you so much professor for coming on say must have been important if even a host of the world cup cuts are officials that to a tend to leave the world cup. what does it signify because there's been relatively little press attention in nature, nation media, whereas the global south has it is their 3rd headline on all their news bulletins. oh, very significant is the 1st time as far as i can remember that, that chinese talk mostly in a country. and, you know, symbolic also has not been seen that it actually shows that both sides. china and the rock countries are strong, common ground interest. go in today, which is a lot going on your credit and also your competition going to united states and china. cost is a great on 70, about future bar this summer in china,

aerobics countries, all the great significance to science really show really want to join, hands on to for in some part goes to most all science. i think that is great. of course. well, i will be interested in that can be there in berlin, but we're not in an echo chamber. i know that professor, but as you know, i think tanks and g o z a are arguably in echo chambers we read from the atlantic council bill saying that one shouldn't redo much significance in this. and the other saying this is incredibly significant. the national security council spokesperson in washington said john kirby said we are mindful of the influence the china is trying to grow around the world. and of course this in the context of the fact that us agencies of already labeled china,

the number one enemy of the united states. do you think there's a battle in washington that to be in one by those who see joiner is an enemy rather than as a partner to cooperate with a more prosperous wealth? them are some people of course, are you want in the d. c. and the united states same china as a. ready number one, a, me or rival, but now official line of washington, d. c, that china is a most, you know, serious challenger to the u. s. and the u. s. lead in the national order and danny's our facial line. if that's a challenge or of course, whatever china us either see, a kind of lost the united states because people in washington, d, c, c, the u. s. china combination has a 0 sum game, which i certainly is there on the product that is very common, reductive. but of course, the united states of america as people in washington d. c, were trying to water down the significance of the summit. but the fact the,

the fact i seen is, like i said, just now, it has a great, significant, exposing himself symbolic and the substance or china as they're going power and number 2 power and also number one inch a trade in my, on those need a kind of reliable supplier for energy, which in the square like off countries produce. on the other hand, the ghost hunters also new china's a major polyps, establish a new strategic banners in the region because often a decent and we shall soviet union. the us israel alliance there. as a owning advantage, i think that's the very reason why there's no stability ever since. of course, even china, joan, in given china's capacity or capability. and also china's piece for development strategy guessing would be a very positive element in the region. and also where, how in my, in the long run stabilize this situation. there economically speaking,

of course, china's one by one road initiative. an effort will also kind of, we're right into our hands of the countries over there. we'll try to restructure the economy. so that is economy would not, so you get a not in the industry, but become more diversified and the more more balance in the future. so we know the saudis already have this 20. so to find a new study strategy could be val. and of course, are china, sir, you know, a corporations, china can be very, very productive and the fruitful in this regard. well, ok, hundreds of millions of people from latin america through africa, through se, asia and russia and china may agree with what you are saying. but, you know, in europe and the united states, quite apart from the fact that the saudis, the u. e. the middle east is routinely condemned over human rights issues. china is a routinely on the bbc and cnn, and other a television nerve broadcasters, as a,

as a grocer, human rights violator, of them all, with concentration camps. i'm not sure quite how they argue the draws about the fact that the saudi arabia is the guardian of the holy places of his slum. whilst scheiner is supposed to simultaneously be anti muslim, but is the narrative last in europe and the united states? this now he has 3 bonds, number one, and only that is loose leg that people who accused china and other countries as the human rights violations loose lack of them perfect. they don't have any problems that i am 80. my lease is on human rights, which is, are slowly launching nachos, if you had a history all at present. those people who are accused china, i mean the people are united states or europe. they have a very bloody history of violation of human rights and the colonialism slim re system. and so, so force that unified on the leading people lacking army america, united states, america and australia and stuff like that. thus,

history and human prison, we see a lot of discriminations along wireless, a lot of the quality and the gap between region a poor and so as long columns, they are 2, i is a 1st problem. second problem, of course you china lacking re out a lack in law, different countries. irrational hall, this countries is not covered as a systems not perfect. there are rooms and needs to be improved dollars because thus we, we're human being trying to do will try to kill you. we're also so a kind of been a future last not a problem. the problem is we are, we have the 3rd one that is a dollar standard. you cannot, you know, accused us why you are south says to be perk this thomas standard sandwich, sample credit. last, why? and i, the space and all those p was last curly credibility, and then the become more and more, ideally, a minority of course,

