on the whole, the process team are getting in place. they close for peter and guess right ahead, this is are the oh the the the news the news news. hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle with its infrastructure being degraded and the weather turning into winter. ukraine faces the stark prospect of becoming a failed state. no amount of western arms can change that harsh reality. why should

it in kev have demonstrated they have no real interest in negotiations? ukraine faith has been sealed. the the cross talking the conflict in ukraine. i'm joined by my get sill geraldo and percival. he's a former ca counterterrorism specialist in bangkok we have bryan for let's say he is a political analyst and a former us marine. and in dublin because she's both, he's an independent commentator and writer, or a gentleman, cross type rules and effect, that means he can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, let's go to 1st to philip philip mode of alabama, at least at this moment, the website they lead article is no way to peace without further war. i think got some set up really well, considering we've had all of this ridiculous hot air coming out of washington, brussels, and care about what a negotiated end would be. they're not interested in. it isn't, in fact they want to keep this war going on as long as possible,

which will feel ukraine fate. go ahead philip. yeah, well, i think that's an accurate analysis that you just given the. the fact is that the, the people in washington were really matter, the ones who are making the decisions on all those sort of thing. have repeatedly said that there are washing their hands of negotiations because it's up to kiev, which of course, it's not. and they have also indicated very clearly that the united states objective in what it's doing in, in ukraine and in the neighboring regions is intended to weaken russia. that's the objective of all this. so it's kind of a fantasy approach to say that what that is occurring is all about democracy promotion or protecting the rights of smaller countries. this is, this is all nonsense. okay. essentially the same question for brian in bangkok here,

because with this determination to keep the war going on, i think it's ukraine, that's going to be completely utterly destroyed in the process, which is really quite interesting is what leader of a country would willingly get on for that kind of campaign because zalinski saying, you know, has its demands. who wants public negotiations and all this, which they know the russian side will never accept. and why would they ukraine never kept its, its word. when it came to the minister agreements, france didn't do a germany, didn't do it. so i mean, what's the whole point of all this ridiculous talk of negotiations when it's not in good faith? go ahead, brian and bangkok, this was the whole purpose of getting a client regime and to power in 2014, in the 1st place. to put a group, a circle of interest into power in kiosk that would irrationally lead the country down the path toward proxy war and ultimate destruction at the hands of russia,

but also at the hands of their western sponsors were slowly and shortly feeding them into this this grinder essentially, unfortunately. okay, well is go to dublin shay essentially the same question to you because i mean, as, as were sitting down right now, the u. s. is having to have to restock it, stock piles, wanting needing to buy ammunition from south korea and all the while the media is saying that russia is on its last gas. you know, the morale is low. there's though, i mean it's actually everything is completely upside down. ok. been and, and what we're looking at and then we, they talk about, you know, being able to retake territory. ok. we taking the territory the size of delaware. oh my goodness. ok. is it that's going to change anything? the calculus here that should be put into play? it's not what moscow is going to control. it's what give is going to control and with its infrastructure being degraded, it's not going to be very much go ahead in dublin. yeah, of course,

and then as brian will, you know, sort of also back me up. i mean, this also feeds into the narrative about these a huge weapons packages. and, you know, brian speaks very, you know, conclusively about the value of the quality of what's actually being shift now into ukraine. the weather's running dry. it seems to all objective observers, you know, you see, you know, huge convoys of destroyed us, british and the other nato countries, supply equipment. but this is the bed of pure campaign. essentially. it's about, you know, making big announcements about large weapons packages. it's about, you know, feeding that narrative too, and increasingly skeptical west in population who are starting to see big social problems with their deep, huge wave ukrainian refugees that have arrived into europe. they're also starting to see the impact of huge energy prices and costs as well. it's getting cold. now, the front lines are beginning to freeze as well in ukraine and defenders advantage,

which was in ukraine's favor. now, militarily, as, as russia, you know, at retreats into more prepared for positions that advantage is with russia now. and as they build this huge and mobilized army. and, you know, i think the idea that russia is beaten is a convenient and propaganda ploy. there's no bearing in reality and i'm sure brian would would elaborate on that. ok, well, well, phil appear. as i said in my introduction, no amount of arms is going to change the calculus on the ground. i mean, i'm one of the, probably the last person, the world that would quote joseph burrell, but it will be settled on the battlefield. and there's really nothing outside of a direct nato intervention which they would lose if they did. i mean, they're using ukraine as a proxy. now the ukranian army was destroyed in the summer. now they're fighting nato ok with ukrainian soldiers and others soldiers wearing ukrainian uniforms

