as a worth and i assume as a, as a phenomenon in english speaking countries and i stress, specifically english speaking country because for example, in the russian language we don't have such and such a word or an idea. there is a concept of why there is a concept of truth but nothing in between. what does it tell you about social relations social change is that this kind of phenomenon seems to be taking on such a prominence? well, i think it goes beyond the politics. i think it, it tends to be a modus operandi with established government tended to operate in c, this in, in regards to big events, things to do with the iraq war, things to do with the, the clash of cultures. so culture in america, in britain,

and also do politics and specifically with this issue of russia also not exclusively to russia. so in a sense, yes, i think it's very important that the west should listen to all view points. they don't appear to. and i'm quite aware of what president vladimir mentioned about what he considered to be the allies, which is quite an extraordinary response to the success of states of the soviet union, which is described as the empire evil. and the em, you know, the free speech. absolutely. and i think in that speech, president putin, now that those lies, i know, just manufactured out of a will, they are specifically conjured up to influence public opinion. and this is not

actually a new phenomenon long before a gas lighting. i think it was in the 19th century that depression and general and war theories, carl one classmates coined this term, the blog of war. but in his time, it man this state of incomplete, dubious iranian information that lead a decision makers to make wrong calculation. so i take wrong decisions. do you think we have come to the point in the 21st century when the fund one doesn't just exist as an, you know, as a, as a natural reality, but essentially manufacturing deliberately. i think there's no question about that. i mean one can pick up quite a few notable examples just from this tragic when you crane with events with positive as having happens. but i had to be backtracked. you know, for instance of the issue of

a snake island. so call hero masters of snake island. what is particularly galling about this is that many in the west should be aware that these narratives have been exposed for the life that they are, but yet they keep falling for them. and this is a very worrisome thing. it's something that's all, it may actually party in war. let's not forget the russian military doctrine, inclusive mass, you know, which is all about the section. but what is particularly noticeable is that these forms of the section a military intelligence services from the west are not checked. you mentioned close to which the very way in which the russian

federation is prosecuting this intervention. you know, you find that they've been saying that russia is losing the war. the russian military's incompetence. and this is disturbing because you have military figures such as general former general patrol david betray us. you also have general wesley clark and they are talking heads, but they fail to recognize the russian military doctrine of which is based in part or certainly analogous to that of the doctrine of warfare which a client territory what is about an enemy. and so what i see is that even if you have a particular points to make, you should engage with the opposite. you mentioned that it took

very difficult to sort through the various narratives, especially given that they are so polarized. i wonder how do you personally see through all these the gas and talk to you arrive at your own analysis? do you have any rules that you follow, you know that you arrive at, you know, your own opinions. you need to be aware of all the different views and you need to access those fields. so it doesn't help if r t. c and other russian outlets are bad because, you know, i, i was growing up, i was a child during the cold war. and for, quite frankly, you know, i would soon, i lost social radio, which you need to you know, avoid the voice of moscow road rage and moscow, baby. and, you know, i can see the section i could actually see full cities there. there's no question

about that. the problem is this, this disconnect that the rational today is the soviet union of the past. and so if the voice of russia, the soviet union was so wrong, what is there to fear? why would you need to ban those forces from, from russia? i simply do not understand it because you can then pull it up to scrutiny and then ridicule it. so it, that tells me i think those who are thinking those who come from a failure mode of thinking rather than a jerusalem, i'm thinking so well that, well, let's try to think out loud together. i heard you say before the american and to some extent made us policy is predicated in parts on creating and i'm is even the one objective reality allows for peace and compromise. and i wonder,

what do you think is driving these dynamic and is it primarily economic or psychological? well, i mean, i think you can speak about this song unless you have a proper historical and contemporary context of the animals of the west. the united states lead nato to was russia. and it's all again from the, the, you know, the ending of the cold war. that russia, the, you know, the quote unquote, the victory of the western ideology over the soviet wall still necessitated russia should be subjugated. and so every full foreign policy by the west has been good to subjugated russia by a problem. the attack that involves 3 things, a military aspect, an informational aspect, and definitely an economic aspect. and these are being continuous and we will,