this thing is unattractive on the look at it. only 10 percent of colonial population on this side. so to some with our, my point is here we as a human being one not perfect aim your society. on the a republican system, there are cross nice to me, saw the iron limit that will come, you know, a progress bar. it is wrong. yes, absolutely. nonsense. to say that i'm is, was one person i have the moral high ground young one for me to become then. and also is even even worse to apply a kind of double standard on those issues that i'm waiting all of us and not in a candle more difficult and worse in situations not this is not, is does now out, you know, the arguments, intellectual arguments used against what you said, usa then g o, they will say what you're engaged in there is, what about is them? and they're saying, well, we're not perfect. we know. i don't know, they've what overthrown 40 countries around the world in 50 years,

their governments and their torturing the british or torturing julian, a sergeant london. we know all that, but it's worth somehow in the global south that that is their standard response. but isn't china losing the narrative? partly because it seems to be arguing as if there are rational actors arguing with rational actors as it were. i mean, as, as you know, they've already said that china is the enemy. number one, they send warships into the south china sea and they, we em, let's see. i mean, that there, there are continuous remarks from the united states. and my 6 in london, china is the single greatest priority very my 6 china seeks to distort public discourse. the api i boss china is the biggest long term threat to our economic and national security. why does china behave so often in europe, in the united states as if they're a, they're going to summer persuade western capitals of their argument. now since our,

this is very a ironic now, so sometimes even lockable for people who stated a gun, china is non winding. of course, our lot of people here in washington and in the west in china is a number was read. and in that regard, china indeed seems to be a number and but on the other hand, we say that you, by the persons are by then just a few weeks ago, united nations assembly is that in that a space as a nation does nasty conflict with china when non kind of in a cold war, which china a se corporation, because 3 sees by them, institution policy or shine, of course no more is computation. number 2, of course, is confrontation to try to a number 3 is a corporation in the areas the say coming into come interests. you wanted to use the c to so we sent for her to forces fighting against each other in washington dc and the in the west in general. on the one hand, the china rise as

a threat to them, we optimize. and on the other hand, these days, the necessity and of course are also a need to work with china on the kind of challenges or human kinds of facing like climate change, leg non proliferation of nuclear weapons. and now of course of the global financial stability and not also one china to out, to mediate or to, to bring an end with his body where you grin. so it is that kind of self contradictory elements or, or phenomena, always say in the west, of course, china always carry on this piece for development strategies, not just china, just say that, but china is doing that. i've been doing this for 40 years in history. we know that he should never before has a major heart keep rising for 40 years without a single gunshot. be fired outside china. that's amazing. that's a fact. that's a reality. we know that off the cold, all of the end of the cold war,

less so many crisis, all along the kosovo crisis, georgia crisis. you quin crisis sooner. crisis or or so and so forth. but they're also crisis in our street. the crisis in south china, the, the crisis between china and the job, i'm over the army, austin cockle, ireland. by one fact, everybody can see all the crisis will never united states and the west candy bar will play a major. i mean one of them and not in the war, not a single exception. all those crises were china, lisa, major, oh, no single gunshot has been fired in the past 30 years, professor hong ging, i'll stop you that more from the director, the institute of the u. s and pacific studies and the shy international studies university after this break. ah, ah,

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk with another while you while you easy while friendly. oh yeah. it's a fun slide. yes. south. yeah. thrashing a south with

griffin. you got carson for years now, which does not for me at that. i'll pull up right. people not resemble. yeah. pull video from sure. let me just kim's room, thoughtfully it's, it's the dealer a bill, and that's my fault or change in that again, the audio fortune. pretty up my be a lot about this morning just to financial a

ah, welcome back to going under ground. i am still here with professor one jing from china's shanghai international studies university. are there not cultural gunshots being fired all the time, making out that china is evil in any case and her china. i know it's had some kind of exercise after nancy pelosi visit to taiwan, which was contrary to actual u. s. foreign policy. in terms of recognition of taiwan as part of gina. gina just thought, well, we'll fire a few guns as a some sort of practice. this while 400 military u. s. base is in circle china, just on this trip. um, they're talking about the petro, you $1.00 and pricing oil in not in dollars. the atlantic council, others are trying to say, look, this isn't too big a deal. other countries have done it, of course,

when other countries from the global south want to price oil in currencies other than the dollar, more than often not to their leaders have been assassinated. what do you think of the dangers for china and for saudi arabia, or for talking openly about pricing oil in currencies other than the dollar lead to use that to use your suggestion. i don't watch a cell number was a town, is your palace a visit? anti white china launcher in a large military operations are exercised. iran, i want the island pie one actually is the largest ever since that vietnam will end it. of course, the 2nd issue is that we're china is going to use chinese currency that is on me. and to pay for the oil to as a price that the pay for the all your channels by a, from saudis. the 1st shot, of course, is a very simple because united states. and here to what they say, one china policy in which they recognize the people's republic of china is that

