ation reduction act, not only dis, incentivizes american consumers from buying german or foreign cars by giving them tax breaks for made in america vehicles. but it also gives companies tax and energy incentives to invest in american that codes german and foreign companies. so german finance minister, christian lender sees the writing on the wall regarding the economic hit that europe could end up taking as a result. and he's been talking about how the u. s. has to be aware of the negative impacts of the inflation reduction act on the european market. yeah, no kidding. they're aware of it. so i mean, he starting to now talk about the fact that the u. s. in europe in the u. s. in germany have to start reinforcing, renewing the transit land to goliath. it's kind of like, hey buddy, i see the years steel and my girl there are, i mean, my economy, do i go the pub and talk about it? it might just be by design. the german finance minister can complain all the wants,

but the u. s. is looking out for it's best interests and those interests include beating germany on the global playing field. we shouldn't be naive here and yet, or should they? germany had every opportunity to defend its own energy and economic interests. as the u. s. pressured it to cut off its own gas supply for ukraine, and berlin failed to champion its own interests and simply fell in line with the use sanctions. and now the fact that the german finance minister is trying to sweet talk, the americans about their quote, transit landtech partnership from a position of weakness is kind of too little too late. there are also supply chain and labor costs problems that have piled up in germany and in the rest of europe. as a result of heavy handed european policy, as the blocked tinkers around with its economy and breaks even more things every single time, there's a crisis. and the outlook doesn't really look too good for germany, which is set for a 0.6 per cent, full year decline in g d p next year,

which is the worse projected performance of the euros on, which is bad news for the rest of the e u as well, that depends primarily on the german economy as the blocks main sponsor of its insanity like funding ukraine and inflation, rates in the u. s. pale in comparison to those currently in the u. many thanks for that that some oddities contributor, rachel moss and i thank you and thank you for joining us here in our international . we're back at the top with ah ah

ah hello and welcome to cross stock. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. nato is hybrid war against russia just became more dangerous and frightening. a missile fired from ukraine by ukrainians landing, and poland clearly demonstrates what can go wrong due to her mistake or miscalculation. of course, the collective west instantly moved towards invoking article 5 of the nato treaty, which means starting world war 3. i crossed, sucking dangerous times. i'm joined by my guess, anthony kevin in australia. he's a former australian career diplomat and ambassador to poland and cambodia in brussels. we have gilbert doctorow, he's an independent political analyst and author of memoirs of an ex pat manager in

moscow during the 1990s. and in belgrade we have james, generous. he's a former u. s. diplomat and former advisor to u. s. senate republican leadership or a gentleman cross i girls in fact, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated gilbert. let me go to you 1st and brussels. what a week it is already been. we have this fiasco with a missile being fired that it landed in poland. of course, every we got one goes on edge, but you know, i've been talking about this ever since the started the conflict and actually before and i've always and many other people of predicted exactly a situation like this, the could get out of control. unfortunately, gilbert, there seemed to be people that wanted to go to the next step. this is where we are in very dangerous times. thankfully, a number of people have said taken a step back away from the brink. your thoughts on this situation? gilbert of what happened this week, look very much like a false flag operation in which russia would be hold out and play the world in this

particular case, in front of nato. as they would enter into talks about invoking. i an article floor of rocks, even article 5, it looked very much like a forced like operations, one like force flag operations that had been in the recent past. and i would go back here to then age 17. and what to the force flag in syria in syria over alleged chemical attacks by the bunch, not the, the regime. the issue here, i was stopped in its tracks by united states. that tells us a couple of things. a wind president, biting a few hours after news of this, not missile strike in poland, told reporters that he had reason to believe that russia was not behind it. that changed the game. this is the 1st time in any such potential. a false flag

operation with united states has been in the one to pull the plug in at all. and to say that it has the own recognizance information. that cruise for that scoot add to their satisfaction. that missile was not fired from russia. similar reconnaissance information. shirley was available for the mh 17 but was not put into play. but back then, the issue was one of simply a propaganda war. information war is credit russia and to bring in new sanctions. if this particular 4th flag proceeded, implications were far more devastating. it would, since russia and denied and united states nato are in a proxy war, it will escalate it into a real war which has as its logical conclusion, a nuclear exchange. ok, i've reason we saw the nice they stepped back, which hasn't done in the past. they had the united states use the information that it was available to state because the russians were not responsible. that's

a dramatic change. and so kind of a hopeful change. well, let me go to anthony in australia. hopefully, maybe this could be a trend because we have had 10 months of this horrific propaganda. one sided narrative and, and what happened this week if you go up to the brain care and this is the nightmare that you know, going back to dr. strange love, if you will. i agree with gilbert that you know that it was good that the us took a step back. but if we look at everything over the last few months, encouraging the zelinski regime to do these or get involved in these kinds of affairs. i mean, there has to be some lessons learned from that. your thoughts, gilbert? i'm sorry, anthony. in australia. i agree with gilbert. was a very dangerous man, and i don't necessarily agree with him that it was a deliberate false flag on your crimes. i think lensky has a bit of

