both in brazil, economy and it's society, you know, i don't, i was there in the 1st and the ration because they were part of the government. i was part of me and i, i have been follow him because now in china and i see the same far the same energy wish to make a difference. what we need to call attention is that when he starts monday, paldon in general, the problem was i will think the same situation where we're now a lot of the crime related to forward the situation was not very good. we been through a lot of economics or more and i think he's back to the same point or being i was in the government of review for 30 years and seeing everything that you have done and it didn't work very hard. and now most one that came in the house to go

back is a very, very hard to age. and so i despise his age. we using our own 5 years to change everything. and i think also to be part of the. ringback brazil, i thought, and he also seems to be in a very good chain. before we discuss the particulars of brazilian life american politics. let me ask you one question about age because it's not just in brazil, but in many other countries. the united states, china, turkey, russia to name just a few. we have tried and tested leader is people who are roughly 70 years of age who, who, who been in politics for quite some time. and he and then now tasks with navigating countries through very fast change is how do you explain that phenomenal, because generally we think about older people as not very adaptable. i need to know it's a 3 question. why?

because i'll go i support that need to renovate the need to bring in people we need because we have a governance problem in the low. busy look, cause it might mean the crisis in terms of climate change. so we don't find the answer. so maybe the generation that. busy is that the best integration with 6 years old? be our last train or, or we feared the bull condition that jar. so people be like joe by then. busy then she present. busy we people that a truck that where we pass, so i leave, there is a psychological element, but out, so i and the mentor who nation of those that need to have more. i'm a more up to date. i'll go to. ready teaching cracks,

i think our neither ship we're not changing class so. so let me call me that we need to deal with because the young, the biggest, the a problem like my home or like, if you see they are for farmers, they are not, there would be, they don't, they would be, as you pointed out in one of your articles recently as a brazilian citizen, you feel happy in that western democracy still works at least and used to have in latin american. that sounds very cheeky. do you mean to imply that in other parts of america a vesting democracy doesn't work? yeah. what do you play that the goals that we can get? the peoplesoft will be here, but what is the concepts of western democracy? right? the majority you choose, the leaders, the keys are not to say that the majority does not to the leaders because the

majority, the, the former lacks president. trump was not that much. the majority has to be deal or not. so in other places around the. ringback western i'm here we have for example, you can go to europe and we see the both to be private or all the land. some right there are left with 30 percent of the nation. so these does not go toward the concept that we like to move in west, and so they gave a brazil definite exhibit the colonial. he's an exemplary that he's a max equal the majority of the relation i have both and that's my point. that's my so going with, you know, a couple of years ago i myself had a chance to interview president lula, and he said that that time i think it was 2900 probably that he had

no doubt about the support for him among the common folks, but he was complaining that the brazilian ruling class can do anything without 1st consulting with the united states. so essentially, many of the decisions in his view and that kind of where our source to the decision makers in washington do you think that is still in a problem in brazil? and if so, how do you think you should address it? i think that's her mother's discussion in terms of how last in america being a modern economic right. we had for some time of defending. so if you're not a is not to say defenders, but we have either recommendation. so when you were talking about the right wing, or the nominal, the leak in latin america, they came to united states, they're, they've green, i t, but i think it's not only united states. we have this in different countries,

even in russia, you know, a good part of the russian board or doing the strike at home and the united states in other we even in china. so because there's not a marketing dreaming place. so i think it's natural from latin america to have that because you are a cool. so president who was worried that we try to americanize policy lunch. so in the case of a fair number, that's what it was. nation, we have what we call direct alignments with paul if that comes from washington, not only from the washington, but even late, they're all in our view, the president, all of you with the lack of latin america, we need to negotiate. why need to respect the maybe if you're be or is more cuz we need to be in the same level. that's one person who is going to fight for. that's what latin america want to. we are not the backyard of united states. you're not

the jago who we are neighbor and we need to respect each other. now, as you pointed out to me as little as victory, 6 largest economies in latin america, brazil, mexico, argentina, chile, colombian, peru now governed by the left, its bodies, not counting other countries like cuba. and believe in doris, who have had that trajectory for quite some time now, and the person was born and the soviet union, and i think was conditioned to sort of be somewhat shameful. of my country's socialist pass. i want to ask you, specifically, how do you think the, the left of the 21st century will be different from the last of the 20th century. and are there any last them that have to be kept in the, in the front of politicians? mine, i think the good news for the less is that we understand that will be changing

rapidly. social movements. they change wrap. before when we are talking about last you are talking about economic model. when will need the model? many people talk now about not norma model mean we're going to be capitalism. but how we prove that, going through that, you know, my point here when we are talking last the last in america, use that. ringback we want to challenge capitalism is not the point for the lack of latin america. we weren't to change those. and that's a little different. why? because we know that these states even cow marks. when he was writing he, i writing about capitalism. he was not writing about kobinie is most social and so there is a promotion in that process. so the most important part of the last is that the capital is. busy locked in america because is the region what,

