ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross top were all things are considered. i am peter lavelle because of nato's insistence to expand eastward. we have the conflict in ukraine and ukraine is quickly becoming a failed state and to humanitarian crisis. none the less nato is undeterred. this alliance continues to be the biggest threat. japan, european security, is also indifferent to the damage dose to the international system. ah,

cross stocking nato doubling down. i'm joined by my guess, daniel nick, adams, and lake jackson. he's the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity in washington state. we have on 3 months to be on of he is a writer, as well as a military and political analyst, and in loan's we cross to yon oberg. he is the director of the swedish independent transnational foundation for peace and future research, or a gentleman cross sack rules that affect that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate, danny. let me go to you 1st and like jackson here, nato is double down, you know, it's a, it's a, they met in book book harass, you know, they, they're doing it all over again. the door is open. so how is ukraine done over the years, with the open door to nato? has it really benefited nato? it all has it benefited nato. who has it benefit? go ahead. daniel. well, who would benefit? it? is, of course, the beltway bandits, the u. s. weapons manufacturers,

raytheon who's representative is now our secretary of defense, right. who made to break the on missiles or the big beneficiaries of this whole project. it's now been 14 years since the 2008 declaration that georgia and ukraine would be welcomed into nato. some day and we saw from the foreign minister statement at this nato meeting, that despite the rhetoric of jen stoughton berg, which is always very heated and very turgid of the actual invitation. if you read the declaration as just as kind of week, just as kind of in the future as it always has been. yeah. so on the day the, the, the, the status quo, the last 14 years is just fine for sultan bergen. nato. ok. it's a matter fact, it is, it is actually highlighted. i mean, all of us growing up nato was this kind of a backwater alliance that so be uni. never had any intention but invading and all

of sudden stillberg feels like, you know, he's like somebody like zalinski. somebody important in the world. okay. but actually, this whole, the whole, all these events being played on ukraine has shown that nato is the biggest threat to pan european security. nobody wants to talk about it, but it's obviously true when you have pan european security against russia and without russia. this is what you get andre. yeah, this thursday in the morning, you are wanting america. fine. mr. long for all. exactly the same. you know, there will be no security in a euro without washer and barbs, and just for yourself ever them. and in the oldest given lions you, i want to be sure that without united states maker is not, you know, basically a year old is reduced. will the status of the lap dogs?

and yes, as john, you know, your boss. oh, sorry. and nothing will change until data. not it states completely defeat there ever sounds like all of the want to come on me only because i want to go a good day. awesome. standing actually because you will office or additional last yeah. i mean, i, you know, you know, the rhetoric, i'm, obviously nato wants to exist. ok, it's a big grant. it's a big bureaucracy. there's a lot of nice, well, sounds there positions here is that you have all this elite capture, but young. i mean, what is it you have to show for itself, except for this time around? it's not, afghanistan is not iraq, it's not siri. it's not libya, it's ukraine. and europeans are paying a pretty high price for something that has nothing to do with their security whatsoever. so nato, i'm agreeing with andre. i'm hoping for a category,

a categorical defeat, for nato in ukraine, and it's, it's in the cards. go ahead young. well, yes, thank you very much for having me here. i'm just saying that they are under 50 or 60 pages book on mine on transnational but live with 30 arguments to why i think nato should be abolished it has. it was sent out in 1949. the purpose was to create peace. its own treaty is a copy of the united nations charter added article 5 mutual aid. but it has said that it should be, should be created by the ones, according to one of the un, etc. nato has done nothing of that. it has violated with the bombing time on $99.00 . for instance, an i lay did his own treaty and it has not in spite of i don't know how many trainings of dollars tax pay is in the nato countries are contributed. it has

obviously now because of the expansion and i agree. ready with those who say that this crisis is caused by the underlying complete, which is nato expansion. last study is against, or ramos is given to walk much off. and while the war is something russia is responsible for. but what i'm. ready saying is an organization that has exist over 73 years and not managed to do anything to talk to him about it. it's, it's primary goal should be evaluated. shouldn't be discussed, should be reformed completely or abolished and something great. deborah, daniel, that's never going to come into play. i. i agree with much of what young to say here. it's not worth it is not working. why continue it here? and again, i'd like to point out to our viewers ever since this exploration was made in 2008. haven't you noticed daniel, that ukraine get smaller and smaller and smaller?

