open for talks, it is the ukrainian leadership that pass certain legislation banning itself from engaging in the talks. but is any of that relevant without a more explicit and frankly, more genuine and more principal position of the united states on the issues of war and peace and ukraine. again, taking into account all the contacts, the under surface on the ground contacts that lead to this war. yes, i think you make a very good point and they will have to, when we think about how we get we, we began and i have to say that in my opinion, i think, i think, i think for, for russia to move against ukraine as it did i think was a mistake, and the one who strikes the 1st blow is always a disadvantage afterwards. but even so that conflict that blow it. maybe i've been unjustly stroke, but it was not and provoked there was

a deliberate refusal to discuss major security issues with, with russia, with president putin who wanted to discuss the wanted to talk about a restructuring of the european security architecture. that has to be done. it seems to me that that issue has not disappeared, hasn't gone away. and certainly if the united states were in the same position, i having, you know, rocket base is positioned on its borders and so forth. if we were, you know, we wouldn't sit back and take it either. so those issues have got to, it seems to me reappear at some stage. and even if not in the 1st year, it is quite russians decision to move into your brain as a, as a mistake. i think that's a huge and as essential tragedy for russia. and, you know, all the strategic for calculations notwithstanding. i think it's still, it's a major tragedy for, for our people because many of us have relatives in ukraine and we suffer from that

war not as much as the craniums, but it pains us a huge deal. but going back to the strategic issues, as far as i know, more than half of your cranes, current budget is subsidized by the west. many of the weapons it's using on the battlefields come on either from the west or with the help of western financing. and many western countries, and 1st and foremost, the united states and is doctrinal documents, strategic documents described russia as, as anatomy as an adversary and advocate the policy of active containment of my country through neither expansion. do you think that war would ever be able to come about or be sustained without the help of the united states? no, i think the united states was, it was a moving party in the war and the united states domination of nato is

also is also clear. a great tragedy is, i think, really, exactly as you say that this relations us, russian relations have been framed in terms of this, an intense animosity and not simply based on that and it disagreements over policy. but something that goes deeper and we've been trying, we've been some of my colleagues and i have been trying to analyze this for, we've been working for 2 or 3 years, talking to people and so forth, trying to find out where this is coming from, where, why special, intense, and in my study, if you take a newspaper like the new york times, i mean, you simply can't find an article that has anything nice to say about russia at all . and by the way, they are also don't have anything nice to say about china. so ok, so one possibility is that the u. s. position in the world now,

in some ways is being challenged. the u. s. position of the world has become uncertain. and it's a very strange situation since the u. s. is by far the dominant military power in the world as several people says, not since the roman empire is 1. 1 power been so militarily dominant, but, and yet there are signs of weakening of the weakening of this. so, you know, this kind of this global, a gemini, so in other words, there's a kind of defensiveness about the united states position. when you say that there is animosity, i think it's one sided, animosity the russians don't. hey, the americans, i mean i, myself started in the united states, we read the american literature. we have many friends in the united states, and then the american lifestyle has long been infatuated here in russia. but when you say that the america feels challenged,

i don't understand what is that challenge? i mean, do we challenge the american by the american state by the very fact of our existence, by the very desire to develop our sounds or our neighborhood by our i think boy, you know, birth given right to build connections with our neighbors and with other countries what is it that is challenging the united states from our side in the united states, i think is not being challenged by russia. i think the challenges are of a different sort, made my own feeling about it. when i say defensive, by the way, i mean what i mean, what i'm trying to point out is that very often aggression, aggressive activities and anti social activities are the result of fish of a person feeling threatened feeling or feeling the fear. and the, exactly, that's the underlying emotion there, but what i'm trying to understand is, what is it that the united states is hearing, given that again,

it's the most powerful control of the world is the most prosperous country there? well, it still has lots of the leverages to, you know, produce outcomes that it desires. what is it, what is it that threatening it on the inside? i'm almost tempted to tell you, go back and look at the history of the, of the late roman empire. and you'll see a nation that was threatened not so much from outside, but from by the internal divisions and in unsolved social problems. when you b, u. s. as a, as a nation, which, you know, in many ways it's got a wonderful history and it's that done wonderful things. but it also is one of the most unequal societies on earth. it has a, there's a radical growth in any quality, social and economic inequality. the very rich have never been richer, the pretty much everybody else can turn compared with them is for, there's great suffering among large sectors of the population in the country,