a habit of being highly irresponsible. irrational mice. i think he opportunistically dried in his usual way to take advantage of what was a military mistake on the part of the friday and. and he had craft miss launchers who sent it off in the direction of poland, which was obviously not what they intended to do and lend few opportunistically 2000000. and let's try and make out of this. and he failed. and i think it's really important that as gilbert says that the united states and this means that the spell has been broken and i will says little boys cried will too often. i think something changed in the way in which the west now thinks about solemnity. yeah. well, well, we'll see with this lame congress if they're going to give $37600000000.00 more

dollars. we'll see if that happens there, james, i mean, can you explain something to me here? you have the lensky and his gang wanting to do everything in their power to have good nature when to a hot war with russia. it's a proxy war with russia now, but get into a hot war. ukraine doesn't come out very well. and in a hot war, does it, can you explain to me why there is so keen on it go ahead in belgrade work? well, let's be clear that the is the lensky regime and that's what i would want to call. it doesn't really care about the gradient people or about ukraine. they're the voice of hysterical russel phobia that, that really only defines their concept of ukraine in opposition to russia. and by any means necessary they will, if they can drive the western powers into this war. i don't think it's time to the champagne corks. yes, that the west has begun. the road wake up about what kind of danger awaits them. they allow zalinski and his crowd to drag us in, but it is encouraging. i saw a piece in the financial times recently that some of there's some constant

consternation among nato governments that they believe the ukrainians are lying to them. they're not playing straight with them. and whether it was deliberate or inadvertent that dismissal ended in poland. i think some of them are belatedly starting to see the danger that they're in and on top of everything else. i don't think this is the kind of shenanigans we see from a country that believes in is winning this war with, despite all the propaganda that ukrainians are winning the russian pullback from prayer song and so forth it's, it's pretty clear that they read ingredients. i think reaching the end of the road . yeah. well, gilbert, i mean, it's something that i've said many times in this program, in this context of this conflict, a big party that escalates means that's the party that's losing ok. and the party that is losing will use as much propaganda and, and change the narrative as much as possible. and it's favor thoughts, gilbert. well, in the, in the west, in mainstream media. the notion that ukraine is losing is out of play.

the story you were here on the b, b, c, that every one of their news, their news hours or on your own news is that ukraine is winning and that the spirit is strong. and on the contrary, the russian army, which has a morale problem. now the best that can be said is that the media are telling us that a winter is coming, and as the war will wind down. and this is a good time for negotiations, why exactly russia would want to enter into action at this point when. so then sky adamantly opposed. here's another question, but the likelihood is quite different from what the expectations of readers of western media would find. the likelihood is the russians will go on the counter offensive in the middle of winter, which is the logic of their 220000 soldiers were finishing their, their training for this effort. these are reservists who aren't inducted for

indefinite period to sit in trenches. there. war will continue and the russians will smash ukraine. and i think general milly understands that that is why there were voices in washington now calling for negotiations. not because it's, it's a good point particularly, but because they know the lot worse is to come for ukraine after the new year. yeah, well anthony, i don't want to sound like put too much of a hard line or but if they're in negotiations and as far as i can see, it's ukraine. the negotiations were ukraine to surrender, to avoid what gilbert just said, go ahead, anthony. pretty much the question is, the longer the fanatics in p f, keep the sing going more territory and like the cry and risks losing permanently. and i want to mention this continuing attack on the cranium power grid because it's, it's absolutely crucial this. i mean,

at the moment it's minus 7 in level the wolf has lost 80 percent of it had our peers has lost something like 67 or 70 years and this can't go on much longer. and the point is the ration right. continuing, not stopping. and the ukrainians have no effective way of stopping these very, which actually targeted missiles which caused almost no casualty, by the way, hitting their targets and simply destroying anthony if i could just if i could just jump in here before we get to the break here. so this $37000000000.00 the by the ministration wants to say, is that going to change the electricity grid and ukraine anytime soon? no, no, i mean you can, you can input all the weapons you want, but if you haven't got electric power, he can't do very much with them. i think ukraine is going to collapse really quite quickly. the war effort is going to collect really quite quickly. the landscape

crew left floundering around desperately. what, what i did in valley was desperate failed. everything is failing. i think it's going to unravel for you right and come together for russia rather weekly. okay, let me get a james here. 40 seconds before the break here, but ukraine is winning. what's wrong with all of us on this program, james? go ahead. 40 seconds before we go to the break. but to tell you here in the balkans, i hear a lot of concern from my serbian friends that russia not fall into the trap that they fell into in the 1990 s, where every time they had a military advantage they'd stop as they are. now let's move on toward a degree minutes have a ceasefire. let's negotiate in good faith and then found out that those, those, that, that was not a good faith from the other side. and i, you know, the russians need to think seriously about this, that when they do have the advantage where they press the advantage where they stop and talk to their western partners of no intention of keeping any promises. yeah,

