it's many western backers couldn't believe their good fortune. finally, there was justification to start a hot war against russia. alas, cooler heads prevailed, at least for now, ah, discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guess, wendy's an oslo. he's a professor at the university, southeastern norway, as well as author of the book, great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution. and in budapest we have george semi wiley. he's a pod, castro, the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals are a gentleman, cross stock rules, and the fact that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. while i start out with ga, ga, what a difference a week can make um, we have this, i'm calling this program the, the missile of november. you obviously understand the reference here, but it's nothing to take lightly, particularly since on this program we have been predicting such

a possible predicament would face the world. what do you make of all of a here we had claims counter claims on poland almost and went to article 4, which would be the step before article 5. and then we had the bite administration, essentially the snippet in the bud in the very beginning. how do you make, how do you, how do you account for all of these things that are playing out at the same time? go ahead, george. well, i think it's been clear for quite some time the ukraine's strategy has been to try to get out the rest of the world involved in a war with russia. and ukraine has previously stated that nato should bomb bratia later. should launch a preemptive nuclear attack on russia. and then lo and behold, we have this incident, which it was 1st reporter, russia and,

and they go by, goes into immediate effect on one girl, and everybody is with russia. and so, when the true facts began to emerge fairly quickly, namely that a missile launch was ukraine. clearly, there was inside, within western capital, where it was going with the most serious thought of it. from ukraine's point of view is that it was seen almost immediately that ukraine was lying. and your brain had been lying for hours and hours and hours on that. this was clearly a russian and now it's over say that those are getting rather more to it than that . because if, what, if one thinks about how a launch, it doesn't really make a great deal of sense. but if, for instance,

rush launches on attack from the east to the west or from the south to the nose. why a 90 minute south launched by ukraine, which would be heading from west to east, would end up over the other direction going from east to west. then we'll end up in poland. the real question as to whether in fact the whole thing had been stage a full flag of instigated by ukraine, possibly a collusion bipolar and we don't know whether that was a thing that within the capitals a united states which would have to do all the heavy lifting any on confrontation, there was this very thought ukraine has just stage a false flag attack trying to drive a with russia very serious situation. yeah, i mean,

glen, i don't know. i'm trying to look at it from a very practical point of view, not an ideological one. i think george is right. i think there could have been. we have no evidence here. you don't have an him, but i think it makes logical sense that could have been collusion between the governments of poland and ukraine. to tom enlarged the war have a hot war because we're in a proxy war right now against russia. but how is, how it ukraine, poland actually benefit from a hot war with russia? i don't understand them. i don't understand these countries that want to join nato . why they putting a target on their bags? pull in wants to be the hub of this proxy war against russia, which we consider as we have seen as its dangers involved here. i mean, i understand the visceral hatred of russian wanting to destroy it, but it isn't so pathological that they're willing to destroy themselves in the process. your thoughts? well, i'm not sure about poland. a speculation period, though,

so i will for ukraine obviously that they are in the hot or with ross or so. so again, so let's get dinner open. if you would like to get more involvement from the west or, you know, again, look for the conspiracy theory to point out that he wants nato to intervene in this war and ukraine side. so. so these are kind of clear to what extent poland of, within europe, poland obviously, is country that is more, most prepared to, to join in on this war against russia. about whether or not this means that they, they were in on this, if you will, i would know i would be more skeptical because i think this would very easily become a nuclear war. so i hope there's no colon who would be to be chairing for this, but i'm but, but even within your crane it's, it's not completely sure to what extent this is what's known by zalinski. obviously,

for everyone that's not recognized, you will see a crane and missile. the main disagreement seems to be now, was it to missile that went straight, trying to shoot a russian missile or was this a deliberate attack? i mean, i think it was the maryland and poland, even question like what is going on there? you can't have an accidental shot if you fire a missile 100 kilometers in the wrong direction. so, you know, this indicates, you know, the question whether or not, you know, this is, this is putting all their ships in this fight is a good idea from hello, you know, good ukraine does have a very tattered history of firing missiles in the wrong places. and hitting the wrong things is unfortunately, as a group of people, i mean, it could have been accidental or if it was a deliberate trying to settle something, it could have been something all level of actual just the people firing austin

missiles, i'm not sure how far it would go away again. this is something conceivable about that. so lensky would, would be kind of desperate. now would it take to do this deliberately target nathan, hold or so again, it's a lot of speculation now given that there's a final poland, it's interesting because as i mentioned, poland has been possibly the most in the country who would like it, always considering joining in on this war, so it's all very unclear at this moment on it because it, because it's unclear, it's very, very dangerous here. george, you know, we heard dessert from glen, the, you know, a desperate. ok. i i'm willing to believe, but you could you, crane and it's leadership. they're not victims. here they are volunteers. they are volunteers in this conflict. ok, so you can be desperate involving

