the u. s. just seem to get away with that one for us are up for now. whatever you want to this weekend, i hope you having a good one on pizza scott's and i'll be back again in around 30 minutes time. but tuesday tuned from all great programs, right. say ah ah ah ah. 2 victor boot the russian arms dealer

who had been incarcerated in one of the highest security penitentiaries in the united states for the last 12 years is now home with his family. after being exchanged for american, w and b, a star, brittany griner. she had been imprisoned in russia after being convicted on drug charges. in a handful of interviews, boots seems like a normal russian citizen, not somebody who has seen the worst of what the american prison system has to offer . today we'll talk about what the experience was like for him. i'm john curry. aku . and you're watching the whistleblowers. ah. when i was at the cia in the early part of the last decade, victor boot was one of the agencies top targets the cia, the f, b i and interpol searched for boot all over the world. they accused him of being in

arms dealer. and one of the most dangerous men on the planet boot was finally found in thailand where he was arrested and extradited to the united states. after being convicted on a myriad of charges, he was sent to the notorious communications management unit at the u. s. penitentiary in marietta, illinois until the creation of the so called super max prison at florence, colorado. marion was the toughest prison in america. some of the country's most dangerous and most high profile prisoners were kept there. and even then, the communications management unit, or c, m u, was set up to keep the most dangerous of the most dangerous prisoners silent away from the press away from their friends, their family members, and even their own attorneys. this is of course, ridiculous. the cm use are used mainly to silence prisoners who are not at all dangerous, but they could be embarrassing to the federal bureau of prisons because they have access to the media. or because they know something that could embarrass the

american government. we'll talk about these notorious cm use with dina. got his felt the wife of cmu, prisoner, marty, got his felt, marty served some of his time in the same communications management unit as victor boot and with famed drone whistleblower daniel hale. why is marty in prison? why does the u. s. government view him as a dangerous prisoner? it's because he initiated a computer denial of service attack on a hospital in boston after the hospital had forcibly taken a sick young girl from her parents. and falsely accused them of abuse. the government's hypocrisy is incredible. here. dana, welcome to the show. hey john, good to see you. thank you for having me. good to see you, dana dana, i've known you for a long time and we've talked about marty's case many, many times. even given my familiarity with his case, i'm just still as shocked now as i was when i 1st learned that marty was in

a c. m. u. and i'm baffled over the bureau of prisons decision to try and silence him and people like him. marty was just recently transferred from the c, m u in marion, back to the countries other c m u in terra haute, indiana. that's the prison that also houses the federal death row. i want to begin by having you described to our viewers what daily life is like for marty in a c, m, u i. c m u is different than the rest of the bureau of prisons. in that it learning his ability to speak with attorneys and what it's like right now, as attorneys can even get legal calls with him. now a significantly delayed he can't get so many phone calls. it's usually to 15 minute call that week. i think a lot of it is just keeping them can in a small unit of about 70 people in the larger jail for him and

he's a jailhouse lawyer. so i think he's busy with the time. right. i can certainly understand the need for a cmu for let's say terrorists, you want one terrorists to be on the phone, coordinating other terrorist attacks with, you know, other terrorists, but as often is not, that's not who's in the c amuse. many of the prisoners are people like marty or drone whistleblower daniel hale or victor boot. it's meant as yet an additional layer of punishment for people whom the government just doesn't like. marty has fought his placement in a cmu for years. tell us about that struggle and how it's played out so far. in your introduction you've talked about just been a case and it wasn't just the protest against bad conditions. there was a rope life on the line and he in a way that didn't harm any patients that the jury found. i was able to return her

to her family after about 13 months of horrible treatment that would qualify as torture under the. ready when convention, if you i, the thing in the hospital, boston, childrens hospital is part of the harvard network. it receives the most federal funding of any pediatric teaching hospital. and so when you anger harvard in boston, and i think it goes out. marty is a senior systems engineer, he's never had any trouble with the law and then to put him in a c, m. u when they're like real bad people in regular jails. exactly crazy. there have to be a designation from i think i forget the some kind of them director in the b o. p has to sign off on it. they don't give any reasons and you can challenge it a lot with with complaints and it doesn't really go anywhere. why a p and c m u. that's an excellent question. this is just guessing they don't. they

