hello and welcome to cross top, where all things are considered. i'm funeral about nato's ukraine. proxy war against russia almost spiraled out of control. after was erroneous, lee reported russia fired a missile into poland. zalinski regime and its many western bankers couldn't believe their good fortune. finally, there was justification to start a hot war against russia. alas, cooler heads prevailed, at least for now, ah, discuss these issues and more and joint budapest we have george semi welly. he's a podcast at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. li, since on this program we have been predicting such a possible predicament would face the world and almost went to article 4, which would be the step before article 5. and then we had them and nato power. and as i was to the knows why the nancy miss,

i got to think that within the capitals of nato, in particular, you crave, has just staged a false flag attack, trying to drag us into a nuclear war with russia. so to think george is right, i think there could have been, we have no evidence here. you don't have it or just the war have a hot war because weren't a proxy war right now. i don't understand these countries that want to join nato. want to destroy themselves in the process, your thoughts? well, i'm not sure about a speculation with ross or so. so again, so let's get dinner open. you would like to get more about that. he wants me to intervene in this war and ukraine size. so this would vary by, but even within your crane, it's not completely sure to what extent is putting all your ships in this fight firing missiles that i'm saying it could've been something a low level of missiles. i'm not sure how far you do this deliberately to get the

ball in tears. they didn't have the backing of the united states. so this is what makes it into a very complicated thing. because i mean by this continued support here, of course, the specter of new killer. a strike is on is on the table because of the continued support of by nato nations, particularly united states, another $37000000000.00 coming down the pipe way to want to kill russians. that's why it makes it so dangerous, george. yes, yes. extremely dangerous. as you say to hand, because ukraine has no hope of defeating russia. i mean, you great, only possible way out of this is to provoke a war between nato and russia, that it's only home because it's so everyone loses, george is out. night states knows that your grand cannot win this war,

and the only way you brain and prevail is by involving the united states in a shooting well with russia, the united states has been playing this game, you know, thinking well, this is good for us as long as we're weakening and we're damaging russia as long as we're hurting russia, destroying its economy, killing them, weakening them, then it's good for us. without thinking through the danger that the united states is quoting. so for the mary now to be upset with the ukrainians, to the extent that they are upset, historian and disingenuous. yes, this is exactly what was going to happen that ukraine strategy isn't. there's no other strategy other than i provoking a shooting war and you know, and again, we are where, where is this going to go? well that, that, that seems to be the only way that he can result because neither the united states nor you crate, nor anyone in nature seems to have any idea of how to bring any of this to an end

a barrel. and they do need to say what will be decided on the battlefield. well, how, what i was, i going to be decided on the battlefield. i mean, either it would defeat total defeat for ukraine or the complete destruction of his population, or nato will be involved in the shooting war, which, which again, is still quite a distinct possibility. you know, glen logic would dictate ok, politics and logic don't always get along very well. zelinski was very a, obviously he was lying about his interpretation of what happened here. and that, that sense, a chilling effect all through europe because that would be the extended battle field. and of course, you know, the united states, you know, looking and it's protege in, in, in camp as just the george has pointed out. is that to delete everyone down to the path of destruction? it seems to me that we had to cia director burns mean with his russian counterpart . i have to wonder if they just said, look, the russian,

you guys are going to do when you're going to do, and we're going to do what we're going to do. but neither one of us are going to entertain ever under any circumstances. nuclear weapons, is that, is that a sound theory? yes i, i think so because again, this is what boxers are usually about to fight with other people's armies. and again, i fear i would ask your listeners if they should bury the record directly from united states, which is a round report from 2019. that is a very well known thing. thank mainly from her memory because it has so close ties . who is said intelligence community in united states, it said that they have a hand in every war, you know, since her world war 2. but it was my, my point was that the outline misjudging 2019 how to weaken russian. and ukraine was a key component to said, you know, keep threatening nato expansion, giving you more weapons to ukraine, to hit on bus because they're more intensified, the more russia will be dragged them. and this would lead the russians in terms of

also money and people and people are getting killed, but also it sucks a lot of resources or more money to resources at russia, but has an additional benefit that is that the ukraine is becoming molded. awesome . anti european, as are anti russian countries, keep in mind when they were offered root native future mate. nato membership in 2008 does only about 20 to 25 percent where she wanted to be part of it. the majority had a negative view of nato and, or opposed to view of russia so, so having an anti russian ukraine seemed like impossible. but now, after russia's invasion, i think you know, that it can be an anti russian sentiment in ukraine for decades to come. it's not century, so i'm glad i heard i had that you have been here. i have to go to heartbreaking out of that hard break. we'll continue our discussion on so really stay with our tea. ah ah

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welcome back to crossed out here. all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. this is the home edition to remind you we're discussing some real. ah . okay, we're back from the break, glen you. right before we went to the break, you want to finish up the point, please go right ahead. yes. so my, my, my point was that the mission was to have a, a slow burning understand in europe, if you will, to slowly the russians. but the same round report warned that the, if the attempt us too much, russia begins to take territories and is this kind of development that's not in america interests. also august, the direct war between the united states and russia is also not in the us interest

