ah, nico finances, he battled the speed. okay, so mine is too bad. i'm speaking with weaver van in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machine estate aunt, rush up to date and split r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with dignity even cliff hotel with ah, ah, ah,

hello and welcome to cross stock were all things we considered. i'm peter labelle, by joining washington's ukraine proxy war against russia. europe is made, an irreversible choice. it is consigned itself to being a minor regional power in a multi polar world cutting itself up from russia. europe has all but assured it will be overly dependent on the united states. that dependency will be costly. ah cross, how can europe's choice? i'm joined by my guess. my senior post goes in london. he is professor of international relations at the university of east london as well as editor of the journal of balkan and near eastern studies in north florida. we have tom lawanda. he is publisher of gold, goats and guns, blog and newsletter, and in prague we have brad blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t n, a freelance reporter she was as well as an rti contributor or

a gentleman across the girls. and in fact, that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciated, tom, let me go to you 1st in north florida. did i overstate my introduction that europe is consigning itself to be a regional minor regional power in a multi polar world. it's getting pretty bleak for the european future. i would say your thoughts, tom? yeah, i would agree with you on that peter. the, the issue for europe is that it's very clear that the, that russia is done with them and that's a bigger issue. and then knowing that this, this oil price cap is gone into place. the, the funny part now is that, you know, the headlines are all being written that russia is going to have to cut production . and this is going to hurt their money. they're, they're the bottom line above all by, and it's always framed in terms of how bad it is for russia. but nobody actually talks about whether food has actually game plan for this, whether it has now a strategic move. cuz as far as i'm concerned, after the, the recent drawn strikes inside russia, we're looking at the de facto start for

a major or kinetic war. and if i'm prudent, i'm not selling oil under any circumstances to my enemies. okay, let's see, let's say in london, basically the same question here because i like how, what, what tom said in the beginning of his answers that, you know, the, the, the russians have had it with the europeans. ok. but obviously in western media, it's always framed in a very the opposite way here. really? tom's absolutely. right. i mean, they need reliable partners. europe has shown itself to be unreliable, particularly in energy. we had former chance. merkel come out and basically say, yeah, the min scope processes were just deploy, they're showing their hand, they're showing their, i'm sorry, they're really gross this on it's dishonesty. the russians are done with them. ok, now the euro pass to pay the price. go ahead in london. yes, thank. i don't disagree with what i heard, especially with those who what, what tom said, what i would like just give,

thank you for talking. all that in the discussion with in the triangle between us, europe and russia, has really ever been viewed open, independent political actor in global affairs. i doubt it was always dependent on the united states title in clearing. even the production of the year was pretty much a project encouraged by the united states. so which of course call relationship between 0 and the united states. very strong ally in the sense of the world. and then so what that invest in this is always been strong. back on all united states, those exactly united states was always the bill was 6. hello russia from that project. i mentioned the 2nd since the end of the, of the 2nd world war. that was the united states project with russia,

from european fast. so you, that this is, my knowledge is correct. i think that russia despise all the prize. stop by. we can start dorothy was in russia. she'd never stop talking to europe. never. that's my, that's my, my, my understanding of is jason, in particular now in the mean a period in which globalization since, as we know it seems to be at the n or after 9 we need to fax re signer, you know, in this war you're getting way ahead of me, it's on my checklist of questions, right? you're going to get great minds think alike. ok. brad basically the same question, but you know, brad, because he says that you know, russian needs to keep talking to europe. but i mean, if europe wants to control the conversation, what is the point of having a conversation? ok, i mean, it has to be

a 2 way street. it's not that way. right now. i don't think it's going to be that way for a very, very long time. go ahead, brad. you know, i can see that that's true because, you know, i think that there is it, there is this kind of been a desire from people within europe to be politically economists, even though their entire political system do the you, it's been the holden to the united states, but at the same time, the politicians here lack the courage to stand up to washington even though they know that washington is undermining their interests. but ironically, the same time these politicians, these pro, you pro western politicians that are putting your down this path. they don't really have any leverage here. i mean, there's kind of this running joke now in europe that we're going to be, you know, like a summer holiday destination for the chinese in the americans. because of the industry here is going to be completely got it. and without cheap russian energy industry in central europe in germany is completely screwed. i mean, you know, when,