don't tell you, but marty has not has not let their obese and their mis treatment of prisoners and disrespect for the lock go and noticed. he's published and scathing articles in the intercept r t rub state and a number of others. i think that this is a way to violence people. i think that you see a lot of politically sensitive cases like daniel hale and schafer, cox than dog reynolds. this is the cmu is, is like a blast site is where the government will put people that they want to silence and it's actually crazy that it even exist. you would think biden would have wanted to do right by the american citizen green after the rally. hard again, truck,

but trump actually put in the 1st step act. and now the 1st step act is not being honored, is not being respected. marty. okay. yeah, no, i'm agreeing with you. the 1st step back hasn't been respected. we've not seen reforms coming out of the biden administration, and i'll tell you something else that just happened. it happened in the, in the very 1st week of december. and that is the warden of the women's prison at dublin. california was convicted on 13 different counts of, of raping female prisoners. well that's someone who's too dangerous to live among the public. if someone is too dangerous to be on the street, he's not in a c, m. u, he's perfectly free to walk around in prison and go outside and exercise and talk to the media and talk to his lawyers and talk to his family and do anything he wants. so really, i think your point is,

is well taken. if they want to silence you, if they want to punish you, if they want to make your time in prison, more difficult because they have what you did or who you are. that's when they put you in a c. m, you? yeah, i wanted to mention that marty's judge judge, nathaniel horton is, is tied in with the adoption agency that would work on getting just donated into another family home. i know there's financial ties from the judge to the case. and even when he was asked or excuse, he still wouldn't do it. so there's definitely animosity between the judge towards marty. i know you're absolutely right and we've spoken about this, the number of times going through the criminal justice system up close has been one of the biggest rude awakening that you can imagine in terms of, you know,

a lot of things turn out to just be cardboard and there's nothing behind in terms of you know, you go to groups and workers and legal system, and you say like, here's the case, am i right? or am i wrong? and it just turns out the being right doesn't matter. the way that i found the things work are with social pressure and with media attention, it is way more powerful than with the law is going to do for you. and we see that i think many, many times it's been hard to swallow. but what do you know when i was in prison after i blew the whistle on the ca torture program, i was placed in something called a modified c, a c m u. this was after i wrote an open letter that was picked up by almost every media outlet in the united states. i later did

a freedom of information act request on myself with the bureau of prisons and in return i received a document that the prison warden had sent to all jail staff the week before i arrived in very large letters. it said caution. inmate has access to the media. as a result of all my ridiculous, right? all my phone calls were monitored as they took place. my incoming and outgoing emails were monitored and were subject to a 5 day delay. and even my incoming and outgoing mail was opened and photocopied before either being given to me or being sent out. what marty and victor boot and daniel hale and others are going through. ready is even worse than that. tell us about the limits of contact that marty has and what he's done to hold the bureau of prisons accountable for its actions. yeah, good question. sorry to hear that that happened to you that is afraid of the cmu

taking place outside of the those are all things that sound familiar? i mean marty's attorney literally can't reach him. they will. the president will not allow him to have attorney calls. they say, unless there's an impending court deadline, but it's none of their business. if a lawyer and i didn't want to speak about the case and next steps regardless, ending that immediate deadline. there's other people like donald reynolds, who doesn't get through to congressmen. she was at marty as well to media. it's just blocked. everything like you said is calls i listen to in real time. all mail is saved. there's you know, when you go into jail, you don't lose your right. that's right. and it seems like you do.

