ah, hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered on peter level. western leads essentially promised to have a blank check to continue nato's proxy war against russia. businesses and consumers are now saying not so fast. the west believed russia would quickly collapse under the weight of sanctions. instead, it is the wes, particularly europe facing collapse. aah! to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guest here in moscow in the monroe. he is the founder of the center, a political strategic analysis strap poll. and we also have dmitri bob and she is a political analyst and editor at you know me internet media project. right? gentleman cross type rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want,

and i always appreciate it. i start out with d. m a here in moscow edema we see we see these 2 different trends that they, they were kind of blurry for the 1st 8 months, but now they're getting more and more clear. we have a leech that are still committed to this proxy war to the point of the reports of american specialist on the ground in care. we all know what that means. i finland may take on the new killer option of nato, but then you have the consumer saying, you know, we can take the inflation, which we're losing our businesses. productivity is going down as the americans go to their pulse for the midterm elections. it's not even the top 20 issues ukraine, so we have, we have a real divergence of a lead agenda and everybody else thought steamer is absolutely true. and the what is specialist on an absurd is the fact that the situation of the battle role in your brain is somehow connected to american elections. i mean, isn't that absurd?

thousands of people die. you know, ancient sieges had been destroyed depending on the election schedule in the united states. you know, obviously is this ukrainian counter offensive was to this election, mid term elections. the aim is to keep tromp and trumpets all the power to keep mr. by the, you know, so she's in power and this is it, and i'm sure it in itself, but also just how mass you, the western society has become, will remember their protests in west germany in the, in the u. k. now finland says that it may take nuclear weapons to it's 30 colon has been asking for nuclear weapons for several years. you know, consecutive forties, governments have been saying want american, you know, out there g. so they,

they an average european know, or an average would be an, is not feeling any pain until there is a price on gas or until there are no jobs. people are not thinking about their long term security interests. and maybe it is to go to law that this winter. now that review sheet for all these embargo sanctions and other things just want to reach is going to sheet than ever to be. and it was, these people not feel anything until they're basically. so that's just a very said develop a, we've already mentioned it, you know, the except a nickel or option. we have the, the pentagon through leaks to their favorites in the press are talking about american specialists on the ground inspection inspections after 10 months of all of

this military. and then we need to find out where it's going. i mean, the fact that they don't know where going is going to prove my back, that they say they need inspectors here. and then on top of it, we go into bizarre thinking. the bizarre world of these need to release is, are talking about him. a marshall plan to reconstruct ukraine, and my question is, what are you crane? are you talking about going into the, into the absurd what these people are talking about. and they want to spend somebody else's money, their taxpayers money. go ahead. exactly. yeah, of course. and 1st it's a lie because for instance, the u. s. army just delivered the number onto aircraft system. so i can't believe that the, the people who are going to manage the system are do korean, the army. because it's, it's about 6 months. it's about one year to get to get the formation to, to, to use this weapon. so, since the beginning in the ukraine and stuff,

even an insider green army, there is a, not only a people for trainings or economy, but to fight with the green army. so it's a lie during that, it's a just going to inspect some seeing it. of course, there is some us soldiers on the ukrainian soul, and of course, it's a war against a nato against russia. as a perfectly said, i under ukrainian territory, that was athens and the, you know, i like the, the comparison with the cuba crisis in a 62. why? because it ended, it was a compromise. and in my opinion, oh yeah, of course, because everybody, everybody remembers the, you see it, you know, as to what that creates, the nuclear missiles are from cuba, but in the same times, the u. s. as to when i create a nuclear missile in turkey, jupiter missiles,

so in my opinion, it could be a good option to find a come from is not between q on, must go because give a consent was, but it was ition between moscow and washington. and as you said, as long as they would have immediately when they would have some consequences on the political life inside united states, france, germany. so as a we started to change the to change the politics. why? because kiff and water will stay, no, we're on the ukraine. is it easier and easier? uh, no. for the west i was, it was on the us middest this morning, or maybe in the new york times or in the west. we don't, i don't remember, but just say that a kid could evacuate 3000000 people. if the electricity, the power is not a black male, well, yes, but the question is, where, where they're going to go?