there. but there is no reckoning that this strategy is working whatsoever. again, i want to stress the infrastructure of the country is being degraded in the middle of winter. how can this continue on philip? well, i mean, if i were seriously involved in making decisions, i would say no, it can't go on. and i would point out the sensually that i think even the, even the parties involved clearly understand if this is ultimately only going to be several through negotiations that recognize the actual russian interest. this is always been the stumbling blocks in the beginning that the united states and its allies basically didn't want to accept that russia had actual national security interests that were of the existential for the country. and they walked away from those sort of actually they're going to have to walk back to it. ok,

everybody, everything that bill just said, write it on a posted and put it in your wallet because that's the best summation that we've had thus far in this conflict here. brian, you're not in your head. why go ahead? but why i agree. i agree with both of your other gaps. now looking at these packages, looking at how the west is trying to sell the wave as conflict as unfolding. and then just scratching a little bit under the surface, the u. k. claiming since june, they've trained 7000 ukrainian soldiers. when you look at the details, they're taking a 6 month course and condensing it in 5 weeks. and this is what they are introducing raw recruits to. this is essentially sending them to death and the fee on the battlefield. and this is the same pattern that goes across everything the us and its allies are doing. and in regards to this proxy more so it's just going to be a matter of how long they can stretch out this narrative until it crashes head on into reality. well i think brian, you're right, if i go to shane and dublin and because then domestic politics comes into play,

when there is no breakthrough in the, in the, on the battlefield. but your electricity bill, your fuel bill, your food bill continues to climb and, and your, your, your public leaders not reacting to that. ok. i mean the, the, the what the, the german foreign minister is, you know, you, i don't care what my voters say. ok, that's, that's going to come and haunt the entire european union and eventually the united states because a whole was the whole globe itself is suffering because of the arrogance of these decision makers go ahead in dublin. yeah, i think it also brings into focus how quickly russian economic power and importance to the global economy was, was dispelled. it was a, a gas station, but missiles. but again, as, as things don't pan out in ukraine, as we were all told they would, that russia is running out of missiles that they're deploying, you know, new and very complex systems which are better than a lot of western ones as well. which that western media like to discuss as we sort

of begin to shift in, in, in, in the u on, in the states with people like biden, sort of their slapping down zalinski and the argument over the polish missile. where is the lance? he is absolutely, you know, you know, he's determined to say that this is a still evolution missile, despite the fact that even the most aggressive nato protagonist are saying it wasn't, you know, you're starting to see the cracks appear. and, you know, america has form here, as brian said, you know, they've set up a proxy regime america has form and throwing those regimes under the bus. as the narrative changes, it fights its wars along the lines of its domestic political calendar, the united states, and they've done the same at vietnam, iraq, afghanistan. so you should be really looking now i'd say, for shifts in the narrative and even, you know, dedicated sort of hawkish air us and newspapers have been talking recently about, you know, the fact that the ukraine military, for example,

have been very considerably definitely committing war crimes. and that would have been unheard of at the start of this conflict. so the shift is coming. it's coming in winter and the populations which elect the governments which constitute the, you know, the european union in the united states are starting to really grow weary of this conflict. and there's plenty of problems at home and they need to be dealt with. and you know, people are fickle and i think it's beginning shift, you know, fell of every, every once in or every once in a while. western media like near the, the official oregon of the state, new york times, you know, the, they talk about biden's zalinski problem because it's becoming quite evident. we had a cancer, he's constantly grubbing for money. and then this whole missile incident here, i mean, what is it going to turn into a liability for buying or is he just not well aware enough even to know it's a liability? go ahead philip. well, you know, to me, to sort of watching this from the outside to

a certain extent. this seems to me to be the most coordinated and effective propaganda operation having run by the us government and coordination with the mainstream media. the public doesn't know all the stuff the public doesn't know hardly any of this. how many people, not people who are ordinary voters, don't read the new york times anyway. but wherever they turn, they're going to be saturated by the same arguments about why the united states is helping this poor little country ukraine that was attacked by russia. and this argument is repeated over and over and over again. the united states is kind of basically being perceived by most of the rest of the world as the school bully, a country that is basically driving its own interest. okay. i have to get a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the complex in ukraine. stay with our

