the ah with the hello and welcome to cross dog where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the conflict and ukraine is turned into a test of wills and endurance. and as such escalation as part of the calculus. this is what makes this complex so dangerous when nato escalates. russia reacts accordingly. and we know now american boots are on the ground. what could go wrong? the, the cross

talking the escalation dial, i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he's a former c. i a analyst in new york, we have, daniel is our, he is a journalist and author of 3 books on the us constitution. and in paris we cross the sha brick wall. he is a political commentator or a gentleman, cross our girls and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate re let me go to you 1st in raleigh. we have an admission from the pentagon that indeed american boots are on the, on the ground in the form of inspectors. what 910 months, and to start looking at all of the vast arms that are being sent there to start looking around like are they actually going where they're supposed to go? because we have authorities in penguin and denmark thing otherwise, which of course, we fully expected. but more important story is about the diplomatic front. so called diplomatic, it is obviously being leak by the intelligence community that they're kind of putting a little pressure on the landscape to be

a little bit more flexible on diplomacy, but not to end the war. actually to keep the war going on. because the problem is, is that america, european allies are getting to say, we really didn't exactly sign up to this. ok? there's a lot going on here. i know the mid terms are sucking the oxygen out of the room here. but you know, this is very, very important here because when the midterm is over, this complex is still going to be going on re thoughts. well, the mid terms, of course, are today. i see the admission that there are inspectors trying to make sure that those weapons that we're sending to ukraine not falling into the wrong hands. i see that as a political ploy. it's a big issue here. united states, what's happening all a billions of dollars tax dollars that we're spending on weapons to ukraine. so we have a kind of political thing here. i don't think it makes much difference whether we acknowledge publicly that there are troops troops on the ground or whether we

leave it to people who, who have been saying that all along. now the real real question here is is sullivan and are the others trying to persuade ukraine that you know, it's time to deal? no one kind of watches, poaching all the way through. i that was my job back every day. ok. i watched the whole 3 and a half hours that die. why do i mention it? because there's an offer him that pooty himself suggests. i don't want to misquote him, so i'm just going to read 2 sentences ready at the i guess it can be an apple of discordant, or it can be a symbol of finding some kind of solution to everything that is happening now. it's not a question of russia. we've said many times already negotiate, but i recently mentioned this publicly in the, in the kremlin. and,

but the leaders of the key review decided not to continue negotiations is true that the final or begins to that belongs to those who implement the policy in washington . it is very easy for them to solve this problem, to send the appropriate signals to hear that they should change their position and seek a peaceful solution. now, how much of an off ramp can do? you need the size that the russians have stopped replied. yes. would they be willing to say, all right, well, make the desa into a city like 3, yes, after the war, or maybe they would. why don't you try it? why does the mainstream pressed even mention this little hint that poochie would be ready to deal? if the esa was one of the apples of trust rather than apples of discord in daniel, i'm glad that ray has brought this up here because it's, it's almost to the point of absurd where you constantly read in the media. what is

the kremlin up to what is put in thinking? actually it's very easy to find out what he's thinking. he says a lot of things. it's recorded on the kremlin website. in english, you go to task dot com. all of these features here rains. absolutely right it these, these are not things hard to find out. but danny, what is going on with nothing about ukraine without ukraine? ok, i mean, it seems to me, the administration is really boxed itself in because it does what it needs an off ramp. but it's already committed itself to the zalinski regime. and of course the gang around zalinski want this to last as long as possible. so the griff last as long as possible. afghan i said it was, you know, a year ago and now it's ukraine. go ahead. daniel. well, i mean, 1st of all, wars have a tendency to escalate. i mean, that is a war is a, is a tear in the fabric of legality. and once that care occurs, there's

a tendency for the chair to get bigger and bigger. so. so yeah, i mean, so the administration is making various noises about an off ramp, but the administration wants to keep the war going because it thinks it has potent box, then it thinks it has the military upper hand. it wants to preface advantage to the, to the maximum. it thinks it can make russia squeal in the sense. and so therefore, was to keep on going. and russia sort of sees the, feels the same way. it feels that solidarity in the west has started to crack due to the economic breakdown that it can. it can wait long enough until the, until nato is really, you know, riven by serious conflicts. and then it will be able to press its advantage. so the war will keep going, it will keep intensifying, it'll keep escalating, and the great danger is that it turns into another 1914. and that is

a significant risk. you know, y'all in paris, i mean i said in my introduction, this is a, a test of wills and endurance. and now i've taken on board with daniel has to say, i know that he's presenting a certain interpretation of how the conflict is proceeding. i completely categorically, disagree with it. i rush, it does have the upper hand here. i don't see how ukraine is winning, but you know, who is, who can tell you who is really losing and it's europe that is losing here. the solidarity in europe is beginning to, to crack their cracks all over the place right now. and that's why i think the administration intentionally league, you know, that they're looking for some kind of venue and a way forward for negotiation not to end the conflict, but to make sure the european stay in line thought. go ahead. oh yes you,