and in my opinion, it will be 3 additional ukrainian migrants on the european source, which is already a completely or a there's a solution to this is comb negotiations. yes. i know. well you guys playing that on this program, you exactly is absolutely right. i want to make it very clear, the fact that dina savvy and i are talking right now was because they were a sober mines in 1962 to resolve a crisis. but demon, let me go back to you. the only thing the, the west wants to do under the leadership of the united states. it's a supplicant u k b. they only have one direction and that's called elation. and you know what the meant? the russians meet the heads escalation every single time. well indeed, if we compare the lead, so 196-2022,

the comparison is not the advantage of today's leads and that's what our foreign minister said. you are all set actually, when people say in the west, the power of his anti america, just look how many good things she had to say about the united states over the past and about our corporation during the world war 2. basically, kennedy and not only a lawyer, you know, the tension. also, the american missiles were taken out of turkey. secretly, people have known about it only later, so that elite was responsible. it could control information. and now the belligerence control from each. i mean, if by any chance the united states starts to withdraw troops from eastern europe, you can imagine what kind of scandal there will be in the press in the united states and the, the, you, they call it freedom of the press, freedom for their press. freedom for they. right. right. and you're absolutely

right. you know, blair called black me, i mean, these people never tell the full story. russia started to bomb the infrastructure or big pregnancy just after that one of the crimean breach, after them, terrorist act, you know, russia style a response. so people should have thought about it before doing that, you know, the ukrainian and they are western help us. they bring in special services and their west campus should have given it to thought. and also you remember their celebration on the 1st day of that, against the graeme. you reach all we hit the bridge. oh, now the war is over. i. and also, unfortunately, the reason for this conference and the reason for the huge, huge casual just now is that the west never to the was, or the russian leadership or other portion or countries at the face value. whenever

we didn't set, we're going to respond. the response was, i'm going to do it. you can't. well, you know, put in and the russian government in the end of 2021 they said stop, you know, return to the 1997 when it's getting dangerous. oh, this is blackmail. this is not serious, additional data like wouldn't says, we don't want to the expansion of data because it's getting dangerous or he doesn't mean that he wants to rebuild the soviet union. and the same story was with the same story, was with all the previous wars that tonight the states and the basically made not only possible but in that. and in this situation that you know, words lose their meaning. the same, the same about these training centers and the american specialists in ukraine, a chuckle, they called it a training center, but in fact, it was becoming something suspicious. looking like a naval base in the ukraine,

right? they just gave it a different name. so these people lie and they expect they are opponents to lie in the st. james, you know, the demon, let me go back. exactly. exactly the, the dimension the, you know, like afghanistan in iraq, you know, in libby and all that. but those countries are nice and find before they're destroyed by the western russia is a very different case. russia knows exactly what's going on over. you train every single square centimeter of it. they know where these will digital truths are, is basically what the west is doing. is putting a target on the back of their own troops, just like zalinski is willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of his own soldiers in a few. well, after 2 years, the more the, the lack of any kind of moral responsibility from coming from the west is astounding. sadly, yes, of course. then they even don't care about it. but i would like to insist on the, on the question, if you will owe me of the,

of the good were of communication or controlling the formation. if you look at what happened to were all t in france, are they managed to block on you to go china, they manage to look on odyssey, which, which is we're supposed to be an antenna to china. they managed to block a rumble. and the reason is, 1st, of course, continuing laying on the, on the what happened in ukraine, but they were afraid by social unrest. we're going to happen in france because of the crisis. they created himself. and if you remember doing your 0 jacket in 2018, which channel was supported by other people in the street? it was all t. so i, it's, so it's a war not only against a russia, and though you korean people, but it's organ, its own population and don't want to see again or t a going out on the shows it easy and are being applauded by your, by your yellow jacket that is, up on the 4 years ago. so it wasn't fussing i would,

i would like to run the line and be more unix primary. i got a hard break and after that hard break will continue our discussion on some brilliant stay with archy. ah oh, the united states in many western countries in title of irrationality. and i basically called what the u. s. is the u. s. position visa be sanctioned as a kind of mania. they keep repeating the same actions, and i think they're doing this because they want to show that they still rule the world. but in fact, every, especially against russia, every sanction they have imposed, has shown as on the line. how much they don't room ah

ah, they only a little gladto share that get what is the best time to actually go about them. this is on a vocal with a lady named who didn't really know what i see. school of a car wasn't report backwards, but some claim your family members can report card order the status of their roughly probably a conditional krinski part of it, which it said to jeff. so i knew the mean you to when you, that you don't can be coma. listen, go and be a communist. somebody empty your community. that they've got a left, you know, it was all like it's supposed to start out. they can affect it door only out of them. so i do need it with us. that's clear. but. but that was the routing the spoken. i mean, you're right. nobody for you with

