ah, ah ah ah, ah. hello and welcome across the top were all things are considered. i am peter lavelle because of nato's insistence to expand eastward. we have the conflict in ukraine and ukraine is quickly becoming a failed state and to humanitarian crisis. none the less nato is undeterred. this alliance continues to be the biggest threat. japan, european security, is also indifferent to the damage it does to the international system.

with cross stocking nato doubling down. i'm joined by my guess, daniel mc, adams, and lake jackson. he's the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity in washington state. we have on 3 month round of he is a writer, as well as a military and political analyst. and in loan's we cross to young oberg. he is the director of the swedish independent transnational foundation for peace and future research, or a gentleman cross sack rules that affect that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate, danny. let me go to you 1st and like jackson here, nato is double down, you know, it's a, it's a there. they met in book book arrests, you know, they, they're doing it all over again. the door is open. so how is ukraine done over the years, with the open door to nato? has it really benefited nato? it all has it benefited nato, who has a benefit?

go ahead, daniel. well, who its benefit is, of course, the beltway band. that's the u. s. weapons manufacturers, raytheon who's representative is now our secretary of defense, or who made bracy on missiles. they're the big beneficiaries of this will a project. it's now been 14 years since the 2008 declaration that georgia and ukraine would be welcomed into nato some day. and we saw from the foreign minister statement at this nature meeting that despite the rhetoric of gen, salt and berg, which is always very heated and very turgid, the actual invitation. if you read the declaration is just kind of weak just as kind of in the future as it always has been. you know, so on did i leave the, the, the status quo over the last 14 years is just fine for salt and bergen. nato ok is a matter fact. it is, it is actually highlighted. i mean,

all of us growing up nature, which is kind of backwater alliance that soviet union never had any intention of invading. and all of a sudden stole burg, feels like, you know, he's like somebody like zelinski. somebody important in the world. ok. but actually this whole, the whole, all these events being played on ukraine is shown that nato is the biggest threat to pan european security. nobody wants to talk about it, but it's obviously true when you have pan european security against russia and without russia. this is what you get andre. yeah, this scares me. in the morning. you are wanting to america. fine. mr. long we're all set to exactly the same now. or there will be all security in a euro without russia and bill arms and just for yourself ever them in the oldest given lions you there. i want to be sure that without united states that her name is not, you know, basically

a year old is reduced with the status of the lap dogs. and yes, as john, you know, your boss, oh, sorry. and nothing will change until they denied it. states completed the feeder ever sent us across the board to come on only because i want to called a day awesome standing actually will office or additional license? yeah, i mean huh. you know, you know, the rhetoric, i'm, obviously nato wants to exist. ok, it's a big grant, it's a big bureaucracy. there's a lot of nice, well, sounds there positions here is that you have all this elite capture. but yun, i mean, what is it you have to show for itself except for this time around? it's not afghanistan, it's not iraq, it's not siri. it's not libya, it's ukraine, and europeans are paying a pretty high price for something that has nothing to do with their security

whatsoever. so nato, i'm agreeing with andre. i'm hoping for a category, a categorical defeat for nato in ukraine and it's, it's in the cards. go ahead young. well, yes, thank you very much for having me here. i'm just saying that there are a 150 other 60 pages book on mine on trans national, but live with 30 arguments. why i think nato should be abolished it is. it was sent up in 1949. the purpose was to create peace. its own treaty is at copy of the united nations charter added article 5 mutual hate bod. it has said that it should be, should be created by peace, according to one of the un, etc. nato has done nothing of that. it is violated with the bombing time $9.00 to $9.00. for instance, an i lay did his own treaty and it has not in spite of,

i don't know how many trainings of dollars tax pay is in the nato countries are contributed. it has obviously now because of the expansion and i agree with that with those who say that this crisis is caused by the underlying conflict, which is nato expansion and asked that he is against or rob is, is given to work much off. i'm while the war is something russia is responsible for, but what i'm. ready saying is an organization that has exist over 73 years and not managed to do anything to talk to him about it. it's, it's primary goal should be evaluated, should be discussed, should be reformed completely or abolished and something great. deborah, daniel, that's never going to come into play. i. i agree with much of what young to say here. it's not worth it is not working. why continue it here? and again, i'd like to point out to our viewers ever since this exploration was made in 2008.

