[000:00:00;00] ah, [000:00:00;00] ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point obviously is to great trust, rather than fear a very job with artificial intelligence,

real summoning with a robot most protective own existence with a with hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, by joining washington's ukraine proxy war against russia. europe has made an irreversible choice. it is consigned itself to being a minor regional power in a multi polar world. cutting itself up from russia. europe has all but assured it

will be overly dependent on the united states. that dependency will be costly. ah, cross, how can europe's choice? i'm joined by my guess. my senior post goes in london. he is professor of international relations at the university of east london as well as editor of the earl of balkan, and near eastern studies in north florida. we have tom one go. he's publisher of gold, goats and guns, blog, and newsletter, and in prague we have brad blankenship. he's a com this it c g p n, a freelance reporter she was as well as an r t contributor or a gentleman cross i girls in effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated, tom, let me go to you 1st in north florida. did i overstate my introduction that europe is consigning itself to be a regional minor regional power in a multi polar world. it's getting pretty bleak for the european future. i would say your thoughts, tom? yeah, i would agree with you on that peter. the,

the issue for europe is that it's very clear that the, that russia is done with them and that's a bigger issue. and then knowing that this, this oil price has gone into place. the, the funny part now is that, you know, the headlines are all being written that russia is going to have to cut production . and this is going to hurt their money. they're, they're the bottom line, the bubble bar, and it's always framed in terms of how bad it is for russia. but nobody actually talks about whether food has actually game plan for this, whether it has now a strategic move. cuz as far as i'm concerned, after the, the recent drawn strikes inside russia, we're looking at the de facto start for a major kinetic war. and if i'm prudent, i'm not selling oil under any circumstances to my enemies. okay, let's see, let's say in london, basically the same question here because i like how, what, what tom said in the beginning of his answers that, you know, the, the, the russians have had it with the europeans. ok. obviously in western media, it's always framed in a very the opposite way here. really?

tom's absolutely. right. i mean, they need reliable partners. europe has shown itself to be unreliable, particularly in energy. we had former chance. merkel come out and basically say, yeah, the min scope processes were just deploy, they're showing their hand, they're showing their, i'm sorry, they're really gross dishonest. dishonesty the russians are done with them. ok, now the euro pass to pay the price. go ahead in london. yes, thank. i don't disagree with what i heard, especially with those who are what tom said, what i would like just to give the thank you for talking. all that in the discussion with in the triangle between us, europe and russia, has really ever been you open independent political actor in global affairs. i doubt it was always dependent on the united states. title,

in even the production of the hero was pretty much a project encouraged by the united states. so this court call relationship between 0 and the united states. very strong ally in the sense of the world and been so what are the invest in this is always been installed, but on all the united states, those exactly united states was always the bill was 6. hello russia? from that project. i mentioned the 2nd since the end of the, of the 2nd world war that was the united states project with russia, from european past. so he got this back. it's my knowledge is correct. i think that russia despise all the prize stop by. we can start, dorothy was in russia, she never stopped talking to europe. never, that's my, that's my, my,

my understanding of jason, in particular now in the mean a period in which globalization, since, as we know, it seems to be at the n, or after 9. we need to fax, re signer, you know, in this war you're getting way ahead of me. it's on my checklist of questions, right? you're going to get great minds think alike. ok. brad, basically the same question, but you know, brad, because he says that you know, russian needs to keep talking to europe. but i mean, if europe wants to control the conversation, what is the point of having a conversation? ok. i mean, it has to be a 2 way street. it's not that way. right now. i don't think it's going to be that way for a very, very long time. go ahead, brad. you know, i can see that that's true because, you know, i think that there is it, there is this kind of been a desire from people within europe to be politically economists, even though their entire political system do the you, it's been beholden to,

the united states but at the same time, the politicians here lack the courage to stand up to washington, even though they know that washington is undermining their interests. but ironically, the same time, these politicians, these pro, you pro western politicians that are putting your down this path. they don't really have any leverage here. i mean, there's kind of this running joke now in europe that we're going to be, you know, like a summer holiday destination for the chinese in the americans because of the industry here is going to be completely got it. and without cheap russian energy industry in central europe in germany is completely screwed. i mean, you know, when, when you look at central banks all over the world use energy, you use energy usage as the primary predictor of economic growth. and we've seen that that, that the demand for energy is gone down. and the same time you politicians are saying, this is a positive thing that we're, you know, building up our gas supplies, in case russia hall, the flow of energy to euro. but that's

