i my list to the soldiers to the veterans. you know, if we're going to be offended by everything, every negative part of our history, we have to get rid of everything. ah ah, ah hello and welcome to cross thought were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle with its infrastructure being degraded in the weather, turning into winter ukraine faces the stark prospect of becoming a failed state. no amount of western arms can change that harsh reality. why should it in kev have demonstrated they have no real interest in negotiations? ukraine's faith has been sealed, ah,

cross fucking the conflict in ukraine. i'm joined by my guest sill geraldine percival. he's a former cia counter terrorism specialist in bangkok we have bryan, we're letting he is a jew political analyst and a former us marine. and in dublin because to shay bowes, he's an independent commentator and writer, or a gentleman, cross stock rules in effect. that means you can jump in any time you want. and i would appreciate, let's go to 1st start to philip philip, i'm the mood of alabama, at least at this moment that the website they lead article is no way to peace without further war. i think got some set up really well, considering we've had all of this ridiculous hot air coming out of washington, brussels, and care about what a negotiated end would be. they're not interested in it is in fact they want to keep this war going on as long as possible, which will seal ukraine's fate. go ahead, philip. yeah, well,

i think that's an accurate analysis that you just given the. the fact is that the, the people in washington are really matter which ones who are making decisions on all as sort of thing have repeatedly said that there are washing their hands of negotiations because it's up to kiev, which of course, it's not. and they have also indicated very clearly that the united states objective in what it's doing in, in ukraine and in the neighboring regions is intended to weaken russia. that's the objective of all this. so it's kind of a fantasy approach to say that what that is occurring is all about democracy promotion or protecting the rights of smaller countries. this is, this is all nonsense. okay. essentially the same question for brian in bangkok here, because with this determination to keep the war going on, i think it's ukraine, that's going to be completely utterly destroyed in the process,

which is really quite interesting is what leader of a country would willingly get on for that kind of campaign because zalinski saying, you know, has its demands. who wants public negotiations and all this, which they know the russian side will never accept. and why would they ukraine never kept its its word when it came to the minsk agreements. france didn't do it. germany didn't do it. so i mean, what's the whole point of all this ridiculous talk of negotiations when it's not in good faith? go ahead, brian and bangkok, this was the whole purpose of getting a klein regime and to power in 2014, in the 1st place to put a group, a circle of interest into power in kiev. that would irrationally lead the country down the path toward proxy war and ultimate destruction at the hands of russia, but also at the hands of their western sponsors were slowly and shortly feeding them into this. this grinder essentially, unfortunately. ok,

well is go to dublin shay essentially the same question to you because i mean, as, as we're sitting down right now, the u. s. is having to have to restock it. stockpiles wanting, needing to buy ammunition from south korea and all the while the media is saying that russia is on its last gas. you know, the morale is low. there's though, i mean, it's actually everything is completely upside down. ok then and what we're looking at and then we, they talk about, you know, being able to retake territory. ok. we taking the territory the size of delaware. oh my goodness. okay. is that that's going to change anything, the calculus here that should be put into play. it's not what moscow is going to control. it's what give is going to control. and with its infrastructure being degraded, it's not going to be very much go ahead in dublin. yeah, of course as brian will, you know, sort of also back me up. i mean,

this also feeds into the narrative about these a huge weapons packages. and, you know, brian speaks very a conclusively about the value and the quality of what's actually being shift now into ukraine. the well is running dry. it seems to all objective observers, you know, you see, you know, huge convoys of destroyed us, british and a other, nato countries, supply equipment. but this is a bed of pure campaign. essentially. it's about, you know, making big announcements of, at large weapons packages. it's about, you know, feeding that narrative to an increasingly skeptical west in population who are starting to see big social problems with that deep, huge wave of ukrainian refugees that have arrived into europe. they're also starting to see the impact of huge energy prices and costs as well. it's getting cold. now, the front lines are beginning to freeze as well in ukraine and defenders advantage, which was in ukraine's favor. now, militarily, as, as russia, you know,