. so, and this is where we're heading now because this is the tail wagging. the dog thing works in america might be dragged into a war which ends up in nuclear confrontation. there's nothing to us interests. so i think that this, this could have been a real mistake on the part of the ukrainians, because now the americans are very concerned that they might get pulled into a world like this. so, you know, georgia, i'm on our podcast to gaggle. you've sent it on a number of times and you've been very critical in some respects of the special military operation is that it's a conflict on the cheap. what seems like the major powers are using ukraine as a proxy on the cheap and you can't do it forever. okay? because number one, ukraine is being rounded into into dust. ok? it's, it's a, it's a electricity grid is as failing and that it will be completely failed within a matter of weeks with winter here. and that's, you know, the u. s. is the prospect of bits and proxy losing. on the other hand,

you have the american proxy in care that is threatening new killer armageddon for assault. so there's a lot of miscalculation going on here. does that account for? and i don't, i truly gentlemen don't have my head around who's really promoting negotiations. millie a so and then the russians, the villains gave what's going on here, george, can you make any sense of this all, or is this the father war and intentional dis information which comes with every conflict? go ahead, jordan. well i, i tend to think that there is a intentional disinclination. i mean, obviously they're arkansas among the u. s. military one to stand these things that ukraine cannot go on fighting this war forever. the casualties sustain on your end is that ultimately it's infrastructure can be totally just destroy it, to the point that it will be no power at all the entire country. so

i think that they probably do think it was about maybe maybe it's time for some sort of a ceasefire. a nice few months during which we can replenish the forces to revise your brains flagging fortunes. but without any sense of how you can bring this to an end and you know, little, you know, a isn't going to buy into any idea. well, let's just freeze everything in place 34 months. and then allow the nights they just replaced all of ukraine's losses. so that, that isn't happening, but there's also a often happens with the united states to kind of go to come back up routinely. you know, we haven't really, apparently, well, maybe should negotiate. and then you have

a hole in the state. and i know we have to head towards victory. so i think there's a lot of this information going on. i mean, the measure would be, is anyone coming out with any serious plan to do to negotiate? but you know, those are, this will be the 3 or 4 points that we would accept a for a final settlement. i don't see anything like that. so i'm kind of skeptical about the stories about america. but some sort of negotiation, you know, 2 words, final settlement. that's the key georgia, the key to all of this here, glenn, because, you know, you can talk about, you know, a cease fire prisoner exchange and all these kind of things. but that has nothing to do with the final settlement, and i've been adamant since the start of the special military operation is that russia um embarked upon this military operation. so it won't have to do it again in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years. it wants a final settlement,

and that's what the west is and able to comprehend or agree to because it would mean losing. okay, and that's something they're not, they can contemplate at this point. but because they have their volunteer, not their victim in ukraine. this is a set of cards that they have. go ahead. well i, i think think i, the problem is that this is escalated so far out of control. i mean, even nato is recognizing that if, if a russia prevails, this is effectively a loss of nato. and, you know, the american military leaders are saying the same thing that a interrupted like, but they're the ones that are making that decision. there's like, if we don't, we, and we will see that's very curious to me. okay. because nato could actually reinvent itself by saying we actually are a defensive military and we will not go forward with these military adventures in our area and stuff like that. maybe it's a self fulfilling prophecy. this is what they're saying about themselves. go ahead . oh no, i agree with that. i think that would be

a healthy development for nato as well. if they went back to the way they were during the cold war, which was a status school or one which did not expand than one which did not to intervene or attack other countries. so the, sorry about that could be a positive development. but i'm by, but my point was that the nato has kind of put it in as political legitimacy now on, on the line. so, can everyone has seemingly everything to lose now, which is why it's so difficult for all the parts to step back. because again, what, what russia once as a political settlement is to address who wasn't addressed after the cold war when it began to expand. who wants to have your p in security architecture, which isn't based on the idea that stability derives from expanding the american military lies closer and closer to russian border. so they need a solution that i need a settlement this and i do agree, i don't think a 10 per ceasefire while we work out the deal is possible. because again, as you pointed out this, this will be seen as a simply having a time to take

a break breath and, and re arm ukraine in the meanwhile. so, and also then to remember the means agreement from 2015. the person to shinkel you without an immediate use of or open while we were never in funding to instead of implement is a peace agreement. we were just the buying time to our marcellus americans came in, the trained, our troops who built up from having nothing to biggest armies in europe. and then also this, i guess what the russians will be afraid of. so i agree, i think if is proposed to cease fire, i don't think russia would go along. if there was a complete deal to reorganize european security, i don't think men would go along because i would diminish their role as the dominant for so that's why this is a scary. there's no, that doesn't seem to be any way out of this yet because it, because george, this is a, a conflict. it never should have happened. there were so many ways, so many off rims. you and i talked about all 3 of us, talked about this for hours and hours, you know, there's still