unfortunately, it's, it's tough, you know, in september 2021 r t r t wrote an article about him, and i shared the media call i had with him in a q, marty of trying to conspire. he violated a 3rd party or which means, i guess a 3rd party you can't be involved actually with this. and you can have a 3rd party on the call. so it can only be me and him, it can't be 2 people and him and they ended up taking away his phone and his e mail from september 2021 to august 2020, you know, bills and they had him in solitary confinement for a lot of the 1st few months it's, it's, it's like,

it's just one of those things like, you know, obviously we're happy that he's taking action and you know, with foreign prisoners. but like, what about the people at home like weird cancer, we're getting the thing thing that the penal colony are doing. i hate to say it, but it's, it's just a really scary situation and seen it feel so unfair and i feel very disenfranchised . you know, just as an aside, dana after victor boot was, was sent back to russia and brittany griner was brought back to the united states. there were articles in the u. s. press talking about the so called penal colony that, that britney griner had been sent to. and they were saying, oh my god, it's so terrible they make her work for almost nothing. and the food is terrible and there's no medical care. and i wrote an article, i dashed it off, and i said,

clearly none of these american journalists have ever seen the inside of an american prison. because what they're describing is an american prison. we have no right to complain about prisons anywhere else when ours don't even meet the most basic level of human rights. that's just me. people and people go out last should not trust and i can agree with you more or throw victims a fixer black. how 1st? yes, exactly. do you know? yes, spoken to 2 countless attorneys activists elected officials. has anybody been able to explain to you how the bureau of prisons has gotten away with using these c. m. use as a weapon to silence? how high profile prisoners? how is the b o p able to use these units so unethically without their being any follow? yeah, that's a great question. i mean, there's been a number of hearings in front of congress by the director of the you

know, go, they make a show that they do a little recording that they can put online. but the b o. p. 's played by controversy just horrible thing after horrible thing and nothing ever really seems to change. i don't know if it's that it's hard to explain. i mean, this is something i've been re watching the congressional hearings on the troubled teen industry, which is a pro not necessarily affiliated, but there are programs across the country that try to help which tough love trouble views. so it's like right treatment facilities like that. and, and one of the scenes, the head of the geo, the government accountability office, gregory, one of the congress, people asked them like,

why are these people in general, like for what they're doing as i don't know. and i think it ties back to what we were saying before and that like it's the wild west out here like rules laws. it just doesn't matter like and you any would in no way. you really wouldn't know it until you've gone through it. i do not think that the media that just your, your everyday experience with let you know, you know, when i see people saying like you have your day in court as in like that's, that's enough to prove whether you're innocent or guilty. it's like, oh my god, that is the most simplified version when. ready first graders, it's, it's so different than you think it is. it right and wrong becomes meaningless. it becomes what effective and what not. yes, we are speaking with dana,

god is spelled about conditions inside the u. s. bureau of prisons, notorious communications management units. we're going to take a short break and come right back with more so stay tuned. ah, cruise. 2 ah a

money a little money. you get a little money with la, hey, hey, hey, i've actually found safety and embrace of naziism as a joke. all of a sudden you're placed in a position where i can defend myself. now. i don't know to be afraid any more. on one hand, i'm terrified that they're going to find out i'm jewish, but on the other, i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and cursing john, they're going to hurt. one guy hunched me. hi my ear. i heard somebody shot now in

the rescue. and the punches are started. flying to somebody shouted out, died, you boy died. and at that point i knew i remember had an indian doctor. they came in and looked and said, there's no metaphor, reason lawyers, you should be alive. you to find something to believe. john story is a story of ho mystery, victory and whatever i can do to help him. i would. 2 2 0, welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. aku we're speaking with. dana got his feld, the wife of whistleblower. marty, got his spelled about conditions inside the notorious communications management unit at the u. s. penitentiary in marion illinois. this is the prison where russian prisoner, victor boot, was held for years. dana's husband marty also was incarcerated there and was

recently moved to an even worse prison at terra haute, indiana dana, thanks again for being with us. oh, john and uncle, how are you? it's a beautiful me that you have. thank you. i rather liking, i think they've done a great job here now. thank you. yeah. oh, dana, um, i know how hard it is for prisoners inside a c. m. u to communicate with one another. and when i've communicated with marty, i've always been very careful not to say tell daniel hale that i said hello or tell somebody else that i said hello. has marty said anything to you over the last a year or so about victor booty and his conditions inside the marion c. m u? yes, marty has spoken about victor booth. he hasn't referenced him by name. but when he does the phrase, the, your asian theater was pretty quick. things pick up. i'm in the brittany griner.