retreats into more prepared for positions that advantage is with russia now. and as they, they build this huge and mobilized army. and, you know, i think the idea that russia is beaten is a convenient propaganda ploy. there's no bearing in reality and i'm sure brian would would elaborate on that. okay, well, well phil appear, as i said in my introduction, no amount of arms is going to change the calculus on the ground. i mean, i'm one of the, probably the last person, the world that would quote joseph burrell, but it will be settled on the battlefield. and there's really nothing outside of, of direct nato intervention, which they would lose if they did. i mean, they're using ukraine as a proxy. now the ukranian army was destroyed in the summer. now they're fighting nato ok with ukrainian soldiers and others soldiers wearing ukrainian uniforms there. but there is no reckoning that this strategy is working whatsoever. again, i want to stress the infrastructure of the country is being degraded in the middle

of winter. how can this continue on philip? well, i mean, if i were seriously involved in making decisions, i would say no, it can't go on. and i would point out the sensually that i think even the, even the parties involved clearly understand if this is ultimately only going to be settled through negotiations that recognize an actual russian interest. this has always been the stumbling block since the beginning that the united states and its allies basically didn't want to accept that russia had actual national security interests that were of the existential for the country. and they walked away from those sort of actually they're going to have to walk back to it. ok. everybody, everything that phillip just said, write it on a posted and put it in your wallet, because that's the best summation that we've had thus far in this conflict here.

brian, you're not in your head. why go ahead? but why i agree. i agree with both of your other gaps looking at these packages, looking at how the west is trying to sell the wave as conflict as unfolding. and then just scratching a little bit under the surface, the u. k. claiming since june, they've trained 7000 ukrainian soldiers. when you look at the details, they're taking a 6 month course and condensing it in 5 weeks. and this is what they're introducing raw recruits to this is essentially funding them to death and the fee on the battlefield. and this is the same pattern that goes across everything the us and its allies are doing. and in regards to this proxy more so it's just going to be a matter of how long they can stretch out this narrative until it crashes head on into reality. well i think brian, you're right, if i go to shane and dublin and because then domestic politics comes into play, when there is no break through in the, in the, on the battlefield. but your electricity bill, your fuel bill,

your food bill continues to climb and, and your, your, your public leaders not reacting to that. ok. i mean the, the, the what the, the german foreign minister is, you know, you, i don't care what my voters say. ok, that's, that's going to come and haunt the entire european union and eventually the united states because a whole was the whole globe itself is suffering because of the arrogance of these decision makers go ahead in dublin. yeah, i think it also brings into focus how quickly russian economic parrot, importance to the global economy was, was dispelled. it was a, a gas station, but missiles. but again, as, as things don't pan out in ukraine, as we were all told they would, that russia is running out of missiles that they're deploying, you know, new and very complex systems which are better than a lot of western ones as well. which that western media like to discuss as we begin to shift in, in, in, in the united states with people like biden,

sort of their slapping down zalinski and the argument over the polish missile. where is the lance? he is absolutely, you know, you know, he's determined to say that this is a, still a russian missile, despite the fact that even the most aggressive nato protagonist are saying it wasn't, you know, you're starting to see the cracks appear. and you know, america has form here, as brian said, you know, they set up a proxy regime america has form and throwing those regimes under the bush. as the narrative changes. it fight its wars, it along the lines of its domestic political calendar, the united states, and they've done the same at vietnam, iraq, afghanistan. so you should be really looking now i'd say, for shifts in the narrative and even, you know, dedicated sort of hawkish air usa. newspapers have been talking recently about, you know, the fact that the ukraine military, for example, have been very considerably definitely committing war crimes. and that would have been unheard of at the start of this conflict. so the shift is coming. it's coming

