ah ah ah ah, i'm african rich and see in a big welcome back to going underground of the 10 months off air. we're no longer in census city, london instead coming to you from the heart of the middle east to buy of the u. k. a. and e, you press freedom, restrictions made it difficult for us to bring you the stories. truth and balance. you want to hear much has happened since we've been away. but the nature of proxy war on russia through ukraine still rages on. now,

coming back to join me from rome to talk about the global transformation we're witnessing as the guest of our last show, almost a year ago, asked to croak was a top adviser to the used de facto foreign minister. he advised the use high representative, a common foreign and security policies, the founder of angio conflicts forum. thanks so much allister for coming back on before we were rudely interrupted. i better just ask you before, before we get into any of the geopolitical issues, what you make of the levels of censorship. i know you're in rome, but across europe and a well to an extent the united states does have a 1st amendment. there are voices of dissent there, but on the european continent, european continent, it's terrible. it's a complete suffocation of speech. there's one narrative aloud and only one narrative and everything else is filtered out. the press is much more controlled. overall the whole european press, i'm not talking about the u. k or,

or further afield. the press has its speaking nodes, sticks to it rigorously. everything is controlled, you can step out of line. you say the wrong think someone says the wrong thing on a television channel. they lose their job. very, very strict press control. yeah. i mean a britain of courses previously band. there are t, c, g t, n press tv, old plethora of different giles european union, called about c, g, t and the chinese television channel. just a 2nd of the media. i mean your equivalent now advising joseph burrell, the delay in foreign minister that you equivalent foreign minister. i mean, surely they realize the importance of at least listening to all sides before making decisions on important strategic decisions on, on issues that affect the mortality in the you this winter, that alone, i think geopolitical considerations. no,

i don't think they do. and i don't think they do it because there's a real sense here in europe and in brussels, that the narrative must be maintained at all costs that if the narrative fails, then they fail. then the west failed. democracy fails. so the narrative, and if you like, undermining and trashing the narrative of anyone else has become so important. it's all of those hedge many of narrative and that we must keep it. but it's actually not working. i mean, it's very obvious. if you look at the world around us, that they see the narrative doesn't work and they see it because things are changing in the rest of the world. and people are starting to say, well, you know, you, europe, your chest one voice, you're just one civilization. but the china and india and iran and those russia and you know, you only speak, feel cells,

don't try me speak for us. we don't want you to speak for us. your problems are not the world's problems. and we are our own side. when all, oh you are against you. we just want to be ourself with our own values and our own standards. and so this is really threatening to the west because they feel that if they lose the sense that their way of doing things, their way of politics, their way of economic equals the vision of the future for the rest of the world. if that starts to fail and come collapse, then it's over. the western hedge money is gone. so there's this great emphasis so they don't want to check. in fact, i think they prefer not to craig to cross check to counterbalance what they hear from one side with looking and looking and hearing from another as one used to do because the narrative has to prevail. and so even if it's patently false,

even if the lie eggs are so obvious that it's almost ridiculous, they stick with the narrative. and the strange thing is, is that they're not conscious that the rest of the well, caesar and laughs and they say, you know, your bizarre, you've become so weird in the west. i mean, you're completely tied up with your merits and your squabbles. and we're laughing at you and we don't want your narrative because we've moved to a different paradigm of civilizational states and you know, our voices out there and your voice is just one voice. and it's not universal. yeah, i want to get onto the conversations in barley at that g 20 summit, where the vast majority of humanity there are away for away from your but i don't know how expensive the del acquires were. that you talked with javier alana in brussels or and so about how do you square all of what you just said with the,

the fact that enlightenment values, per se, are so often quoted in the academy in european capital, let alone the fact that it's our way of live the rules based order, but they draw back, they say to the enlightenment and i don't know. thomas pain hor, id is a freedom of expression and freedom generally. you know, after the 2nd world war, there was a sense that they were quite persuasive that the enlightenment values. but i think what's happened now in the world is large, the rest of the world is the sense of understanding that really it was something of a sham because these values are to project. it has become rather abstract. if you like, it's become an operating system, an operating political system, quite cynical, operating system and not quite

