oh, hi, a significant lot to science really show really want to join hands on to, for in some pop groups to most all science. i got this great, of course the won't come up with i will be interested in that could be there in the berlin, but we're not in an echo chamber. i know that professor, but as you know, the think tanks and g o z a are arguably in echo chambers we've had from the atlantic council bill saying that one shouldn't redo much significance in this and the others saying this is incredibly significant. the national security council spokesperson in washington said that john kirby said we are mindful of the influence the china is trying to grow around the world. and of course this in the context of the fact that us agencies of already labeled china, the number one enemy of the united states. do you think that there's

a battle in washington that's been won by those who see joiner is an enemy rather than as a partner to cooperate with for a more prosperous wealth. them are some people of course, are you want on a d. c and the united states same china as a. ready number one, a, me or rival, but now official line of washington, d. c, that china is a most, you know, serious challenger to the u. s. and the u. s. lead in the national order and danny's our facial line. if that's a challenge or of course, whatever china us either see, a kind of lost the united states because people in washington, d. c. c, the u. s. china combination has a 0 sum game, which i think is where on the product that is very common, productive. but of course the united states of america as people in washington d. c, were trying to water down the significance of the summit. but the fact i seen is, like i said, just now, it has a great significance both in terms of symbolic and the substance or china as

they're going power and number 2 power and also number one inch, a trading light on those need a kind of reliable supplier for energy which in the us where like off countries produced on the other hand, the governors also need china's a major polyps. establish a new strategic banners in the region because also in a decent english our soviet union, the us israel alliance there. i saw only in advantage, i think that's the very reason why there's no stability ever since. of course, even china, joan, in given china's capacity or capability and also china's piece for development. strategizing will be a very positive element in the region and also where, how in my, in the long run stabilize the situation. there economically speaking, of course channels one by one road, initiate an effort will also kind of work right into the hands of the countries

over there who try to restructure the economy. so that is economy would not so be deep enough in the industry, but become more diversified and the more more balance in the future. so we know the saudis already have this to just notify a new searcy strategy. could you now, and of course, are china, sir. you know, a corporations, china can be very, very productive and the fruitful in this regard. well, ok, hundreds of millions of people from latin america through africa, through se, asia and russia and china may agree with what you're saying. but you know, in europe and the united states, quite apart from the fact that the saudis, the u. e. the middle east is routinely condemned over human rights issues. china is a routinely on the bbc and cnn, and other television nerve broadcasters, as a, as a grocer, human rights violator. of them all,

with concentration camps. i'm not sure quite how they argue the draws about the fact that the saudi arabia is the guardian of the holy places of his slum. whilst scheiner is supposed to simultaneously be anti muslim, it is the narrative last in europe and the united states. this narrative has seen farms number one, and only that is loose like the people who accuse china and other countries as the human rights violations looks like val. perfect. they don't have any problems. they don't have any violations of human rights, which is are so lee, long truth not choose if you had history all at present. those people who are accused china, i mean the people are united states or europe. they have a very bloody history of violation of human rights and the colonialism slavery system. and so force that unified on the leading people. lackey, nomic, america, united states, america and australia and the stuff like that is us history and human prison. we see that a lot of discriminations, a law violence, a lot of equality,

and the gap between region a poor and so i love of problems there too. i that is a 1st problem. second problem, of course, each i know like in reality, a lack in law, different countries. irrational, of course this countries is not permitted as a systems not perfect. there are rooms and needs to be improved dollars because thus when we're human being trying to do, we try to lead process. so a kind of a better future. that's not a problem. the problem is we're and we had a certain one that is a dollar standard. you cannot, you know, accused us, why are you a south says to be perk this thomas standard sandwich. hancock reading. laugh, why? and i the space and all those p was last curly credibility and become more and more emily, a minority, of course, this thing is unattractive. they look at it only 10 percent of the local population

on this side. so to some with our, my point is here, we as a human being one, not perfect over society. and then a republican system there are crops needs to be saw. there are improvement that we can, you know, a progress bar. this is law. yes, absolutely. nonsense. to say that i'm to walk one perfect. i'm the moral high ground. you all want me to become an always even even worse to apply a standard on those issues that we knew all of us and not in a candle more difficult and worse in situations, not this law is does. now, you know, the arguments, intellectual arguments used against what you said, usa then g o, they will say what you're engaged in there is, what about is them? and they're saying, well, we're not perfect. we know, i don't know, they've what overthrown 40 countries around the world in 50 years, their governments and their torturing the british or torturing julian, a sergeant london. we know all that,