the more nato helps in injects itself as a co belligerent in this conflict. daniel, a get smaller and it also gets colder for a it's a disaster. i mean, and that's you having friends like these, you know, they take, you do a party and they, they steal your wallet and they buy drinks with it and they leave. you rolled up in a corner somewhere, but you captured it, peter very well at the beginning. this is a massive griffin. we send ukraine billions of dollars in weapons. russia blows them up and we say, oh gosh, these weapons have blown up. we need to said more mean literally the military industrial complex is on russia side in this fight as well. and we're going to spend, i think, $100000000.00 rebuilding their energy sector and rush is going to blow up. and we're going to do another 100000000000. i mean, this is incredible. you wonder how long i mean in the mainstream media. there is only one voice that i've seen. and that's tucker carlson who calls this out as the

griff that it is. and he had a, a young conservative woman on who called zelinski the welfare queen of the world, kansas owens. yep. and she's absolutely correct. that's the only person who's really calling it out. this is the gripped of all grips. this makes the cobra griffin look like an honest and honest endeavor. it's just unbelievable. and i just, it's hard to believe that the american public. and if you look at a recent poll, it shows that ukraine is way, way, way down on the scale of priorities. but nevertheless, it's way, way, way up when it comes to spending tons and tons of money. so at some point the american public we would presume, will connect the 2 dots and realize, oh my gosh, why am i so poor? well, all your money with ukraine, you idiots. well and andre, i'd like to finish a daniel say it went to ukraine to whom k. because we know the

equipment doesn't all get to the front. the, the, the money transfers. i mean got, knows where that money goes. okay. i mean there are rumors, i'm not gonna confirm them here, but plenty of allegations of real estate deals in switzerland and all these. 1 other places far, far from the battlefield here. i mean, it's really quite interesting. have you noticed that over the last few months, a 10 year plan to rebuild the ukraine. net to rebuild that, that the nato countries have, at least their leaders have no intention of ending this thing anytime soon. they have grandiose plans. go ahead, andre. well, they may have, well, whatever blast they won. bach august aware generals forgets bear pure military industrial art on this bold spectacle and ask one of their users oboski national my blog. yes,

the beautifully comment that are on that you show all the shortages over there. for example, are culinary shells for the united states were get your brain by the states and yes, as bobby our project dial dysfunction, an o business. you and there are people who are in charge. they say that are, you'll all, it takes about 4 to 5 years through united states to even begin produce a shout in the one that is necessary. and wanted to see with c l a. to remind us failure on late us bar to be at work til dash or requirements of the more of their own walk with the peer which does different again. oh, specially when you see there that decline. yeah. deterioration if not was at the degeneration of maybe live rekey by religious or maybe in the last 20 years. oh good because. ringback august that it's all about skinning and yes,

you're right. so many senior yours there. i bought so many positions which way. wow, you know why you won't bother song militarily. nathan is only great. the full find . the 3rd world small nations like e b, i and they are, oh, well yeah. i mean you have someone like huh. own me. stilton berg, and others, burrell saying that if, if a russia prevails in ukraine, it's a defeat for the weston defeat for nato. well that's i, i agree with that and i look forward to that because of all of this will come to an end. and then we'll have cooler head sitting down and say, let's have a charity arrangement for the entire continent. would probably wouldn't need to be that all that much militarized, if you think about it. at the last 30 seconds before we go to the break. i completely agree we live in a militarist time. everybody is intoxicated with weapons of weapons, weapons,

all kinds of problems. we should have done long ago that what was needed at the time. and gorbachev suggested that a new security structure built on common security, defense, defense companies, military and civilian defense, a european united nation or something like that. we did not do that. we're trying to expand, it may be on the risk nature. maybe h and organization is expand. yeah, that's a lot with new members. it knows it's a, it's an alliance that exists to exist. gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we have to go to what heartbreaking up about, hard break will continue our discussion on nato doubling down. stay with our t ah ah,

[000:00:00;00] ah . ah, the 1st time in history, an entire country's culture has been cancelled. the very modern weapon cancel, culture, daily dash one, the global sheffield malice, who thought in wembley fraud kit, just me sitting there. i know you put glue. the phrase now particularly refers to

counseling russian culture yet know what to create the few oroscoe. because if you're, when you're my folks, you're putting over your that is cha, mozilla, that go with them. most of us have reached a random e. normally, what rushes created over the past 1500 years is now questioned, harshly, condemned, reviled, and rejected. to sit in on your cell phone at the will of bramble, there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. anytime you said a little short list, joining total condemnation, gross daily, and now includes dostoevsky to cascade, shostakovich that i need to you all the tour left. but yes, it also says that what i may just be all the time. will you do? obama lee? you're not going to do that

a little bit more. ah, ah, welcome back. across stock, we're all things considered. i'm peter labelle. to remind you, we're discussing nato doubling down with . okay, let's go back to daniel lake jackson, m e r. stockton, bergen, he's. he's very pissy. i would say when he speaks, he and i know if he of notice is this kind of nato ease that he's always talking about did didn't really make a whole lot of sense. a lot of it is circular reasoning, but this is what he had to say in bucharest, on his anniversary visit from 2008. he was there, he right, whom reminds us, president putin cannot deny sovereign nations to make their own sovereign decisions . but i guess that doesn't apply to russia. thoughts, daniel, sovereign peoples, you know, y'all made