a cynical economic system. and that they see that this was a product of a particular european period of thinking. i mean, we talking about adam smith, john, lock, newton. i mean, this individual isn't, this was the hero of individuals. and that great. the other thing with the enlightenment that we thought, you know, europe thought that because it was word distinctly secular, then it was neutral. and everyone would see it was therefore neutral. but that's not true for the muslim world. it's not true in india or it's not true in china or in many ways either they see secularism as a particular product product, the product of western thinking and inimical to spirituality. to religious, even in russia, to the revival of the orthodox church,

which is so important. and they understand that you cannot get back energy into your society, into your community without some understanding beyond just a little of moving beyond that. you have to have the narrative, the missed the stories, the moral stories that give your community meaning and give it a certain a certain death. and without that, you, you don't, you haven't nothing except the sort of assess the descent into liberalism and cynicism. and this is the danger of inheriting the sort of ne hillis them that grew up in the west and in the into war, carry it as a danger to all civilizational states who still have, you know, apart who have values a legacy that they've taken from the past and which sort of gives reinvigoration and re re ignite their civilizations. so that secularism has now seemed to

be very much a tool of the west for hedge many i mean there are many secular people but they don't like the sort of enforced secularism. of of the enlightment any longer, i mean secularism is it can be a choice, but it's not something that they want to see in forced and embedded in the world book world order go global audit date when i, when i would say that they probably do have identity politics as a replacement to that origin story, but then they don't seem to remember how many l g b d q blessed people, they've killed in iraq, afghanistan, syria, and elsewhere, arguably. but then you mentioned president g, and i don't know whether you heard that the latest british are prime minister forcefully saying the golden age is over with china. it seems that they want not to

fights, not one fight with their moscow, but definitely china is the bigger deal. why would the stress strategists in europe feel this is in any way whether it's class of it's war theory or whatever a, a good way of her jotting the future now that they've lost their energy supplies. and of course, their mobile phones are the components come from china. they don't, they don't think that they are just a ponies in this game. they don't have any agencies, they don't have any ability. and what i think we seen very clearly is that the united states is prepping europe and we saw that will exactly with that speech to say you, you described at the mention house by the u. k. prime minister. we see it with my crohn and in europe way there heating up the language that they wish to use with china about human rights,

about that identity politics that you just described. which of course, is an antique culture culture rather than being a culture culture. so they're hitting this up and the aim, i think it's very clear they're going to try and force and will succeed. enforcing europe to cut with china in trade and economic means altogether impose the same sort of isolation as they see it on russia. of course, russia isn't isolated the talk, but to, from that perspective, you put up another if you like, on curtain, not just with russia, but with trade with china a little bit at the edges may be, but nothing substantial, nothing strategic china and america, the so asperity the strangers therapy that is being advocated by, you know, conservative party in the u. k. i mean it. and so that part, you case going into recession clearly. and so what do they want?

you know, to cut services to increase tax. i mean, it's just like greece in 2008, i mean, imposing austerity in order to force europe. now having abandoned having lost, if you like it, supplies of materials and energy from russia is now to, to lose the technology and the markets of china. and to reconcile itself to being, if you like, just a field in which some united states can come and pack industries which are no longer competitive. and moving across to the united states. i saw a news item the other day that one and 4 german industries are considering now in transferring production somewhere else because they're just no longer competitive when their energy costs are so high compared to the energy costs and united states were nate issue or, and certainly let alone russia, i mean, they all astronaut,

i'm so industry is, is going to be removed and they re, industrialization. all of all of the united states is going to come out of the bones of rather smaller, rather diminished europe as to quote, i'll stop you there. more from the top advisor to the use high representative, a common forwarded security policy after this break. ah, ah ah ah, [000:00:00;00]

a welcome back to going undergrad. i'm still here with former british diplomats and foundry conflicts for allister crook. dizzy, i mean you seem to be presenting it like the european leaders or some sort of i, sis is the sense that they're so fundamentalists about destroying their entire way of life. i mean, the, the ambulance drivers are on strike, i understand in, in britain that's what is written as to look forward to this winter. where does this rigidity come from? i mean, i wouldn't describe it isis, but of a, you know, zealots on ukraine. i mean, all you hear about this is ukraine, ukraine as a symbol for european values. while anyone who knows ukraine would find that