but it's out worse somehow in the global south, at that is their standard or response, but isn't china losing the narrative? partly because it seems to be arguing as if there are rational actors arguing with rational actors as it were. i mean, it is, as you know, they've already said that china is the enemy. number one, they send warships into the south china sea and the they, we em, let's see. i mean that there, there are continuous remarks from the united states and my 6 in london, china is the single greatest priority very my 6 china seeks to distort public discourse. the efie i boss china is the biggest long term threat to our economic and national security. why does china behave so often in europe, in the united states, as if there are a, they're going to summer persuade. western capitals of their argument nice in that is very a ironic a now,

so that sometimes even lockable for people who stated a gun, shyness no more. i mean, of course, our lot of people here in washington and in the west in china is a number was read. and in that regard, china indeed seems to be a number. and, but on the other hand, we say that you, by the persons are by then said just a few weeks ago, united nations assembly is that when that is phase, as a nation, does nasty conflict with china when non kind of in a cold war, which china a se, corporation, because 3 sees by them. institution policy goes china, of course, no more is computation. number 2, of course, is confrontations to a number 3 is a corporation in the areas as they come on in common interests. you want him to use the c to so we sent for her to forces fighting against each other in washington dc and the in the west. in general. on the one hand, the shyness rise as a threat to them, we optimize. and on the other hand, these days, the necessity and of course are also

a need to work with china on the common challenges where human kinds are facing like climate change, learn non proliferation of nuclear weapons. and now of course, of the global financial stability and not also on china to our, to mediate or to, to bring an end with his body where you grin. so it is that kind of self contradictory elements or phenomena always say in the west, of course, china always carry on this piece for development strategies, not just china, just say that, but china is doing that. i've been doing this for 40 years. he, history, we know that he should never before has a major heart keep rising for 40 years without a single gunshot. be fired outside china. that's amazing. that's a fact. that's a reality. we know that all the code, all of the end of the code, all as so many crisis, all along the kosovo crisis, georgia crisis,

your credit crisis, shuler crisis or so and so forth. but they're also crisis in our street. the crisis in south china city, the crisis between china and the job, i'm over the army was in cockle, ireland, by one fact. everybody can see all the crisis will never united states in the west get a you bought or play a major, a new one. awesome, and not in the war. not a single exception. all those crises were china play some major. oh, no single come shot. us be fired in the past 20 years, professor one jim, i'll stop you that more from the director, the institute of the u. s. and pacific studies, and the shines national studies university after this break. ah ah, i leaving the city where the temporary attorneys,

3 big rehire already from the neighboring down would. you know, right. because the other down shapes haven't shopped of the trees. but in tiger, in the name of development, and in our 1st trip to become a catholic in like singapore, we are all going for our, the nation. i just covering all the grades we've gone b. so when you distract nature, it takes every they just, ah ah, ah ah,

welcome back to going on the ground. i am still here with professor one jing from china's shanghai international studies university. are there not cultural gunshots being fired all the time, making out that china is evil in any case and her china. i know it's had some kind of exercise after nancy pelosi visit to taiwan, which was contrary to actual u. s. foreign policy. in terms of recognition of taiwan as part of gina, gina just thought, well, we'll fire a few guns as a some sort of practice. this wile, 400 military u. s. base is in circle china, just on this trip. um, they're talking about the petro, you $1.00 and pricing oil in not in dollars. the atlantic council, others are trying to say, look, this isn't too big a deal. other countries have done it. of course, when other countries from the global south want to price oil in currencies other

than the dollar more than often not to their leaders have been assassinated. what do you think of the dangers for china and for saudi arabia, or for talking openly about pricing oil in currencies other than the dollar lead to use that to you is your suggest not to watch a cell number was a town, is your palace a visit to pile on white china as long as such are in a large military operations are exercised. iran, i want the island pie one actually is the largest ever since that vietnam will end it. of course, the 2nd issue is that we're chinese good. currently use chinese currencies are based on b and to pay for the oil or to as a price that the pay for the oil changed by a from saudis. the 1st issue on, of course, is a very simple fix united states. and here to what they say, one china policy in which they recognized the people's republic of china is that only legal representative. he legitimate representative of china. the united states