a great point about nato's existence. it's only to expand. it's kind of like the sam bank mon freight of military alliance, isn't it? i was wondering who is going to come up with bad connection in this program? you were the 1st one, go keep going. you have to keep pulling in new suckers to keep, you know, surviving. and, you know, i mean, nato is the home of failed scandinavian politicians, and that's the case. and when you let these people of the politics in the scandinavians make your defense policy, you've got a big problem because you have a problem of moral hazard. the people in the poles as well, the people who have it in for russia are sucking everyone else into fighting their fight for them. and it's a huge, huge problem. nato should never expand that. a good friend of mine at the state department. the time was chief ins in charge of promoting need to expansion in the ninety's, he sent me a note saying how much he regrets the role that he played in arguing for the

expansion of nato to poland and hungary in the 1st round. and i think a lot of people are feeling that way, but nevertheless, the u. s. is going to train $2500.00 cranium soldiers. we've heard now. it's going to be a massive increase. that's about like 3 days on the battlefield. exactly. let me let andre react to that here because, you know, when they talk about a 100000 rounds, are going to be sent in 1500 troops in the andre, in the scheme of things on a battlefield. what kind of numbers to this really mean? because it looks more like p r to me, i'm not a military person. and so it says $100000.00 rounds. maybe i'll be in press. your military person. does that, you know, is i get you through your breakfast, go ahead on that. i yeah, they are being the one all the battle right now. again, i entirely agree most with this be more for the problem solving. all the internal political problems bought the scale all down,

so to speak. 8 in reality is looking freezing is actually a decrease because there's very little laugh who supply your brain with enough force. are you in this look war, colonel mcgregor? i do not have an independent numbers. so i have to refer under here are russia has now about 540000 utils, along their borders of the former ukraine. and we can only guess for capitals wants the ground freezers. so have your thought and brought all been congress troops come in bengal, making a difference whatsoever by now are st saw warner alliance and she was on tuesday. she saw her spoke with the tools, at least she gave the pearl or are more or order of there. are you printing of gammel,

just both k i. e z m wounded with your deductible going from there. so we're looking at about a $454.00 or 500000. unfortunately, brain again, just with more than 100000 killed and another 3 before 800000 wounded. ah, yeah, that's pretty much you'd flaw real armed forces for crane and wish out this feedback pulls something with the brain young on a soldiers complaining that they've been thrown into their product line without any preparation. any song yet lucky them for any $4500.00 or whatever. if you 200 are there. so now i don't know will they can rainbow you owe them for so it just you know, run again a graft and money making as much as they can. yeah. i me, yeah, this is one of the things it's really kind of perplexing. if you look at it from a common sense point of view, we do, you know that in, in march there were maneuvers to, for some kind of

a termination of the conflict in stem bull. i take those reports very credibly and but you have an elite that wants to continue the war, and i'm sorry, maybe i that it sound like a broken record, but it's about the griff that keeps the money coming in. everything is a fundraiser like fundraising. take another farm, they take another village fund, raise fundraise, because they know the jig is going to be up eventually. and they just want to hear as much wealth as they possibly can. maybe, you know, selling stuff off on the black market, which there are credible reports of bad as well. i mean, it, i'm trying to understand the mindset of this elite here because what, you know, using your own people as fodder on such a massive scale shows, at least there's a disconnect here. we know that it's a one party state right now. there's no freedom of speech and the west. it sees this image of ukraine that doesn't even exist. so it seems like it's a real money making event here before you know they,

they have to cross to rubicon and say, well, there's not much crane left. go ahead young. well, i don't really know how much economy is driving this. what we're facing is all over the world. and in most countries of the world is one nuclear, isn't that he's part of something else called me mac, the military, industrial media, academic complex. it's much more than i now i talked about the military industrial complex, and the least you talk about a characterized, whether in russia, whether in nature, whether in you, whether in, you know, any country with the military. they are all conflict resolution and peace, illiterate. there is no, yeah, and i, i, i do, i do have to push back a little bit there. i don't think there's any indication russia wanted to have a military conflict in ukraine. if you look from 2014, particularly with the qu in,