when you look at central banks all over the world use energy, you use energy usage as the primary predictor of economic growth. and we've seen that that, that the demand for energy has gone down. and the same time you politician to saying this is a positive thing that we're, you know, building up our gas supplies, in case russia hall, the flow of energy to euro. but that's a bad thing. that means that economic growth here is going to go down. that means we're going to be in a recession for years, if not decades, potentially without, you know, cheap brush energy that we can use for industry here. and i don't see that these politicians have any leverage, and i think that this is going to usher in just the industrialization of europe as a result. well, again, you have great minds think alike. that was gonna be my question for tom, is this, is this a, an intentional plan to de, industrialized europe on the part of the americans? tom, i don't think it's the americans solely. that's doing this. this is the,

this is the great heresy. on my part, i'm sorry, as an american, i see the old colonial hand of europe desperately trying to hold sway over the way they run. they use us as the tip of the sphere. i really think that this whole thing is ideologically driven by the europeans. they're the ones out there screaming about european values and democracy. we have to save democracy by destroying it and all the rest of that. if you look at people like bonder land, michelle and burrell and the rest of them. they're all idealogues for this thing. and the americans are simply, they're cynical, ground troops and, and that's the way i see this and i, and it's almost impossible to get me off of this point. despite that, it's very important that we stop just framing all of this is all work is evil. americans pushing it well, i mean, what it's for us. absolutely. this is important in europe is absolutely their, their last step with the european. i mean yes,

they want this war as much as everybody else. ok. who blew up the pipelines then sealants. okay. i mean, obviously the us benefited greatly from that at the cost for germans and the cost of europeans would go to go to my guess. i didn't hang on armand's, we're tom. even the germans went along with him, but it's a german group. he wants to do it, let me go get my guest in london and see what do you think about that because it gave the americans enormous leverage. but having those, having those pipelines blow up, go ahead in london to actually move very and we know this world to the united states because it increases on your blog, complete and germany from, from, from russia and oil and gas as well. by the same time, the united states american protection sell from in jason and subsidizes its, you call, making its companies more competitive. witness day 430000000000 faces reduction. i

mean, united states is very much a consensus actually always was no. the scene gauge european energy policy from, from russ circle every european by expensive l n g, which is not even enough. that's why that's why a russian government continue continue to be although they kept it now. they want to cut the price out. but even this is not, not going to be much missed and russia has many alternatives that but my nice point, i think you should be taking a board. why? because it depends on what kinds of solution we want on here for that. what do you want an american solution? what do you want a solution which is marked by the found by europeans and russians, and chinese, you want a european, you raise your solution or in america so. so that's the key question. right?

that's a very interesting question. we'd like to feel that go ahead. yeah, i mean, you know, i think that we, you know, this question of whether or not the europeans with americans or whoever is running the shell as for sure. the americans, i mean, you know, that's definitely true that the europeans, i mean that america is definitely a product of the colonialists, the peer listed, the ologies that emerge in europe, better indigenous this company here. but the, but the united spaces is the crystallization about. i mean, like the nazis said that the greatest moment and in the history of white powers, the creation of the united states of america. everything that is wicked about the west is, is, is ramping in washington. and the solution that they're putting forward is, is everything that's. ready even dastardly about the west, that's the solution they're putting forward. it's domination in joe biden, gives a speech a t s m c,

the new headquarters as being states and says that we're putting out american products. this is not just a signal to the chinese, you know, that there is a trade war against china. this is also talking about south korea that's talking about japan. this is talking about europe, especially, you know, that the industrialization of europe will benefit america with, as the other guests mentioned the, the inflation act. yeah. you know, the united states is setting themselves up to benefit greatly from the industrialization, europe and the debt. that's going to come on this continent here, even though supposedly we're lock step, supposedly we are equal partners with the americans. but that's not true. well, i mean, i saw one sided and trying on guy usa gone guys, i have to, i have to go to a break gentlemen. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on europe. joy stay with are the the,

is your media a reflection of reality the in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation or community? are you going the right way? or are you being that some with what is true? was his faith in the world corrupted. you need to descend. ah, so join us in the depths will remain in the shallows. ah welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter lavelle to

remind you we're discussing europe's choice with his go back to common north florida. it's already been brought up in this program. i think it's really worth talking about more is a we experiencing the end of globalization as we've understood it for the last half century. because it seems to me that with this gambit that the u. s. is a playing visa v. russia and using the proxy war and kit in ukraine, is that the us wants to go on its own controlled globalization, which europe would be part of, and they'll be other globalization. so china we can talk about as well. it seems to me that there is a parting of the waters as it were. go ahead. tom and north florida. i agree with all that. i also think, oh, most of it i what i really think is going on here, don't get me wrong. i'm not trying to absolve the americans for their part in what's happening out here. it's clear that that's what's going on. i just don't

