the u. s. president, july, and was engaging in a favorite pastime of american presidents ashy iran for nuclear weapons. that doesn't yet have we also staying with the people room and then the french in united states are working together and hold accountable those responsible for the human rights abuses, to counter ranch support for russia's war and to ensure that the land does not, does not live does not ever acquire nuclear weapons. yeah, well, there was an actual mechanism in place to prevent precisely that a multilateral deal where iran gave bob any nuclear weapons potentially exchange for sanctions relief. but the u. s. withdrew from that agreement, unilateral. so now they're back to candidate on the desk. what's the point of yelling from the sidelines until the threat of nuclear weapons in the middle east, while literally voting in favor of security? their continued existence. all right, i'll take interpreter, rachel moss, and wrapping up this alice broadcast from moscow from all of us here,

the entire news team. thank you so much for spending your time here and sharing with us here in the russian capital. we'll be back with more of your heavy hitting headlines when we return that ah, ah, i'm african redundancy. welcome back to going under ground in the week of called 15, the un conference on life itself by diversity, which was supposed to be in china. the issue of food security is only just been debated here in dubai where i'm speaking to you from. and it's urgency was on the line this week by farmers unions in a britain sending billions of dollars of weapons to ukraine, warning that even the u. k. sleep walking into

a food supply crisis. all this as nature, nations, blame russia for hundreds of millions across the global south going hungry this christmas. who or what is to blame them? is it is the un claims humanities wool with nature leading the un committee on the world food security up until a few weeks ago with chris haggard dawn. he joins me from francis capital. paris, thank you so much, chris, for coming on. i better 1st just start off by asking you won't be willed. food security committee actually is some people might not know. it was set up all the way back in 974. let me clarify was the secretary or 3 and a half years up until the end of october. and the committee d was set up in 74 in a context of a global crisis that was back in the days when there was a massive famine in east pakistan. now bangladesh and the global community built

a multilateral setting, such as the c f s would be away for countries that come together to address the result, crises, it done, its job, helping countries and experts to play their part in addressing changing food security issues. it was reformed in 2009 at the height of another crisis. and so it's a very different institution than it was when it started bringing a expert scientific animal into the process. bringing all 3 of the rome un agencies together in one in one platform and enjoying the un members with the experts all around the u. n. system, the civil society, private sector, the bretton woods institutions like the world bank. and everyone is part of that conversation to address policy convergence within the cfs. i mean, i don't want me to mean christy, chris, but even before the wheat basket of europe,

you grain facing what it is right now. and what we have 828000000 hungry this christmas sir. i'm not blaming it all on you. obviously, all the stakeholders that have a part to play. why has the world food security that committee or fail failing? why? why, why is it such a family? we know there's enough food to feed the earth, what 3 dimes over, and it's not a supply problem, per se. want wire all these people facing starvation this christmas. well, it's exactly a big problem. and those numbers which you cited which come from the sophie 2022 report actually for to the previous year. so i would be surprised that those numbers are even higher. f o just came out with a report in early december saying 45 countries on urgent need of food assistance. 33 of them in africa, all reeling with the issues of climate. coven 19 soaring inflation. and of course,

the major driver at the conflicts which are going on around the world, including the one you cited between russia, ukraine. i mean that 4000000 children involved in britain, but i mean that, that can't be the problem. cove, it and all these other things kind of, i mean, you, course it is part of it or dropping food is, is extremely expensive. you know the wi fi, well i know from are other interviews you've had you're, you're very aware of what the situation is and who the players are. and this is extremely complex. i, it's issue personal. no one can even agree on exactly how to solve world hunger. we have targets in std too. and, but it's extremely complex. and the conflicts in particular, which just seem to be expanding. am, are really tipping the balance in the invasion of ukraine in february of this past year. of course was the invasion of

a country that is one of the major bread baskets of the world for weed, for grains, for sunflower oil. one question i have to ask is, the greatest successful food security provision? perhaps in all world history was performed by the chinese communist party 800000000 out of poverty, of course, and feeding 800000000 in the space of a couple of decades. 75 percent of global poverty reduction. 40 years. do you notice that there's something different about the way the chinese communist party operate or the body in cuba, i suppose, which is sanctioned, don't involve private stakeholders or private actors at did. did your time in the committee on world food security take on board that the most successful food security operation can be made by copying? perhaps the chinese communist party. why it's actually my experience before the cfs, when i was a diplomat living in china,