well i think they have learned that lesson here. and i think if you look at the rhetoric that is coming out of russia is that they, they pretty much know the score and who they're dealing with here. and that's exactly what we're going to talk about when we come back from our break. gentlemen, i'm jumping in here, we're getting out of which our break and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on dangerous time stamp with archy ah, ah, ah, when i was shooting wrong when old fools just a to see how the scene because the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will to

part, we choose to look for common ground. i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're such orders that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at that point, obviously is to place trust rather than fear a very job in with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with ah,

welcome back. across like were all things are considered. i'm peter labelle tremendous . we're discussing dangerous times with . okay, let's go back to gilbert's in brussels. a staying with this incident happened this week. here it seems to me the, the, the zalinski regime and it's backwards. they wanted to achieve 2 things. number one, i'm not necessarily world war 3, but to keep the coalition of the so called, willing to gather because it's beginning to fray. huh. it went through setting in western europe to not just in ukraine and also to keep the spit on, keep the money flowing because everyone know, we don't know what the next congress is going to do. i have very little faith in republicans, but you know, they do have they, they will have charge of the purse. will they start thinking about how much money they get to spend to ukraine instead of a denying it to american families, we will see. so it basically keep the coalition of the willing together and keep

the money flowing that, that, that did serve its purpose. here. go had gilbert. well, you're really accounts for nothing. europe, as a follower, had best. you saw what happened in the initial reaction to the missile striking poems, the baltic states immediately seized on this as sound. and it sounded like loud speakers for kids. they were calling for info cation of, of article 5. they were naming russia direct these responsible. but give me hang on gilbert, you but i want to unpack what you just said here. so we have the baltic states calling for the. so if there is a hot war between nato and the boss thinks paid to the 1st the go, i mean, i, again, i don't understand the rationality of these people that are so anxious to have a hot military conflict with russia. can you explain it?

well, again, the same issue that was brought up by my fellow talent analysts that mr. zelinski does not, is not concerned about the ukrainian people is only concerned about this ideological war on russia and new identity for ukraine. the same is true of the baltic states and several other states in what were formerly warsaw pact, countries. the leadership in these countries was installed, but they're not staged in almost as page managed away. as ministers against his predecessors. in february, 2014 were installed in data. they are american agents. not some of them have american citizenship where you have to get this into line. they all were prepared for the roles. they now enjoy. they are serving the united states. they are given. busy honors and importance in european affairs that far outweighs their nomic or cultural or any other dimension. you want to measure

importance to europe. so they are they are jackals. it's interesting that they were snubbed and stood and sucked out at once when mister bite and said what he did about this not being a firing by a missile by, by brush it and go back to your question. what will happen in europe? europe will follow what united states tells europe to do, and any differences and cleavages that we see in your, between france and germany and germany in the baltics are all into whatever. these are insignificant, they will not lead to a change in the situation in the east west confrontation, the change the situation will be in washington depending on, as you say, the political calculus, domestic politics, calculus in the united states. when the price of this becomes to be considering the other demands on the, on the federal budget and when the rational rationality

and the truth coming out of ts is, is questioned further in a way to even the financial times. questioning today, as jim said, we go back to australia, anthony, i mean the again, you know, one of the things i keep stressing ever since is complex started than if people want to talk about negotiations and diplomacy. well, no, we had a whole lot of that before february 24th. okay. russia sent out it's the security demands to nato into the united states. very clearly stated what they want. there's not going to be any negotiations and diplomacy if those issues are not met. okay, because i think all of us in agreement here, the zalinski crowd doesn't care much about ukraine. russia is gone and protected its own co, no russian speakers. and then you know, the united states. well, that's just a, you know, a casino for them and

a whole lot of corruption. i would say, you know, but russia is this going to say, look, we told you what we want and that those things haven't really changed or can the west washington and london come to grips with the fact that all russia has security interest as well. go ahead and australia will. busy there's a total difference in town coming out of moscow since the 24th of february and really the difference in time started about a month ago. and now we've got a very, very hard headed roster indeed. looking, looking at the west, very coldly, keeping in touch with the west, there's dialogue going on at the level of benefits and the level of through shift to his opposite number in washington. so those 2 dialogues are going on. c, i a and national security level dialogues and, but they're 2 different quality all together. i think roger is now basically laying an to washington saying you've lost,