and particularly people living in the industrialized areas and, and in urban gatos and so on. there's tremendous suffering, and yet these problems are not being solved for a number, for reasons that we could talk about this. and i'm sure you would agree with me that projecting the those problems on to other nations is not going to how the situation. i'm sure that there was a little people in power who are trying to make those strategic decisions, including a decision to, you know, pump ukraine with weapons or provoke china over time, one incessantly. i'm sure they understand that this in and of itself is not going to how the, you know, power divide or the income divide within the united states. what do you think is that ultimate motivation? what are they trying to get for themselves without people there? well, it's not rational when you, you know, they, when you talk about motivation, you're talking about rationality. and what i'm saying is that when people are

feeling threat when failure, people threaten by internal dis, unity and people feeling. if you talk to look at the polls and ask the people in the us how they think the country is doing, the man, the great mass of people say they think it's doing very badly. and people start looking around for scapegoats, especially, you know, if you're not, if you're, if you've been taught not to blame your own system. if you're not supposed to be thinking about ways that the system could be restructured to become more fair and equitable and so forth. to everybody, then there's a tendency to strike out at others and, and scapegoats. i mean, that's one part of it. the other part of it. and the answer your question seems to me is that the world in many ways is becoming multi polar. that you use the u. s. has been the supervisee sole superpower really now for some considerable

period of time for decades. but now we're dealing not only with russia, which is in many ways, resurgent great power. china, which is clearly a great power. can this country learn to deal and to operate in a multi polar world as one great power among others? that's a big question and it's, it's going to take some re education here is going to take some work on our part to except that new reality model. professor romans thing. let's discuss some of the ways how the united states can take that very difficult and perhaps unpleasant lesson. after a short break, we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. ah ah

ah oh, well, she's ms. munoz carlton, if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about something like that because your friends are a don't put your human symbol on display a guy. so you guys

don't talk to strangers. i avoid noisy gatherings, a mushroom, even your colleagues, and perhaps also your friends think you're guilty because you'll, russian, a specific social with i've actually found safety and embrace of naziism as a joke. all of a sudden you're placed in a position where i can defend myself. now, i don't have to be afraid anymore. on one hand,

i'm terrified that they're going to find that jewish, but on the other, i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and her st. john, they're going to her one guy punch me. hi my here or somebody. so now in the rest of the punch is just started flying and somebody shouted out, died you boy died. and at that point i knew a brad and indian doctor, they came in and looked and said, there's no medical reason why you should be allowed to find something to believe john story, the story of ho story, victory, and whatever i can do to help him. i would get a

welcome back to one of the parts with returns who have been seen professor of conflict resolution and public affairs at george mason university. professor reuben's thing before the break we were talking about this very convenient habit on the part of the american to leads to sort of project that own and competency on to other nations and constantly search for the enemy an external enemy. but, and i'm conscious as it may seem, there are also many people who believe that, that these a deliberate policy, deliberate strategy on the part of american decision makers. and as you can imagine here in moscow, there not many people who believe in moral or democratic underpinnings of american actions in the ukraine. but many here give washington the credit for actually being quite strategic and rational because they believe that, you know, whether you like it or not. washington has succeeded in p ukraine against russia. and it's exceeded doing that at a very low cost, you know,

roughly $900000000000.00 and you know, thousands of ukrainian and russian but north american lives. and. a from a strategic point of view, that's not the bad outcome. do you think that's really something that came without any deliberate thought on the part of the american decision makers? so, you know, it's hard to say what's deliberating, what's not deliberate. i think that the, i think that the, that the decision to, to support ukraine would listen to support your grain. i mean, you might say in one way it was made quite early, was made in 2014, if not earlier, because the weapons flow started to started in a large scale at that time. so it was not simply a response to the invasion, although the invasion made some ways impossible for you to not to respond. but i

think you're, you're right to denote at the beginning of your statement that there is, there is some rationality in volunteer. and i think it's important to point out that all sides in the school, especially russia and united states have in some ways limited the kinds of military activity that they're, that they're engaged in. there is a lot of self limitation going on on both sides of the united states armed gradings to the teeth, but with many, with many modern weapons, but has avoided giving them weapons that could strike deep into into what i would argue. that they're, the only reason for that is to maintain the appearance of a proxy war and prevented from, you know, becoming a true kinetic war. because if that happens, the cost to the united states would be