connection is sort of ukraine as the sort of paragon of democracy and lack of corruption rather strange and bizarre. but it's not about that. i mean, it's, it's, it's a war in russia, again, another war on russia to add to a long list of european contentions. and it's pursued, of course, by the, principally by the anglers here, against russia. and is in a sense, deeply at the bottom, at the deeply about the fact that russia is returning to orthodoxy. and it is in a sense that old war of the, if you like the war in which protestantism scored this great victory over orthodox catholic thinking. and now here,

roger is coming back with values with traditions with ideas. then with her affinity, contra, remember his name, but as the senator is new in new us, who said, we have to continue and destroy russia because it is becoming an orthodox power. ok . so is this something under the, under the surface to this that needs to be sort of examined a little further to why is it so so intense the need to sanction and destroy? and of course, this was the biggest intelligence failure ever in the reef. in this era, because the intelligence service is told, the can lead us listen it slam dunk is easy. just put all these sanctions on hand. russia will collapse and they'll be political chaos in moscow. and they'll force putin out. and then in a month or 2, you can go back to getting cheap energy from

a compliant new leadership in, in moscow, when we got rid of the gang that, i mean, they really bought into the they believe the, you know, the sanctions, it was just collapse within a very short time, and then we could all go back to normal and get cheap energy and it would be be done. i mean, they didn't, i mean, they bought into the idea that, you know, that somehow russia was, you know, this gas station in the desert and nothing more and a tiny economy when it isn't at all, is probably a bit bigger than germany's economy. it's not. you know, the size of new york state or something like that that they try and face. but this has been the narrative. and the western leaders just took it and accepted it. and now i got themselves painted into a double corn. they haven't got energy. it, they, tech industry is going to be wholly uncompetitive. and now with this reduction of inflation act in the united states,

which is subsidies to companies moving to the united states that use american components and input, they're going to lose the industry to. i mean, you couldn't get a worse situation that they put themselves into and for sure this is going to lead to contraction of the economy, contraction of employment, and really a catastrophic. he cannot make situation coming well, the way you painted it as russia, in effect, destroys, annihilate the european union. it has been helped, hugely, by alliances in the global south. and of course, with the bricks, countries and other shang, i cooperation, organization. countries. has it surprised you the ability now to laugh, not quite laugh, but withstand us treasury sanctions, which were the ultimate power. i know, you know, cuba obviously has which them so many as iran has withstood them, but how does it surprise you?

yeah, but i 1st wanted to just take issue and say, you know, the pens did this to themselves. i mean, you know, russia didn't put the sanctions on them. they sanctioned russia at the behest of a washington and against the advice of the federal reserve. as i understand it, and again, the advice of other banks to do this to sanction this russian central bank they did in the misguided expectation that this was going to be an easy victory for europe. it turned out to be anything but that now yes, i think, i mean, it was quite clear. this was all predicated on the sort of plan of $997.00, which nearly worked destroying the russian economy was the run on the ruble. they destroyed the financial system, the was the was if you like, come orland, moscow. but out of that,

tom oil arose pushing and he spent his time making the russian economy self sufficient. he spent time in changing and reforming the economy and the west didn't notice. and they didn't check, they didn't do their homework. they didn't think this through before they dived in on the, you know, hang glossy, an idea that they could just bring down russia. i mean, the europe and union were so great, we can bring down. we're now an empire, we can bring down russia by our economic power and the end it's bringing down europe. but russia didn't, did we did it to ourselves. but on the other hand, has this decline and operates at a hastening pace this winter, that the deaths in britain excess. that's what tens of thousands of people as the lights go out in them. across monuments, let alone in the houses of the poor in european countries. can the media attenuate

any opposition to power so that the peoples of europe will blame moscow rather than blame their own governments for destroying their livelihoods? oh, that's going to be of course, i mean, repeated every time you can't listen to a speech without. you know, it's the push in energy that putins food hostage making as hostage on food every time if, you know, putins inflation putins energy crisis, of course. but i think, i mean the, the role. no, it's certainly not going to work because it's going to be really severe this crisis . and this is why they're trying to protect themselves. because, you know the narrative that the european union narrative is collapsing, not just the western one, because the european union narrative has been, the europe has agency because it is