you started basing what could go home, but everything has gone wrong since the beginning they were going to close the russian economy. they have not succeeded. now the african, i mean, are collapsing, did not want to admit that this is a consequence. at this, in part, the consequence of the sanctions. i mean the, the, germany's, when her companies are leaving for the united states. and, you know, she has been begging to beijing and he said, doctor, they do an ice people in the gains in his own county for doing that. i mean, i don't know what they're supposed to do. i mean, it's a catastrophe in europe. and of course it, it's tool that if you will, but the problem is, and indeed i am surprised myself by the will of the clean wants to fight and to die both both of their county that a, they're not going to get back very late. they're very unlikely to get back and b, but they're not wanted at all. why would they do that? that they found surprising. now on the ocean side, i am fairly optimistic, but you must realize that they have not been able to liberate,

to make sure that done. this is not bound. i mean, they are bumps on done as every day. and they have only about the last night been able to take all of the less airports with their own conclusions 2015. so you know, the progress of the russians is so and so, so i wouldn't be too optimistic. and if there was a serious peace offer, or i would consider it if i was put in, but i'm not put in, but of course there is no gummy, there is no for coming. see this piece of her because it in ski still wants to get back. you can in the the boundaries of 1991, which means including creamier and after ok now for expelling 800000 occupied russian occupy years in creamy there. it could be clearly as will be, you know, they, they say it will be like the, they did the, and you know, that she did. and after the war which i found, you know, was maybe understandable and that damage still. and in justice and the, well,

i meant michelle, this a deadline was never part of germany. ok. crimea was part of russia before the united states even became a country to them. okay. it's even worse. but i mean, even, even that they found, you know, had in judgment that was after the war and it did, they didn't know that, but they're saying you're down, you, i don't know how sions are high in came after 24. didn't know what exactly, but anyway they want ethnic cleansing. so it's very a symmetric or the hushes only. why they think that's legitimate to protect the hutchins were because of accident of history actually because of good when his decision. good educational sewage in ranking for you. okay. let me, let me go, go again. we're gonna right here in raleigh. i mean, do you think that anyone in the administration actually is beginning to have 2nd thoughts about this? because the goal is to weaken russian has nothing to do with ukraine re well it does have to do is what the nail kind. so running things in washington watch now,

will they wake up? i think today will be the proof in the pudding. and republicans already hinted they're going to be a little boy, assessable about this. and i looked very carefully at whether more arms are slated for ukraine. you craters already said houston arms just a matter of can they use them as also a matter of whether the u. s will stop where it is now, or what the nail kinds are able to persuade the defense department to give a longer range, still longer range missiles to ukraine. or that cannot be ruled out foolish as it is. as for the military situation, you know, i don't know, i don't know what's going to happen. but i do know that 300000 reserves are a quarter of them already in, in ukraine, from russia. i know from being a military well be, are army intelligence office. sure. that the 1st thing you look at is the estimate

of the situation and how enemy they are. what kinds of weapon re they have. what's the weather going to be like? what's the terrain like, whoa, the other thing is locks ok, not bagels and locks, but the lines of communication. and re i get a hold that we're going to go to a short break and asked about short break. we'll continue our discussion on the escalation dial. stay with the the the more you know, more phone or so for him do with russia is the aggression know his ends are much a matter. i mean, he, what's wanted you to miss you should see a year. we have any quality for russian gene. all we gotta do is just read them

over the head and just tell them the right way to live here is going to do just a little bit. a boy with boy. i'm with nice gloves with the new share, with our human at the washer, to work with at the watch with with

l. look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, accept where such order to conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to create trust rather than fear a take on various jobs with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with

the welcome cross truck or all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, remind you we're discussing the escalation, dial me, me go back to daniel and new york. the cynic in me. it makes me think that because i've asked this question a number of times in this program who's got the clocks and who's got the time and almost every single guess i've had on this program and said the same thing to me. russia has both the clocks and the time and as winter approaches here. now i think everyone is fully expecting that there'll be another ukrainian offense, and then they'll be a russian offensive as well. so that we could get some kind of movement on the battlefield. we have to remind our viewers that there was a partial mobilization of 300000 troops from the russian side. so that goes into the mix here. but as the economic numbers come out of europe, daniel,