in winter and the populations which elect the governments which constitute the, you know, the european union and the united states are starting to really grow weary of this conflict. and there's plenty of problems at home and they need to be dealt with. and you know, people are fickle and i think it's beginning shift, you know, fill up every, every once it or every once in a while. western media like near the, the official oregon of the state, new york times, you know, the, they talk about biden's zalinski problem because it's becoming quite evident we had a good concert. he's constantly grubbing for money. and then this whole missile incident here, i mean, what is it going to turn into a liability for buying or is he just not well aware enough even to know it's a liability? go ahead philip. well, you know, to me then, sort of watching this from the outside to a certain extent. this seems to me to be the most coordinated and effective propaganda. operation being run by the us government and coordination with the

mainstream media. the, the public doesn't know all the stuff the public doesn't know. hardly any of this. how many people are people who are ordinary voters, don't read the new york times anyway. but wherever they turn, they're going to be saturated by the same arguments about why the united states is helping this poor little country you credit and that was attacked by russia. and this argument is repeated over and over and over again. and the united states is kind of a, basically a being perceived by most of the rest of the world as the school bully. yeah, a country that is basically driving its own interest. i don't spell that. we don't have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the conflict in ukraine staying with ah,

no forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people, a robot, most of the baby orders given it by human beings, except with such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about on personal intelligence. at the point, obviously is to place trust, rather than say, a with artificial intelligence. real somebody with less protective existence, with only 41 percent of us. it does have enough savings to cover

a $1000.00 emergency. we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical that in america we do have a welfare system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it's a conditional system you have to prove to the government that you truly need help. the simplest way, like explain a basic income, is that is like social security for the rest of us. a basic income would be a monthly payments that would go to everyone. just a $1000.00 a month, no strings at h a. i will. i mean, i don't know. i just won't go crazy. no reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve it and just bad virtue of your being here. the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered non peter labelle,

to remind you we're discussing the conflict and ukraine. i go back to philadelphia. right before we the we had to go to the break and i had to jump in there. you said, you said that there's a perception that, that the united states is a bully here. i mean, it, why would that be so hard after the destruction of the north stream pipelines say ok because it's been like 8 weeks and nobody seems to be curious about what happened there. and of course, it's to the us as advantage anthony blinking admitted as much i think it is an extraordinary opportunity or something like that. and in, and it was obviously a frontal attack against germany, making any kind of move to, to make some kind of overture towards moscow to, to finally put this thing to an end. but no, that's been taken off the table. so, i mean, there's no way back from that. i mean, i find it truly incredible philip,

that the u. s. western. now i actually trust washington right now after that. well, i think the, the allies, if you're talking about the leadership of those countries that's a given except that they don't really trust washington and the, and increasingly, and you are, the people are rising up and protesting about this. one of the astonishing things is that the clamp down on alternative views here in the united states is really quite limited. there is no big piece movement surfacing and apart from the occasional critics coming from the right. like tucker carlson, there's, there are no effect the voices out there getting a, a substantial audience to tell them what the, what the story is. you know, brian, you know, i, i, i tend to never agree with the stuff in the head of nato. but he says that if, if native ukraine loses to russia, nato loses. and it would be a loss for nato,

which of course, is something i would like very much. what. how does nato get through this, or does it i don't think that it does. i agree. i agree, or just as your previous guess was saying, i mean, this is all about crafting these narratives. are controlling narratives is not the same as controlling events in actual reality. and i think that's what we're watching. we're witnessing these narratives that have been going along. so smoothly for so long are finally again running into reality and it's not going to survive. it's a we're, we're watching all of this deconstruct as this conflict drags on. we're going to see all of these narratives being challenged and should deconstruct it. it's happening, it's happening day by day i had, i think zalinski was a liability from day one, but it was just their ability to present him. it's otherwise that convince people