it's going to get worse and worse for long. you go on supporting the lunatic and just cut your losses and get out as quickly as you can. and it's just a question of how quickly that message gets through washington. that's why i don't know how quickly the flow in, but i have a feeling. it's going to end broader more quickly than the pessimists think. james, i can, i tend to agree with anthony. your thoughts, james? yes, just a footnote on what you asked peter regarding congress to the republicans, whether by fair means or foul did not as well in these elections. and he thought they might. but even if they had, it really would have changed march, even though you might get a few more trumpet populace who by can consider the wisdom of wars like this, the republican leadership. and i remember i worked that in, in that context for 17 years republican leadership is thoroughly controlled by a neoconservative outlook on the world. if anything,

they're more critical of the democrats for not being supportive enough of ukraine and not being hostile enough to adopt to russia. they may grouse a little bit about, oh, this account for the spending where's all the money going and so forth. and even that just window dressing, so i don't expect my change in that order. the only way this is going to change from washington is and maybe the financial times indic where was a little bit of an indication of that, that even some of the, the people have been proponents of us war for a very long time. at some point, get to the edge of a really severe conflict that would be a not capable of containment, and they stand up with the edge, look down the best and say, oh boy, we better pull back from that. they haven't reached that point yet. i hope they will, if, as we expect there is, as you say, i think, i think very strong russian offensive coming up with this winter. well, gilbert, how does, after all of the investment in the investment, in every sense of the term, how does the west them gracefully lose this one?

ok, can they, or will they continue to up the ante? will they continue to escalate? because the way it's framed in the west is this is x is that we have to fight him over there before the if we fight over here. ok, which is completely idiotic. ok. but that's how it's framed. ok. how do you walk away from that gilbert? walk away, they will, i wouldn't worry about it. now the world didn't end with united states for what we see know on, on television, is the constant repetition, the same mantra, the ukraine is doing well when we all know it isn't doing well. and they will find a way to cover up the loss, the same roads and discussion with journalists, which the end of the pentagon said russia, ukraine can possibly muster the force to send the russians out of its territory. he also opened that discussion with the remark that the russians can possibly take

over all the ukraine or willingness war. so they will find a way to, to explain what happens as being after all the russians didn't, when it walk away. you guys, i think, i think guilford's. absolutely. brian is that, you know, well, they get the somehow, no matter what the outcome is, if there's a change in care of whatever it still russia last is conflict. that's how they're going to do it. because essentially, that's all their message is, is a narrative and propaganda, anthony. yeah. if i could come in there, i think rush will, will help america find a soft landing. when american does decide that it's going to cut the losses and stop supporting lensky in any serious way. the russia has a lot of options. i mean, they not be cation in the militarization of ukraine. there are many, many ways to skin that cat many, many ways. and it doesn't have to involve rupture occupying the house or tribute

right. it might involve some form of raising change, and it might simply involve the weakening of p s, for example, depriving it of because from strip it was completely new to the crimes. potentially the security threat director in the future is a blush that has been stripped permanently and was left with her, you know, an agrarian, northwestern rough country. so i mean, russia will help america find a soft landing. i think that was the james. i'm look, i'm really glad that anthony said that because the it would be in rushes, national interest to do that actually. ok. i know every, the western media likes to keep everything is binary. you're not agreeing, james, go ahead. i do not agree at all. okay. and, and i think that sort of thinking is very dangerous for the russians. that is wanting to walk away from afghanistan as one thing for the, for net to west nato,

especially the united states, which is nato. to walk away from this because that means that the whole purpose of data russians out, americans in germans down, will be shown up to be a paper tiger. the emperor with no clothes at that point, the in global american empire that we've seen since the end of the 1st cold war is over. this is an existential struggle for washington, not for the american people, not for the united states as a normal state, but for this, this global empire that we've made, they basically major fortunes on in bed, all their forces on for decades. they cannot easily give this up. maybe this provocation was not the right one. maybe some people are starting to get some cold t here, but i would not count them out yet. and this is where i didn't get back to what my serbian friends are saying here. the russians for their sake, from their point of view, if they want to be seduced about letting their enemies off easy, not humiliating them. i think that's a very dangerous thinking for them. from their point of view, in my opinion, if i were in their shoes, they had to press for

a military victory via be aware of the dangers at the other side will pull up its dirty tricks like they did in syria, or in bosnia and other places we're not out of the woods here yet by any means. that's right. and the, the me victory would be in my mind, the end of nato. that would be a 1st good step. generate. great, that's all time we have. i want to thank my guessing in australia bell, great, and in brussels, i want to take our viewers for watching us here to see you next time. remember prospect rolls. ah ah. a with

a ah, the headlines on our t international and some graphic and disturbing images posted on line ukrainian troops allegedly executed russian prisoners of war with moscow. calling the footage a demonstration of blue tollett t, which you claim the allies support with also this now the chinese president was against western, had gemini and protectionism at the apex summit in bangkok, amid tensions with the u. s. a trade and the tie one issued in ukraine, the ex president portia, and.