i got for santa to witness the way the chinese work. and if you go back to the late seventy's after the cultural revolution shall hang, introduce market reforms, which actually input private sector and the profit motive into play, which is what help drive china's rather remarkable experience and bringing that many people out of poverty. so yes, china is a member of the cfs, china's active in the f, a o. as you know, in fact that the director general, the appeal is chinese. and so their experience does bear on, on, on everything from research and science to the way the global system in trade works. no, don't tell turbine clearly because you get the fun. i mean, you are unesco as well. you saw how that the money dried up on, on that one. obviously the kind of private sector increased involvement in the market reforms and china, very different to the private as scape stakeholders today in global food security

and western nations. though, what i mean, what is the power of we were interviewing. dr. london achiever, the pioneer of the one of the pioneers went to globalization on the show in a week or so time on this show. and she's been saying it is these private corporate stakeholders, that big international institutions mix up with very different, arguably to the small stakeholders that china was favoring in their agricultural revolution. it's their fault. that's why there's all these hundreds of millions that have starving this christmas. it's not ukraine, it's not a cove it, it's actually something much more systemic if we have enough food in the world. and it's the dr. full profit from say, fertilizer companies that's really causing the starvation. i suspect you want to talk to

a nobel prize winning economist who can work out the macroeconomics on this. one point is china does engage in the global trade market. it is heavily dependent on importance of certain products for me, production, it exports a lot. so to, to differentiate china between the, the rest of the training system, i would look at the issues that coven didn't unveil. i think in the global supply of food is quite, is quite revealing. particularly the concentration in the hands of a few small, small number of companies trading companies in the ways that agriculture trading is done shipping the insurance, everything involved including for fertilizer and key in core to agriculture. hugely state controlled, right. i mean, the, the okay, perhaps we're talking too much on china. i mean, eritrea say pick eritrea. 100 percent food security sanctioned by the united states

and european governments take cuba sanctioned by the united states. why is it these countries that are outside the economic system? do so well on food security, take eritrea. i mean, you must deposit your desk at the committee for world food security. no error trays, not one that i've dealt with very often. they weren't active it, but i do know read as much as i can on, on the region. it is a particularly vulnerable country and particularly with what we're seeing as a result of climate change. and i know you're interested in sanctions, issues in the politics around that. and the fact of the matter is a much larger number of people are suffering and impacted by climate change. we're not addressing it in the way it needs to be addressed. either in the you and framework convention, the cops us one held not far from eritrea, and jermel shake. we have to take it seriously. the continued use of fossil fuels

at the base of our agricultural systems is leaving, it's very vulnerable. you've seen the horn of africa, droughts that are better putting millions at risk at the locus infestation. all the changes that are manifested in this type of, i know that, i mean the britain has just announced a massive trade deal with the united states to sub importing ellen, g guess refract areas of louisiana and new knows where else in the united states. as fracking, and i think we can both agree that's probably not good for climate change. that's kind of over, isn't it? i mean, that kind of, i mean, talk, i mean it's to, at that, that's a talk about it at conferences. again, one of the biggest image is shiners saying civil a power mass solar and so on and all these different breakthroughs, western nations, they, they don't seem to be that bullet about fossil fuels anymore of to what happens in ukraine. do they? yeah, i think there is a recognition, i think more has to be done,

but i think there are very clear commitments that have been made. the u. s. is back in the person and there is a framework in mind to get to that 0 from the energy sector and core. it's the of the largest contribution to greenhouse gases. but i think there has to be realization and the investment to go with it. that fossil fuel consumption is not the way forward. we have to stop in recovery from cobra. you see this huge burst in, in energy consumption, living in coal, another fossil fuels. we have to, we have to incentivize renewables in a much stronger way. everyone guy know, agrees with all of that. and of course, the critics on both sides say there are vested interests in the green movement who are not doing what they're saying and so forth. but on global food security, your central role as a secretary of the, the committee with the f l. a u. n committee i,

i think many of you may want to know, and i, i us agnes calabasas at this d u. n. special envoy. she acknowledged that there were problems with neo liberal models of the way the systems worked when it came to food. have you personally experienced lobbying of any kind when you were at the un wilts food security committee? of course it's the un is a political body. so lobbying goes on everywhere, including a committee that is hosted at cfo, but it is a multi lateral body with a $133.00 members. it's again, it's, it's decisions are made by the members, but it's relies on the technical expertise so that they owe you. and if you have p to lobby is going on because every country, every region has its views on their own domestic interest,

their own private lobbying, private, loving, well, the private sector is part of cfs. so of course there is a private sector representation just like there is a civil society group. chris, i guess i'll stop you there. more from the former secretary of the you and committee on world food security after this break. ah, ah ah ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on offense. very dramatic development only personally and