that he wasn't but i, i think he was all along. well. yeah, ha, i i, brian's absolutely right. i mean, he was cast because he was so photogenic, he was affable, not very smart. and then he went to his head. i mean, he actually believes the propaganda that is generated about him and it gives us another example of how bad narratives create bad outcomes. shay and dublin. yeah, i think brian's got a great point. i mean, zalinski is a perfect mark for the cia and for the, the american war state and to target and manipulate to present this honest, you know, a rags to riches figure. but of course, isn't as he has no political pedigree and would be relatively naive that you know, he's a, he's a, he's a, a young man. and who has been swept along on this type of propaganda. his own propaganda as well. and to go back to the previous a guests and analysis of how the the,

the state has been of ukraine has been sort of undermined. i mean, it goes back a long way. i mean, in 1949, that the u. s. deployed agent, city, ukraine. so this is the new operation red sox, which was please say your strike under undermined the ukrainian s s or at the time . so did ga, has a 70 plus year history and ukraine of trying to manipulate and undermine and exacerbate the at no nationalist realities of, of ukraine. so to portray this, as brian said as a, and this is vladimir putin waking up in the 24th of february, sticking a pin on a map and rolling across the border in pale expansion is, is utterly delusional. and i think it is beginning to see but into the narrative in europe here, where people like us are being listened to unless attacked for of use of people are being forced to listen as the lensky really shows. and that he isn't interested in independent and non aligned assessment of his allegations. he digs his heels in,

there's one truth. and if you don't follow the truth, you're essentially allied with a monstrous russian war machine, which is orderly, ludicrous. you know, fell up though the russia warned months in advance of the start of the special mill and military operation, particularly december 17. thank. i'm a broken record here because i always mention it to people an ultimatum, essentially, to nato and to washington. it was completely ignored. as we expected here, and because russia the deems the situation, but prior to of february 24th, as existential to russia. now obviously, any common sense would dictate that that doesn't apply to the united states or to europe. ukraine is an existential to their existence. but washington has made it existential. and that's where the problem is, because if it is existential, then you can't negotiate. if you don't negotiate, you're going to have to die on that hill called ukraine. and i worry that people

like sullivan and victorian new and all these other ones to lindsey graham, you know, going to the senator they, they, they will not, they will not term accept defeat. yeah, i think i think doug analysis is correct. i mean, essentially the, the, the, the fundamental problem is that this war should never occur. it was preventable. going back a year ago. it was preventable even before that, because if you go, if you go back and look at some of the speeches and, and statements coming out of the foreign ministry in moscow, it made, it made a lot of sense. it was very clear that russia had certain distinct, national security interests that were power. and yet everybody was closing their ears to this. they were closing her eyes to these. and instead of listening to what they were saying, they basically just chose the other route, which is the fame these people to call them fashion, to call them the totalitarian,

to call them every name in the book. so you don't really have to address the issues or racing, but this war should never occurred. you know, brian was an important issue that has to be addressed here that no one in the western media will do is that because it is existential from the point of moscow. the settlement, whatever it will be, will be a settlement under russia's terms because they're not going to want to do this in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years from now. ok, it will have to be definitive for pan european security. that means russia has a say absolutely, and something else. the western media never talks about is how nato, throughout the entire and distance, and especially after the be under the cold war, it exists solely to encircle and contain russia. and we hear people at the atlantic council, people who end up in the u. s. government positions of power, talking about how the end goal is to eventually absorb russia itself into this

europe, whole and free project of barrels, which is really just your whole under us subjugation and free for the us to do what it wants with it. this is, this is their vision of the future. russia has the right under international law to reject this, this subordination to a foreign power on the other side of the atlantic. you know, say that the, the biden administration likes to betray this is a talk with the vs, democracy. but it's the global south or the global majority, as i like to say, they're the ones that are there exerting their self determination. okay? and that's democratic ok. this whole campaign, the western campaign against russia is very democratic and it's very authoritarian, as we've all spoken about how freely you can speak about this and in the west, go ahead j. yeah, i mean this is neo liberal, had gemini, and the great scholars liked mercia, emer cohen and chomsky have discussed this,