what we call wildcat. so money buys every money is the most important. so you get the life of the so the last in latin american there stand that we need to teach and we can work in the system. that's the 1st to be care off. so we need to understand that in order to have more than is ation of the colony digitization climate issue. ringback all these, i think the last not to discuss is that's why we as you cited, we have the majority, the latin american people, they know when come on, that is their care for the people, not the whole money that you suggested in your writing. and then you turn to the left has an international dimension to use and just to the present, luna lula can formulate a joint plan for developing countries in this new era. and it's an interesting

thing to think about because over the last couple of decades, the developed world excelled in offering various developmental frameworks to the 3rd world. countries, the frameworks that more often than not were used to serve the benefactor rather than beneficiary. do you think brazil and other countries will be able to resist that temptation to plunder the weaker side and the do you think they will succeed in being sort of fair and measured in the way they share the ideology or the economy with others? yeah, i'm not sure if we're going to succeed because then that will war. ringback but, but even going to fight, because when you're fighting for these elements, we are fighting, not for that, that will cause me as i heard we're fighting for people. we have more than 3 point

one, being the people living in a large proportion of these, the even more areas in the yard doing to ation hunger in her important point. we never had such a big knology cvt cord. wow. any, here we are, the director general, the general united nation who is doing do man a nation open in new york. he mentioned that out of the 7 gene s e g, g. so they will develop go, we did that. she was not me or what she and you're ok, this is, this is the data and we have their corporate deviation, who will be a climate change for me to develop? so we don't have a problem. we have a minor problem here off taking a short break,

but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned for me . i l look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point obviously is too great truck rather than fear i would like to take on various job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a

robot must protect its own existence with ah ah ah

welcome back to the point with alessandra columbia, the sheriff, professor of public policy in cross university school of public policy and management professor, as you mentioned before the you how many high ranking positions within the brazilian government before taking on teaching and yet given your very expensive practical and academic expertise in economics. i wonder if your understanding of how global economy functions, how it succeeds and how it falters, hasn't changed in any way over the last couple of months because of many countries . thing. the many countries were exposed to things that they believed were impossible before. no, i, i think i need that is, i will, 2 decades in politics there will be review in international missions we are

and then the of the will call me we understand that and understand that we need to understand the human di and that's what society are not federal people so so that's. ready important in before break it, we're finding that we have many problems in the problem has been raising like climate change, like it's damaged. then like robert e, like hunger in those problems. very being and not the we are single solution. so i don't think i can solve the problem. we need to have collective leadership, and that's what i keep missing. we have sensors. everybody is more capitalism and the g need you all the options, but we need to understand that we don't get out of damage. we've changed climate

change or better if we work together. it is not war, need to be action. and that's now you pointed in one of your articles because the west to believe in the industrial revolution. and because it led the transformation from national history into world history, people around the world till time to see westernization as, as synonymous with modernity. despite the fact that i would actually have produced many of the problems that you actually cited right now, and that brought humanity on the, on the cost of this ecological and konami disaster. now, how long do you think the world will subscribe to this notion that despite everything the west still knows what's best for the rest? why thank you very quickly. we're going to see the next 5 years or so. asia,

for example, already we parking 45 percent of the didn't we, we the china already as the 2nd, the owner of the world. there is going to be countries that you never heard that he's wet and haven't heard. like people need malaysia borgia, the people they have in our culture, especially not married. and we don't know very much. what did you know? and i always think that you were even need more than 200. mean people in the article goes by 7000. i 7000 and. ringback they are now the leader of the 24 these year. so we need to get the nation malaysia over 200000000 people. so, so that's very border and they have a different perspective. they have different law offices. we tell that he's what we think. and there is a lot of discussion about the clash of civilizations, you know,

where the western civilization, the americans, because the north americans, they are alive like brazil. one, remember always that that's very bored the united states in brazil where this colbert, by the real beans, in the, for the end of the parking there are being, they discover america by a mistake, not mine, but because they want to go around dirt ish area that they pine, the also money buyer because they want to go with the china, the media to the 3. so we're talking with people like, yeah, like china, 3005000 years after my knowledge that professor don't you respect the, i think the way the americans or the westerners want to do business now is a little bit differ. and then it was that those historic times and one could argue that the global economy, as it exists today, or at least as it was envisioned,

is sort of based on this idea that the west will provide the rest of the world with technology and finances. while getting in return consumer goods and natural resources. and i think one can argue with reliance on data that western companies or western countries often use that dominant position to secure better prices, cheaper prices for themselves. so, you know, using your analogy with the colonization, it was always a little bit of glass beads for gold exchange. do you think the, well, the western economies can sustain themselves by themselves without this, in built on their exchange or in build this balance? no, you cannot. i'm taking, i'm historically explanation because that's what appear. but if you, even if you're talking about the largest banking, the world,

