[000:00:00;00] ah, ah ah, the more full or show you the most all who are so for is in the west, russia is the aggression. no good for answer much about it. i mean, it wouldn't do too much, you should. so what i see, we have any quality for russians can all we gotta do is just feed them over the head and just tell them the right way to live there is going to do. yeah, just a little bit with

the phone number. that's the list with the white glove, with the new sure. with our ceiling at the washer. who works with the washer to with when i was showing wrong when i just don't know, i mean you have to figure out the thing becomes the advocate and engagement. it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart,

we choose to look for common ground. the me with the hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered. i'm peter live. all the conflict in ukraine is turned into a test of wills and endurance. and as such, escalation is part of the couch with this is what makes this complex so dangerous when nato escalates. russia reacts accordingly. and we know now american boots are on the ground. what could go wrong with the cross talking the escalation dial. i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he's

a former c. i a analyst in new york. we have daniel as our he is a journalist and author of 3 books on the us constitution. and in paris we cross the sean brick wall. he is a political commentator or a gentleman. cross are girls in effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate re let me go to you 1st in raleigh. we have an admission from the pentagon that indeed american boots are on the got on the ground in the form of inspectors. what 910 months and to start looking at all of the vast arms being sent there to start looking around. like are they actually going where they're supposed to go? because we have authorities in finland and denmark thing otherwise, which of course we fully expected. but more important story is about the diplomatic front, so called diplomatic, it is obviously being leak by the intelligence community that they are kind of putting a little pressure on the landscape to be a little bit more flexible on diplomacy,

but not to end the war. actually to keep the war going on, because the problem is, is that american european allies are getting to say, we really didn't exactly sign up to this. ok, there's a lot going on here. i know the mid terms are sucking the oxygen out of the room here. but you know, this is very, very important here because when the mid term is over, this complex is still going to be going on re thoughts. well, the mid terms, of course, are today. i see the admission that there are inspectors trying to make sure that those weapons that were sending to ukraine not falling into the wrong hands. i see that as a political ploy. it's a big issue here, united states, what's happening all a billions of dollars tax dollars that we're spending on weapons to ukraine. so we have a kind of political thing here. i don't think it makes much difference whether we acknowledge publicly that there are troops on the ground or whether we

leave it to people who, who have been saying that all along. now the real real question here is is sullivan and the other is trying to persuade ukraine that you know, it's time to deal. no one kind of watches, poaching all the way through. i. that was my job back every day. ok. i watched the whole 3 and a half hours that die. why do i mention it? because there's an offer him to teen himself suggests. i don't want to misquote him, so i'm just going to read 2 sentences ready at the esa. i guess it can be an apple of discord or it can be a symbol of finding some kind of solution to everything that is happening now. it's not a question of russia. we've said many times already negotiate, but i recently mentioned this publicly in the,

in the kremlin. and but the leaders have the key review and that the site is not to continue. negotiations is true that the final or because it belongs to those who implement the policy in washington, it is very easy for them to solve this problem, to send the appropriate signals to kia that they should change their position and seek a peaceful solution. now, how much of an op ramp can do, you need the size that the russians have stopped replied, yes. would they be willing to say, all right, well, make it into a city like 3, yes after the war or maybe they would. why don't you try it? why does the mainstream pressed even mention this little hint that poochie would be ready to deal? if the esa was one of the apples of trust rather than apples of discord in daniel? i'm glad that ray has brought this up here because it's, it's almost to the point of absurd where you constantly read in the media. what is

the kremlin up to what is put in thinking? actually, it's very easy to find out what he's thinking. he says a lot of things, it's recorded the kremlin website in english. you go to task dot com. all of these features here rains. absolutely right. these, these are not things hard to find out. but daniel, what is going on with nothing about ukraine without ukraine? ok, i mean, it seems to me, the administration is really boxed itself in because it does what it needs an off ramp, but it's already committed itself to the zalinski regime. and of course the gang around zelinski want this to last as long as possible. so the griff last as long as possible. afghan i said it was, you know, a year ago and now it's ukraine. go ahead daniel. well, i mean, 1st of all, wars have a tendency to escalate. i mean, that is a war is a, is a tear in the fabric of legality. and once that care occurs, there's

a tendency for the chair to get bigger and bigger. so. so yeah, i mean, so the administration is making various noises about an off ramp, but the administration wants to keep the war going because it thinks it has potent box, then it thinks it has the military upper hand. it wants to preface advantage to the, to the maximum. it thinks it can make russia squeal in the sense. and so therefore, was to keep on going. and russia sort of sees the, feels the same way. it feels that solidarity in the west has started to crack due to the economic breakdown that it can. it can wait long enough until the, until nato is really, you know, riven by serious conflicts. and then it will be able to press its advantage. so the war will keep going, it will keep intensifying, it'll keep escalating,