a volunteer at the same time. they don't make any sense to me, and ukraine would not be fighting today if it didn't have the backing of the united states. so this is what makes it into a very complicated thing because, i mean by this continued support here, of course, the specter of new killer. a strike is on is on the table because of the continued support of by nato nations, particularly united states, another $37000000000.00 coming down the pipe way to want to kill russians. that's why it makes it so dangerous, george. yes, yes, extremely dangerous. as you say, a hand because ukraine has no hope of defeating russia. i mean, you great, only possible way out of this is to provoke a war between nature when russia metrics on the home. because it's so everyone loses. george is a kind of total destruction that

ukraine is waging and what's wrong. the united states knows this. so united states knows that ukraine cannot win this war. and the only way your brain can prevail is by involving the united states in the shooting will. with russia, the united states has been playing this game, but you know, thinking well, this is good for us as long as we're weakening and we're damaging. russia is always with hurting russia, destroying its economy, killing them, weakening them, then it's good for us without thinking through the danger that the united states is quoting. so for the americans now to be upset with the ukrainians, to the extent that they are upset is thoroughly disingenuous. yeah, this is exactly what was going to have that ukraine strategy. there's no other strategy other than provoking a shooting law. and again, you know, where, where is this going to go?

well, that seems to be the only way that it can result because neither the united states nor you crate, nor anyone in nature seems to have any idea of how to bring any of this to an end. a need to say what will be decided on the battlefield? well, how, what i was i going to be decided on the battlefield. i mean, either it would defeat total defeat for your grade in the complete destruction of a population or nato will be involved in a shooting war, which again, is quite a distinct possibility. you know, glen logic would dictate ok, but politics and logic don't always get along very well. zelinski was very obviously he was lying about his interpretation of what happened here. and that, that sense, a chilling effect all through europe because that would be the extended battle field. and of course, you know, the united it's, you know, looking at it's protege in, in, in kemp as just, george has pointed out,

is it took delete every one down to the path of destruction. it seems to me that we had a c i, a director burns me with his russian counterpart. i have to wonder if they just said, look, the russian, you guys either do when you're going to do and we're going to do what we're going to do. but neither one of us are going to entertain ever under any circumstances. nicholas weapons that is at a sound theory. yes i, i think so because again, this is what a proxy horse i usually about to fight with other people's armies. and again, i fear i would ask your listeners if they should bury the record directly from the united states, which is a round report from 2019. that is a very well known thing. thank mainly from her mainly because they are so close ties with that intelligence community in united states. it said that they have a hand in every war, you know, since her world war 2. but it was my, my point was at the outline, discharging 2019 how to we can,

russian and ukraine was a key component to say, you know, keep threatening nato expansion, giving you more weapons to ukraine, to hit on bus because they're more intensified. the more russia will be dragged them, and this would lead the russians in terms of also money and people and people are getting killed, but also it sucks. a lot of resources, a moment to resources are russia, but has an additional benefit that is that the ukraine is becoming molded us an anti european, as are anti russian countries. keep in mind when they were offered root native future. nato membership in 2008. does only about 20 to 25 percent, what you want it to be part of it, the majority had a negative view of nato and, or opposed to view of russia so, so having an anti russian ukraine seemed like impossible. but now, after russia's invasion, i think, you know, this can be ever anti russian sentiment in ukraine for decades to come. it's not century. so i'm glad i had that you have been here. i have to go to heartbreaking out of that hard break. we'll continue our discussion on so really stay with our tea. ah

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ah, welcome back across that you're all things are considered. i'm futile about this is the home addition to remind you, we're discussing some real names. ah. okay, we're back from the break lenny right before we went to the break, you want to finish out the point. please go right ahead. yes. so my, my, my point was that the mission was to have a, a slow burning and understand in europe if you will, to slowly the russians. but the same round report warned that the, if the intense spies too much, russia begins to take territories. and is this kind of development that's not in

america interests also august, the direct war between the united states and russia is also not in the us interest . so, and this is where we're heading now because you know, this is the tail wagging. the dog thing works in america might be dragged into a war which ends up in nuclear confrontation. there's nothing to us interests. so i think that this, this could have been a real mistake on the part of the ukrainians because now the americans are very concerned that they might get pulled into a world like this. so, you know, in church i'm on our podcast to gaggle you've sent on a number of times and you've been very critical in some respects of the special military operation is that it's a conflict on the cheap. what seems like the major powers are using ukraine as a proxy on the cheap and you can't do it forever. ok. because number one ukraine is being rounded into into dust. ok, it's, it's a, it's a electricity grid is as failing and that it will be completely failed within a matter of weeks with winter here. and that's, you know, the us,