you nation financial at least 5 to 6, our chinese you are talking about large corporations, let's say taken all as a company. what we call unicorn is that the order would be and we have, let's say $4500.00 was in the world. we have more than $100.00 chinese. so, so i think the bottom of the column is getting out from the west on this to the asian. and that is the change. it is a change how to business. there is a change of culture, there is a lot of change or one of the elements they like the thought we know, let's say i think in the logical platform for the youngsters right now to see if you go to america. ready or everybody, you know, body or very few people know that you were chinese and you start char. so these things, you changing will change because these ages can be going to lead knowledge

going to lead production. and they were leaving the service and they platform economy. ringback so that is the change, and that's why united states in europe are so concerned with china. that's why you have, you're not a commercial. i see the logical sanction by the leadership so. so that's not very important for us. now you mentioned that they're very concerned. i think that's a very diplomatic term, perhaps owning to your experience in the international negotiations, but they seem to be pretty aggressive when it comes to dealing with china. and i don't know if you've seen it. the german magazine spiegel recently published a dropped copy of germany strategies of china, which explicitly states that they will give the priority to human rights issues. and the way they defined human rights issues to economic cooperation and in dire

interpretations when it comes to human rights. there would be no cultural or religious relativity that you are talking about. they insist only on diet trig vision of how it's supposed to be. 5 do you think it's a viable framework for cooperation? no, i think your radical framework that reality doesn't the thing and that's what i thought we have the chancellor of germany came to visit china. they have this framework from china. they know that they will not succeed or know by right, because again, they have problems inside german eyeball you were right, we believe the boy peter's everybody has. ringback the ceiling, the glass ceiling, right? so, so that's very important for the miles away. they have they, what is the tendency not to say they want to do radical framework or political

work? they were going to be hired. we go to who did that, but they changed, for example, last week. did you? well, joe biden, sad that he's not the rival, china, he's that you see that you're gonna more calibrate because there is no purchase as the coupling everybody, you know, you're not going to. ringback from china, you talked to debbie. oh, can you can you diminish here? yeah, because he's currently americans. they will not have their christmas. they will not . they isn't. that is not that will be how we part. so that's a very important many years of promising in working together in the company from china. they go to a couple where because it, and that's my message. there is no any more. i'm by myself. can i ask you

one more thing about the practical reality? because i know that you how brazil's efforts in the context of bricks, this is such an interesting grouping. it was, if i remember correctly, started as a really a marketing ploy to sell shares of developing countries. but slowly and surely, it developed into a viable organization that now seems to expand. how do you see the purpose of bricks at this point of time and wonder thing this form? i can offer that other groupings cannot. it's very good that you asked me to bring in the nation the president lula and president. busy the death some time ago, right before the 1014 so in a lot of people will see that these will not be sustainable. because looking, cuz wisdom is such a different background, such a different agenda and different geography. i mean, there, there are literally,

in my point to the beginning because there wasn't wrong, there was in the meeting that is via number one viable because we shared the same necessity. we share that assistance breaks off warm or voice. well, developing countries will try bower more the world between these, these economic, between developed and developing countries. number one, number 2, we learn who respects our difference in the work together. and then when we keep the shot and we've each other, we know we're is thrown, we can have a voice, a lot of things to be billed. so we believe when we create the national develop, the new develop bank is be we have the date, this is going to call the bank of the grid, right? rick bank, and our people. it was that we need, we sark,

s for good. we've been fired and then we need to expand because the, the idea was who, who i for develop because we need to know or do something different. exactly. the question that us sions, after i read the was they are moke by western one western europe in another state and they don't work. we need to do that in the news. one of the nice from is you mentioned the brakes became a platform for giving a voice to developing countries. but i'm hearing more and more from various analysts that it's actually became a practical tactile ground for how to do trade and business with that without the western financial pressure. so essentially testing various ways of parking, dancing with the western financial and trade infrastructure. do you agree that that

is finding a new purpose right now? why? because we have different media group in trade. we need that. so is that what not the objective and or, and the objective, what will have a better coordination will need to go discussion board as a mechanism. that's why you will have a secret there. yeah, that's why whoever will be president. ok. but of course, because this is also. ringback i hope in the future that's my personal hope that we can have a trade not only bilateral free, but the side of the lateral reading, the breaks where we don't need commercializing dollar where we can use the great currencies. busy to do that, that would be a brit cool. you know, so that's my expect as well. perhaps we have time for thank you very much for being

on our show. thank you very much rushing. i'm thank you for watching and hope to hear again the same place. same time on a well apart from me, the me ah, lou needs to come to the russians state little narrative. i've stivers on the most landscape div asked me, i'm not getting calls all sunset for a group in the 55 when. okay,

so 9 is gonna be the one home with we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia for date and support r t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube with requests with mm. ah, ah, [000:00:00;00]

a with 10 round going to be looking at the coordinates provided by a rush or not so positions with facts, right? q 3 and the new republic britain is its own warning regarding ukraine, saying weapons sent to the conflict may end up in terrorism. a central because it already is our national interest, hungary, a foreign minister says nuclear cooperation with russia in his country's national