only legal representative. he legitimate representative of china. the united states . never, ever really nice. taiwan, a sovereign state and honoring god the number's 3 person u. s. government speaker, i was a congress, lucy, we live in taiwan. we some military airplane, thus a very obvious violation of farmers all one china policy and also work that encourages cowling in those forces. i'm to challenge shyness. armand, he and her integrity, of course, china was a major partners. we're not tolerate this. so that's why tenure launches. huge military exercise as detailed, there was no one really had a bad thing. i find no one really i really want to use force to impact how indeed already was. chinese military forces are really enter the so called the 12 miles territory lie and the closest to my miles. and we don't say any american military

over there. it's kind of straight to so that tells you exactly that china one piece not. ready or a full on the pay for the full or full or you. i said, not even on the blame. the 1st one to play in the united states trying to with a nice little stars try and punish others for all the use your stance. use of payment swift try sunshine against russia if united states trying to use us dollars, which is like local currency grove. ok. we're currently at a womanizer for political purpose. of course. not worried sheila message to anyone could use us dollars because they could be a link in the next wrong list. next one, good united states. i use dollars to bonds though. as number one. number cool. we all know that error says, whose other name, liquidity, of your, honest liberty recovered. after all, yes, united states just keep pretty now the dollars with our

e can the limit they called q u. c. conduct no limitation. in other words, you know, united states fire use a full advantage of united star united states, thought of us a u. s. dollars or so animal currency to, you know, who is roy and other countries, including saudis and others. all of this, of course, a very strong in philly, number one out, the lady payment number to, to prevent all $3.00 and be you know, taking advantage by united states, especially when, when women as a shock dollars had become so kind of the responses gave europe united states, and i think that he's truly understandable on political studied and of course, economic one of you, i mean, as for that military display wasn't much covered in european capitals anyway, and in the united states. and you think those arguments will be persuasive to antony blinkin. samantha power, that whole edifice of the military industrial complex when they have $400.00 basis

circling china, they have proxies, arguably, in terms of south korea, japan new zealand, australia, around china. they have warships, routinely britain fens warships routinely around there. meanwhile, those intellectual arguments are being made that all china is interested is mutual prosperity and progress. i do not see that there will be people in washington who say no, there has to be a red line here and they won't be able to buy oil in currencies other than the dollar from saudi arabia. oh, and now it is a pity that people in washington dc. it will not make a final choir in so this is a sovereign state. so, so so's chinese decision made by china. saudis, if the 2 countries decided they want to have a sunday exchange and nobody really kind of in and awful or this is in the national

community that everybody has a park in it. it is not a kind of a wants to listen to the united states on this. yes. a, he's a hedge mom, but to some extent the subject line one and number one. and number 2, i think this is also good for the regional stability in terms of economic development and political stability loss goes and, and, and i think that he's not a kind of a action that or under my people's interest for the self interest is, will actually be good for everyone and ask for, you know, the rent alliance and so for so forth. first, i think that if you, you one have a red line won't prevent us to not across it. you have to define what your red line really is. the problem is that on other issues, united states is a play the game most strategic ambiguity. ready that inhibitor, the maximum is of flexibility and the minimize,

the so called commitment fire. if you play the game of strategic ambiguity, of course others have also kind of flexibility to player on. i said that's a fair again. but you don't believe that the government in the arab world that are doing deals with china or in any danger sadie arabia the u. e. where i was speaking to you from for trying to enter this multi polar. well, because as you know, for decades they've been seen in washington as a compliant states with us policy. yes, of course, there is a risk and i think the people, you know, rather countries are leaders, they are now very rational and very wise, once again again to prove in the dean, making a very rational decisions as things are fully understand, maybe better than you and me about what the risks really are. they have to do this because of that, you know, the explosion of not a straight $1.00 and $2.00 essays that united states not only want to dominate,

dominate or monopolize in the areas of security and make long element the want. also one who is a dominance in the energy market, because if you go out of those a line that send energy to europe from russia, then they, you have to, you know, depend on the energy from, from great britain, norway, in the united states. in other words, wait, the united states trying to monopolize the supply and demand or other energy market, which of course is very much a fundamental threat. we'll talk about threat a fundamental surround to look at the gulf countries because they are really agree, said lou, it's good and then use your money to price my products the higher. but if you want to determine a dominant wish buyers, combine our oil a wish. wish you know which country i can supply my product money is