and the great danger is that it turns into another 1914. and that is a significant risk. you know, you tell him parents. i mean, i said in my introduction, this is a, a test of wills and endurance. and now i've taken on board with daniel house to say, i know that he's presenting a certain interpretation of how the conflict is proceeding. i completely categorically, disagree with it. i rush, it does have the upper hand here. i don't see how ukraine is winning. but you know, who is, who can tell you who is really losing and it's europe that is losing here. the solidarity in europe is beginning to, to crack their cracks all over the place right now. and that's why i think the administration intentionally league, you know, that they're looking for some kind of venue and a way forward for negotiation not to end the conflict, but to make sure the european stay in line thought. go ahead. oh yes you, you started basing what could go home,

but everything has gone along since the beginning. they were going to crush the russian economy. they have not succeeded. now, the african american collapsing did not want to admit that this is a consequence of this in power. the consequence of the sanctions. i mean the, the, germany's, when her companies are leaving for the united states. and you know, she has been begging to beijing and he said doctor, by daemon, ice people in the gains in his own county for doing that. i mean, i don't know what they're supposed to do. i mean, it's a catastrophe in europe. and of course, if it's too that if you will, but the problem isn't indeed i am surprised myself by the will of the clean wants to fight and to die both both of their county that a down are going to get back there. he lay there very unlikely to get back and be, well, they're not wanted at all way. would they do that that they found surprising. now on the ocean side, i am fairly optimistic, but you must realize that they have not been able to liberate,

to make sure that done, this is not bound. i mean, they are bombs on done as every day. and they have only about the last night been able to take all of the, the less airports with their own conclusions 2015. so you know, the progress of the russians is so, and so, so i wouldn't be too optimistic. and if there was a serious peace over her, i would consider it if i was put in that and not put in. but of course there is no committee. there is no upcoming serious piece of her because it ins key still wants to get back. you can in the, the boundaries of 1991, which means including creamier and after ok now for expelling 800000 occupied hush and occupy years in creamy there. it could be clearly as will be, you know, they, they say it will be like the, they did the, and, you know, the she did, and after the war, which i found, you know, was, may be understandable at that time. it's still an injustice and the well, i mean it may sound this

a deadline was never part of germany. ok. crimea was part of russia before the united states even became a country if it was okay, it's even worse. but i mean, even, even that i found, you know, hello in jasmine that was after the war and it did, they didn't know that, but they're saying you're down you, i don't know how sions are hiding, came after 24. didn't know what exactly, but anyway they want ethnic cleansing. so it's very a symmetric or the russians only was i think that's legitimate to protect the hutchins were because of accident of history actually because of given his decision . good educational sewage in ranking for you. okay. let me, let me go, go again. we're gonna right here in raleigh. i mean, do you think that anyone in the administration actually is beginning to have 2nd thoughts about this? because the goal is to weaken. russia has nothing to do with ukraine re well, it does have to do is what the nail kind to running things in washington watch. now, will they wake up?

i think today will be the proof in the pudding. republicans already hinted they're going to be a little boy, assessable about this. and i look very carefully at whether more arms are slated for ukraine craters already, ship houston arms just a matter of can they use them as also a matter of whether the u. s. will stop where it is now, or what the nail kinds are able to persuade the defense department to give a longer range, still longer range missiles to ukraine. or that cannot be ruled out foolish as it is. as for the military situation, you know, i don't know, i don't know what's going to happen. but i do know that 300000 reserves are a quarter of them already in, in ukraine, from russia. i know from being a military, well, be an army intelligence office. sure. that the 1st thing you look at is the

estimate of the situation and how enemy they are. what kinds of weaponry they have, what's the weather going to be like? what's the terrain like, whoa, the other thing is locks ok. not bagels, unlocked, but lines of communication. and i need you to hold that thought. we're going to go to a short break and asked about short break. we'll continue our discussion on the escalation dial. stay with the oh, nice the russian states never. i've gone in the northland scheme again. i'll send the 55 a little bit. okay, so i need to did you when else calls go about this evening? i will ban in the european union. the

kremlin. ca, yep, machine. the state aren't russia for date and r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with me. ah

