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mm hm. hello welcome to wells a party, a few days ago the merriam webster dictionary selected gas lighting as its worth of the year for 2022 defining it as the act of practice of grossly misleading someone, especially for one's own advantage. and notice that the usage of this worth increased by over 1700 per cent throughout the year. that's your politics, have anything to do with it? well, to discuss that i'm now joined by the income. i came the visiting lecture in law at the university of westminster. mister making, this is great to talk to you. thank you very much for ranting at this time. thank

you for having me. now let me, i, 1st of all ask you about this very curious phenomenon of gas lighting and it's increased popularity both as a worth. and i assume as a, as a phenomenon in english speaking countries. and i stress, specifically english speaking country because for example, in the russian language, we don't have such as such a word or an idea. there is a concept of why there's a concept of truth, but nothing in between. what does it tell you about social relations, social changes that this kind of phenomenon seems to be taking on such a prominence? well, i think it goes beyond the politics. i think it, it tends to be a modus operandi through which establish don't tend to operate in say this in, in regards to, you know, big events,

things to do with the iraq war, things to do with the, the, the clash of cultures. so culture in america, in britain, and also do politics and quite specifically with this issue of russia also not exclusively to russia. so in a sense, yes, i think it's very important that the west should listen to all view points. they don't appear to and i'm quite aware of what president vladimir mentioned about what he considered to be the empire lies, which is quite an extraordinary response to the success of states of the soviet union, which is described as the empire evil. and the em, you know, the free speech. absolutely, and i think that's a person to,

to now that those lies, i know just a manufactured out of a will there specifically conjured up to influence public opinion. and this is not actually a new phenomenon long before a gas lighting. i think it was in the 19th century that depression and general and war theories. carl one classmates coined this term, the longest war. but in his time, it man this state of incomplete, dubious iranian information that a decision makers to make wrong calculation. so i take wrong decisions. do you think we have come to the point in the 21st century when the fund one doesn't just exist as a, as a natural reality, but essentially manufacturing deliberately. i think there's no question about that. i mean, one can pick up quite a few notable examples just from this tragic when you crane,

where certain events were posited as having happens. but i had to be backtracked, you know, for instance of the issue of a snake island. so call here a snake island. what is particularly going about is that many in the west should be aware that these narratives have been exposed for being lies that they are, but yet they keep full in for them. and this is a very worrisome thing. it's something that's all may actually party in war. let's not forget the russian military doctrine includes a master, which is all about the section. but what is particularly noticeable is that these forms of deception and the intelligence services,

or military intelligence services from the west are not checked. you mentioned close to which the very way in which the russian federation is prosecuted. this intervention, you know, you find that they've been saying that russia is losing the war. the russian military is incompetent. and this is disturbing because you have military figures such as general former general contract david betray us. you also have general wesley clark and they are talking heads, but they fail to recognize the russian military doctrine of which is based in part or certainly analogous to that of the doctrine of warfare. a terry, what is about an enemy?

and so when i see that even if you have a particular points to make, you should engage with the opposite. you mentioned that it took very difficult to sort through the various narrative, especially given that they are so polarized. i wonder how do you personally see through all these a gas and park here arrive at your own analysis. do you have any rules that you follow? you know that you arrive at, you know, your own opinions. you need to be aware of all the different views and you need to access those fields. so it doesn't help if r c and other russian outlets are bad. because, you know, i, i was growing up. i was a child during the cold war. and for quite frankly, you know, i would, you know, i love social radio with. 2 you know,

voice voice of moscow, road rage and moscow, albania, and you know, i could see the section i could actually see full cities there. there's no question about that. the problem is this dis, disconnect that the roster of today is the soviet union of the past. and so if the voice of russia, the soviet union was so so wrong, what is there to fear? why would you need to ban those forces from, from russia? i simply do not understand it because you can then pull it up to scrutiny and then read it. so it, that tells me i think those who are thinking those who come from an athenian mode of thinking rather than a jerusalem thing able to sort out well, well, let's try to think out loud together. i heard you say before the american and to