we can go through that. we can identify that we can look at the issues on the military side of all the, you know, the painstakingly built out nuclear safety treaties. you know, things like the like souls, the city of mutation treaty, all those treaties that followed seem to have been dismantled and the dismantling has not come from the russian side is coming from the west side. well, and this is actually an interesting question because i think a part of the rationale that job, that this mental and is the belief among some decision makers, particularly in europe. but i think also within the wider west that war as a means of geopolitics is absolute. at least on the european continent and many of my progress, if european france absolutely a gas by the fact that there are people who are fighting and dying in that

thousands in the, in the midst of the continent. but i wonder if these readiness to abandon the war and to believe that war is no longer possible. no matter how you push russia, he'll not buy it back with weapons. don't you think that it's in part responsible for this conflict? this type of pacifist take thinking. well, i mean, the way i certainly understand it is that these pressures were designed to force russia into a situation in which it would either voluntarily submitted sovereignty to the west, or it would lash out and part of the strategy of the economic warfare against russia. and the colonization that occurred during the time of the c l. c. and was this idea of vocation reaction? russia has been essentially reacting. you just need to look at the evidence there

and also each reaction there, sanctions imposed. so i think the idea was that eventually russia would be ground to sort of sort subjugation. i think there was a belief and i think there's still a belief within some american circles that war is such an unimaginable course of action that it is so detrimental. and that it's actually so horrible that a russian will have to swallow whatever is pushed its way without actually, you know, taking an initiative and fighting back. yes, i think obviously that is, that is clearly not correct. and then obviously the united states is instigated many was both over and over, you know, the destruction of iraq and syria destruction of libya. we've

seen the occupation of afghanistan and, you know, in these situations, those are active was i think obviously where the disconnect is that was closer to home with european people, all bits these, that song takes over the superiority of the anglo saxon over the certainly when it comes to russia, but he also rears its head in other instances. and so that idea about war be ultimate evil, i think is a correct way to approach human relations. unfortunately, you're not going to be successful in achieving that. if your doctrine is based on that of aggression and confrontation, mr. making the we have to take a short break right now, but we will get back in just a few moments. thank you. ah

ah, who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing additional strong sanctions. today russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. a list of course seniors you speak on the bill in your senior mostly mind the we're, we're sure we're banding all imports of russian oil and gas who new g. i g with regard to joe by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang with

. mm hm. welcome back to wowza parts with into my kinda visiting lecture in law and the university of washington. and mr. making the i know that you have a particular interest in the history of african nash and secure interest. that is, and such an interesting topic because intelligence services have always played a role in politics. but over the last ticket, i think it has turned into rule blown spyware, especially in syria, when you had one convert action against another. and there are also proliferation of private armies. and many countries prefer to use convert means rather than avert ones. why do you think convert the peroration?

i'm proliferating in this. suppose it age of transparency and do you think the ukranian conflict will change any of that? because i think what the russian did and launching this and military operation, it's essentially calling a spade a spade. and it's going out, natalie to define its interest rather than relying on the intelligence services. yeah, i mean, i think the whole idea about who was, is that you try not to review your hand. your hand remains hidden. i think they are obviously conscious, despite the protestations, the idea that war is something of the past. the full blame was some of the past. the idea of using a proxy is more satisfactory. this is clear to the case in ukraine, which is obviously a client state is being used to fight russia. and there's no question about that. and i think i have, it hasn't been

a developmental of it. i think it's always existed. you know, there were processing was during the cold war of them situated in all the african continent and go, and you see here, so it's, it's, i won't necessarily call it a phenomenon. i start because need to reveal it in a sense, obviously in iraq to blow evasion by american forces and those items also erica. and also in libya, you did see the forces the use of missiles from, from the mediterranean, by nature, to guide islamist proxy army to overthrow mcgaffey. so this use of proxies, particularly those involved with extremist policies, is mon you. if you go back to the century, started with the british empire, even the germans were involved in that sort of warfare. but a modern times,

you can connect it with the recreate situation. in modern times, you find the eisenhower administration using the muslim brotherhood to attack the secular government. so i don't master in egypt. so the whole idea about, well, i guess yes, has been fine. and it's privatization has been find you, which is actually the russian a and africa. so you know, it, those both sides. you mentioned native being involved in always well in african conflict in syria as well indirectly. but it has always denied that its purpose is that sort of new times, purpose is to be aggressive towards russia. how do you take this refusal to dismantle, later, after the cold war?