ah. the welcome to cross stock or all things are considered. i'm funeral about remind you we're discussing the escalation dial me go back to daniel and new york. the cynic in me. it makes me think that because i've asked this question a number of times in this program who's got the clocks and who's got the time. and almost every single guess i've had on this program and said the same thing to me, russia has both the clocks and the time. and as winter approaches here, now i think everyone is fully expecting that there'll be another ukrainian offense . and then they'll be a russian offensive as well,

so that we could get some kind of movement on the battlefield. we have to remind our viewers that there was a partial mobilization of 300000 troops from the russian side. so that goes into the mix here. but as the economic numbers come out of europe, daniel, it really is kind of a test of endurance here. russia is coming out of her. it was very short, but a very sharp recession rush is coming out a bit. growth is being expected next year. but you can't say that about the west, particularly in europe, where it looks like it's going to go into a deep and rather long recession. so it's a game of endurance daniel. all wars are games of endurance. i mean, i mean the u. s. civil war was a game of endurance. it was full of been over by christmas and 861 and lasted 3. you know, 2 and a half more years, 3 and a half more years. so i'm, so, i mean, so all wars are involved this, and in this case this war is dragging on, you know,

just longer and longer. you know, it's, i think it's an empty argument as to whether, you know, who has the upper hand russia, ukraine. i think that the both are, are arming themselves more and more heavily for digging him for a, a longer and more intense fight. but that's what so dangerous. i mean that is what's pushing the escalation. i agree, the economy of the west is dreadful shape. and especially for a country like germany, it's facing a huge crunch, but so is italy. so is the u. k. so as france and so as america, so you know, so, so we'll see who for support 1st. but the, but the, you know, all it takes is one element of missile to land either in russia itself or, and, you know, or in poland or romania for this thing to spread like wildfire. and i think that is that chance is growing. well daniel,

i mean the polls want greater american presence in poland. ok. i mean they want to escalate, they want to as like, and then you know, finland bound itself in the very odd situation or are they going to take the new killer option or not? and then the president piddling kind of moved as well. everyone feathers. no, we didn't say that. i agree with you that held in parents. i mean again, if we're going to look at the taste, a test of endurance. well, over a course of a few days, the, the, the russians took out about half of ukraine's electricity grid. there's nothing to stop them to do the rest of the 50 percent over 2 or 3 days. ok. and i think that that's, that was obviously, as a such being said, now for those that, you know, say this is in humane. yes, war is inhumane, but electricity has dual purpose. this is a conflict here. that's why i look at this, you know, is it a rather even bomb bomb? a battlefield here? i don't see it at all. i see the escalation and the in the pain dial can be turned

up very, very high against the ukrainians. and that's what i'm i, that's why i think like jake's element is beginning to realize they've boxed themselves into a corner of the russians are not in the corner at all. okay. i mean, who they going to talk to? they did, there is, and then he doesn't want to talk a bite and doesn't want to talk. so the russians are going to continue with their objectives. go ahead in paris is about, you mean in, in humane? i remember that the 1991. i was working american university or as a physicist and my colleagues were a happy to see the whole infrastructure affecting these total. and that's had table consequence for the civilian population. and then later was the embargo, hundreds of thousands of that's at her. i mean, i know, i mean, as she battled ukrainians, but they don't feel bad for the americans who are, you know, complaining about that. and of course, those people are not conservative as liberal democrats, et cetera in the what they wanted to see that indeed that's a way for us to win. because of course,

if they were to january and then take off the whole of electric infrastructure, he knew kane, what are they going to do it even though he know what i mean? they have to say. and i think that's the reason the way in the the americans are saying, well, at least pretend that you want to make negotiation, which is of course, and those start up. but that may be what they try to do. and of you see my cause, why not leg gothic only us? it that we need to have negotiations again, obviously shows by going to be busying his pain to you know, her more links with her shown daily, little chain. i didn't succeed a will, but of you saying you have these cut up? i mean there are pont in your hobbies, collapsing western europe, cuz you have these genetics in the baltic state and in poland they been nothing. and then of course you can do that. they don't know, but even eastern europe is not the genus. i mean, survey care,

hungary certainly bulgaria are not all fanatically on vacation. so i think that's fund is going to collapse 1st. the us need to have better, shall you bring up a really good point. i going hang on, hang on here, i just brings up a very good point. you re, if there is a collapse of support in europe. does that were you that these heart heads in washington in london would escalate to keep that coalition of the willing to go? that's what i'm scared about because obviously there's this conflict. it's very, i disliked in europe because of the economic pain. but it's the, it's the americans, it wanted this to happen. they have to find a balance here. that's what i'm afraid of. i'm agreeing with daniel on this point. go ahead re, i agree as well. i mean, europe is a shambles. the real question is, will the germans finally after the 77 years now enough to say no, no, no, no,