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google obtaining easy candidate status in 2022. ah, ah, welcome back to cross like we're all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing the conflict in ukraine. ah. okay, let's go back to philadelphia. what right, before we go, we had to go to the break and i had to jump in there. you said you said that there's a perception that, that the united states is a bully here. i mean, it, why would that be so hard after the destruction of the north stream pipeline se, okay, because it's been like 8 weeks and nobody seems to be curious about what up in there . and of course, it's to the us as advantage anthony and blanket admitted as much i think it is an

extraordinary opportunity or something like that. and in, and it was obviously a frontal attack against germany making any kind of move to, to make some kind of overturn towards the moscow to, to finally put this thing to an end. but no, that's been taken off the table. so, i mean, there's no way back from that. i mean, i find it truly an incredible phillip that well, it, us western, now i actually trust washington right now after that. well, i think the, the allies, if you're talking about the leadership of those countries that's a given except that they don't really trust washington and the, and increasingly in europe, the people are rising up and protesting about this. one of the astonishing things is that the climb down on alternative views here in the united states is really quite limited. there is no big piece movement. and apart from the occasional critics coming from the right, like tucker carlson, there's,

there are no effect the voices out there getting a, a substantial audience to tell them what the, what the story is. you know, brian, you know, i, i, i tend to never agree with the stuff in the head of nato. but he says that if, if native ukraine loses to russia, nato loses. and it would be a loss for nato, which of course, is something i would like very much. what. how does nato get through this, or does it i don't think that it does. i agree. i agree, or just as your previous guess was saying, i mean, this is all about crafting these narratives. are controlling narratives is not the same as controlling events in actual reality. and i think that's what we're watching. we're witnessing these narratives that are being going along. so smoothly for so long are finally again running into reality and it's not going to survive it . so we're,

we're watching all of this deconstruct as this conflict drags on. we're going to see all of these narratives in challenged end, deconstruct it, and it's happening. it's happening day by day i had, i think zalinski was a liability from day one, but it was just their ability to present him as otherwise that convince people that he wasn't. but i, i think he was all along. well. yeah, ha, i i, brian's absolutely right. i mean, he was cast because he was so photogenic, he was affable, not very smart. and then he went to his head. i mean, he actually believes the propaganda that is generated about him and it gives us another example of how bad narratives create bad outcomes. shay and dublin. yeah, i think brian's got a great point. i mean, zalinski is a perfect mark for the cia and for the, the american war state and to target and manipulate to present this honest, you know, a rags to riches figure. but of course,

as an ascii has no political pedigree and would be relatively naive that you know, he's a, he's a, a young man am who has been swept along on this type of propaganda. his own propaganda as well. and to go back to the previous a guests and analysis of how the the, the state has been of ukraine has been sort of undermined. i mean, it goes back a long way. i mean, in 1949, that the u. s. deployed agents in the ukraine, so this is the new operation red sox, which was please say your strike under undermine the ukrainian s s or at the time. so did ga, has a 70 plus year history and ukraine of trying to manipulate and undermine and exacerbate the at no nationalist realities of, of ukraine. so to portray this, as brian said as a, and this is vladimir putin waking up in the 24th of february, sticking a pin and a map and rolling across the border in peel expansion is,

is utterly delusional. and i think it is beginning to see but into the narrative in europe here, where people like us are being listened to unless attacked for of use of people are being forced to listen as the lensky really shows. and that he isn't interested in independent and non aligned assessment of his allegations. he digs his heels in, there's one truth. and if you don't follow the truth, you're essentially allied with a monstrous russian war machine, which is utterly ludicrous. you know, fell up though the russia warned months in advance of the start of the special mil and military operation, particularly december 17. thank, i'm a broken record here because i always mention it to people an ultimatum, essentially, to nato and to washington. it was completely ignored. as we expected here, and because russia the deems the situation, but prior to of february 24th, as existential to russia. now obviously, any common sense would dictate that that doesn't apply to the united states or to

europe. ukraine is an existential to their existence. but washington has made it existential. and that's where the problem is, because if it is existential, then you can't negotiate. and if you don't negotiate, you're going to have to die on that hill called ukraine. and i worry that people like sullivan and victoria new and all these other ones to lindsey graham, you know, going to the senate here. they, they, they will not, they will not term accept defeat. yeah, i think i think judge analysis is correct. i mean, essentially the, the, the, the fundamental problem is that this war should never occur. it was preventable. going back a year ago. it was preventable even before that, because if you go, if you go back and look at some of the speeches and, and statements coming out of the foreign ministry in moscow. and they made