in care of russia, born, that the very existence of ukraine was at hand. here. we have been december of last year to say almost exactly a year ago, warnings that if you do not change direction, we're going to all be in trouble. so i do have to push back on that. ok. the military industrial complex as it existed, russia is nothing like it is in the united states. okay. because russia doesn't look for foreign wars. the u. s. does daniel react to that was very interesting. i was not saying that i will, i guess what i'm saying there isn't parody on that one issue. that's all i'm saying. okay, daniel, go ahead. that's not what i said. i ok, i'm correcting myself. ok, i didn't, i'm correcting my. so go ahead. i think you should my just did for the 2nd time. go ahead, daniel. i'm just going to say, what's interesting is that when i met with these mothers of soldiers,

recently he issued kind of a very rare self correction, which you don't often hear from you. he's a very confident leader, doesn't often in public say that he was wrong, but he admitted in so many words that he was wrong in 2014. yeah. when he decided to pull back into not accept the don bass into russia to not accept the please of the russians in the area to be freed of the torture that they had suffered from kiev all this time. and i think that was very telling, he understands he understood, and he said it out loud. that his reticence to enter into this military conflict at the time, caused a lot of pain and suffering of the people in the best. and i think he must feel very acutely the, the pressure, the, the, the sense that, that he's let people down. and i think that probably drives a lot of what he's doing right now. yeah, i mean, andre, one of the things that western audiences don't understand because they're so

propagandized. but, you know, the eastern part of the dumbass crimea, these are domestic political issues in russia. they're not foreign issues. ok. and, and there's that there is a very strong connection right there. and i agree with daniel, i mean, there's an interesting on the, there's an interesting juxtaposition here. nato can never admit that it's wrong. vladimir putin, it admitted that he was wrong on something 8 years ago. go ahead, andre. well, when you do, you have their own business with the fact that brocky chance actually on one which is a few months. and now that you stayed somewhere. he was speaking from the human heart, michelle from das, including for example, if you'll remember, his musical direct response or at that. and the grocery store was people the invasion all day. the national paris in 1999 saw air. he's drinking this in our shop of what that's fuel once speaking,

in terms of there are real situation in full 1014 rational wasn't already yet to face. what would, how far inevitably and which, how far it she wasn't reading. and in this case, yes, it's both of michelle that people come down better, but it wasn't human that mission as the states ran. ah, i agreed that on that one off dime and many a state of this, russia hasn't been already if a 1050 and it's fucking at a different game now. and yeah, it is a human emotion of the spark. and he is going to be a very emotional, an honest man, especially with speaking to them. august was that it's an, i mean, if nato doesn't change course, than what we're going to see is more conflict in this, in this part of the world in the, on the european continent here. because it's very clear to me that the only way this conflicts and isn't russia gets what it wants. it's about. it's black and

white. to me go ahead young one minute you young guy, well met some mixture. that's a mixture of the 2 things. the war and the mile in some of the weapons symptoms alarm the lying conflicts. it's my 1st patient who goes to a doctor and say, i had a year and the doctor owned. it discusses the pain and doesn't go to a diagnosis to find out where us ain't come from. and unless all russia, ukraine, nate o u, n, et cetera, begin to start talking about weapons and war. and be obsessed with that. then and go to the discussion of underlying conflicts. you can never solve the complete. if you look at symptoms and weapons and the violence only, then that becomes a continuing this for years. but if you want peace and that's my profession, you have to look at do a diagnosis of the underlying conflicts. and then discuss who can be immediate. who

could say when we, with which tables, which issues to discuss how to eat a little bit every day to watch something that or parties can live with. there is no future for europe, neither know, east or west. if we continue focusing just on the, on that dynamics, that was that dynamics, the weapons, and the military thinking that is imbued in everybody's mind, okay, we've run out of time, but i can't, i can't think of a better way to end the program than onions, words very, very wise words. this all the time we have many thanks to my guess and like jackson moon and in washington state. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our dc you next time. remember cross talk with ah

ah ah ah oh is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed? what will make you feel safer? isolation, whole community. are you going the right way?

where are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah, for the 1st time in history and entire countries, culture has been trashed with a very modern weapon. cancel culture. daily desert one lucille malice, who thought in when william fraud kit just me sitting there, i knew it would preclude the phrase now, particularly refers to canceling russian culture yet and know what to create the fuels go because it has yet to when you're my folks,

your 20 will be on there. it's charlie mozilla that though the most of december i haven't m e des moines reward. russia has created over the past 1200 years, has now questions, partially condemned, reviled, and rejected. she said in line and you started to put some in at the will of bramble. there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. anytime i guess it wouldn't. sure. they said thanks all spheres of life, including those in which russia had played leading cultural roles, art, music and sport christian again in i was a little busted to sell them a full truck with a 1000000 nickerson, the renewal were recorded feminist, pretty well known in essentially it means the show can't and won't go on show you put ricci test for kudos. he's cooperating those leakage a ground. this will be that, you know who for will be. yeah, my air bill, but you may not charge the list. joining total condemnation gross daily and now