it really is kind of a test of endurance here. russia is coming out of her, it was very short, but a very sharp recession rush is coming out of it. growth is being expected next year . but you can't say that about the west, particularly in europe, where it looks like it's going to go into a deep and rather long recession. so it's a game of endurance. daniel. all wars are games of endurance. i mean, i mean, the u. s. civil war was a game of endurance that was supposed to been over by christmas and 861 and lasted that 3, you know, 2 and a half more years, 3 and a half more years. so i'm, so, i mean, so all wars are involved this, and in this case this war is dragging on, you know, just longer and longer. you know, it's, i think it's an empty argument as to whether, you know, who has the upper hand russia, ukraine. i think that the both are, are arming themselves more and more heavily for digging him for a a longer and more intense fight. but that's what so dangerous. i mean,

that is what's pushing the escalation. i agree, the economy of the west is dreadful shape and especially for a country like germany, it's facing a huge crunch, but so is italy. so is the u. k. so as france and so as america, so you know, so, so we'll see who for support 1st. but the, but the, you know, all it takes is one element of missile to land either in russia itself or, and, you know, or in poland or romania for this thing to spread like wildfire. and i think that is that chance is growing. well daniel, i mean the polls want greater american presence in poland. ok. i mean they want to escalate, they want to as like, and then you know, finland found itself in the very odd situation or are they going to take the new killer option or not? and then the president piddling kind of moved as well. everyone feathers. no, we didn't say that. i agree with you that held in parents. i mean again,

you forget to look at the taste, a test of endurance. well, over the course of a few days, the, the, the russians took out about half of ukraine's electricity grid. there's nothing to stop them to do the rest of the 50 percent over 2 or 3 days. ok. and i think that that's, that was obviously, as a such being said, now for those that, you know, say this is in humane. yes, war is inhumane, but electricity has dual purpose. this is a conflict here. that's why i look at this, you know, is it a rather even bomb bomb? a battlefield here? i don't see it at all. i see the escalation in the, in the pain dial can be turned up very, very high against the ukrainians. and that's what i'm i, that's why i think like jake's element is beginning to realize they've boxed themselves into a corner. the russians are not in the corner at all. okay. i mean, who they get to talk to. they did, there is, and then he doesn't want to talk a bite and doesn't want to talk. so the russians are going to continue with their

objectives. go ahead in paris is about, you mean in, in humane a. i remember that in 1991 i was working american university or as a physician and my colleagues were very happy to see the whole infrastructure if you had being these total and as her table consequence for the civilian population . and then later there was the embargo, hundreds of thousands of that's at her. i mean, i've no, i mean, as she battled ukrainians, but they don't feel bad for the americans who are, you know, complaining about that. and of course, those people are not conservative as liberal democrats, et cetera in the what they wanted to see is that the e, that's a way for her to win. because of course, the way to january and then take off the whole of electric infrastructure in kane. what are they going to do? it even though he worked on in, they have to say. and i think that's the reason the way in the the americans are saying, well, at least pretend that you want to making a decision,

which is of course and those starter. but that may be what they try to do. and obviously my cars are way not leg birthday. good only i said that we need to have negotiations again of using shows be going to be beijing is trying to you know, a lot linked with shane dairy, little china and didn't succeed a well. but obviously you have these collab, i mean there's punch in your hobbies collapsing, western europe because you have these fanatics in the baltic state and in poland. maybe nothing. and then i'm causing a candle that they don't know, but even eastern europe is not them. a genius, i mean, survey care, hungary certainly bulgaria, a russian. so i think that's fund is going to collapse 1st. the us need to and i have been to challenge how do you bring up a really good point i going hang on, hang on here. it just brings up a very good point. you re, if there is a collapse of support in europe,

there's that worry you that these heart heads in washington in london would escalate to keep that coalition of the willing to go. that's what i'm scared about because obviously there's this conflict, it's very, i disliked in europe because of the economic pain. but it's the, it's the americans, it wanted this to happen. they have to find a balance here. that's what i'm afraid of. i'm agreeing with daniel on this point, go ahead re i agree as well. i mean, europe is a shambles. the real question is, will the germans finally after the 77 years now enough to say no, no, no, no, no they, they, well, they're programmed. now they can't, they can't, i'm sorry, go ahead. well, when their industry falls apart, when they start freezing during this winter and when they are told because it is factual, that not stream 2 and one have been sabotaged by the united states who else. and

then i think there's a chance that they will not i, those they did in 1933 when a good guys, one of the majority could stand up by their own. so i think, and i've been saying this for a long time, but this time i might be true. they may be up to that when they start racing down. that's really big. what i was talking about before in the military situation is you look at a map, ok, and you say as dancers, russia, the only way russia could lowe's, is if nuclear weapons were employed, russia doesn't need to do that, which is said so. so the question is, why is the u. s. regime this nucleus as specter and accusing protein falsely of threatening to use tactical nuclear weapons? he has not done so. i worry about why the us is saying that he has done so. yeah, we cause daniel beside that is talking about nuclear weapons,