and the fact that they discussed that means that they know that this in the state department, they know about it in the white house, but they plow had anyway, they, i mean, you read barely time to, you know, have a, have a lie down after the, you know, catastrophic withdrawal from afghanistan. and the us have decided, well, let's go to ukraine and as blind as mentioned before. did the scaffold that this war is burning on? has been built, created propagated by the cia why people like victoria newland who back in 2014, were instrumental in the agitation that led to the might on which of course any objective observer will tell you was the overturning of a democratically elected president and imperfect president nonetheless, which still democratically elected. so you've got the forces of democracy going in am agitating with known as nazis and people like all like johnny brook. you've got people at john mccain who never saw war. he didn't want to be part of, by the way,

on the stage while at the democratically elected president was in power. i mean, the absolutely brazen nature of the cia backed and you know, operation and you train was incredible. i mean, but yet we're told that they are the guys backing democracy. they overturned a democracy in ukraine and built a de facto nato army of over a quarter of a 1000000 man training 10000 men a year in the leading up to this crisis. and they tell us that this is a peaceful army staring across russia's border in a territory which is populated by millions of ethnic russians. and we're still told that, you know, and we're the good guys to stay just still telling us the fall. i mean, we talking about good guy, philip, rapidly running out of time. you know, i'm like yourself, i am a conservative. i don't identify with the republican party because they're full of fools. but this is an opportunity. this is a real opportune, this is biden's more. it's a fiasco, it's a, it's a, it's a boon dongle,

but the republicans don't have any courage, philip. well, that's certainly one way to describe the republican party. there are outspoken republicans, but you can count them on one hand, fingers of one hand, just the same as in the democratic party where there are a few progressives that are courageous enough to stand up once in a while. the problem is that the whole system in the united states is, is geared towards the political system geared towards consensus on these kinds of issue. yeah. there's no debate that goes on. there's never been debated. for example, in congress about the crane policy. i mean, it's unbelievable. and, and, and these, these dollops not dollops these huge consignments on money. i, we, the latest one was what $37.00 that the president signed off on. this was just before he decided he was going to bring nato in because of the bombing in poland.

so, you know, we, here we have this madman in essence, so with a lot con on us policy in his country and also a, a flow of money national party of your vendors, our discussion on a very depressing, nope. but it could not be otherwise. that's all the time we have gentlemen. many thanks. so may get some personal dublin and in bangkok and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at rtp next time. and remember, cross growth the when i was shot the wrong. why don't just don't the rules? yes, to shape out the same because after an engagement equals the trail

went to many find themselves world the part we choose to look for common ground. oh yes. some of those to story with wow, we have which are ours. we make, you know, i'm not let you to really care about me. if you care about the play. i wish somebody could just tell me why her hair all hatred, lynchings, beating poverty, why supremacy is disgusting. amber. the people in mississippi voted on a wire, and 65 percent of the people voted to keep the current flag. our purpose is to, to fan the good name and get better help because of these monuments that you see

everywhere are not. they're not mileage to the kids that are there monuments to the soldiers to battery. you know, if we're going to be offended by everything, every negative part of our history, we have to get rid of everything. oh, is 2 days we love in this country, its cache and freedom. but anybody, it's been poor here can tell you that in america, if you got no cash got no freedom shackle jackal. do a job that. busy expired, you shackle to get interest right? this apps, you drag, shackled to medical bills for ailments, so old they could have their own student loans, their default, they know it's an oppressive. and this heartening state of affairs that leaves

people doing whatever they can just describe by because they don't have any other choice and that's not freedom, but a universal basic income can give you freedom, lots of freedom, freedom to go back to school, to learn new skills for them to take care of an aging parents, the freedom to start a small business to freedom, to leave an abusive relationship, the freedom to just not have to worry about money every single 2nd of every day. ah, i mean up until literally last 2 years and my live lives been like one emergency situation away from complete financial catastrophe. basically, i just live in paycheck to paycheck, not having any extra money for any thing at all.