haven't you noticed daniel, that ukraine get smaller and smaller and smaller? the more nato helps in injects itself as a co belligerent in this conflict. daniel, it gets smaller and it also gets colder for a it's a disaster. i mean, imagine having friends like these, you know, they take you to a party and they, they steal your wallet and they buy drinks with it and they leave. you rolled up in a corner somewhere. but you captured it, peter very well at the beginning. this is a massive grist. we send ukraine billions of dollars in weapons. russia blows them up, and we say, oh gosh, these weapons are blown up. we need to said more. mean, literally, the military industrial complex is on russia side, in this fight as well. and we're going to spend, i think, $100000000.00 rebuilding their energy sector and russia is going to blow up and we're going to send another $100000000000.00. i mean, this is incredible. you wonder how long i mean in the mainstream media there is

only one voice that i've seen and that's tucker carlson who calls this out as the griff that it is. and he had a, a, a young conservative woman on who called zelinski the welfare queen of the world. candace owens. yep. and she's absolutely correct. that's the only person who's really calling it out. this is the griffith of all grips. this makes the cobra griffin look like an honest and honest endeavor. it's just unbelievable. and i just, it's hard to believe that the american public. and if you look at a recent poll, it shows that ukraine is way, way, way down on the scale of priorities. but nevertheless, it's way, way, way up when it comes to spending tons and tons of money. so at some point the american public we would presume, will connect the 2 dots and realize, oh my gosh, why am i so poor? well, all your money went to ukraine. you idiots. well and andre, i'd like to finish

a daniel say it went to ukraine to whom because we know the equipment doesn't all get to the front. the, the, the money transfers. i mean, got, knows where that money goes. okay. i mean, there are rumors, i'm not going to confirm them here, but plenty of allegations of real estate deals in switzerland and all these other places far, far from the battlefield here. i mean it's, it's really quite interesting. have you noticed that over the last few months, a 10 year plan to rebuild the ukraine. net, to rebuild that, that the nato countries have, at least their leaders have no intention of ending this thing anytime soon. they have grandiose plans. go ahead on the right. well, they may have, well, whatever glass they want. box august aware journalist for gats, bare pure military industrial art on this bold spectacle. and ask

one of their users or posters on my blog yesterday. beautifully comment that on, on that you show all the shortages over there. for example, our tunic shells for the united states were getting your brain by the states and yes, as bobby our project dial dysfunction, an o business. you and there are people who are in charge, they say that you'll all it takes about 4 to 5 years through united states. do you wanna begin produce a shout in the one that is necessary. and what we see was c, l a. to remind us failure on late us bar to be added, what full dash or requirements of the more their own walk with the peer which tells you from the again, oh is specially when you see there that decline. yeah, deterioration if not was at the degeneration of maybe live rekey by religious of nato in the last 20 years. oh good because. ringback august that it's all about

skinning and yes, you're right. so many scenic yours there. i bought so many positions which may, wow, you know, why you won't bother song militarily. nathan is only create a profile. the 3rd world small nations like e b, i and they are, oh, well yeah. i mean you have someone like huh. me stilton berg and others, burrell saying that if, if a russia prevails in ukraine, it's a defeat for the weston defeat for nato. well that's i, i agree with that and i look forward to that because it will, this will come to an end. and then we'll have cooler head sitting down and say, let's have a say charity arrangement for the entire continent. would probably wouldn't need to be that all that much militarize if you think about it at the last 30 seconds before we go to the break. i completely agree we live in a militarist time. everybody is intoxicated with weapons of weapons, weapons,

all kinds of problems. we should have done long ago that what was needed at the time and go off, suggested it, and you secure it. you start your bill on security, defense, defense companies, military and civilian defense, a european united nation or something like that. we did not do that, we're trying to expand it. my name is expand. yeah, that's a lot with new members and it's a, it's an alliance that exists to exist. gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we have to go to what hard breaking up about hard break will continue our discussion on nato doubling down. stay with r t ah for

ah ah, the 1st time in history and the entire countries culture has been canceled to the very modern weapon to cancel culture. daily desperate, wonderful language, sheffield malice, luther and when william frog yet just misleading the one, it would put glue. the phrase now,

particularly refers to canceling russian culture from yet don't know what to create the few orders. because if you, when you're miles for fuel, which will be your there is cia mozilla, that all of them most of the temperature of and m e them we, what rushes created over the past 1500 years is now questions. partially condemned, reviled and rejected. to sit in line and use that to put somebody at the will of bramble, there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. thank you said a little short list. joining total condemnation, gross daily, and now includes dostoevsky to cascade shostakovich that i need to you a quick tour left. but yes, she says that would be the thumb. will you do a bummer lee? you're not gonna do that a lot. ah

ah, welcome back to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing nato doubling doubt. ah. okay, let's go back to daniel late jackson away of stilton burgess. he's. he's very pissy . i would say when he speaks, he and i know if he of notice is this kind of nato ease that he's always talking about did didn't really make a whole lot of sense. a lot of it is circular reasoning, but this is what he had to say in bucharest, on his anniversary visit from 2008. he was there, he right, whom reminds us, president putin cannot deny sovereign nations to make their own sovereign decisions . but i guess that doesn't apply to russia. thoughts, daniel, sovereign, people,