. never, ever really nice. taiwan. a sovereign state, a lottery god, the number's 3 person, u. s. government speaker, i was a congress, lucy with entire one with the military airplane, thus a very obvious violation of farmers all one china policy and also work that encourages cowling in the forces. i am to challenge shyness. armand, he and her integrity, of course, china as a major partners were not tolerate us. so that's why 10 launches huge military exercise as detailed. there was no one really cared about that time, you know, and really going on. you really want to use force to attack only need already lose chinese military forces are really enter the so called the 12 miles territory lie and the closest and my miles. and we don't see any american military over there. it's kind of strange. so that tells you exactly that china one piece not. ready or

a full on the pay for the full or full are you? i said, now do you feel blame the 1st one to play in the united states, trying to weapon nice little stars. try and punish ourselves for the most the use your students use a payment suit, tried a sancha against russia. if united states trying to use us dollars, which is like local currency bravo, when we're currently at a womanizer for political purpose, of course, the st. louis sheely message to anyone who use us dollars because they could be a link in the next wrong. this next one, good united states. i use dollars to bonds though. as number one, number 2, we all know that error says, whose other name, liquidity, of your honest, never be recovered. after all, yes, united states just keep pretty now the dollars with our e can the limit they called q u. c. conduct no limitation. in other words,

you know, says united states fire use, take full advantage of united star united states dollars. us a u. s. dollars a animal currency to local employer other countries including sony's and others. all of this, of course, paper strong infinity number one out the lady payment number clue to prevent or pre and be, you know, taking advantage by united states, especially when, when, when there's a shock dollars i've become so kind of the responses gave europe united states and i think that is truly understandable on political started and of course you can only on the ve. i mean, as for that military display, wasn't much covered in european capitals anyway, and in the united states. and you think those arguments will be persuasive to anthony blink. and samantha power, that whole edifice of the military industrial complex are when they have $400.00 basis circling china. they have proxies, arguably, in terms of south korea,

japan new zealand, australia, around china. they have warships, routinely, britain fans, warships routinely around there. meanwhile, those intellectual arguments are being made that all joiner is interested is mutual prosperity and progress. i do not see that there will be people in washington who say no, there has to be a red line here and they won't be able to buy oil in currencies other than the dollar from saudi arabia. oh and now it, it is a pity that people in washington dc. it will not make a final choir in saudi is a sovereign state. so so so's chinese. the decision made by china. saudis, if the 2 countries decided they want to have a sunday's change, and nobody really kind of in and awful or this is in the national community that everybody has a park in it. it is not a kind of

a wants to listen to the united states on this. yes. a, he's a hedge mom, but her to sonics and the subject line one and number one. and number 2, i said this is also good for the regional stability in total self economic development and political stability loss goes and, and, and i think that he's not a kind of a actually, and i know under my people's interest for the self interest is, will actually be good for everyone and ask for, you know, the alliance and so for so forth. first, i think that if you, you one have a red line won't prevent us to not across it. you have to define what your red line really is. the problem is that a lot of issues united states is a play the game most strategic ambiguity. ready so that in the counter, the maximum is of flexibility and the minimize, the so called commitment fire, if you play the game of strategic and b here he of course, others have also

a kind of flexibility to player on. i said that's a fair again. but you don't believe that those are government in the arab world that are doing deals with china or in any danger. sadie arabia the u. e, where i was speaking to you from, for trying to enter this multi polar. well, because as you know, for decades, they have been seen in washington as a compliant states with us policy. yes, of course, there is a risk and i think the people, you know, rather countries are leaders, they are now very rational and very wise, once again again to prove in the dean, making a very rational decisions. i think i fully understand maybe better than you and me about what the risks really are. they have to do this because of, you know, the closing off know a straight one. and 2 is saying that united states not only want to dominate, dominate or monopolize in the areas of security and make long element the one. also

one who establish a dominance in the energy market. because if you go out of those on a line that send energy to europe from russia, then they, you have to, you know, depend on the energy from, from great britain, norway, in the united states, in other one way the united states trying to monopolize the supply and demand or other energy market, but which of course is very much a fundamental. so we'll talk about a fundamental circular got the gulf countries because they are really agree, said lou, it's good and then use your money to price my products. that's fine. but if you want to determine a dominant, we should buyers combine our oil a wish, which you know, which country i can supply in my product. that is a little too much. i think that's a fundamental reason for salaries to,