going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very care to kill time time to sit down and talk with welcome back to going undergrad. i'm still here with the former secretary, the you and committee on world food security, chris hagedorn. on private lobbying. how does it work at these big a, you know, international law level discussions? does someone put a can round up on the table and say, is this fear garden? because these are pretty powerful companies that you're dealing with and their lobbyists. right? let me emphasize was dealing with because i'm no longer secretary, but the and again, the weight of us is that it is a big tent that brings in every one. rome of course, has

a center for food issues within the u. n. so you have an active participation of science, this of diplomats, of private sector, civil society groups, everybody who, who has a stake in this game. now we went through, we develop policy recommendations on the topic of innovation. and so we wound up changing the name to innovative approaches, agro ecological and other innovative approaches. because there's an ongoing debate about whether agro college is the way forward or more industrial types of food production. and so that's the type of political debate that's going on all the time, including after us. what's your view agent? my view is that i think there is plenty of room for agro ecological approaches using technology using science and research and using it or data. data systems are notoriously weak, particularly in the countries that are most food insecure. so if you can link data

to policy making, so people actually are making decisions based on the facts. yes, this is a very good. so i think there is much room for a move towards regenerative agriculture. there's plenty of data out there. are companies that are collecting data into satellite data, others, but which companies there's, there's the ghouls and the various folks who are using satellite data for everything from traffic, you know, to tracking your food purchases. but it's data that will help countries stick to a strategy to use agriculture to get out of already. or this is the way we see data systems. and the importance of data being tied to policies for governments and policy makers are actually making informed decision. you mentioned google there, i mean, some would say, especially those who are lobbying in a very different direction,

who don't believe that these 2 2nd segments of food security can co exist. would say no forget google. forget bear and co teva, or i understand is the company that came through from, from dow, forget these companies, small holding farms, produce ball food. in fact, i gave you a tray as an example earlier that, that's what you do. you have small holdings and you don't industrialize farming, which some say creates health risks. the prevalence of allergies, all sorts of different problems associated with mechanized industrial production. and then in fact, the fact that he has they can produce enough food anyway. we don't need this industrialization. actually, what you're saying is symptomatic of a desire for profit and shield a value on wall street. far more than feeding these hundreds of millions that will starve in the next few days. your words, not mine, but i understand you're trying to to find the story here it's, it's

a transition there there's they have to go. it's, it's, there are different models and there are different ways of doing business, whether it's united states or cambodia or some other smaller developing countries. doesn't have the same access to resources that the global market, sir, the market in the trading system is not going to go away and it has to be respected, or the most efficient allocation of resources. question is, how's the training system improved? and this is what i'd like to see the w t o doing a better job in addressing these inequality stay the lack of resilience in the training system. the codes are unveiled and address the issue of subsidies. how do you mean the w t. o, in terms of protecting intellectual property rights for seeds or reducing protectionism in the european union. what global easier that terrible record say

the globe many members of the global south? yeah, no, i understand the criticisms, i understand where it can do better. and the fact of the matter is the, the forum where the rules are made and applied and disputes are resolved. what i think is important. one of the most important things for you to do is to make sure that ex work restrictions are avoided at all cost. certainly those that are not within the rules and you know, there were upwards of 39 export restrictions as late as august of this year. i think the number has gone down since, but those are what most people us ascribed as the root cause of the crisis back in 2009 when countries slash export restrictions on rice. so following rules, striking those rules and putting teeth in the system when those rules are broken,

i think is something that the retail can, can look at very squarely. and i think they are. i know the dumbly dio poses or appears to it has to play very diplomatic, a side step dance on this opposed to the lot of us sanctions. i don't know how many countries the united states sanctions, right now. an incalculable always be china and other countries are when it comes to industry. i'm sure that breaks w t o rules. but our u. s. sanctions actually a force for good in that they make individual economies that i mentioned earlier, sustainable and better able to create food security in those countries. the bolivian president was on was on this show. he intimated that obviously, as i said, cuba, people in nicaragua and you name it, every country in the world that has been hugely sanctioned by the united states. and nato nations usually creates food security by being outside of this global

mechanism and trade mechanism, which makes him over reliance on a few corporations. or, i mean this is obviously an extremely complex topic. there are rules and when the rules are followed, there has to be some system in place to, to make people follow the rule. but look, if there's is, i think, a mis characterization of what sanctions, how the replied and how they're enforced economic sanctions, obviously. or it's all in economic state craft, but typically food and medicines are exempt from sanctions regime. same or russia, ukraine. it's the same for cuba. and i know there's a lot of complexity beyond that general statements, but typically food is not on the list of sectional. i don't, i'm not, i mean, in iraq or the sanctions against that. i was saying that preceded the war. and how may i know how many was held and you know, that, you know, venezuela,