some extent native policy is predicated in point on creating and i'm is even the one objective reality allows for peace and compromise. and i wonder, what do you think is driving these dynamic and is it primarily economic or psychological? well, i mean, i think you can speak about this song unless you have a proper historical and contemporary context of the animals of the west. the united states lead nato to was russia. and it's all again from the, the, you know, the ending of the cold war. that russia, the, you know, the quote unquote victory of the western ideology over the soviet wall still necessitated russia should be subjugated. and so every full foreign policy by the west has been good to subjugated russia by

a preowned attack. that involves a military aspect, an informational aspect, and definitely an economic aspect. and these are being continuous and we will, we can go through that. we can identify that we can look at the issues on the military side of all the, you know, the painstakingly built out of nuclear safety treaties. you know, things like the like souls, the city of mutation treaty, all those treaties that followed seem to have been dismantled and the dismantling has not come from the russian side is coming from the west side. well, and this is actually an interesting question because i think a part of the rationale that job, that this mental and is the belief among some decision makers, particularly in europe. but i think also within the wider west that war as

a means of geopolitics is absolute. at least on the european continent and many of my progress, if european france absolutely a gas by the fact that there are people who are fighting and dying in that thousands in the, in the midst of the continent. but i wonder if these readiness to abandon the war and to believe that war is no longer possible. no matter how you push russia, he'll not buying back with weapons. don't you think that it's in part responsible for this conflict, this type of pacifist take thinking? well, i mean, the way i certainly understand it is that these pressures were designed to force russia into a situation in which it would either voluntarily submitted sovereignty to the west, or it would lash out and part of the strategy of the economic warfare against russia. and the colonization that occurred during the time of the seals and was

this idea of vocation reaction. russia has been essentially reacting. you just need to look at the evidence there. and also each reaction they are sanctions imposed. so i think the idea was that eventually russia would be ground to sort of sort subjugation. i think there was a belief and i think there is still a belief within some american circles, that war is such an unimaginable course of action that it is so detrimental and that it's actually so horrible that one. yeah, russia will have to swallow whatever it is. it's way without actually, you know, taking an initiative and fighting back. yes, i think um, obviously that is, that is clearly not correct. and then obviously the united states is instigated

many was both over and over. you know, the destruction of iraq and syria destruction of libya. we've seen the occupation of afghanistan. and, you know, in these situations those, those are active was i think obviously where the disconnect is that was closer to home with european people all bits days. that song takes over the superiority of the anglo saxon over the la, certainly when it comes to russia, but it also rears its head in other instances. and so that idea about war b, the ultimate evil, i think, is a correct way to approach human relations. unfortunately, you're not going to be successful in achieving that. if your doctrine is based on that of aggression and confrontation, it's making the we have to take

a short break right now, but we will get back in just a few moments they can ah, for ah

ah, welcome back to one's a point with the income i kinda visiting, lecturer in law at the university of western instant. mister making the, i know that you have a particular interest in the history of aspirin, osh and secure interest that is such an interesting topic because intelligent services have always played their role in your politics. but of the last decade, i think it has turned into a rule. bowen, spyware, especially in syria, when you had one convert action against another. and there are also proliferation of private armies, and many countries preferred to use convert means rather than a birth wants. why do you think convert the operations? i'm proliferating in this. suppose it age of transparency and do you think the

ukranian conflict will change any of that? because i think what russia did, and launching this a military operation, it's essentially calling a spade a spade, and it's going out. can that typically to define its interest rather than relying on the intelligence services? yeah, i mean, i think the whole idea about wars is that you try not to reveal your hand. your hand remains and i think they are obviously caught despite the protestations, the idea that war is something of the past. the full blame was some of the past. the idea of using a proxy is more satisfactory. this is clear to the case in ukraine, which is obviously x lion state is being used to fight russia. and there's no question about that. and i think there hasn't been a developmental of it. i think it's always existed. you know, there were property was during the cold war, number of them situated in on the african continent and go,