want anybody to, to think that europe didn't make a conscious choice here. that these, that the perceived weakness of european leaders is as being subordinate or vassal to the eyes. it's, it's just nonsense. it doesn't, it's not real. so when you look at what's happening, but i think is happening is very clearly that there are forces within the united states or that are working to try and save what's left of what's been hollowed out over here. while others are still trying to sell it out, i think the by the ministration is trying to sell it out. i think we're, we've seen a push by the federal reserve in the near sand, new york money center banks in order to stop that process. really somewhat and we see with the end of globalization, it was the clear end of the dollar reserve standard on the horizon. there is a breaking of the system and europe is going to be left in the dust and it's in geo politics. arono allies are only interest, and as far as i'm concerned, you install a fungus, like biden, for the purposes of doing,

of tax normalization with europe. so you're ruinous tax policy, energy policy. that's insta. lockstep with cop 27 and all that stuff. like at the end of the day, i don't see the biden administration is working for the united states. and i think this is part of the, the real disconnect here. and that's the issue for me and the, and i see all of these, these, these things happening. i don't disagree with that, but the yes, on the big trend, i just don't think that the americans are the sole evil empire here. i think that's a very, that's a very dangerous narrative and letting the europeans off the hook for their complicity in this because they want to do this. the destruction, the middle class in europe is not a bug. it's not a bug created by the americans. it's a feature of what, what europe wants to do to transform itself into the next version of the ussr, cuz that's what the e was becoming. well, i mean, democratic politburo ed, i know, but fascinating. i absolutely agree with that here. but one thing if i go back to our guests in london, i mean there's one commonality here and we know who, who is

a top of the totem pole. we can all discuss that and killer all blue in the face. but they do have one thing in common is ideology. they're all ideologically possessed. is neal liberal ideology? that is one thing that they all have in common here. and it's disastrous for middle class is all across the western world. go ahead in london. ok. yes. a look i, i can say i disagree with who are the head, but he said it's important that we get our priorities right. who is the dominant power today in the global system in the west european union or the united states? european union does not even qualify for the call. the state is not, doesn't have federal sector, has some some primitive. busy federal structures, but it doesn't have a few, some unity, there is no even a union of the banking sector after the massive or biking crisis. we have the leaders in crisis. so you'll be in unit can be very well defined us an international organization and should be more tight on the,

on the nation. so we don't, we don't deal here with unified actor. that should be taken away. that's so crucial . it is so so crucial to understand that nathan view, institutionalized, the dependency of europe for the united states, the boys hear their voice. the europeans have is pretty much a boys of the elite of european business interest with the lives of united states business centers. and also they can work on security security medicines. so do not be surprised if i tell you that so many splits that are within the european parliament, european commission. and so, and there is no one wants. that's why i keep, say, keep talking to the europeans. if you don't want to play the u. s. game of excluding russia from european offense, russia should not be excluding from well, ok, but let's see, let's say, you know, who is excluding home here in europe. it is excluding russia. ok,

not the other way around. ok. i and, and, and it came to a finer point here. as you've already said, this program rush, it energy is still going to europe. ok. they didn't cut it off. it's a europeans that are cutting off russian energy. let me go to brian. he may go to brad in prague here. you know, one of the things that we're hearing is that the, the, the americans want the europeans to go along with their policies against china. that's not going to go down very well in europe. brad. yeah, actually i just wrote a piece about this and in fact, you know, you bind people, i just, the bro even have the courage to say that european countries don't want to have to choose between beijing and washington. and that's because it's just in their plain self interest. i mean, but it being the china has a lot to offer the european union trying to consumer market within the next decade will be bigger than the united states. and they are hungry for european goods. i

mean, as long as those guys are cheap and not, you know, completely screwed on price because irrational energy is not accessible to the market of course. but, you know, there's, there's a lot of fruitful cooperation there. and i think there's a lot of nato allies not locked up on this. i think i would like to come in with the other guess. i think we also definitely have to be very crystal clear that europe is budding out russia, but that is to be had to be american. i mean, they have tens of thousands of troops here. they spy on european politics, and these are demonstrated will fax me notice you, can you walk out your door here in europe and you see it, they are colonizing europe. europe is a vassal state. the united states, the you, it's not a country. this is disjointed. countries that are being forced against each other. and just as you know, the globalization has created a natural relationship between russia and the you integrating both of these

economies. i think that there is a natural relationship between the russian people and people in europe. here, there is a natural political relationship just as globalization has been fruitful for both sides in russian energy creating europe's industrial base. i believe that the russian people are inextricably connected to people here in europe, not least because they are european of course, you know, i think that we have to be clear that it's washington doing this. and i think that russia should continue to engage in europe because russia needs to be a political actor in europe. and that's also because the united it part of its grand strategy is the forces to compete with china by pushing it out of europe, forcing it to be an asian power enforcing china in russia to compete against each other. perhaps, you know, breaking their strategic cooperation, which would be detrimental to the world. the strategic cooperation between russian, china is so important in keeping this multi pearl polar world, emerging multiple world order together,