a big economy. it can deal on an equal footing with the united states with china and russia. and now this is exposing it as complete nonsense. it just has to do what washington tells it to do. it is just, i mean they, as one french commentator, put it, we address of athens or washington and it's now apparent and i think your opinions will be angry, but the role and the purpose of the european political costs will be to make sure these protest don't get traction, they will be they will be dealt with severely. so we need to better mind where people are criticizing anything that's happening elsewhere in the world. there were about all the protests that have been so far held in europe have been met quite severe and quite violent action by police forces to, to stop them. they're going to try and they,

they are confident that they can keep control in these means i doubt it. i'm not social. well, britain is restricting protest rights, but isn't their life in the old had human yet in the sense that american diplomats can tell the european counterparts. look, we are striking deals in the global south. we watch a un meeting live on a streaming service. you'll see that there are countless proxy gro, was out nation only too willing to bow down to everything that washington says often they have u. s. bases, there has been, maduro. seems to be welcoming chevron back pakistan. i think he bron con, was saying in the financial times, her article, you know, us relationships are important, isn't their life. i mean, if europe is gone, i isn't there a life in those global south alliance is still can they still not be bought off, or rather than seeing the china is the new power the century, i think they've lost it and i think they've lost it. if and in latin america,

which you just quoted, because if you extract mexico from the statistics, because mexico is rather a special case, it's sort of almost integrated into the u. s. economy. take out america, mexico. and then you will find the trade. the overwhelming trade is with china and not with united states. the china is the largest trading partner with the global last, the united states, even in the backyard. so that is the case, but this what the, what you just said about isn't the sort of life in the old head, you know, look what's happening, the math is changing. it's really moving. i mean, there's a rush towards the brakes to the shanghai cooperation. well, can i say, should country saudi arabia, india, south africa, turkey, all these be powerful states moving into the your asian project and

are not accepted and very deliberately snobby. and that's what happened in the t 20, they snob, the g 7 when they tried to infest, you know, that they had to. and they had to isolate russia and condemn it from ukraine. because none of that through, in the, in the final communicate at all. they didn't succeed in dividing china from russia . they were desperate to get china to criticize russia. it didn't happen. time and time again. he just said, you know, no one will pressure. you mentioned daddy, arabia. i mean, i don't know, read linda, the seventy's, the response of saudi arabia in the u. a where i'm speaking to you from. when they angrily denounced the united states try to call on the increase in production. they angrily denounced here in the you

a fake news wall street journal article that in fact it was all agreed they were going to increase oil production, what pressure can buy it and put on the gcc countries as they appear to not be doing what they're told when they tried to do that, they tried to do that very clearly and, you know, biden gave his instructions about how they wanted the price of oil to come down and decide is practically thumb their nose at him. and it was a snob, was seen across the middle east. and so what's going to happen this month, the presidency is going to come to re add the, the 1st trip east made. i think after other them to some account. and he's going to come to read for meetings and b. s. and also with the gulf cooperation council. i think it will be a major. it will be

a major meeting and we will have to see what comes from it. and just finally, i know you've written about about this, and i know that president outside of syria, surprisingly visited abu dhabi and, and dubai who would have thought we did one of the exclusive world interviews in the middle of the syrian so called civil war, or rather nato proxy war you talk about how there are trucks with the russian zed symbol on band in europe, and the standard where joe biden, around, where joe biden's, a military are stealing oil from the syrian people. yes, it is right. they are. and you know, there is a sense that people have come to understand this, if you like this resistance against the west, a narrative that our way of doing things has to be your way of doing things. and that's your vision for the future will stop in and it's getting

a sort of general. it's picking up the iconography from you crate. and it's called, you know, well daughter said to represent the fact that this is a summing of the lows. they a western hedge many a resistance, i mean, not a militarized resistance, but a political resistance against the idea that the west to find sets and implements a globe broader for the rest of the one. that's the correct. thank you. and that's it for the show will be back next week with another brand new episode. but until then, you can still keep in touch with us by all our social media of it's not sensitive in your country, but you can always head to the channel going on the grantee on rumbled or come to watch new and old episodes going undergrad. see very soon, ah

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ah ah moscow condemns a decision by the g 7 and you to impose the price crap on russian oil exports well below current market rate. that's after an earlier warning that it won't comply with the plan deal on must backs up allegations of a shadow. censorship scheme by twitter as former management with the muzzling of the hunter. biden laptops. scoop apparently just the tip of the iceberg. this is the epicenter of the world. worse industry dissolves death, a disaster that changed the face of the city forever. it's been 38 years since the