and you see up here. so it, i wouldn't necessarily call it a phenomenon because nature revealed it in the sense obviously in iraq is a full blown evasion by american forces and those items also erica. and also in libya, you did see the air force is the use of missiles from, from the mediterranean, by nature to guide islamist proxy army to overthrow mcgaffey. so this use of proxies, particularly those involvement extremist policies. it's money. if you go back to the century, started with the british empire, even the germans were involved in that sort of warfare. but a modern times, you can connect it with the recreate situation. in modern times, you find the eisenhower administration using the muslim brotherhood to attack

the secular government. so i don't master in egypt. so the whole idea about, well, i guess yes, has been fine. and it's privatization. have been find you, which is actually the russian line. who created them? it's in africa. so a, you mentioned native being involved in all this well in african conflict in the bay area as well indirectly. but it has always denied that its purpose is that sort of new times purpose is to be aggressive towards russia. do you take this refusal to dismantle, later after the cold war? as a case of i don't know institutional inertia and vested interest bureaucrats and weapons

manufacturers wanting to keep their pay checks or their profits coming on. do you think it was in fact strategic at that point, that is nato continuing to sort of serving the exact purpose that it was created for. i'll be in the plaza with plausible deniability. well 1st thing is the, the role of causal deniability is, is easily overwritten because you can point to position papers, you know, by the rand corporation, which took about a long war in, in the middle east where the united states would use the sunni, shia conflict. and we can see that the evidence came out in the was in libya, was in syria. and we also can see it's in the use of those who profess an alter nationalist eulogy in ukraine. these unholy alliances are there

to see the position of the things that crop in the press have propped up. well, as far as the cold war is concerned, i think that was a moment lost in history, where the security architecture in europe could have been changed. and i think it was out of self interest that nato was natal needed to be maintained because of the military industry, which president eisenhower famously referred to as the military industrial complex out of self interest. it needed to perpetuate itself. and part of the idea of the will, it's doctrine, which in most of that time was to ensure that with the vacuum caused by the fall of the soviet union, then another power, another economical, military competitor would not be able to rise. well, this is why we have the education against russia and china today, but i would just say, look, that's ultimately speaking. you can understand the conflict with russia. if you do

not understand that there is a project to subjugate russia, god who is control in russia. when you turn that person democrats or an autocrat, they need to control the resources, the, a russia, mister making the one thing that i cannot grasp. that is how such an idea. and you wrote extensively the, summoned the worst one to see russia simply as a geographic entity, not as a sovereign state by the geographical entity which is solely dedicated to the service of energy needs of the west. and this is actually not a new idea, a couple of policy makers, american policy makers out on the record stating that as a national interest or national goal. but one thing i can grasp is how such an idea could come into that mind. because i mean, you don't need to have

a very deep knowledge of history to understand the country, the size of russia, the sort of the natural, national and cultural character of russia will never succumb to something like that . why do you think this people believe in, you know, in the possibility of something like this? well, that's the 22 things. one was mentioned is the aspect of american exceptionalism, which in its most positive form, sees america has been dynamic. this creative forces science and culture science. well, there's that only aspect which puts america above the rest of the world. well then that's why, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world should cease to exist to serve that great american vision. if you follow that ideology through, unfortunately it is, it's an obligation of the lights, the lights value, you know,

and capsulated by emmanuel can to spoken to is you know, it's categorical imperative that we deal with other people as humans. and you deal with people according to an ethical principle, is consistent and universal. i will be applicable to you. but unfortunately, this is the reality. also, you have mentioned the neoconservative movements. the people who is involved in that ideology do not know what a backward step is. they will go on and on. they have already led americans to successive disastrous. unfortunately, this is what this is. you know, the, the way where people do not see the reality coming through. unfortunately, they are deliberately, will persist. and i was going to say something here. i think there is a really terrible development in terms of europe not pushing back