a little too much. i think that's a fundamental reason for salaries to, to gave a co shoulder to, to buy the orange prison by don't visit there because they wanna make sure they are the one who make a decision. the wow, the site, you know, which countries are one, the supply energy, at what price they want to supply. and at one time, at what speed, at one volumes there was, they didn't number one united states to establish a take money. this is a increasing gap between strategic desire of united states. and that is a strategy come early. this guy is that even bigger as you know, as a result, we see that it was a united states. and this is alice want to do, cannot matter of, of you know, to want to see actually able to do. and of course, countries in the iraq countries also see this. this is

a weakness that they can take advantage of. and it is exactly this cannot act, peter strategy, desire, and strategy ability. dan has, has a low mine the sam e region and the d. r. i sin, when they're trying to strengthen orange expanded their corporation. a relationship with china. it's not for you non gas but also to kind of achieve a come on a political. ready and, and are you monica stability which is managed by a united states in the past? the kids does it matter that that analysis is not even understood as a dimension in which to contextualize warden politics in western media? does it even matter that the, the circle propaganda are on the nation? media speaks of the international community being against china,

being against russia, being against that famous meeting between children, being and of letting me put in the, in february where china is willing to work with russia to play a leading role in demonstrating the responsibility of major powers is what she jin being said, minimized that kind of news are arguably in nature, nature, media. but what is being emphasized is china is turning against russia and apparently, joiner is or i don't know, threatening bricks, i suppose to speak, legation. nice linda. he's some issues in the erosion, the china regarding this walk on your career. and i do now see that the 2 countries stand exact on the same page, but other problems can be in the shouldn't be sol, so communications. and because a to congress do have a very solid common ground based on number law, they have a similar concerns in terms of national security. they also have our economies to

economy, so really competency with each other. that's why china is very firmly refused to join the sanctions against washer. and also china refer. ready to condemn so called russia question, colon into you, chris, have you said that i sent china does have song also has uncommon interest was less . and for this, with the me, i tried to demonize shine now same as 3 kind of situations where i could distinguish carefully. number one, cause that even laura's, those people may never be to chime as an oral already. also have this kind of conscious or subconscious, a prejudice against china or chinese people as a nation. in other words, they need to be educated. a 2nd cannot cause is those who are very has a very, you know, you will with well, against shanda. they, they do not see china doing good there. so you shine, as you mentioned that as

a me, as us read that one china and go down this and so forth. another. ready the take on very hostile appellation or attitude against can i just can i just ask you finally, of course the pledge to support core interest seen as ukraine anti one made between be made with put in and she gin ping is seen in the west quite differently. especially with the number increased amount of import sanction of energy resources from russia. from china. do you think the west will so called west will be successful in cleaving apart this alliance between moscow and bay ging, using ukraine as an official, almost a china and russia never get into a kind of elias in terms of west our lives. they use a partnership, strategic partnership, of course it, he's wish will send him to, to, to separate russian to china use in the context of new crew. why? because of the 2 countries, like i said, a do have were

a strong come interest. and also we also noticed not only china, other countries like south africa, brazil, and ian of course, all countries refused to join the sanction going structure. and as a matter fact, the economy, one of them only about 40 countries, joined the century british roger, which means this minority. so i say that the, your groom bull is a tragedy which finally bria and were peacefully of course, by the past. no mean. all those countries had 2 sided with united states in west against washer because there is a reason for lisel, i think, from china on the view. the fundamental reason for this was our cold will mentality and the cold war behavior, a lawsuit and a state of knowledge. but nakeema, this cannot codle mentality and behavior where we're going to have more trouble on their ras one ging, thank you. and that said, for the show will be back next week with another brand new episode. but until then, you can still keep in touch by law social media. if it's not centered in your

country, but you can always head to our channel going on the grantee on rebel dot com to watch you handle that 3rd of going under grants. he very soon. ah, ah ah, eileen city where the temporary journey 3 higher already from the neighboring town. you know, right? because the other townships haven't shopped of the trees, but in type got in the name of development then in our pursuit to become of capital like a single or we are all going for our nation just covering all the grades we've gone. so when you distract nature, it takes a revenge of awe

with and it's late acts of censorship, of russian media that you targets all these parent company with another round of sanctions holding a freeze of the companies offset in europe un condemns a terror attack on versus humanitarian offices in the central african republic, which left the head of the mission seriously wounded. darcy thought the claim us manufactured and supplied drones, were used by ukraine in recent strikes on russian territory. despite washington, st. us weapons had not been used to a project in russia.