a bad thing. that means that economic growth here is going to go down. that means we're going to be in a recession for years, if not decades, potentially without, you know, cheap brush energy that we can use for industry here. and i don't see that these politicians have any leverage, and i think that this is going to usher in just the industrialization of europe as a result. well, again, you have great minds think alike that was going to be my question for tom, is this, is this a, an intentional plan to de industrialized europe on the part of the americans? tom, i don't think it's the americans solely. that's doing this. this is the, this is the great heresy. on my part, i'm sorry, as an american, i see the old colonial hand of europe desperately trying to hold sway over the way they run. they use us as the tip of the spear i, i really think that this whole thing is ideologically driven. i, the europeans, they're the ones out there screaming about european values and democracy. we have to save democracy, but destroying it. and all the rest of the day,

if you look at people like vandalay and michelle and barrel, and the rest of them, they're all ideologues for this thing in the americans are simply their cynical ground troops. and i, and that's the way i see this. and i and it's almost impossible to get me off of this point despite that, it's very important that we stop just framing all of this is oh, look at the evil americans pushing it with. i mean because i feel like it's for it's for caitlin rivers. absolutely. i tell you this is important in europe is absolutely. um they're, they're lock step with the european with this they want this war as much as everybody else. okay. when, who blew up the pipelines, then the sealants. okay. i mean, obviously the us benefited greatly from that at the kasha germans in the cost of europeans would a lot. and let me, let me go to our get, let me go to my guess line is in the hang on. hang sermons were tom company than the germans went along with it because the german grandmother wants to do

a when they go to my guest in london. basil is what do you think about that? because it gave the americans enormous leverage by having those having those pipelines blow up, go ahead in london to actually move very a winner of this world to the united states. because if you increase it on your blog, completely germany from, from, from russia and oil and gas as well. by the same time, the united states, american protection sell from innovation and subsidizes, it's called making its companies more competitive. witness day 430000000000. the face and reduction, i mean, united states is very much a consensus actually always was to be seen gauge european energy policy from from rash circle. every european bio expensive l n d, which is not even enough. so that's why, that's why a russian government continues just continue to be fun. although they kept it now,

they want to cover that with the price. but even this is not, not going to be one of the guys missed later on. and russia is many on that, but my initial point, i think he should be taken on board. why? because it depends on what kind of solution we want on here for that. what do you want an american solution? what do you want a solution which is marked by the found by europeans and russians and chinese, you want a european radio solution or in america so. so that's the key question. right? that's a very interesting question. we'd like to feel that go ahead. yeah, i mean, you know, i think that we, you know, the question of whether not the europeans or the americans or whoever is running to shell it's, it's for sure the americans, i mean, you know, that's definitely true that the europeans, i mean that america is definitely

a product of the colonial listening peer listen to all of these that immersion europe better indigenous this company here. but the but the united spaces is the crystallization of bad. i mean, like the nazis said that the greatest moment and in the history of white powers, the creation of the united states of america. everything that is wicked about the west is, is, is ramping in washington. and the solution that they're putting forward is, is everything that's evil and dastardly about the west. that's the solution that putting forward it's domination in joe biden, gives a speech a t s m. c. the new headquarters as being an added states and says that we're putting out american products. this is not just a signal to the chinese, you know, that there is a trade war against china. this is also talking about south korea that's talking about japan. this is talking about europe, especially, you know, the di, industrialization of europe will benefit america with, as the other gets mentioned, the, the inflation act. yeah. you know, the united states is setting themselves up to benefit greatly from the

industrialization, europe and the debt. that's going to come on this continent here, even though supposedly we're lock step, supposedly we are equal partners with the americans. but that's not true. well, i mean, i saw one sided and trying on guy usa gone guys, i have to, i have to go to a break gentlemen. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on europe. joy, stay with our the the ah nice hunter,

russian state will never see. i started as i'm phoning the most landscape div asking him then that can cause how sensitive it within the sissy. probably speedo keys on i used to bargain speaking when else. question about this, even though we will van in the european union the kremlin media machine, the state on russia today and split r t spoof neck, even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube kitchen. patricia diggity, even cliff with cash. welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle to

remind you we're discussing europe's choice with hey, let's go back to common north florida. it's already been brought up in this program . i think it's really worth talking about more is a we experiencing the end of globalization as we've understood it for the last half century. because it seems to me that with this gambit that the u. s. is a playing visa v. russia and using the proxy war and kit in ukraine, is that the u. s. wants to go on its own controlled globalization, which europe would be part of, and they'll be other globalization. so china we can talk about as well. it seems to me that there is a parting of the waters as it were. go ahead. tom and north florida. i agree with all that. i also think, oh, most of it i, when i read, think is going on here, don't get me wrong. i'm not trying to absolve the americans for their part in what's happening out here. it's clear that that's what's going on. i just don't want anybody to, to think that europe didn't make