because if you go back to readers like all it really branches, atlanta and atlantis and believed in a united europe. i mean, he still had a policy which is something that could be continued to this day along with the mentality of which is the last one that we see the european leaders up here. what fossils. this is not the case a 19 ages when the 1st pipeline, you know, from siberia to western europe. we've been built when americans started imposing sanctions on the soviet union that was pushed by you're going, you know, it said this is against free trade. and that was pushed by market fracture just that he was on fred nations like this way. so this on react to see this on real policies. unfortunately, given back by this i with conduct over you the leaders

in action against their own interests. we only have 2 minutes left and i want to go back to that theme of my games as well as the particular relationship between russia and the great britain. because we often talking about the russian rivalry. but i think the, the relationship between russian and british intelligence services are very, very interesting. and how many people know that, let me put in the 1st visit as a, as russian had a state was to britain specifically to try to normalize historically, there in 10 years or a relationship between our countries. and the relationship is sure to become very even more 10 years, given that the british security and military officers are very, very active in training, a ukrainian and military personnel. they, what do you think is at the bottom of the says, seemingly imperishable and the 10?

well, i mean, i read a few years ago about britain and russian. this is what i, what i felt was fruitless rivalry. you know, britain had, is essentially the 2nd stage really nature. this goes back to its creation. so if you look at, they do something that is dominated by the united states. but the imperial britain, which obviously fly in the past on its torch to america. the 2nd world war has unfortunately, a comfort in play and the 2nd fiddle. what you see ukraine today. that's what happened yesterday is when it came to training these se behind for nato, which actually moved into something a bit more sinister. so it is a big shame because trade is something that the focus should be on. not an espionage games, not an economic warfare. well, you know, the sort of political, a confrontation come with and here

this confrontation continues. and if i'm asking very quickly it's, it's no secret that the ukrainian side now relies very heavily on western intelligence and satellite capability. some russian experts suggest that it's far more detrimental to the russian forces than the western supplied weapons. doesn't that make western countries? no, no, no participants in that warrant. do you think people in britain or in the united states realize that money are going directly to funding this war and fighting against the russians? well, i think given the fact that there is an energy crisis caused by the sanctions imposed on russia which blew back, i think people are getting wind of this and they say ukraine for t sent in it. it is a proxies. it is a proxy war. again,

this is where, yes, the west needs to the western public needs to be educated about that. but it's also where we could see that there were falls from the russian perspective in the way they have conducted this war. if they had to embark on a shock and all war and stuff, obviously vladimir putin wanted to not have a situation with a mass that what, what, what the on mass, it sort of what you would say collateral damage if he, but he's up to, for this those low police action and i was only given the wes the opportunity to widen the conflict and that so i, you know, i, again, i will stress the idea about war. it was not something is not something i would entertain both from the russian side. on the west side,

this is an unnecessary war. they should have implemented the means to court. they should have a quarter the rights to the russian speaking minorities that ukraine. we would have peace with ukraine in a neutral states focusing on developing the potential. i think one of the richest nations on that. well, that would have been possible if again, a gas lighting as a phenomenal deal. politics wasn't so popular because none of that was discussed in its proper time, ultimately on western media, but at least we are thankful that we can have this conversation here i t on mr. mike and i'm really appreciative of your time today with thank you. it was a pleasure. thank you for watching. called to centering down was a part of a

with mm ah ah, opaque bluff menda states, reportedly mo, further oil production codes that says with won't text both of those countries observing the youth price cap with this week's top stories. the commission chief delete the post, play me. that's 100000 ukrainian offices. i think killed in the war. figures around 10 times higher than one released by ukraine. officials back in august and south are because president space is growing corruption obligations with the national parliament to consider whether to begin an impeachment process against him.