you know, y'all made a great point about nato's existence. it's only to expand. it's kind of like the sam bank mon freight of military alliance, isn't it? i was wondering who is going to come up with bad connection in this program? you were the 1st one, go keep going. you have to keep pulling in new suckers to keep, you know, surviving. and, you know, i mean, nato is the home of failed scandinavian politicians, and that's the case. and when you let the people of the baltics in the scandinavians make your defense policy, you've got a big problem because you have a problem of moral hazard. the people in the poles as well, the people who have it in for russia are sucking everyone else into fighting their fight for them. and it's a huge, huge problem. nato should never expand that. a good friend of mine at the state department. the time was chief in charge of promoting need to expansion the ninety's. he sent me a note saying how much he regrets the role that he played in arguing for the expansion of nato to poland and hungary in the 1st round. and i think

a lot of people are feeling that way, but nevertheless, the u. s. is going to train $2500.00 cranium soldiers. we've heard now it's going to be a massive increase that's about like 3 days on the battlefield. exactly. when they let me let andre react to that here, because you know, when they talk about a 100000 rounds, are going to be sent in 1500 troops in the andre, in the scheme of things on a battlefield. what kind of numbers to this really mean? because it looks more like p r to me, i'm not a military person. and so it says $100000.00 rounds. maybe i'll be impressed. you're a military person. does that? you know, does that get you through your breakfast? go ahead on that. i yeah, they are a being the one all the battle right now. again, i entirely agree most with this be more we for the problem solving, all the internal political problems bought the scale all down,

so to speak. 8 in reality is looking praising is actually a decrease because there's very little laugh who supply your brain with enough force on you. and if the quarter panel mcgregor are an independent numbers, so i'd have to refer her here. are russia has now about 540000. you troops along their borders of the former, you brain. and we can only guess for capitals wants the ground freezers. so hybrid boston brought all said in congress. ringback roach, i'm in big old making a difference whatsoever. wow. now are st saw warner alliance and she was old using she's always spoke the tools, at least she gave the pearl or are or order. or there are you pretty again, multis, boesky i a's and wounded. we can deduct of alkaloid from there. so we're looking at

about a $454.00 or 500140 story brain. again, just with more than 100000 killed and another 3 before 800000 wounded. ah, yeah, that's pretty much it flaw real armed forces, shorter crane and wish out this feedback pulls something with the brain, young on a soldier's complaining that they've been thrown into their product line without any preparation. any song yet will love them for any $4500.00 or whatever. if you 200 are there. so now i don't know will they can wrangle all their floor. so it just you know, run again a graft and money making as much as they can. yeah. i me, yeah, this is one of the things it's really kind of perplexing. if you look at it from a common sense point of view, we do, you know that in, in march there were maneuvers to, for some kind of a termination of the conflict in est am bull. i take those reports very credibly

and but you have any leads that wants to continue the war, and i'm sorry, it may be that it sound like a broken record, but it's about the griff that keeps the money coming in. everything is a fundraiser like fundraiser, that take another farm. you know, they take another village fund, raise fundraise, because they know the jig is going to be up eventually. and they just want to care as much wealth as they possibly can. maybe, you know, selling stuff off on the black market, which there are credible reports of bad as well. i mean, it, i'm trying to understand the mindset of this elite here because it was, you know, using your own people as fodder on such a massive scale shows, at least there's a disconnect here. we know that it's a one party state right now. there's no freedom of speech and the west. it sees this image of ukraine that doesn't even exist. so it seems like it's a real money making event here before you know it,

maybe they have to cross the rubicon and say, well, there's not much of grain left. go ahead young. well, i don't really know how much economy is driving this. what we're facing is all over the world, and in most countries of the world is one nuclear isn't. but that is part of something else called me mac, the military, industrial media, academic complex. it's much more than ice now. talked about the military industrial complex and the least you talk about are characterized whether in russia, whether in nature, whether in you, whether in, you know, any country with the military. they are all conflict resolution and peace, illiterate was no. yeah, i do, i, i do have to push back a little bit there. i don't think there's any indication russia wanted to have a military conflict in ukraine. if you look from 2014, particularly with the qu in,

in kim russia born, that the very existence of ukraine was at hand. here. we have been december of last year to set almost exactly a year ago, warnings that if you do not change direction, we're gonna all be in trouble. so i do have to push back on that. okay. the military industrial complex as it existed, russia is nothing like it is in the united states. okay. because russia doesn't look for foreign wars. the u. s. does daniel react to that was very interesting. i was not saying that i will. i do so, but i'm saying there isn't parody on that one issue. that's all i'm saying. okay, daniel, go ahead. that's not what i said. i ok, i'm correcting myself. ok, i didn't, i'm correcting my. so go ahead. i think you should my just did for the 2nd time. go ahead daniel. i'm just going to say, what's interesting is that when i met with these mothers of soldiers,

