going to suddenly return? i don't go ahead and washington. well there's, there's always these reconstruction conferences and you mentioned griffith earlier . this is one another for ro, griffin. i mean, i remember, in bosnia they were doing reconstruction and you're talking about reconstruction

a year before the war ended. how do you rebuild the things that can, that keep getting destroyed on a daily basis? that's insane. you can't plan for reconstruction until the war is over. and there's this, this particular war shows no sign of ending the least because western in trenches it could end tomorrow. if washington that's actually pulling the financial and political strings of kiev said ok enough, but it won't the kit. so what are we even talking about? no, we did the reconstruction conference, is there just another money laundering scheme? this one benefiting the n g o is instead of the weapons makers, but aids it's, it's not the, as i said, the west las russia years ago. they're not aware of this, but that's what happened. and what they're trying to do here is they're following the playbook of a long dead polish rooster phobe, who imprinted his hatred of russia on right on u. s. foreign policy. and the, one of the clearest indictments of letting immigrants anywhere near delivers of

power in washington as big the fusion ski claimed that russia cannot be an empire if it doesn't have ukraine. and therefore it follows that the u. s. the global hedge much must control ukraine to prevent it from happening. and that's exactly what the, what the washington political establishment has been obsessed with. with that written device. i mean, i'm glad you brought it up because embedded in that is the assumption that russia wants to be an empire. i mean, even the predicate it caves in on itself. because by projecting by, say, russia bog, to be an empire. no, it's the we maintain american hegemony. that's what they're saying in that has nothing to do with russia. it's about maintaining american germany. go finish up before we go to the break. no. obviously i never calls back near fusion ski smart. i just, i just said he was obsessed with hating russia, and that's exactly what this was motivated by. well, absolutely. let's let me go to gauge here gauge. i want to talk about last minute

here, and then i want to talk about the 2nd half of the program. and nothing about ukraine without ukraine does not mean to you. well, i mean, it's a major suicidal derek. if you ask me, i don't think the greenest went on their own at all. and if they're going to put it all in, i feel like the, the deaf tolls will go higher. that's why i think we should be pushing a piece right now to prevent that from happening. and russia has been saying, hey, let's sit down and talk other than the regions that have been annexed. but the referendum we could sit down and talk and create peace, right? now, but washington won't let it happen. the ukrainians are already basically enslaved by dc. let's be honest here. they're not a free democracy as they're claiming that well, i mean, but i think they, they don't mind. this is kind of a kept empty and i will explain in the 2nd half of the problem gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break after lunch break. we'll continue our discussion on europe and russia divided. stay with our tea. ah

ah, with the balkan conflicts been simmering for some time or so that she was a sub scope whirlpool crane acquired a little bit more than enough. albanians demanded the cause of a subs changed con, license plates. in other words, they recognized conover. either she saw the road for the whole seaboard for the belgrade refuse because of a is serbia. so discriminating against serves is a slap in the face. a report from internal posterior was to bill that i think you know their for their with affidavit, the good in it. nice and really those need albano sima dom or i should all be go to know me. i'm a visual, serbian president alexander gucci hasn't ruled out the possibility that the west is

waiting for the right moment to strike the republic with her. oh that you're with with . oh, welcome back to cross stock. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing europe and russia divided. ah okay. it's go back to our gifts in london. it's very interesting that nothing about ukraine without ukraine base to say that about poland. i think you remember that.

okay, so it's kind of recycled phrase here, and it's a meaningless phrase here because there is no leverage that the ukrainians have whatsoever. the, the ukrainian military for all intensive purposes was destroyed during the summer. now it is a nato war against russia. so it's, it's very much a fig leaf here, and it's an excuse for washington and london, the most, russo phobic place on the planet not to sit down with the russians. because as we say already said in the program unprovoked in all that, you know, you can't sit down and negotiate with someone that provokes a war, which of course, we're in. the bush has already talked about the 20th century example here. so they, this is an intentional strategy. i can't see how it could possibly work to their advantage. oh, but let me remember it's the europeans that will suffer the most for it. well, that is so magnanimous from your trans atlantic friends in washington go head in london when i mean this is a fact the anglo sphere, i would say all the u. k. american block,