someone because of my seat, not with the reason i would show crappy so much, but either way you can i love chris was it was the case then you billed us over for you will that they should receive a notice to ship from that were still a, a a well across stock were all things are considered non parallel. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah, okay, connecting survey also here in moscow with him and i, you want to make a 2nd point for anyone to be going into the break, read about what,

what happens in ukraine. and the point is, if you look at what the west equipment delivering by the west to ukraine is saw, you know, it's very, it's not adapted to, to the war. so what you say to the, what they're going to, we are going to see in the, in the winter, it's only a will armada i cause we're all, no, no use. and i look at the, on the, on the videos from, from, from jeff, actually, the, i soon older v a, b, it's, so it's a radio, it's a radio. it's no, no, yes, no museum. yeah, it's a museum. it's no use. so it's exactly what you said that they sent some all the equipment to make. do you current army, still fighting against russia, even if everybody perfectly know that it won't help? and you know, let's talk about chris on. even if,

if it takes takes cason. what we changed for instant forgive, for although po infrastructure we are going to be completely destroy, it won't change anything. and sooner or later russia will go back, take back caisson, take the saw, and that's all. but for the west, in my opinion, the last world target is to kill the maximum of russian soldiers. is the only a logical aim for the west because economically, as you said, it didn't work. russia is a not isolated in the world. on the contrary is a maybe one of the leader of the newer to pull our word. so the last a is to kill the maximum of foolish and saudi us on the field. you know, exactly. i agree with you. let me go to demon right now, but everything we've seen in this comes like, you know, there's been a lot of frustration for people watching as complex. like,

why is it taking so long for the russians or bog down? they have no ammunition. they have low morality, absolute actually it's just the opposite. this has been a very slow process, not to destroy infrastructure, making sure the country can recover and demur, which really goes into another level of absurdity here. ok, so we hear from the pentagon from joe biden chic solomon, all the rest of these clowns here, you know, as long as it takes as long as it, whatever it takes, meaning no negotiation, so that signals to russia. well, these people don't want to talk. we go and you mentioned that you didn't, you said at the end of last year, i will tell you the exact date, december 17th, when the 2 demands, when one from russia went to the nato and to washington about russia security and for so if nobody wants to negotiate in the west, russia will unilaterally achieve its security demands. and because the west

does not want to negotiate, rush will do it by itself. we've already seen what it will do since of every $24.00 and it will just continue to do it. and the pain dial has only been darted turner demon. oh, yes, this week or president, would you say that actually this a collision with west, with naval, wasn't it? it had to happen. so it's good that it happened on our church and not at the moment when the west would be prepared. you know, the problem with the previous wars that their west waste was that they were all stopped by the west at the moment which the west. so as an opportune one, you know, like 2003 against iraq, and they all had tragic consequences. so indeed, and we managed to prevent something very bad from happening,

even though what happened was also bad. but also also, i don't see carl that an bo, this war arc, and now weston blanche, western interests, russian army. even if we lose some soldiers, is going to have an experience. so i can natal ops. so in the next 10 or 15 years, until nato completely read use, it's arsenault. it will not at that. and don't tell me that nato did not plan to pressure russia if not, but that in the next few years. otherwise, why would they need, why won't they need georgia? the my, you bring up such a good point and it's something that i have talked about one on one in the recent past. is it the outcome? because there's no need to lock in the west. no responsible adult in the room to talk to certainly not zalinski and his gang a bite out to lunch. you know, this is a family television program,

so he's out for lunch. and i have reflected on this rush, it's not going to do this again 5 years or 10 years. he wants an answer and wants to security answer. and since nobody in the west is responsible, russian will do it all by itself irrespective of the sanctions and all the labeling and cancelling and all the other nonsense they do. because basically what they stamps a printing press, old weapons in propaganda. zagging. yeah, exactly. and you know that the problem for the west, it more there are witching to go to negotiate with russia less that we, we live there will stay away from ukraine. because if you're a member of 1st or war emma a fresher, in february of 2022, it was about 30 a 1000 to square kilometers. it was a. yeah. and no them are already taken.

it's about under under 10000 square meters. and the next step, because in my opinion of the next radical step for russian army, it's to take odessa. so more the words will wait less the return we learn, we're willing to get some territories. you know, the any. i think if we can be kind of counter intuitive about the, the timeline you, one of my favorite questions over the last few months is who's got the clock. who's got the time rush, he's got both. okay. both the clocks and the time because of the, the way it's pursued this conflict, very methodically, slowly, odessa, a car. cough, but this asked, could it be possibly january february of next year and with the price of energy, low productivity in europe. i, i personally think the headlines are going to go to economic collapse in the west and now what is happening on the ukrainian battlefront?