about lame sanctions for impoverishing and one estimate on 21000 dead is it from, from sanctions. i know you speak with a great deal of authority because it was you were a diplomat. previously. i last a last year. not a clue. you know that close to ger widen. but you did work as an intern. bear and you were his assistant. tell me, tell me what you expect from joe biden on world of food security given that the world is facing such a such a terrible threat. this christmas i did work for then senator biden, on my 1st job in washington before going off to grad school. i have a lot of respect for him. his wife, dr. joe biden. and staff that i worked with who were absolutely top notch. i know he has no, really his head, not in the right place when it comes to dealing with, with the world's problems. especially the conflicts that are,

that are going on around the world that are causing so much footage cure. so i think, you know, the, the 1st response was addressing covered the loss of life, massive loss of life in the united states and trying to help deliver vaccines around the world. and then domestic issues about how to address food insecurity in u. s. i know you're aware of that out of numbers, which are fairly surprising, upsetting in the u. s. number of people who are on either economic assistance or lining up with soup kitchen. so these are things that, that it home for america, sir, as well as, as those around the world, one segment of the pro democrat camp who believe that he's completely out of touch and funded by what credit card completes in delaware. i finance and he doesn't care i, i don't really every balance has critics. i don't see. i don't see that the

criticism is valid, i think by the administration is doing its best to not only take care of american farmers and changed the dynamic. if you look at a political map of who boats fruman us, you look at the read states, those are ones were who does grown. i think mr. biden is agriculture. secretary, i understand that you have to have to win the hearts and minds of farmers to to continue to be elect. how do conferences re, i mean, given cop christine is on, given, i know there's a conference to day where you're speaking with the head of the w h o. how do we're or, or yesterday i how, how do they help food security? i mean, i get a be unkind, wouldn't have to say if only the poor could eat conferences, but you do enjoy them because them, the kinds of people that go to these conferences is more often than not, not the poorest people or other you're right in that

regard, but i think is conferences, do bring people together who can bring different perspectives and experiences. having the director general w h. obe, speak on a conference panel looking at food security makes it very clear that those 2 issues, food security and nutrition are in supper. i had the number one killer in the world is diet related disease. we're talking about heart failure, diabetes, cancer's people dying of her early death because of the foods they eat, alter process foods, sugar fats, salts. do you eat organic food? i do. yup. i make a point of it. you buy pesticide, free jam of free food. whenever i can, bo, well, i'm willing to pay a little extra to avoid the risk of the,

of the what ifs. i would much rather eat locally grown a healthy organic in. so the, you know, that the big companies, the go to the conferences that we just talked about. and they say that, that they're safe. i mean, i, i, you know, bill gates, i know the miller melinda gates circle, racial fund, a lot of these things. gates and i've never been shy about my passion for fertilizer, it's a magical innovation that is responsible for saving millions of life from hunger, lifting millions at a point. what are you doing? eating food that isn't being given chemical fertilizers. listen, mother nature does it, right. it's the best way to, to grow and grow food. my opinion. yes, we've been able to use scientific advances to increase the yield of certain plants, rice, plant weed plants, you name it, and it's impressive,

but has it resolves the hunger issue? the answer is no. i think if we get back to the basics of her letting mother nature do what she does best, which is balancing out s in the fog, i am the diseases with the with are human bodies in human and biome. i think we will all be better off now, population is, is running very high, population increases and this is something that is not talked about very often. and, but what's better that seeing people star, we're feeding them with who that is produced with chemical fertilizers and have to say rather c, m people eating g m o industrial produce food than starved. but, you know, we have for ignite issues to, to resolve on the score. well, the companies will say that it's completely safe to eat their fertilizer food, all the big, good chemical companies. and some people say that it's, it's not a,

it's not a choice. i have at all is, is it a food bit, chris? i good. thank you. and that's it. my sure. we'll be back next week with a nother brand new episode. but until then you can still keep in touch by role as social media. if it's not centered in your country, but you can always have to watch on going other grantee on rumble. don't come to watch new and all that sort of going on with a shadow, shorter one. and i'm not going to stay like a national

z. m u shyly yours is my dear bye. when you sit down with a headlines right now in our t as victor booth gives his 1st t v interview in an exclusive to r t office spending 11 years. and it says the west has lost itself in spiraling value. what's happening in the west? just the suicide it.