i wonder if you see any contradiction between his age and he has promised us to rejuvenate both for brazil's economy and its society. you know, i don't, i was there in the 1st and the ration because they were part of the government. i was part of me and i, i have been follow him because now on china and i see the same far the same energy wish to make a difference. what we need to call attention is that when we start monday. busy and in general, the problem re review was i will see the same situation where we are now a lot of the crime related to the situation was not very good. we've been through a lot of economics or more. and i think he's back to the same point in or been, i was in the government of review for 30 years and seeing everything that you have

done and it didn't work very hard. now almost one decade in the house, go back in the very, very hard to age and so i despise his age. we using our own prior will change everything. and i think also to be part of the brazil i thought, and he also seems to be in a very good chain. before we discuss the particulars of brazilian life and american politics. let me ask you one more question about age because it's not just in brazil, but in many other countries. the united states, china, turkey, russia, to name just a few. we have tried and tested leader is people who are roughly 70 years of age. who bit who, who been in politics for quite some time and he and then now tasked with navigating countries through very fast change is how do you explain that phenomenon? because generally we think about older people as not very adaptable. i

need to know it's a 3 question why? because i'll go i support that need to renovate the need to bring in people we need because we have a governance problem in the lo. busy look, cause i mean the cries isn't there is a climate change. so we don't find the answer. so maybe the generation that. busy is that the best in ration we've 6 years old? be our last train or we feared the bull condition that jar. so people be like joe by then. busy then she present. busy we people that they trust that where we pass. so i leave that he's a psychological element, but also i and the mentor who nation of those that need to have

more. i'm a more up to date. i'll go to. ready teaching craft, i think our neither ship we're not changing class so. so let me that cost me that we need to deal with. because the young, the biggest, the a problem like my home or like if you feed their for farmer, they are not, there would be, they don't, they would be, as you pointed out in one of your articles, recently as a brazilian citizen, you feel happy and that western democracy still works at least and used to have in latin american. that sounds very cheeky. do you mean to imply that in other parts of america rescue democracy doesn't work? yeah. what do you play that the goal that we can get? the peoplesoft will be here, but what is the concepts of western democracy? right?

the majority you choose the leaders to think that the majority does not to the leaders because the majority of the former lacks president. trump was not that much. the majority has to be deal or not. so in other places around the. ringback western and here we have for example, if we go to europe and we see the both be prime interest or some, right, if there are less than 20 percent of the, of the nation. so these does not go toward the concept that we like to move in west . and so you gave a brazil definite exhibit cologne. yes, he's an exemplary that he's a max equal the majority of the relation i have both and that's my point. that's my going to, you know, a couple of years ago i myself had a chance to interview president lula, and he said that that time,

i think it was 2900 probably that he had no doubt about the support for him among the common folks but he was complaining that the brazilian ruling class can do anything without 1st consulting with the united states. so essentially many of the decisions and his view and that time where our source to the decision makers in washington, do you think that is still in a problem in brazil? and if so, how do you think you should address it? oh, i think that's her mother discussion in terms of how last in america be modern economic right. we had for some time of defending. so not a is not to say defendant, but we have the recommendation. so when you were talking about the right wing, or the nominal, the leak in latin america, in the united states, they've green i t,

but i think it's not only not i think we have this in different countries, even in russia. we know a good part of the russian board or doing the strike at home in the united states in other we even in china. so because there's not a marketing dreaming place. so i think is natural from latin america to have that because you are a cool. so president who was that we try to americanize policy to lunch. so in the case of a fair number, that's what it was. nation, we have what we call direct alignments, with the policy that comes from washington, not only from the washington, but even later on in our view, the president, all of you when the last locked in america, we need to negotiate why need to respect was amended if you are be or is more cuz we need to be in the same level. and that's what the person who is going to fight

for. that's what latin america. once we are not the backyard of united states, you're not the yard. we are neighbor and we need to respect each other. now, as you pointed out, miss littlest victory. the 6 largest economies in latin america, brazil, mexico, argentina, chile, colombian, peru now governed by the left. it's body's not counting other countries like cuba and believe in doris, who have had that trajectory for quite some time now. and the person was born and the soviet union and i think was conditioned to sort of be somewhat shameful. of my country's socialist pass. i want to ask you, specifically, how do you think the, the left of the 21st century will be different from the last of the 20th century. and are there any last them that have to be kept in the, in the front of politicians line?