one that is against american hedge money. and that is so important. okay tom, yeah, i saw you nodding your head there. you are in agreement. go ahead tom. i agree that i agree that russia and china need to be, than they need the same walks up with one another and, and in the way that nathan bradshaw said, tells me that, that, that's not going to happen. what they just like moved to strategic palmer's across to, to each other's air basis. for i say nothing. the u. s. is doing is stopping right . it, they're trying desperately to drive a wedge. that's what policy going to taiwan was of as what the chips act was. about and i, i get that, but understand that you listen, sitting in prague, you cannot see what's happening here in the united states, which is our institutions are being destroyed from within, from foreign powers. and it's very obvious, none of these people work for the united states. they are all trying to normalize our or even make worse, our ability to handle capital and make it handle capital worse than they already handle it in europe. ok, because capital flows were capital was treated best. and right now it's still

treated best. buy the united states. 21 percent corporate tax rate versus a 20 percent 26 percent. france they want but buying wants to raise it to $28.00. now, why would he want to do that if he's actually acting in the american or american interest? he's not. ok, none of this is about keeping the right nice states alive. this is about this, this is, am i literally breaking up the united states and too many people are actually going to tear this and this is go and this is a bad idea. not that i'm a huge fan of the united states in any way, manner, shape or form. but all of these things are being driven, as peter mentioned, as by ideologically possessed, people who believe that we can move to a different type of system. ok, and it's not necessarily just the americans driving this. there are it is that it is at the end of the day whether we are going to have public formation of happ, public capital formation or private capital formation. and there are forces within the u. s. that still believe in private capital formation and the people at the top of our political system are aligned with europe that we need to have public capital

formation. the end of sent the, at the end of commercial banking, the end of all of that stuff. and this is all the sub text of what's going on with the, with the, the situation in ukraine and how it's being handled. but the don't kid yourself in any way, manner, shape or form. this is about the destruction of the united states. and everybody thinks that will be a great thing. i got news for you at the united states falls apart in the worst way imaginable. no one is going to be happy about the results. nobody. well, the russians of the europeans, not anyway. well. ok because of that you think the do you think the end of the ussr was ugly? you just wait to see what happens. dad says, well if it goes down it's going to take a good part of the world with it. there's no doubt about that. ok, is he lives in london? can the european union survive? because you know what, you know, people talk about getting through this winter. okay. they're going to get through this winter. it will be uncomfortable, but they will. but what about the next 5 winters? that's where the real challenges go ahead in london. either i can predict the future. it will be tough for everybody. ok, and then you have to realize,

i think the people a few of understand what is wrong. so a rational asian should go back to normal as it were. i thought it was, it was in the interests of germany, go up to 5. i think it was an invoice of united states. the pipeline is the northern steam and so on. there were, these are here in german front, and this is what we do not want to stop the european snow, the lease, you know very well. well, when they speak, they speak with american language. that's my point is not political. you know, if you don't have any dependent on it, of course, shape or sex and he's up to russia at liebherr, i 3 months to pay, you know, from a great, i mean, 1997 in state wrote a book, the parents of that book, the guns as part of the purpose of that book was how to avoid the americans having to face the situation in which europe in moscow and china. we'll have

a united grayson and we have run out of time gentlemen, but i think that's why we have the answer. that's why ukraine happened in the 1st place due to address, but we just heard in london, that's all the time we have gentlemen. many thanks, i guess in london, prague and in north florida. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember, cross talk with you when we last young jin this to a place in to the with a,

with a condition to somebody in my did you children? no, i'm going to push it up with a no idea to have a mind with the course of his days, which type of like is it

a voicemail? but i am, i say yes. one way the suggestion is up with a,

with with both both the models you need to do, you both got a deal with a, a form already. a lot of them bought a they need a with us, the personal number, give you

a, a a way for a number of years. the west is shamelessly siphoned and exploited. ukraine's resources encouraged genocide and terror in the dom boss and actually turned this country into a colony. russia's president vladimir putin, slums, western. busy powers for creating hot spots and fitting ukraine across the world. also added the program today, a high level prisoner slop russian business men. victor boot returns home after more than a decade and us custody and exchange for american basketball player brittany reiner on serbia. consider sending a 1000 troops into kosovo for hundreds of police.