he's the prospect events and proxy losing. on the other hand, you have the american proxy in care that is threatening nucular armageddon for assault. so there's a lot of miscalculation going on here. does that account for? and i don't, i truly gentlemen don't have my head around who is really promoting negotiations. millie a cell and then the russians, the villains gave what's going on here, george, can you make any sense of this all, or is this the father war and intentional dis information which comes with every conflict? go ahead, jordan. well i, i tend to think that there is a intentional dis information. i mean, obviously there are concern among the u. s. military one to stand these things that ukraine cannot go on fighting this war forever. the casualties that sustain a friend that ultimately infrastructure can be totally just destroy it,

to the point that it will be no power at all. no the entire country. so i think that they probably do think it does a lot. maybe maybe it's time for some sort of a cease fire, a nice few months during which we can replenish the forces or revise your grains flagging for tunes. but without any sense of how can bring this to an end and you know, little a rush isn't going to buy into any idea. well, let's just freeze everything in place for 34 months, and then allowed the lights. they just replaced all of you. crazy losses. so that, that isn't happening. but there's also a often happens with the united states to kind of go to come back and we, you know,

we have really, apparently, well, maybe we should negotiate and then you have a hole in the state. and i know we have to head towards victory. so i think there's a lot of this information going on. i mean, the measure would be, is anyone coming out with any serious plan to do to negotiate? but, you know, those are, this will be the 3 or 4 points that we would except for, for a final settlement. i don't see anything like that. so i'm kind of skeptical about the stories about america. but some sort of negotiation, you know, 2 words, final settlement. that's the key. george is the key to all of this here, glenn, because, you know, you can talk about, you know, a cease fire prisoner exchange and all these kind of things. but that has nothing to do with the final settlement. and i've been adamant since the start of the special military operation is that russia um embarked upon this military operation . so it won't have to do it again in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years. it wants

a final settlement, and that's what the west is and able to comprehend or agree to because it would mean losing. okay, and that's something they're not, they can contemplate at this point. but because they have their volunteer, not their victim in ukraine. this is a set of cards that they have. go ahead. well i, i think think i, the problem is that this is escalated so far out of control. i mean, the nato is recognizing that if russia prevails, this is effectively a loss of nato. and in the american military, leaders are saying the same thing that a interrupting like, but they're the ones that are making that decision. there's like, if we don't, we, and we will see that's very curious to me. okay. because nato could actually reinvent itself by saying we actually are a defensive military and we will not be a forwarded with these military adventures in outer area and stuff like that. maybe it's a self fulfilling prophecy. this is what they're saying about themselves. go ahead

. oh no, i agree with that. i think that would be a healthy development for nato as well. if they went back to the way they were during the cold war, which was a status school or one which did not expand than one which did not to intervene or attack other countries. so the, sorry about that could be a positive development. but i'm barbara, but my point was that the nato has kind of put it as political legitimacy now on, on the line. so can everyone has seemingly everything to lose now, which is why it's so difficult for all the parts to step back. because again, what, what russia once as a political settlement is to address who wasn't addressed after the cold war when it began to expand. it wants to have your p in security architecture which isn't based on the idea that stability derives from expanding. the american military lies closer and closer to russian border. so they need a solution that i need a settlement this and, and i do agree, i don't think a 10 per ceasefire while we work out the deal is possible because again,

i found out this, this would be seen as a simply having a time to take a break breath and, and re arm ukraine in the meanwhile, so, and also then to remember the means agreement from 2015. that person push ankle without an immediate use of or open while we were never planning to, instead of implement is a peace agreements. we were just buying time to our, our self us americans came in the trained our troops to build up from having nothing to biggest armies in europe. and also this is, i guess what the russians will be afraid of. so i agree, i think if is proposed to cease fire, i don't think russia would go along with a complete deal to reorganize european security. i don't think man would go along because i would diminish their role as the dominant for so that's why this is a scary, there's no going to be any way out of this yet because it, because george, this is a, a conflict. it never should have happened. there were so many ways, so many off rims. you and i talked about all 3 of us,

talked about this for hours and hours. you know, there's still a way out there still a way of and nonetheless, they decided to go down this path and it was perfectly predictable just as glens stated, to all of us. yeah, exactly. right. and then glen outline perfectly. now. it really is, it's hard to see how those get any kind of a meeting point, which isn't a total defeat on one side or the other because russia to accept anything like means 3. 0 would be complete defeat. i mean, you know, you mean you've gone through this 9 months of all these numbers casualties just to go back to an agreement that we know the west has absolutely no intention of hearing. so, you know, the, the sign. yeah. you're fine. you know, we'll have a new agreement and then they'll break it, you need it violated. so, and that now, and nato has drawn a line in the sand. the says, no,