a way out. there's still a way of and nonetheless, they decided to go down this path and it was perfectly predictable just as glens stated, to all of us. yeah, exactly right. and then glen outlined it perfectly. now. it really is, it's hard to see how those get any kind of a meeting point, which isn't a total defeat on one side or the other because russia to accept anything like means 3. 0 would be complete defeat. i mean, you know, you mean you've gone through this 9 months of all these enormous casualties just to go back to an agreement that we know the west is absolutely no intention of hearing . so, you know, the, the sign. yeah. you're fine. you know, we'll have a new agreement and then they'll break it, violated. so, and that now, and nato has drawn a line in the sand. the says, no, we have to win this because if we don't, then you know, this is

a complete defeat for the west. so it's hard to see how this any kind of a meeting, which is, it's really, it's really disgraceful that nato identifies itself is being synonymous with the west. it's not ok that it, that's which really it's, it's really, it's is crucial when you think about england, because this is all about a country that is not even in nato and the country that has no national security of vital interest to the west. but it does to russia, this was in pose. i keep saying, i know it's not popular. ukraine volunteered for this. and as we're speaking right now, there are you training officials saying to ukrainians, if you can leave the country, leave me for the next 3 or 4 months. this is going to be really bad here. ok. this was all predictable one. yes. but even though you're kind of not one entity in the sense, because we say, well why doesn't? so let's go sit down and talk. obviously, if the lights are about to go off,

you know, you're going to find 100000 russian troops about the storm. a time, sit down but, but well, but you know, coming to something, excuse defense, if you will. if he would sit down and negotiate with russia, he doesn't have supreme control necessarily like what would happen with much of the military who opposes him in solution, argue that he's not possibly in on this. and i would also point out what happened in the beginning cause, so let's get 1st was to go to didn't keep in mind. he wants them to 3 percent of the votes on the piece platform that we can go online. and you can find all the videos, he went to the front line, you talk to the awesome and distracting, and that's how i say listen, we, we agreed with poodle back our heavy weapons and they pretty much face to face. know that like i happen, we all are sent your letter. we will marshall you. if you're trying to impose a peace deal, even his own advice, a leader right. second, he told you he did an interview where he said, so let's go hanging the tree and keep executed. that is, if you trust, implement this,

this disagreement. so it might be that this is still the case. so i don't think that he has this complete freedom and control over the ukrainian arm either. i mean, but george's was perfectly predict will be united states doesn't have co equals in these conflicts. it has a supplicant and, and they will again, they volunteered to be the proxy and all of this. and this is the outcome because the u. s. will print money that doesn't have, but he can't print weapons. they can't print ammo because that's where they are right now. these stocks stockpiles are empty. and now this is what we have here. and then then they is the what, oh, what about the oversight for all of this? i mean, this is all coming to a conclusion that was purely on predictable, at least in my mind. and i think in yours, yes, i mean, you grade is a holy subsidiary of the united states. and the united states continues with his disingenuous claims, saying, well, we'll do this one will go on as long as ukraine wants it to go into, you know,

we're, we're leaving the final decision to you. great. so yes, we completely bank, rolling your grade, we're bankrupting ourselves by bank, rolling it with touring in everything we have from our home or is into your grades . but the final decision is entirely ukraine. even though we know that the moment we cut off the spigot, ukraine will just stop. wouldn't be able to continue it one second longer. no, no, no. the final decision is what it's already disingenuous. but any of the nato countries, which are also complete public until the united states, go along with that nonsensical story that we had for richie, soon as the british prime minister was, it was in here the other day spouting the absolute nonsense with everything is really up to you, craig, i mean, you know, we don't have any say in this, which i don't have a brain was nothing about your brain without your brain. i said, well, in the program i want to thing like it has the nice low in budapest. i think our

viewers for watching us e r t c and x i remember ah, a vocal issue. but for the mobile one, annual g d p per capita is about $4000.00 euros. a with a level of thought they would have thought of unemployment is off the charts, moldova territorial integrity and sovereignty. we respect that the country which enjoys financial support from the u. s. n. b is constantly rolf by political and

corruption scandals. wow. but all that didn't stop mo, google obtaining you candidate status in 2022. 0, never be a good day for russia. we solution with newton are done by should look at a meal. crane more is a proxy war. this is a war between russia and the united states. naz on them are made. it comes to not should get them in carbon dioxide. america forces are and you're not in your engage in conflict with russian forges. the american forces are here and defend nato allies with nato escalades even more than the special military operation become a war when you. but they'll set of rules that national and that'll that doesn't is

my. i see it that i see your to us thinking costliest of me live. so i use please be sure you can use stuff to with almost them. let's see with only just finished there in your sewage near i speak of the girl who's so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy. even foundation, let it be an arms race is on offense. very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk ah, we inform the world community plant is at risk of

a new killer accident. russia warns of a potential nuclear catastrophe in europe. that would ology power plant again come down to ukranian shelling this weekend. it's as moscow holds like long to pull through the u n's, atomic watchdog over this area situation. the u. k is reportedly circumvent and it's owned by an owner, russian oil important shipment of russian crude arrived, london's official records makes no mention of old. the west france questions its own military presence in about a keen up fast. so i made a rising anti french and sent him on to the country. president micron. acute is russia up spreading this information in african.