as a case of, i don't know institutional inertia and vested interest when bureaucrats and weapons manufacturers wanting to keep that pay checks or their profits coming on. do you think it was in fact strategic at that point, that is native continuing to sort of serving the exact purpose that it was created for? i'll be in the plaza with plausible deniability. well 1st thing is, so the, the rule of causal deniability is, is easily overrated. because you can point to position papers, you know, by the rand corporation, which took about a long war in, in the middle east, where the united states would use the sunni shia conflict. and we can see that the evidence came out in the was in libya, was in syria. and we also can see it's in the use of those who

profess an international is a g in the ukraine. these unholy alliances are there to see the position of the things that crop up in the press have prop well, as far as the cold war is concerned, i think that was a moment lost in history, where the security architecture in europe could have been changed and i think it was out of self interest that nato was natal needed to be maintained because of the military industry, which president eisenhower famously referred to as the military industrial complex out of self interest. it needed to perpetuate itself. and part of the idea of the stock trade, which in most of that time was to ensure that with the vacuum caused by the fall of the soviet union, that another power, another economical, military competitor will not be able to rise. well, this is why we have the education against russia and china today,

but i would just say, look, that's ultimately speaking. you cannot understand the conflict with russia. if you do not understand that there is a project to subjugate russia. god, who is control in russia, where you turn that person and democrats, or, and also tracks they need to control the resource, a russia, mr. mc in there. one thing that i cannot grasp, that is how such an idea. and you wrote extensively the some in the west, one to see russia simply as a geographic entity, not as a sovereign state, but this is your graphical entity which is solely dedicated to the service of energy needs of the west. and this is actually not a new idea, a couple of policy makers, american policy makers, on the record stating that as the national interest or national goal. but one thing

i can grasp is how such an idea could come into that mind. because, i mean, you don't need to have a very deep knowledge of history on this than a country. the size of russia, the sort of the natural, national and cultural character of russia will never succumb to something like that . why do you think this people believe in, you know, in the possibility of something like this? well, that's the 22 things. one was mentioned, there is the aspect of american exceptionalism, which in its most positive form, sees america has been this dynamic, this creative forces, science and culture. science it, well, there's that only aspect which puts america above the rest of the world. well then that's why, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world should cease to exist to serve that great american vision. if you follow that ideology suit. unfortunately it is,

it's an obligation of the lights, the lights value, you know, and capsulated by emmanuel can to spoken these, you know, is categorical imperative that we deal with other people as humans. and you deal with people according to an ethical principle, which is consistent and universal. i will be applicable to you. but unfortunately, this is the reality. also, you have mentioned the neoconservative movements. the people who is involved in that ideology do not know what a backward step is. they will go on and on. they have already led american to successive disastrous. unfortunately, this is what the, this is, you know, the, the way where people do not see the reality coming through. unfortunately, they are deleted, lee will persist. i was going to say something here,

i think is a really terrible development in terms of europe not pushing back. because if you go back to readers like all it really branches, atlanta and atlantis and believed in a united europe. i mean, he still had a policy which is something that could be continued to this day along with the mentality of which is the last. but unfortunately we see that european this up here . what fossils. this is not the case. a 198 is when the 1st pipeline, you know, from side to western europe. we've been built when americans started imposing sanctions on the soviet union that was pushed back by european union. you know, it said this is against free trade. and that was pushed back by market fracture, just as it was unfair nations like this way. so this on react to see this on real