no, no. well, did their program to now they can't, they can't. i'm sorry. go ahead. well, what, when their industry falls apart when they start freezing during this winter, and when they are told, because this is factual, that no stream 2 and one have been sabotaged by the united states who else. and then i think there's a chance that they will not i, those they did in 1933 when a good guys, one of the majority could stand up there on to date. i think. and i've been saying this for a long time, but this time i might be true. they may be up to that when they start ration did that. that's really big. what i was talking about before in the military situation is you look at a map, ok, and you say as dancers, russia, the only way russia could lowe's, is it nuclear weapons were employed. russia doesn't need to do that, which is said so. so the question is,

why is the u. s. regime this nucleus as specter and accusing protein falsely of threatening to use tactical nuclear weapons? he has not done so. i worry about why the us is saying that he has done so. yeah, we cause daniel beside that is talking about nuclear weapons, is the side that is losing. that's what makes this all so very scary. daniel. it is very scary. i quite agree. i mean, that actually is re, as re brought up. i mean, the big issue is nordstrom, i mean, they know who destroyed north string. it's been 6 weeks, and they, you know, at that time they have no idea it daniel, that goes into the file of, i guess, will never know. ok. i mean, do you notice that have you noticed these kind of these it is, is, i guess will really never know, keep going that way. but i think everyone,

everyone does know, yeah. and germany and in germany, you know, the germans, you know, as sooner or later, they know they will, they will admit the true and, and once they do, it's a whole new ball game. i mean, once they. 2 realize that no how, how dramatically and decisively us and european interests are diverging that and that comes to that then comes a moment of truth. then they've got to realize what the hell, what the, how have we gotten ourselves into? where do we go from here? yeah, but yeah, but i mean i'm north stream is the, is the ticking time bomb. it's been ignored for 6 weeks, but i can't be ignored that much longer because it's this increasingly obvious would respond well party is. and daniel, given everybody doesn't want to say the obvious, ok, it's amazing. why would russia rebuild it? why would they rebuild that? just for it to be blown up again?

they won't let it go ahead. yeah, libertarians go ahead, go ahead in pairs. we don't of serbia. exactly. that is is everybody knows who breathed up and nobody dares to said so obviously that's not the hush. and because if the russian did, it would dare to say. so he did that wait another year, so good. but i mean, he said that the bring up saga said that's of course he knows also, everybody knows. and the german no, and the russian and the german know that the russian, knowing the and, and the joe good that far into mediation well, of the 1945 in him. i can't believe that. i mean that these political teens will do anything for the americans, but the german population, i'm not sure. on the german dean, there's 3, all the industry was going through with the shows the regime to, to negotiate concord because they need the, you know, they need the contracts with some of you as well. china. suppose there's no, you know it's, it's an in and look at the look something a cha, ching,

you see my call has been very war with mother or the prison. live in 0 is been gazing. great. there was the president of in israel, i did not legally. i did not quite know he's very friendly with my car. well, believe me, you know, message i'll let me go re before with end the program here. i mean, we're one minute re, i mean, oh, when are europeans are going to understand that the united states is not their friend in this? it's matter of fact, the u. s. is it's damaging the year. europe's interest far more than russia. ray one minute. well, your opinions, unlike many in our administration, are not completely dumb. they'll wake up when they industry implodes. why did charlottes go to beijing last week? ok. so they're going to recognize what's going on here, just as a matter of matter how, how long this persists. and that's why i think sullivan, not the brightest star in the sky, is scurrying around and try to figure out how to handle this thing. there in the

summer or winter it, but you know, the end, the program i've never seen such lo, octane leadership in the western world in my lifetime. and this is what we get for neo liberal ideology, where all of them are replaceable with each other. they're all exactly the same and we, and we're going to find that out with the midterm. is gentlemen. all right, that's all the time we have many, thanks them, i guess in new york, raleigh and in paris. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. remember, cross band rules the the the more so wish you the most from isn't do with russia, is the aggression know his answer, much matter. i mean,

he was due to me for more the hero. we have any quality for russia and all we gotta do is just feed them over the head and just tell them the right way to live. there is going to do this to move not a little but we didn't clear up the like you need to supply you with the with the given form you of night glove is with the new sure room juniors. they don't get up with our season. it's a russian who works with the washer to,

with with a republicans are projected to win a majority of seats in the us house of representatives in mid term elections as a nation wide exit poll shows that more than 70 percent of americans are all healthy with how things are going in the country under joe biden. also, an african nation saw in the alarm over violent extremism, pershing and social related terrorist groups continue to recruit young people by on