a lot of sense. it was very clear that russia had certain distinct, national security interests that were power. and yet everybody was closing their ears to this. they were closing her eyes to these. and instead of listening to what they were saying, they basically just chose the other route which they did the fame, these people to call them flashes to call them la totalitarian, to call them every name in the book. so you don't really have to address the issues or racing, but this war should never occur. brian was an important issue that has to be addressed here that no one in the western media will do. is that because it is existential from the point of moscow. the settlement, whatever it will be, will be a settlement under russia's terms because they're not going to want to do this in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years from now. ok, it will have to be definitive for pan european security. that means russia has a say absolutely ends up something else. the western media never talks about is how

nato, throughout its entire existence, and especially after the, the end of the cold war, it exists solely to encircle and contain russia. and we hear people at the atlantic council, people who end up in the u. s. government positions of power talking about how the end goal is to eventually absorb russia itself into this. you're a poll and free project, there's, which is really just europe, whole under us subjugation and free for the us to do what it wants with it. this is, this is their vision of the future. russia has the right under international law to reject this, this subordination to a foreign power on the other side of the atlantic. you know, show that the, the biden administration likes to betray this is a ta chrissy versus democracy. but it's the global south or the global majority, as i like to say. they're the ones that are there is exerting their self determination. ok, and that's democratic. ok. this whole campaign,

the western campaign against russia is very and democratic and it's very authoritarian, as we've all spoken about how freely you can speak about this in the west, go ahead j. yeah, i mean this is neo liberal, had gemini and mia grey scholars liked mercia, emer cohen and chomsky have discussed this, and the fact that they discussed it means that they know that this in the state department, they know about it in the white house, but they plow had anyway, they, i mean, you read barely time to, you know, have a, have a lie down after the, you know, how to catastrophic withdrawal from afghanistan. and the us have decided, well, let's go to ukraine. and as brian has mentioned before, the, the scaffold that this war is burning on has been built, created propagated by the cia why people like victoria newland who back in 2014, were instrumental in the agitation that led to the might on which of course any objective observer will tell you, was the overturning of

a democratically elected president and imperfect president, nonetheless, which still democratically elected. so you've got the forces of democracy going in . am i agitating with known and nazis and people like all like johnny brook. you've got people at john mccain who never saw war. he didn't want to be part of, by the way, on the stage while at the democratically elected president was in power. i mean, the absolutely brazen nature of the cia backed and you know, operation and you train was incredible. i mean, but yet we're told that they are the guys backing democracy. they overturned a democracy in ukraine and built a de facto nato army of over a quarter of a 1000000 man training 10000 men a year in the leading up to this crisis. and they tell us that this is a peaceful army staring across russia's border in a territory which is populated by millions of ethnic russians. and we're still told that, you know,

we're the good guys. the state is still telling us this. all i mean, we talking about good guy, philip, were rapidly running out of time. you know, i'm like yourself, i am a conservative. i don't identify with the republican party because they're full of fools. but this is an opportunity. this is a real opportune, this is biden's more. it's a fiasco. it's a, it's a, it's a boon dongle, but the republicans don't have any courage, philip. well, that is certainly one way to describe the republican party. there are outspoken republicans, but you can count them on one hand, fingers of one hand, just the same as in the democratic party where there are a few progressives that are courageous enough to stand up once in a while. the problem is that the whole system in the united states is, is geared towards the political system geared towards consensus on these kinds of issue. yeah. there's no debate that goes on. there's never been a debate, for example, in congress about the crane policy. i mean, it's unbelievable. and,

and, and these, these dollars not dollops, these huge consignments on money. i mean the latest one was what 37 that the president signed off on. this was just before zalinski, he decided he was going to bring nato in because of the bombing in poland. so, you know, we, here we have this madman in essence with a lot con on us policy in his country, and also a, a flow of money national party of your vendors, our discussion on a very depressing note, but it could not be otherwise. that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks. so may get some personal dublin and in bangkok and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our tc next time. and remember process growth the the

when i was shot the wrong when i was just don't the yes to shape out. the thing becomes the after an engagement equal the trail. when so many find themselves, well, the part we choose to look for common ground only 41 percent of usaa don't have enough savings to cover a $1000.00 emergency. we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical debt. in america, we do have a wealth versus to replace, to help people who are struggling financially, but it's

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national z. m. shylie. yours is when you buy, when you sit down with a teenage boy is killed on at least 18 more wounded in a pair of bus stop explosions in jerusalem called police from the bay. a n g o is from operating in the west african nation. it's yet another wage in relations between the 2 countries, following many years of a controversial french military presence in the region. and it comes from keynote also to check that the health region faces are really think it's the insurgency threat. but more.