policies. unfortunately, given back by this i with conduct. so for you here, leaders in action against their own interests. we only have 2 minutes left and i want to go back to that theme of buying games as well as the particular relationship between russia and the great britain. because we often talking about the russian rivalry. but i think the relationship between russian and british intelligence services are very, very interesting. and not many people know that let me put his 1st visit as a, as russian had a state was to britain. specifically to try to normalize historically very 10 years, a relationship between our countries and the relationship is sure to become very even more 10 years, given that the british security and military officers are very, very active in training, a ukrainian and military personnel. they,

what do you think is at the bottom of this seemingly imperishable and the 10? well, i mean, i read a few years ago about britain and russia and what i, what i felt was fruitless rivalry. you know, britain had, is essentially the 2nd stage within nature. this goes back to its creation. so if you look at nato, it's something that dominated by the united states. well, the imperial recent, which obviously fly in the past on it's towards to america. the 2nd world war has unfortunately, a conference in play in the 2nd fiddle. what you see ukraine today, that's what happened yesterday is when it came to training these se behind for nato, which actually moved into something a bit more sinister. so it is a big shame because trade is something that the focus should be on. not an

espionage games, not an economic warfare. well, you know, the sort of political, a confrontation come with and here this confrontation continues. and if i'm asking very quickly it's, it's no secret that the ukrainian side now relies very heavily on western intelligence and satellite capability. some russian experts suggest that it's far more detrimental to the russian forces than the western supplied weapons. doesn't that make western countries? no, no, no participants in that one, do you think people in britain or in the united states realize that money aren't going directly to funding this war and fighting against the russians? when i think that given the fact that there is an energy crisis caused by the, the sanctions imposed on russia blue back. i think people are getting wind of this

and the ukraine, $0.40 in it. it is a proxy. it is approx. whoa. again, this is where the yes, the west needs to the western public needs to be educated about that. but it's also where we could see that there was, well falls from the russian perspective in the way they have conducted this war. if they had to embark on a shock and all war and stuff, obviously a wanted to not have a situation with fellow as innocent as well. well, man at all mass in a sort of what you would say, collateral damage if he but he's opted for this go slow police action. and i was only given the wes the opportunity to widen the conflict. and that, so i, you know, i, again, i would stress the idea about war. it was not something is not something i would

entertain both from the russian side. on the west side. this is an unnecessary war . they should have implemented the means to court. they should have a quarter the rights to the russian speaking minorities that ukraine. we would have peace with ukraine, a neutral states focusing on developing its potential. i think one of the richest nations on that. well, that would have been possible if again, a gas lighting, as a phenomenon geopolitics wasn't so popular because none of that was discussed in its proper time, openly on western media. but at least we are thankful that we can have this conversation here. i t on mr. mike, and i'm really appreciative of your time today with thank you. it was a pleasure and thank you for watching hope to center again. was a part or

mm hm. mm 01950 . the usaa was returning to peaceful life, but the newspapers didn't report ongoing massacres and the ukrainian ssr, according to intelligence ukrainian nationalists and the ukrainian insurgent army, led by romans forgive each perpetrated these atrocities for human shortly before. but that was what i should be self both knew why it would be wise to review. i pushed please. of course we'll do immune novel through the flat of it was the head of the n k v d sabotage. department of the time he was tasked with stopping the atrocities in ukraine for a good reason. general suit of florida was very familiar with the situation he had

experienced fighting the nationalists before the war. get the movie neo natal named lovelyn chicken garcia new. it's inevitable. so didn't know creamy but it was full access control, give me the task, was tremendously difficult, but suit up lanta was determined to completed. we had personal accounts to settle with the ukrainian nationalists. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy, even foundation, let it be an arms race, his on offense, very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk with

ah, then dissolve opec plus report to late mo, further oil production codes that says russia says it won't take both of those countries of the youth price cap in this week, top stories, the commission chief, the lead supposed claiming 100000 ukranian officers have been killed in the war. a figure around 10 times higher than that released by ukrainian officials in august. hundreds, gather to protest against the release of the convicted of the south african apartheid icon is also of those processes have to say about the release andrew, i'm coming here to them and.