we have to win this because if we don't, then you know, this is a complete defeat for the west. so it's hard to see how this any kind of a meeting, right? which means it's really, it's really disgraceful that nato identifies itself is being synonymous with the west. it's not ok that it, that's which really it's a, it's really, it's, it's crucial when you think about england, because this is all about a country that is not even in nato and the country that has no national security, vital interest to the west. but it does to russia, this was in pose. i keep saying, i know it's not popular. ukraine volunteered for this. and as we're speaking right now, there are you painting officials saying to ukrainians, if you can leave the country, leave me for the next 3 or 4 months. this is going to be really bad here. ok. this was all predictable one. yes. but even then, your kindness, not one entity in the sense because to say, well why doesn't?

so let's go sit down and talk. obviously if the lights are about to go off, you know, you're going to find 100000 russian troops about the storm. a time sit down but, but well, but you know, coming to some excuse defense if you will. if he would sit down and negotiate with russia, he doesn't have supreme control necessarily like what would happen with much of the military who upholstered in solution. they argue that he's not possibly in on this, and i would also point out what happened in the beginning cause. so let's get 1st was voted in, keep in mind he want 73 percent of the vote on the piece platform. so you can go online and you can find all the videos. he went to the front line, you talk to the awesome and disrupting about how i say listen, we agreed with total back our heavy weapons and they pretty much face to face. know that like i happen, we all are sent your letter. we will marshall you. if you're trying to impose a piece deal, even his own advisor and then to me 3 hours later, right. second, he told me he did an interview where he said, so let's go hanging the tree and give executed. that is if you trust implementing

that, he's his disagreement. so it might be about this is still the case. so i don't think that he has this complete freedom and control over the ukrainian arm either. i mean, but george's was perfectly predict will the united states doesn't have co equals in these conflicts. it has a supplicate and it's, and they, well again, they volunteered to be the proxy and all of this. and this is the outcome because the u. s. will print money that doesn't have, but it can't print weapons. it can't print ammo because that's where they are right now. the stock is stockpiles are empty. and now this is what we have here. and then then the, the what, oh, what about the oversight for all of this? i mean, this is all coming to a conclusion that was purely for predictable, at least in my mind. and i think in yours, yes, i mean, you grade is a holy subsidiary of the united states. and the united states continues with

disingenuous claims saying, well, we'll do this one will go on as long as ukraine wants it to go on to get to where we're leaving the final decision to you. great. so yes, we completely bank, rolling your grade, we're bankrupting ourselves by bank rolling. we're pouring in everything we have from a home or is into your grades. but the final decision is entirely grain. even though we know that the moment we cut off the spigot, ukraine will just stop, wouldn't be able to continue it one second longer or no, no. the final decision is what it's already disingenuous. but any of the nato countries, which are also complete public until the united states, go along with this nonsensical story that we had for richie, soon as the british prime minister was, it was in here the other day spouting this absolute nonsense with which everything is ready up to ukraine. i mean, you know, we, we don't have any say in this. i have a brain was nothing about your brain without your brain that's i will in the

program. i want to thing like it has the nice low in budapest. i think our viewers for watching us e r t c and x i remember ah ah, i 41 percent of us don't have enough savings to cover a 1000 dollar emergency. we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical that in america we do have a well 1st system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it's a conditional system you have to prove to the government that you truly need help. the simplest way, like explain the basic income, is that like social security for the rest of us, a basic income would be

a monthly payments that would go to everyone. does a $1000.00 a month, no strings attached about i will. i mean, i don't know. i just will go crazy. the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve it and just bad virtue of your being here. who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions. today russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. a list of course, as we speak, i believe in which the mind the we're we're banding all in ports of russian oil and gas, new g i g of with the letter from, you know, with joe biden,

imposing these sanctions on russia, you know, has destroyed the american economy, so there's your boomerang self. mo, it is the best of bulk. no issue. my good mobile, when you vision annual g d. p per capita is about $4000.00 euros. a molar, a washer. to sleep, a man. i got a new primary coffee seal from corpus really in kids, new prisoner, you find them all the love to come out so you can actually those thought they would have thought of unemployment is off the charts, moldova territorial integrity and sovereignty. we respect a country which enjoys financial support from the u. s. envy you is constantly

robbed by political and corruption scandals, but older didn't stop mo, google obtaining you candidate status in 2022. ah, a ukrainian military officer, post se, disturbing video online showing the apart and torture of that captured russian soldier. a warning you may find the following image is distressing. the un calls for a probe into the ukranian troops build allegedly executing russian prisoners of war . western news i'd, let's say it verified the video in a rare admission that tia forces could be committing with the cuban leader in moscow to meet with president vladimir putin.