a conscious choice here. that these, that the perceived weakness of european leaders is as being subordinate or vassals to the eyes. it's, it is just nonsense. it doesn't, it's not real. so when you look at what's happening, but i think is happening is very clearly that there are forces within the united states or that are working to try and save what's left of what's been hollowed out over here. while others are still trying to sell it out, i think the by the administration is trying to sell it out. i think we're, we've seen a push by the federal reserve in the new york and new york money center banks in order to stop that process. really somewhat and we see with the end of globalization, it was the clear end of the dollar reserve standard on the horizon. there is a breaking of the system and europe is going to be left in the dust and it's in geo politics. there are no allies, there are only interest. and as far as i'm concerned, you install a fungus, like biden, for the purposes of doing, of tax normalization with europe. so,

you're ruinous tax policy, energy policy. that's insta. lockstep with cop 27 and all that stuff. like at the end of the day, i don't see the biden administration is working for the united states. and i think this is part of the, the, the real disconnect here. and that's the issue for me. any, and i see all of these, these, these things happening. i don't disagree that, but the yes. on the big trend, just don't think that the americans are the sole evil empire here. i think that's a very, that's a very dangerous narrative and letting the europeans off the hook for their complicity in this because they want to do this. the destruction, the middle class in europe is not a bug. it's not a bug created by the americans. it's a feature of what, what europe wants to do to transform itself into the next version of the ussr, because that's what the e was becoming. well, i mean, democratic politburo lead, i know, but fascinating. i absolutely agree with that. but one thing if i go back to our guests in london, i mean there's one commonality here and we know who, who is a top of the totem pole. we can all discuss that until we're all blue in the face.

but they do have one thing in common is ideology. they're all ideologically possessed. is neil liberal ideology. that is one thing that they all have in common here. and it's disastrous for middle class is all across the western world. go ahead in london. ok. yes. a look i, i can say i disagree with who are the head, but he said it's important that we get our priority right. who raised the dominant howard today in the global system in the west european union or the united states? european union does not even qualify to be called the state is not, doesn't have federal sector, has some some primitive. busy federal structures, but it doesn't have a few, some unity, there is no even a union of the banking sector after the massive or biking crisis. we have the leaders in crisis. so you'll be in unit can be very well defined, us an international organization and should be more tight on the,

on the united nations are. so we don't, we don't deal here with unified actor. that should be taken away. that's so crucial . it is so so crucial to understand that nathan view, institutionalized, the dependency of europe for the united states, the boys hear their voice. the peons have is pretty much if boys of the elite of european business interest with the lives of united states business interests and also they can work on security security medicines. so do not be surprised if i tell you that so many splits that are within the european parliament, european commission. and so, and there is no one point. that's why keep say, keep talking to the europeans. if you don't want to play the u. s. game of excluding russia from european offense. russia should not be excluding from, well, ok, but let's see, let's say, you know, who is excluding home here in europe. it is excluding russia. ok. not the other way

around. ok. i and, and, and it came to a finer point here. as you've already said, this program, russian energy is still going to europe. ok. they didn't cut it off. it's a europeans that are cutting off russian energy. let me go to brian. you may go to brad in prague here. you know, one of the things that we're hearing is that the, the, the americans want the europeans to go along with their policies against china. that's not going to go down very well in europe. brad. yeah, actually i just wrote a piece about this and in fact, you know, you bind people, i just, the bro even have the courage to say that european countries don't want to have to choose between beijing and washington. and that's because it's just in their plain self interest. i mean, but it being the china has a lot to offer the european union trying to consumer market within the next decade will be bigger than the united states. and they are hungry for european goods. i mean, as long as those guys are cheap and not, you know,

completely screwed on price because irrational energy is not accessible to the market of course. but, you know, there's, there's a lot of fruitful cooperation there. and i think there's a lot of nato allies not locked up on this. i think i would like to come in with the other guess. i think we also definitely have to be very crystal clear that europe is budding out russia, but that is to be had to be american. i mean, they have tens of thousands of troops here. they spy on european politics, and these are demonstrated will fax me notice you, can you walk out your door here in europe and you see it, they are colonizing europe. call europe is a vassal state. the united states be you, it's not a country. this is disjointed. countries that are being forced against each other. and just as you know, the globalization has created a natural relationship between russia and the you integrating both of these economies. i think that there is a natural relationship between the russian people and people in europe. here,