recently he issued kind of a very rare self correction, which you don't often hear from you is a very confident leader. doesn't often in public say that he was wrong, but he admitted in so many words that he was wrong in 2014. yeah. when he decided to pull back into not accept the don bass into russia to not accept the please of the russians in the area to be freed of the torture that they had suffered from kiev all this time. and i think that was very telling the understands he understood, and he said it out loud. that his reticence to enter into this military conflict at the time caused a lot of pain and suffering of the people in dawn best. and i think he must feel very acutely the, the pressure, the, the, the, the sense that of that he's let people down. and i think that probably drives a lot of what he's doing right now. yeah, i mean, on today, one of the things that western audiences don't understand because they're so

propagandized. but, you know, the eastern part of the dumbass, crimea, these are domestic political issues in russia. they're not foreign issues. ok. and, and there's that there is a very strong connection right there. and i agree with daniel, i mean, there's an interesting on the, there's an interesting juxtaposition here. nato can never admit that it's wrong. vladimir putin, it admitted that he was wrong on something 8 years ago. go ahead, andre, well, when you do you've, they're all business to the fact that brocky chance actually on one which in a few months and now that he states he was speaking from the human heart, michelle from das into that. for example, if you'll remember his music book bag response or at that and the grocery store was people the invasion all day. the national paris in 1999 saw air. he is drinking this in our shop of what best human speaking in terms of their real situation in

full 1014 rational wasn't ready yet to face. what would, how farm inevitably and which have bought it. she wasn't writing, and in this case year is both admissions that people come down better, but it wasn't human admission as the states ran. ah, i agreed that it is that windows dime and many a state of this, russia hasn't been already. if a $1014.00, it's populate a different case now. and yeah, it is a human emotion on his part and he is going to be a very emotional, an honest man, especially with speaking to them. august was better. and i mean, if nato doesn't change course, than what we're going to see is more conflict in this, in this part of the world in the, on the european continent here. because it's very clear to me that the only way this conflicts ends isn't russia gets what it wants. it's about. it's black and

white. to me, go ahead young one minute, you younger wellness and make scared. that's a mixture of the 2 things. the war and the mile in some of the weapons saw symptoms underlying conflicts. it's my 1st patient who goes to a doctor and say, i had a year, and the doctor only discusses the pain and doesn't go to a diagnosis to find out where does ain't come from. and unless all russia you cry and nate out you n it said begin to stop talking about weapons and war and be accessed with that then and go to the discussion of underlying conflicts. you can never saw the complete if you look at symptoms and weapons and the violence only, then that becomes the rest of continuing this for years. but if you want peace and that's my professor, you have to look at do a diagnosis of the underlying conflicts and then discuss who can be a mediator. who could say, we'll wait with which tables,

which issues to discuss how to it, show a little bit every day to watch something that or parties can live with. there is no future. could europe neither know, east or west? if we continue focusing just on the, on that dynamics, that was that dynamic weapons and the military thinking that is in everybody's mind, i'm ok. we've run out of time. but i don't think i can think of a better way to end the program than onions. words, very, very wise words. this all the time. we have many thanks to my guess and like jackson moon and in washington state. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. remember, cross talk with ah

ah, lou. lou with ah with oh, seemed wrong when all proofs just don't hold any world just to shape out. disdain becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail.

when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, for the 1st time in history, an entire country's culture has been trashed with a very modern weapon cancelled culture. really desert one. lucille miler. so thought in when william frog yet just me sitting there. i know it with the glue. the phrase now particularly refers to counseling russian culture. yet no more secrets of she was good because it has yet to when you're my folks sure. when she will be on there, it's charlie mozilla that all the most of the temperature random e them we reward russia has created over the past 1200 years, has now question partially condemned, reviled and rejected. just sort of like in your sense of what's funny at the mill

of bramble, there's a lot closer. i wanna hold poetry any time, i guess it wouldn't show them. they said thanks all spheres of life, including those in which russia had played leading cultural roles. art music and sports christian again, and i'm with a full truck with a 1000000 though the renewal were recorded. sermons put it all in. essentially, it means the show can't and won't go on. just show you put ricci test for a quarter out of scope when those weak lunch. and i grabbed this to be that, you know, proof of or be aware if you're what you mean at charlotte. the list joining total condemnation, gross daily. and now includes, does dance scale to cascade and shostakovich that i need to you all screw total must the yes you think about.