i think the good news for the less use that we understand that will be changing rapidly. social movements. they change wrap before when we are talking about last you were talking about economic model in a political model. many people talk now about not norma model. mean, we're going to be capitalism, but how we prove that, prove that, you know, my point here when we are talking last the last in america use that. ringback we want to challenge capitalism, is not the point for the lack of latin america. we weren't change capital, that's a little different. why? because we know that these states even cow marks. when he was writing he, i writing about capitalism. he was not writing about kobinie is most social and so there is a promotion in that process. so the most important part of the last is that the

capital is. busy latin america because is a develop region what, what we call wildcat. so money buys every money is the most important. so you get the life of the so the last in latin american there stand that we need to teach and we can work in the system. that's the 1st to be care off. so we need to understand that in order to have more than is ation of the colony digitization climate issue. so. ringback all these, i think the last is not discussed and that's why we as you cited, we have the majority of the latin american people, they know when come on, that is their care, corporate people, not the whole money. but he also suggested in your writing that this and you turn to the left has an international dimension to use. and just to the present, luna lula can formulate

a joint plan for developing countries in this new era. and it's an interesting thing to think about because over the last couple of decades, the developed world excelled in offering various developmental frameworks to the 3rd world. countries, the frameworks that more often than not we're used to serve the benefactor rather than beneficiary. do you think brazil and other countries will be able to resist that temptation to plunder the the weaker side and the do you think they will succeed in being fair and measure in the way they share the ideology or the economy with others? yeah, i'm not sure if we're going to succeed because then that will war. ringback but, but even going to fight, because when you're fighting for these elements, we are trying to be not because we were fighting for people,

we have more than 3 point one being the people in a large proportion of these, the even worse areas in the yard doing to ation 100. in her important point, we never had such a big knology and proven cvt cord. wow. any here we korean hunger, the director general, the general united nations who is doing the nations open in new york. he made sure that out of the 7 gene s e g, g. so they will develop go, we did that, that she was not me or what she in your ok, this is, this is the data and we have their property, asian,

or we thought is asian climate change for me to develop? so we don't have a problem. we have a minor problem here off taking a short break, but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned for me . i ah need to come to the russian state little narrative. i've studied as i phone and ignore some scheme div. mm hm. and i'm not getting calls all set up for a week within the 55. would this be okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else with we

will van in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machines, the state on russia for date and school r t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube with ah, ah ah,

welcome back to wells of course, with alessandro columbia, to share a professor of public policy at some cost university school of public policy and management professor, as you mentioned before, the break or you how many high ranking positions within the brazilian government before taking on teaching and you had given your very expensive practical and academic expertise in economics. i wonder if your understanding of how global economy functions, how it succeeds and how it falters, hasn't changed in any way over the last couple of months. because, you know, many countries think that many countries were exposed to things that they believed were impossible before. no, i think i, i need that is, i will say 2 decades in politics. derek will review an international missions

and then the ocean of the will call me we understand of the bushes and understand that we need to understand the of human d and i, that's the society are not a federal people so, so that's the most important in, before the break and we're finding that we have many problems in the problem has been raising like climate change, like it's damaged, then like poverty, like hunger in those problems. very being and not the we are single solution. so i can solve that problem. no, we need to have collected leadership, and that's what i keep missing. we have sensors. everybody is more or 5 of capitalism and the g need you all the options. but we need to understand that we don't get out of damage. we don't change climate change

or better if we work together or not work needs to be action. and that's the now you've pointed in one of your articles because the west to believe in the industrial revolution and because it led the transformation from national history into world history. people around the world still time to see westernization as, as synonymous with modernity. despite the fact that i would actually have produced many of the problems that you actually cited right now, and that brought humanity on the, on the cost of this ecological and konami disaster. now, how long do you think the world will subscribe to this notion that despite everything the west still knows what's best for the rest? well, i think it changes very quickly. we go to the next 5 years or so. asia, for example, already we parking 45 percent of the global didn't we?