to gave alco sherlow to, to buy the orange prison by don't visit there because they one the sure, the other one who make a decision that a lot of the site, you know, which countries are one, the supply energy, at what price they want to supply. and at one time, at what speed, at one volumes there was they didn't know that one united states to establish a money. this car is a increasing gap between strategic desire of united states and is a strategy kimberly the scar is that even bigger as you know. as a result, we see that it was in the united states and this is alice want to do cannot match our of, of the, you know, to want to see actually able to do. and of course, countries in the iraq countries also see this. this is a weakness that they can take advantage of an exam. this cannot act peter strategy,

desire, and strategy ability. dan has, has a low mine the study region and the d. r. i sin when they're trying to strengthen all the standards, their corporation, a relationship with china is not for you know, gas but also to kind of achieve a come on a political. ready and, and monica stability, which is managed by the 90 space in the past. the kids does it matter that that analysis is not even understood as a dimension in which to contextualize walden politics in western media? does it even matter that the, the a circle propaganda or on the nation media speaks of the international community being against china, being against russia, being against that famous meeting between she didn't bring,

and the vladimir putin in the, in february where china is willing to work with russia to play a leading role in demonstrating the responsibility of major power is what she agent being said, minimized. that kind of news are arguably in nature, nature, media. but what is being emphasized is china is turning against russia and her apparently, joiner is or i don't know, threatening bricks, i suppose to speak, legation, linda, he's some issues in the erosion, the china, regarding this war going like your career. and i don't now say that the 2 countries stand exact on the same page, but providence can be in the should be saw, so communications. and that because a to congress do have a very solid common ground based on number law. they have a similar concerns in terms of national security. they also have our economies to economy, so really competency with each other. that's why china is very firmly refused to

join the sanctions against washer. and also china refer. ready to condemn so called russia question, colon into you, chris, have you said that i sent china does have song also has uncommon interest was less . and for this with the me, i tried to demonize shine. now as i was 3 kind of situations where i could distinguish carefully, number one, cause that even lawrence, those people may never be to chime over all the facts, also have this kind of conscious or subconscious prejudice against china or chinese people as a nation. in other words, they need to be educate. a 2nd kind of course is those who are very has a very, you know, you will with well, again it's janet they, they do not see china doing good. there. see china. you mentioned that as a me as a threat the one china to go down this and so forth. another. ready the take on

very hostile appellation or attitude against can i just can i just ask you finally, of course the pledge to support core interest seen as ukraine anti one made between be made with put in and she gin ping is seen in the west quite differently. especially with the number increased amount of import sation of energy resources from russia, from china. do you think the west will so called west will be successful in cleaving apart this alliance between moscow and bay ging using ukraine as a furnace? almost a china and russia never get into a kind of our lives in terms of west our lives. they use a partnership, strategic partnership. of course, he's, which will send him to 2 separate russia into china use in the context of you. why? because of the 2 countries, like i said, a do have a strong come interest. and also we also know is not only china,

other countries like south africa, pre sale. and you know, of course, all those countries refused to join the sanction consortia. as a matter of fact, you come every one of them, only about 40 countries, joined the central british roger, which means this minority. so i say that your groom ball is a tragedy which finally bria and where peaceful the of course us know, mean all those countries have to start with united states in west against washing because there is a reason for this will i think from china on the view, the fundamental reason for this was the code or mentality and the code will behavior. i lost you state of knowledge of this kind of total mentality and behavior. we're going to have more on the rest one, ging, thank you. and that's it for the show. will be back next week with another brand new episode, but until then you can still keep in touch by law social media if it's not centered in your country, but you can always head to our channel going on the grantee on rebel dot com to

watch you handle that sense of going underground. see very soon. hm. blue a money land money with

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when you bought when you get on with the ground up, i mean the the, the, the, the. 2 victor boot the russian army dealer who had been incarcerated in one of the highest security penitentiaries in the united states for the last 12 years is now home with his family after being exchanged for american w. n. b. a star, brittany greiner. she had been imprisoned in russia after being convicted on drug charges. in a handful of interviews, boot seems like a normal russian citizen, not somebody who has seen the worst of what the american prison system has to offer . today we'll talk about what the experience was like for him. i'm john kerry.