would i write to something, for instance, russia decided to take some, a economy co program for instance, for the planes. it's a 4 years plans. it's a foils planner to, to build his own plans with m. s 21 was a stupid under. so it's means that russia don't, doesn't plan to, to stop do inter sanctions, for instance, about plants for years. so really is ready as already plans are the sanctions will go on to you maybe a full 5 years in a sanctions. a generational thing, i mean, you know, you know, you need like a 10 year calendar 20 year. you're not a yearly calendar for that. you want to jump in? yeah, i know that the reason why right to expand our interest in your credit was because of the time or submit your grade did not have

a long range me so. so the initial idea was to push them away for all of us go to a distance where they will not be able to see the seat anymore. let me remind our viewers that brilliant forces continue to bump bon yes, almost daily, you know, would ask for that. all the, the region is in the hands. busy or it's, it's intense and rough groups now, so it's protected by then. yes, continues to suffer. and before american steps, one of these find mark me sounds which can hit to the distance. all 3, conduct the one with a sometimes more if you will, if you use another kind of be sounds yes, in order to protect the security of the people there, we decided to expand that their g a while growth explained it very precisely as well. so just let me just remind of your sentence is not diplomacy. sanctions is a fall. and we have been accustomed to this more and the reason why the west is

going to lose the sanction is because they have an old fashioned view. they are a new meat. they think that russia is still some kind of a soviet conservative society where diplomats can get for and made goods for chaps . you know, i remember how much attention they paid to that story. they expect to be all right . all right, so we're just that they are all 20 oligarchs to reach, which is not the case, which has not been the case for many years. so ok if sanctions is war and their intelligence is 2030 years out of date it. and when you have an outdated, it is just not going to wind the sections simply because you don't you underestimate your enemy a true under estimate. i think with them also underestimate a is the, the,

the strength and vitality of the european union in the strength and vitality of nato. because both are both are on the menu right now. it was the last to put it on the menu. ok. rush it in, force this to weston, the outcome that is positive for russia getting insecurity guarantees means the end of nato, which i would definitely applaud. and i don't think the european union will sign come out in the same form that it is right now because it is failing, it's failing, and security is failing and prosperity, those are the 2 pillars of the european union. and they've lost all go ahead. yeah . ok, yes, the federal it that the underestimate the russian economy. you said i remember you . so when we were in some pit as boot, you said that the, the said it's only 3 percent of the of the g d p. but it's already 3 percent. it's very, very important, 3 percent in the and concerning frames. for instance, agriculture,

energy fertilizes. it's a, it's one of the main or were sometimes a leader in a gas in oil. so you can consider that you can put sanctions and start against russia as they did against serbia 20 years ago. it's completely different, but they believe their own lives. is the can cause you used to say there was a war start when the politician into, to the, on the list as a sub believe was written in the newspaper. so it's exactly what happens in the beginning of this crisis. the believe the all lies about the router originally economics, about the russian army and what we observe notes are interesting about the mobilization of ocean mobilization there they'll all thing oh, look at oh, the counter, but i know 300000 people, but at least they did it in about 21 months and no, and it's so it varies from message to the push i say,

send to everybody in europe. i think i've been here run out of time. absolutely fascinating discussion with both of you want to think. well, my guess here in moscow, i think our viewers are watching us here in our tc an exam. remember rock rolls. ah, ah, a with while we have a chart to make, you know, i'm not only do you care about me if you care about the play. i wish somebody could just tell me why they're lynching beating poverty,

why supremacy is disgusting. and the people in mississippi voted on a fly, and 65 percent of the people voted to keep the current flag. our purpose is to fan a good name and get better help because of these monuments that you see everywhere or not. they're not monuments to consider their monuments to the soldiers, to if we're going to be offended by everything, every negative part of our history, we have to get rid of everything a the united states in many western countries, the title of irrationality. and i basically called what the u. s. is, you know, the u. s. position will be sanctioned as a kind of mania. they keep repeating the same actions and i think they're doing this because they want to show that they still rule the world. but in fact, every,

especially against russia, every sanction they have imposed, has shown as underlined how much they don't a ah, lengthening ties as marcia becomes believe, talk oil supply. india is foreign minister said to visit moscow to further bilateral relations with the u. s. midterm elections looming po for just trust and election integrity has plummeted. often both sides accused each other of trying to fill victory. plus the as western countries push to use more electric cars, the africans are the ones doing the heavy lifting technique. those vehicles running on people in the democratic republic of the congo se then miners are being exploited by the develop. well.