there is a natural political relationship just as globalization has been fruitful for both sides in russian energy creating europe's industrial base. i believe that the russian people are inextricably connected to people here in europe, not least because they are european. of course, i think that we have to be clear that it's washington doing this. and i think that russia should continue to engage in europe because russia needs to be a political actor in europe. and that's also because the united it part of its grand strategy is the forces to compete with china by pushing it out of europe, forcing it to be an asian power enforcing china in russia to compete against each other. perhaps, you know, breaking their strategic cooperation, which would be detrimental to the world. the strategic cooperation between russian, china is so important in keeping this multi pearl polar world, emerging multiple world order together. one that is again, america,

hedge money and that is so important. okay, tom, yeah, i saw you nodding your head there you are in agreement. go ahead tom. i agree that i agree that russia and china need to be, than they need the same walks up with one another and, and in no way that anything brightest said. tells me that, that, that's not going to happen. what they just like moved to strategic palmer's across it to, to each other's air basis. for i say nothing. the u. s. is doing is stopping right . it, they're trying desperately to drive a wedge. that's what follows the going to taiwan was of us. what the chips act was about, and i get that, but understand that you list and sitting in prague, you cannot see what's happening here in the united states, which is our institutions are being destroyed from within, from foreign powers. and it's very obvious, none of these people work for the united states. they are all trying to normalize our or even make worse, our ability to handle capital and make it handle capital worse than they already handle it in europe. ok, because capital flows were capital was treated best. and right now it's still

treated best. buy the united states. 21 percent corporate tax rate versus a 20 percent 26 percent. france they want but buying wants to raise it to $28.00. now, why would he want to do that if he's actually acting in the americans, are american interest? he's not. ok, none of this is about keeping the right night states alive. this is about this, this is, am i literally breaking up the united states and to many people are actually going to tear this. and this is go and this is a bad idea. not that i'm a huge fan of the united states in any way, manner, shape or form. but all of these things are being driven, as peter mentioned, as by ideologically possessed, people who believe that we can move to a different type of system. ok, and it's not necessarily just the americans driving this. there are it, is it, it is at the end of the day whether we are going to have public formation of happ, public capital formation or private capital formation. and there are forces within the u. s. that still believe in private capital formation and the people at the top of our political system are aligned with europe that we need to have public capital formation. the end of sent the, at the end of commercial banking, the end of all of that stuff. and this is all the text of what's going on with the,

with the, the situation in ukraine and how it's being handled. but the don't kid yourself in any way, manner, shape or form. this is about the destruction of the united states. and everybody thinks that will be a great thing. i got news for you at the united states falls apart and in the worst way imaginable, no one is going to be happy about the results. nobody. well, the russians are pans 9. ok because of us, you think the do you think the end of the ussr was ugly? you just wait to see what happens. dad says, well if it goes down it's going to take a good part of the world with it. there's no doubt about that. ok, because he lives in london kick in the european union survive because you know what, you know, people talk about getting through this winter. ok. they're going to get through this winter. it will be uncomfortable, but they will. but what about the next 5 winters? that's where the real challenges go ahead in london. peter can predict the future. it will be tough for everybody. again, you have to realize i didn't,

i think the people a few of understand what is wrong. so here russian relations should go back to normal as it was, i thought it was, it was in the face of germany to blow up if i thought, i think he was an english united states, the pipelines and northern students on what these are here in german function and this is what we like, says one stop the european snow, the lease you know very well. well when they speak, they speak with american language. that's my point is not political, you know, heavily dependent, but it does force to shape a stretch and he's up to russia to leave for a few months to pay, you know, from a as great. i mean 9097 bit since you wrote a book. the parents of that book, the guns as part of the purpose of that book was how to avoid the americans having

to face the situation in which europe moscow and china will have a united. grayson and i, we have run out of time gentlemen, but i think that's why we have the answer. that's why ukraine happened in the 1st place due to address what we just heard in london. that's all the time we have gentlemen. many thanks them i guess in london, prague and in north florida. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember, cross talk with home at 41 percent of you have the bell tab and i'm savings to cover a $1000.00 emergency. we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical that in america we do have a well 1st system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it's

a conditional system you have to prove to the government that you truly need help. the simplest way, like explain a basic income, is that it's like social security for the rest of us. a basic income would be a monthly payments that would go to everyone, does a $1000.00 a month, no strings attached. i mean, i don't know, i just won't go crazy. the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve it. and just by virtue of your being here, oh, when i was showing wrong, i just don't know any world. yes, to shave out. disdain becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail.

when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. i'm willing into a no cranium, a sheet ship, a control input, your boss. so she'll be at the mobo. aleki system rarely premium did not seem to vice president of lucy leah with a darker room. there's a lot of the my subway, but just dory on a salad ship elise get us, but we ship them. so just a little bit of them. i need a one,

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