a much higher than they are at the moment. and again, this could be, you know, a rational way of waging a war, but pretending not to wage a war. which brings me to your question, we sort of touch before, but didn't quite answer. do you think there any motivation at this point of time for the united states to support peace talks? what could be possible piece benefits for the united states? because from a strategic point of view, it has to be getting quite a lot and that's where i think there's a change, a change in the air that things are starting to shift their united states as a, as a, as an electoral democracy, as a, as a country divided between 2 parties has probably never been more intentionally to, by least not since the american civil war has been. so intentionally divided between the democrats and republicans. but also it's almost, it's so even very evenly divided. and i think that in this kind of situation,

a make, the democrats are starting to realize it's a major mistake for them to be giving the republicans a piece, a piece blank in their glass in their platform to be given the piece issue. turning the pieces you over to the republicans and i don't think they want to go into it, but it didn't hurt them that much in the, in the election. that's just taken place for various reasons. i think the main reason being that the election was really about donald trump and a few issues like abortion, much more than about foreign policy. but i don't think the democrats want to go into 2024 with this war going on. i think you actually are helping us here very handsomely to connect the 2 issues, the american foreign policy and the internal divide that the united states is facing. and i wonder somebody who analyzes international conflicts. i'm sure you

have a certain perspective on, on what could possibly, how the united states heel. it's an internal internal ones. and one thing that i noticed is that in the run up to the midterm elections, both the republicans and the democrats portrayed the mixture of the other side as a, as a major existential threat to the country. and the republicans did it as much as the democrats. i think the democrats actually did it even more than the republicans . do you take that as just fiery convenient rhetoric or is it indeed a sign of a perilous gap between the not just the 2 parties, but between the 2 parts of the united states? yes, i think i think it is a sort of a barrel. and in fact, my university is, you know, we're doing a forum on november 18th. we're going to do an all day assume forum on the underlying causes of this polarization and what can be done about it. and, and,

and i think it is dangerous, and i have to say that in conflicts like this. and also you might say the same thing about ukraine, you can reach a point that the people in conflict resolution called the painful stalemate in which both sides are, are, are hurting. neither side is, is able to win a decisive victory. neither side is going to say we're going to win a total victory, unconditional surrender, and all of that, that's not an issue, not in the cards. and when you have a painful stalemate and neither side can win totally. and then there's hope of a decent shot of a piece with honor of the just face. then i think which conditions are actually right. ok for conflict resolution. and i think that maybe also true in the case of

our domestic conflicts here. that is, people are getting, people are really getting tired. you know, when you think about northern ireland, for example, where the violent troubles were taking place and, and all of a sudden a group of women organized a peace movement in northern ireland for both both catholics and protestants. and the main message of the movement as we're tired of this violence is getting us anywhere. so let's try, let's do something different. i think there's that feeling i think is growing here and i am hoping and praying that it, that it grows faster. because i think the way our of our current impasse is to start reconsidering some basic questions about the way we do business in, in this country in the u. s. and in the west, in general. so many of the problems that dividers are really valuable. if we were

thinking more imaginatively about ways of forms of social reconstruction, you mentioned this conference up here, university is going to be hosting soon, and i'm sure it's not going to feature any russian experts, although i think the russians could bring you some very interesting perspective. on that, and i want to use this opportunity to quote one of the russian analysts who i thought had a very interesting analysis of the years, mid term campaigning. and he suggested that over the last couple of years and what, what's been happening in the united states is essentially a match between here and fewer in the democrats are trying to milk the fear as much as they want. or is they can, the republicans are trying to ride on the fury and both a very strong, very potent emotions, but not very productive. they accelerate the dynamic, but they don't create anything lasting. and you mentioned that, you know, some of the, perhaps grass through the effort of reaching out to the other side. but do you think the american system, at this point of time,