or i would say the u. k. american, the establishment is using ukraine in people as a counselor in order to achieve its geopolitical objectives and goals. ah, but i mean, for, i can't go beyond the, the, the, the political, a risk between the west and, and, and russia. we have to bear in mind that this has a tremendous i'm cultural consequences. i mean, i've spent last month in brussels and having a discussion with young policy makers. this has a huge impact how the social engineering of a future russo falls off, admitting ukrainian people who are still a believing in those lies that the russians are dependence and it will have an impact, you know, well beyond this conflict. if it, if the,

if this ends. so i think of the social engineering, you know, it's, it's made by purpose because you, you will have on, on your board or whether it is in poland or other european countries. a huge influx of the ukrainian people who are living within the out and the most of the, towards russia. so it will not end this year or next year. it will have, it will to have an impact on the next generations to come. so that it will never be a peace in ukraine or in between ukraine or russia. i'm, i'm not sure what we're supposed to a q in order to heal this one. but at this moment, from what i've observed in europe, is that the, this has a tremendous psychological and cultural impact on people in europe and in the way a lot in boise. i mean obviously the ukranian people are the sacrificial lamb and

all this. but i would say europe is also okay, because it's the, again, you know, as you've already said, you know, in europe is prosperity came from cheap russian energy. well, they don't want it, they, that's their choice. you know, it, you know, blame the russians. know it's your sanctions that are doing and it's not what russians though, has done. it's the sanctions. the boy said, so um that europe itself is a net loser and all of this. but i think that address is absolutely right. it create the, the, the problems that europe is going to experience in the, in the future is going to be blamed on russia. but it's actually policy makers in washington. well, so there's, there's couple of things where here, 1st of all, it's uniquely evil that the global empire is basically doing everything it can to poison the well for generations while claiming it wants peace. what address just described is literally poisoning the well making sure that, that this, this hatred of russia perseveres in ukrainians in europe for,

for decades or centuries or even forever. secondly, had him on would claim the right to rule on the basis that it's, we provide some kind of prosperity or order. neither of which is in evidence that the american empire is literally plunging europe into poverty and darkness. literally, for the sake of maintaining its primacy over the world, which is arguably yes, fading and trying to blame russia for it and the european politicians. if not, the populace actually agrees. i mean, you have the german foreign minister saying, i don't care what my german voters think, i promise to support ukraine and i will, i will live up to that promise. so that's number 2. number 3. the whole, nothing about your crew with ukraine is it's a, it's a phrase calculated to provoke thoughts about the munich agreement of $938.00 because in the minds of the washington establishment, every day is me unique. every enemy of hits. they're kind of stuck in this in

perpetuity like a weird groundhog day. but the issue is that, i'm sorry, if you're paying for all of ukraine's bills, not just the military ones, but civilian ones. if you're literally propping up the regime, then you're responsible for them, not the other way round, and trying to say, oh, well, so lensky disagrees, is, is a way to doc responsibility. this is the way this is the ultimate device to project accountability away from people who actually have it. and i would argue that among those people as victorian newland who's in charge of you. but the state department, and we all know what she thinks about the you. thanks that at 20, intercepted full conversation, which i can't repeat in a family friendly channel. so we all know what it is. ok, look at it, let me go to you and break here. one of the interesting things is that this fanfare of no negotiate. so let's get it, signed a degree know, negotiations with put in ok. i mean, it, that's such a, it's

a strategic error and maybe it's, he's just a sinatra for washington because then from the russian side then, well, there's no one to call. there's no, there's no interlocutor. so they're going to continue what they're going to do. and the ground is getting hard, i can tell you it's cold now 1st, real cold day in moscow, and it's only going to get colder. and the russian military knows how to fight in the winter. i. history has shown that ok, nato well will find out. i suppose. ok, but you know, by saying no negotiations. well then rushes war aim. so we'll just continue. i mean, no one wants to talk about it. i mean it is, it's full hardy, but this is what they want to do because they want a virtual signal. but again, how does that help ukrainians? how does it help you repeat and during the winter, go ahead, lucas doesn't at all. and i would already, this is, this is purposely engineered and you know, the argument is what we can't trust. and he's just not, he's going to go back and whatever. he says he's offering piece. it's nonsense.