we could china already as a 2nd, the owner of the world. there is going to be countries that you never heard that he's wet and haven't heard. like nisha, malaysia borgia, the people they have in our culture, especially not a marathon. we don't know very much. what did you know? and i always think that you were even need that cause we have almost more than 200 mean people in the article goes by 7000 i 7000 and. ringback they are now the leader of the 24th year. so we need to be a nation malaysia over 200000000 people. so, so that's very border and they have a different perspective. they have different laws. we tell that he's what we think, and that is a lot of discussion about the clash of civilizations. you know,

where the western civilization is, the american because the north americans lived like brazil was remember, always, that's very bored. the united states in brazil, where discover by the real beans in the for the end of the parking there'll be they discover america by a mistake, not mine, but because they want to go around dirt ish area that they pine. the also money buyer because they want to go with the china, the media to the tree. so we are talking with people like, yeah, like china, 3005000 years after my knowledge that perhaps if you don't respect the, i think the way the americans or the westerners want to do business now is a little bit differ. and then it was that those historic times and one could argue that the global economy, as it exists today, or at least as it was envisioned,

is sort of based on this idea that the west will provide the rest of the world with technology finances while getting in return consumer goods and natural resources. and i think one can argue with reliance on data that western companies or western countries often use that dominant position to secure better prices, cheaper prices for themselves. so, you know, using your analogy with the colonization, it was always a little bit of glass beads for gold exchange. do you think the, well, the western economies can sustain themselves by themselves without this, in built on their exchange or in build this balance? no, not taking, i'm historically explanation because that's what appear. but if you, even if you're talking about the largest banking, the world,

you nation financial at least $56.00, our chinese you are talking about large corporations. let's say ology. copeland is what we call unicorn, is that the order would be and we have, let's say $4500.00 with the walls. we have more than $100.00 chinese. so so i think the bottom of the column is getting out from the west on this to the asian. and that is the change. there is a change. how to business. there is a change of culture, there is a lot of change or the. ready one of the elements they like the thought, you know, let's say i think in the logical platform for the youngsters, right? if you go to see if you go. ready in america. ready or everybody, you know, body or very few people know that you were chinese and you start char. so these things, you changing will change because these ages be going to lead into knowledge

going to lead production. and they were leaving the service and they the platform economy. so that is the change. and that's why united states in europe are so concerned with china. that's why you have was not a commercial. i see a logical sanction by the leadership. so. so that's a very important point that us now you mentioned that they're very concerned. i think that's a very diplomatic term, perhaps owning to your experience in the international negotiations. but they seem to be pretty aggressive when it comes to dealing with china. and i don't know if you've seen it, the german magazine speaker recently published a drop copy of germany's strategy visa, china, which explicitly states that they will give the priority to human rights issues. and the way they defined human rights issues, to economic corporation and in their interpretations. when it comes to human rights,

there could be no cultural or religious relativity that you are talking about. they insist only on diet trig vision. know how it's supposed to be. 5 do you think it's a viable framework for cooperation, though i think your radical framework that's in the reality doesn't the thing. and that's what i thought we have. the chancellor of germany came to visit china. they have this framework from china. they know that they will not succeed or nobody's going to see, right. because again, they have problems inside german eyeball you were right, we believe the boy peter's, everybody has. ringback healing the glass ceiling, right? so, so that's very important for the miles away. they have they, what is the tendency not to say they want to do radical framework or political