is the side that is losing. that's what makes this all so very scary. daniel. it is very scary. i quite agree. i mean, that i read his rate as re brought up. i mean, the big issue is nordstrom, i mean, they know who destroyed nordstrom, it's been 6 weeks. and the, you know, as that to tell me, they have no idea it, daniel, that goes into the file of, i guess, will never know. ok. i mean, do you notice that have you noticed these kind of these it is, is, i guess will really never know, keep going that way. but i think everyone, everyone does know, yeah. and germany and in germany, you know, the germans, you know, as sooner or later they, you know, they will, they will admit the truth. and, and once they do, it's a whole new ball game. i mean, once they. 2 realize that no how,

how dramatically and decisively us and european interests are diverging that and that comes to that then comes a moment of truth. then they've got to realize what the hell, what the hell have we gotten ourselves into? where do we go from here? yeah, but yeah, but i mean i'm north stream is the, is the ticking time bomb. it's been ignored for 6 weeks, but i can't be ignored that much longer because it's dis, increasingly obvious would respond well already is. and daniel, given everybody doesn't want to say the obvious, ok, it's amazing. why would russia rebuild it? why would they rebuild it just for it to be blown up again? they won't let it go ahead. yeah. busy libertarians go ahead, go ahead in pairs, you don't, so serve. yes, exactly, that is is, everybody knows who breathed up and nobody dares to said so, obviously there's not the hush and because it's a hush and did it did to said so,

it's either wait, another usaa ruled, but i mean, he said that the playing of serbia said that's of course he knows also. everybody knows. and the german no, and the russian and the german. no. that the russian no. and the and, and the joe good that far in you mediation well of the 1945 in him. i can't believe that. i mean that these political teens will do anything for the americans, but the german population, i'm not sure. on the german, the industry, all the industry was going blue with the shows the regime to, to negotiate price because they need the, you know, they need the contracts with some of the, with china. suppose us, you know, it's, it's an in and look at, look, something a cha, ching, you see my car has been very warm mother or the prison live in 0 is been gazing grey. there was the president of, in his early, i did not like i did not quite now he's very friendly with my car. well, religion, i mean, you know, message i'll let me go re before with end the program here. i mean,

we're one minute re, i mean our, when are your opinions are going to understand that the united states is not their friend in this. it's matter of fact the u. s. is it's damaging the year. europe's interest far more than russia. ray one minute. well, the europeans, unlike many in our administration, are not completely dumb. they'll wake up when they enter st. implodes. why did chance go to beijing last week? ok. so they're gonna recognize what's going on here just as a matter of matter how, how long this purchase. so that's why i think sullivan, not the brightest star in the sky, is scurrying around and try to figure out how to handle this thing during the summer, or to withdraw it. but you know, to end the program. i've never seen such lo, octane leadership in the western world. in my life time in this is what we get for neil liberal ideology where all of them are replaceable with each other. they're

all exactly the same and we, and we can find that out with the midterms. gentlemen. all right, that's all the time we have many. thanks them i guess in new york, raleigh and in tears and thinks our viewers are watching us here. darky. see you next time. remember cross mantles? oh, nice to come to the russians state. little, never. i've stayed on the no slam fee in the div us. mm hm. no, i'm not getting calls all set up for a coup in a 55 when. okay, so mine is to 5 must be the one else with we will van in the european union, the kremlin. yup, machines. the state aunt, rush,

us for date and school ortiz, spoke mckibben, our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with requests with me. oh, when i was showing wrong, when i just don't hold any new world yet to say proud disdain becomes the advocate an engagement, it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground.

with a bully blow literally of for the most part it's a summer league deal fissionable will then yet collect amanda single animal. but the yield of the heavy nozzle side in formulation full and i would add in loss. but i had, i think that mission with policy daily was a stay at that. my idea what i did? well, that's envelopes. it's like let me love a can, but she's living ash and circumvention issue. they'll be developed by medina, like gusher, good little ballistic dealership or book learn. you got the immediacy, you knew. so i was also the upgrade your bathroom or go lose bull supposedly

mean out of it with the emission we are booking illustrated your motion here that we break. i'll grade on yoko relative to the most i do apologize for jumping in all of a sudden here at auto international tied to our cross live now to minnesota, gay sort of akin the russian general in charge of the operation in ukraine and the russian defense minister saturday, showing you unless a camera defends minister of the russian federation and channel of this situation in the air of the special military operation has stabilized. most have been a good battle capabilities has significantly increased due to the volunteer center up to you. so we increased the number of troops on that. we have created additional reserves dealing with iraq. you were due to them.