steph, yeah. actually at the time that marty was telling me about this, when they were considering getting the prisoner swap. marty mentioned that victor had a really bad rash on his body and also a problem with his eye and he's been denied medical care. and marty was wondering if that was biden's way of putting pressure on the situation to force a swap. i. i think eventually it is rash cleared up. i'm actually not totally, but i do remember give me a couple of months ago i've heard from friends who have served times. i'm sorry, go right ahead please. no, i brought that to the attention of numerous media people but nobody oh that's, that's a story in and of itself. here in the u. s. know that happens all the time. yeah.

yeah, stuff like that. wow. friends of mine who have serve time in c. m. use say that the cells are very, very small. 2 by 3 meters. everything's made of either concrete or steel, including the bed. the beds are made of concrete. and the prisoners are kept there either $23.00 or 24 hours a day. a couple times a week, they're allowed to exercise for one hour, essentially just walking in circles in a cage that happens to be outside. they're allowed one or 2 short showers a week all while a guard is watching them. and marty has a terrible experience with that. they're rarely allowed to speak to loved ones and attorneys. tell us about all that. how often can you speak with marty? and have you actually seen him since he was incarcerated? i'll start with that last question. the last time i saw mar. ready was january 2019 the day at the sentencing. and

after that, shortly after that he was transferred to the shoe which is stands for an segregating housing unit, which is just pregnancy for solitary and m. c. c, new york for a couple of months and then he went to the cmu and the terre haute in terra haute, indiana, and then t u. s. p marion marion illinois outage heard indiana. i have not seen him. i just just call no visit. and before that, i had seen him for 5 days during his trial, and i would go up to new york to visit him at m. c. c. new york. on the weekend. a lot of the work, i don't know if you recognize names, but a lot of these are profile jails. help they help

unit bomber the sci terra haute is williams is always yeah, a lot of the conditions that you described just now. definitely sound like the like the segregated housing unit, voluntary at the f. b. i tara ho, you know, not only that, but the heaters and if they don't have proper ventilation during the summer, they call it the burrito cooker because you can travel breed on the floor and cook and it's so punitive it's, it's so terrible and not to mention the bugs and wrote in the infestation and perhaps most importantly, the water, the water is not potable or rough. the toilet like it was the things like, it's not stuff that you should be doing. and they've put in there for now long.

just the amount of time that he spent in solitary and so concerning, you know, like it's for me why one of one of the things that really finally landed on me in the trouble teen industry, that it's not how bad it is, is when we stop, we watch the video called to watching the kids and they describe one of the fathers described being helped a little room was just a bucket and just scraping things into the walls. and for me, solitary has always been really scary. and that way, like one of my biggest fears and have to like, face to face with knowing someone, the parents can't stop caring about it is really scary, especially when it's for months at a time and, and especially for helping a girl like just being appellate for penalty was based on the penalty was

based on the amount that they had to pay to have a tough line. right. so the whole thing is just so frustrating and the amount of people that this is happening to is is unbelievable. and makes me feel like, like, should i stay like, should i do i stay in fight or do i just leave the country because it's not worth it anymore. right. and i think everybody after that question for themselves, but i can't believe we're treating people like this. thank you to our guest, dana, god is spelled and the best of luck to her husband, marty got his cell. and thank you to our viewers for joining us today. try to keep in mind that we all have a role to play in situations like this. the true measure of our own character is how we treat the poor. the disavowed the accused, the incarcerated and the condemned. were all implicated when we allow other people to be mistreated. let's make sure that our friends and families all understand that

. i'm john kerry. aku, thanks for joining us for another edition of the whistleblowers. we'll see you next time. ah. 2 2 2 2 2 ah, ah ah, who is the aggressive today? i'm authorized additional strong sanctions today. russia as a country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. i think of this question because you said you most wish you were bending all imports of russian oil and gas in energy where you're suffering the highest typing in another country of those little christopher had

sent us for a given regarding joe biden, imposing these sanctions on russia, jo has destroyed the american economy, so there's your boomerang self. lou needs to come to the russian state. little, never the tires on the northland scheme with 55 with will ban in the european union. the kremlin media machine, the state on to russia for date, and r t spoke now, given our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube and pinterest and

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