work? say we're going to be hired. we go to who did that, but they changed, for example, last week we did well, joe biden, sad that he's not the rival, china, he's that you see that you're gonna more calibrate your speech because there is no purchase the company, everybody. you know, you're not going to. ringback from china, you talked to debbie. oh, can you can you diminish here? yeah. because the currently americans, they will have the christmas. they will not. they even that is not. that will be how we part. so that's a very important many years of promising in working together in the company from china. they go to a couple where because it, as i said in my message, there is no any more. i'm by myself. can i ask you one more thing about the

practical realities? because i know that you, how brazil's efforts in the context of bricks, this is such an interesting grouping. it was, if i remember correctly, started as a, a marketing ploy to sell shares of developing countries. but slowly and surely in develop into a viable organization that now seems to expand. how do you see the purpose of bricks at this point of time? and what do you think this form i can offer that other groupings cannot? it's very good that you asked because the start with the nation, the president lula and president. busy the death some time ago, right before 2014. so in a lot of people will see that these will not be sustainable. because looking with respect to different backgrounds such as different about gender and different

geography. i mean, there are literally in my point to the beginning because there was in the government, there was in the meeting that is via number one viable because we shared the same necessity. we share that assistance, breaks off warm work, voice, developing countries who try bower more de won't be doing this. these are not make your between develop and developing countries. number one, number 2, we learn who respects our difference in the work together. and then when we didn't jot, we've each other. we know we're is we can have a voice, a lot of things to be billed. so we believe when we create the national develop, the new develop bank is b. we haven't got a whole bank of the grid, right. and people it was that we need,

we're sorry for good. we've been quiet and then we need to expand because the idea was a voice or develop because we need to know or do something different exactly. the question that us sions, after i read the was they are moke by western one. ringback western europe in another state, and they don't who are we need to do that in the brick is one of the part, the nice from is you mentioned the brakes became a platform for giving a voice to developing countries. but i'm hearing more and more from various analysts that it's actually became a practical tactile ground for how to do trade and business with that without the western financial pressure. so essentially testing various ways of talking, dancing with the western financial and trade infrastructure. do you agree that it's,

it's the finding a new purpose right now. why? because we have different media group tray. we need to. ringback is that what not the objective and or, and the objective, what will have a better coordination discussion board as a mechanism. that's why you will have a secret there. yeah. that's why you will never will be president. ok. but for the call to quit, this is it was, it was. ringback i hope in the future, that's my personal hope that we can have a trade not only bilateral rig, but the side of the ladder. reading the breaks where we don't need to commercializing dollar where we can use the great currencies. busy to do that, that would be a brit cool. you know, so that my expect as well, perhaps this is all we have time for. thank you very much for being on our show you

very much and thank you for watching the whole history again. same place, same time on the walls, apart from me me ah, a digital collaboration graphic get what is the best time in which was the about them? this is a little bit of a lady with what i see school of

a car. what report that what's but something, something that might give me a national krinski part of it, which it, it said to jeff. so i knew the minimum is gone, can be comma lucito, and the communist somebody and the community that the comma a lovely knob is all supposed to start out. they can sort of affect it or only out of the july, the media with us, that's clear. but, but then which the routing just spoken to me, right? nobody for you to plug into the office open at them during the summer because of my seat. not that it was with chris, will it was, it was the case then you big as to where for you will that they should. i see it appears to notice to pick up that were still

a when of, of 11. i think it was a british law enforcement official in charge of fighting, organized cry, more about masters of weaponry being sent to you. great. could find their way back to the u. k. in the hands of terrorists also coming up with round going to be launched. cordless provided by a r t. crew of jurors. russian artillery positions within close range of ukrainian forces amid persistent attacks like military in the loop galaxy republic with nuclear to be essentially because the audience i'm actually speaking to this general hungary, foreign minister say.