well, if that were the case, if your cranium or smart about it, they would sit down on that p stocks and then he would break them, but they know he wouldn't break them. so that's why they can't have the piece talk . so we have to keep pushing for this fight that they cannot possibly win, and all of europe is going to suffer for work. and here in america already suffering, our gas prices are ridiculous, running on a diesel. what do we have to do with this work for special interests, obviously, and there you go. so d, c, pulling the strings again, ukraine is already gone. you know, they're not free at all. if you ask me there, i guess, proxy war slave snake for the u. s. nato and the you. and, you know, i don't, this is going to end. well, it all, in fact, us as the russians have mobilized here, comes the later. now the gloves are off, you know, after the terrorist attacks the criminal branch after the assassination of their to do again. you know, how can the russians play. ready nice anymore, they can't, and they have to do what's necessary to neutralize you create, not destroy it, and kill everyone but to neutralize it. make sure it doesn't become this or stay this proxy when a fortune, as my colleagues have mentioned,

they've already impulse, they've already basically conditioned the people to hate russians even if this were to end tomorrow. unfortunately. and that's how these people engineered these conflicts for decades. and forever, essentially, and you have this quite against ation in london. you know, you know, you hear this, me, him all the time. you know, you can't make it a negotiations with the russians here all the time. ok. but you know, most people haven't heard about it in the west because media supply and, but the mince process. so you know, who didn't go for fill their commitments to the mince process. it was the west. ok . i'm actually in fact if ukraine had fulfilled to minsk agreements, they would have been a net winner and all of this because they didn't do it. they're a net loser. go ahead in london. i absolutely agree with your pizza, but we also have to, ah, bear in mind of the very big, very beginning of this year. russia wanted a security guarantees from united states and from the west, a large but it,

this wasn't provided to russia, which means the, you know, this conflict was unavailable. you know, unavoidable from, from, from the western perspective. everything was, you know, going into that direction to, to somehow a provoke russia onto, to react to, to, to, to, to, to madeline on, on, on the, on his borders. so this goes back to what i said before the, on the before the break that with the russian government will neutralize ukraine. it doesn't matter because you will have a contingent of people, ukrainian people, whether it isn't poland, or united kingdom, who grow up with a tricity towards russia. so it is engine, it, whether it will be, you know, government in exile in london. it whether it will be a government in exile in poland, you will, has a ukrainian pro problem for that civil future. so this,

this doesn't look very well because if you, if you talk to anyone in western europe, the people are afraid of the fact that their foreign policy and national interest has been hijacked by the green goals. so you, you. * have your, your legitimate national interest. these are the russia as a german, as a french person, or as a citizen of a budget. because everything has been hijacked by the, by the ukraine course. and it has been imposed by the washington, d. c. and, and, and geopolitical lose like a friedman. all right. so i, it is, this is very frightening. it is very frightening because no country has, has its own legitimate interest at the moment. all these interests are not taking into consideration. and even when we see people who are protesting on the streets of western europe, they are being labeled by the mainstream price as

a 5th column of the russian propaganda. so this is outrageous and, and this will create a future between society and the under governments. yeah, well, you know, it will, i, i very much agree with you this generational thing this coming in because it's, it's social programming here. but at the end of the day we can discuss it. we're almost out of time here. russia is going to be just fine without europe, but europe is not going to be just fine without russia. and we'll get there. going to find that out the hard way because not just one hard winter, maybe 5 hard winter is ahead and who, who is going to be pay, who is going to make money off it. their patron in the us and oil companies are a gentleman that's all the time we have want to think, my guess and watch it in break and in london. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c you next time. remember, cross problems ah

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a, a your thought that lines are right now. and alpha international as russia resume. this participation in the black sea grain deal that with only off the ukraine, gave us the necessary written guarantees. it will not use that humanitarian corridor for military purposes. india that has no moral concerns about buying energy from russia, claiming the u. s. media is simply whipping up hysteria over the issue. that is as rush, it becomes the country's largest oil supply and also ahead, the canadian online video platform rumbled locks all of it. french users doctorate, rejects the balance by.