the electoral system will allow those initiatives, those grassroots good will initiatives to sort of rise up to the, to the upper echelons and make the politics in general, more cooperative and more productive for the society as a whole, well, i would have to say that they would re, course the elite will resist change because you know, that they, they're profiting from the current situation. but i think there's a, there's a certain time there are possibilities, at least in our history. our history also, your history suggest won't be organized strongly on a local level when they get fed up enough. and when a new generation of leadership appears or change changes possible. so i'm hopeful and when i talk to my students, when i see what the young people are doing, i see were, you know, or piece organizations, for example, in,

in washington dc. are doing. and i'm seeing, i see, for example, the development of a stronger and stronger feeling that there ought to be negotiations. and then that makes me hopeful that the lease can be, will be forced to lucian, are now are you and many other thinkers have commented on the proliferation of weapons in the united states, over 400000000 guns in the, in a country all 330000000 people and i think it's one thing to only gone for self protection. it's quite another thing you pointed at another human being. we all have sort of building natural safeguards against that. and people need most people only do that when i die. very sense of security as a central security is threatened. i wonder if the political divide at least the way you feel it, the way you sense it, because there is no way of i'm definitely answering to this question. do you think

the political divide has reached such a proportions when people would so seeing that immediate survivor with political issues? well, it's not, you know, it's not quite there yet. i miss the movement is dangerous. you know, the direction in which things are going. busy is dangerous, it's people are, i don't, people are not, most people are not buying guns now because they're, they are getting ready to fight or civil war against, you know, the left against the right or whatever. and there. but when they, when they buy guns, it, it very often indicates a complicated business. one of the things that it indicates is a deep distrust. not even so much of the other party in the political conflict, but a deep distrust of authority. and if you ask people in the,

in the states we're going is most frequent and, and guns are a kind of secret issue. and you asked them why, why, why do you need, why you think you need a gun? and clearly, you know, you don't need a military style automatic weapon to go hunting. so why are you buying these are these, these are automatic weapons and they will tell you that they are afraid that the government is going to become tyrannical. it's in some ways it seems total, it seems irrational and bizarre. but then of course, you realize that these are people who are feeling betrayed very often by government . these are people who are the promises made to them have not been delivered, promises a prosperity and security and happy family lives. their children will do better than they will. they will the ability to even express those

hopes that i think it is a very highly constrained i. i tested out as a, as a, as a journalist, the russian journalist with american education. but you can also reach american audiences unless you subscribe to a certain point of view. i mean, i think they exit the level of censorship in the united states at this point of time is tyrannical. and i'm saying that as somebody who has a very good knowledge of russian propaganda and the censorship in this country, but as much as i hated, we have to put an end to this conversation here because we exhausted time. so i really, i'm really appreciative of your thoughts as your agreement to talk to us at this point of time and very happy to do it. thank you for asking and thank you for watching hope to share again next week on the world's apart. ah,

with mm. hm. with ah, 3 with cynthia. god is throwing in the old hon national fours about oscar. come this comes with the last dance. have to deal with our dealers. we sprung from drawings from noon to loaded. let in bt. do

training a good gift away in the pals teacher skills on the edge on the, on a ship though was to limit on the up against him because a little bulk. um yeah, the crucial chest middle school was i was leaning wookey loan is not that of getting used to a lot of what you could eat with the leukemia. well, they knew they were lit up. she's we, can you video to fix the ability to listen to the, i guess when you go see, show the mrs piece, they need to the middle south and you can give us the opportunity as opposed to her from his don't see this material, but this phone ta school, even though so glad you need to locate those slide o b, misty located. it doesn't help with them. you have yet to me. she go, she returns. ah, yes, please. then you'll have to learn this maritza to handle most of his emotional specially to renew the lease is up to engine you took. are you going to skip?

mm ah, needs to come to the russian state local narrative. i've unfortunately no slam. steve asked me, i'm not getting all sunset for me. could been 55 with the new one else with we will ban in the european union, brenda media machine, the state on russia today and split our t sport neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube, with

a at least 6 people that killed while the number of those injured rides is to more than 80. as a powerful blast. rocks are crowded to central, true to and if number western policies are trying to weaponized the region, that's the warning to asian and pacific countries from russia's foreign minister at the assay, and summit wrapped up also in the storage of shape. the weak heroine r t. a piece dealed off the 2 years of violence achieve dialogue. officials from the p o b and the to grey region agree on a ceasefire and open the door to humanitarian with.