shiny or just when you bought it, when you tell me what's the brown that up i mean the the the the, the. 2 victor boot the russian arms dealer who had been incarcerated in one of the highest security penitentiaries in the united states for the last 12 years is now home with his family after being exchanged for american w. n. b. a star, brittany greiner. she had been imprisoned in russia after being convicted on drug charges. in a handful of interviews, boot seems like a normal russian citizen, not somebody who has seen the worst of what the american prison system has to offer . today we'll talk about what the experience was like for him. i'm john kerry aku

and you're watching the whistleblowers. ah, the. 2 when i was at the cia in the early part of the last decade, victor boot was one of the agencies top targets the cia, the f, b i and interpol searched for food all over the world. they accused him of being in arms dealer and one of the most dangerous men on the planet. boot was finally found in thailand where he was arrested and extradited to the united states. after being convicted on a myriad of charges, he was sent to the notorious communications management unit at the us penitentiary in marian illinois until the creation of the so called super max prison at florence, colorado. marion was the toughest prison in america. some of the country's most dangerous and most high profile prisoners were kept there. and even then, the communications management unit, or c new was set up to keep the most dangerous of the most dangerous prisoners,

silent away from the press away from their friends, their family members, and even their own attorneys. this is of course, ridiculous. the cm use are used mainly to silence prisoners who are not at all dangerous, but they could be embarrassing to the federal bureau of prisons because they have access to the media. or because they know something that could embarrass the american government. we'll talk about these notorious cm use with dina. got his felt the wife of cmu, prisoner, marty, got his felt, marty served some of his time in the same communications management unit as victor boot and with famed drone whistleblower daniel hale. why is marty in prison? why does the u. s. government view him as a dangerous prisoner? it's because he initiated a computer denial of service attack on a hospital in boston after the hospital had forcibly taken a sick young girl from her parents. and falsely accused them of abuse. the

government's hypocrisy is incredible. here. dana, welcome to the show. he, dan. good to see you. thank you for having me. good to see you. dana dana, i've known you for a long time and we've talked about marty's case many, many times. even given my familiarity with his case, i'm just still as shocked now as i was when i 1st learned that marty was in a c. m. u. and i'm baffled over the bureau of prisons decision to try and silence him and people like him. marty was just recently transferred from the c m u in marion back to the countries other cmu in terra haute, indiana. that's the prison that also houses the federal death row. i want to begin by having you described to our viewers what daily life is like for marty in a c, m. u i a c m u is different than the rest of the bureaus. prisons. in that i learned his ability to speak with attorneys.

and what it's like right now, as attorneys can even get legal calls with him. now a significantly delayed he can't get any phone calls. it's usually to 15 minute call that week. i think a lot of it is just keeping them in a small unit of about 70 people in the larger jail for him and he's a jailhouse lawyer. so i think he's busy with the time. right. i can certainly understand the need for a cmu for let's say terrorists, you want one terrorists to be on the phone, coordinating other terrorist attacks with, you know, other terrorists, but as often is not, that's not who's in the c amuse. many of the prisoners are people like marty, or drone whistleblower daniel hale or victor boot. it's meant as yet an additional layer of punishment for people whom the government just doesn't like. marty has

fought his placement in a c. m. u for years. tell us about that struggle and how it's played out so far. in your introduction, you've talked about justina case and it was just a protest against bad conditions. there was a rope life on the line and he in a way that didn't harm any patients that the jury found. i was able to return her to her family after about 13 months. horrible treatment that would qualify as torture under the. ready when convention, if you the thing in the hospital, boston childrens hospital is part of the harvard network, it receives the most federal funding of any pediatric teaching hospital. and so when you anger harvard in boston, i think marty is a senior systems engineer. he's never had any trouble with the law. and then to put him in a c, m. u when they're like real bad people in regular jails,

is that like crazy? there have to be a designation from i think i forget the some kind of them director in the b o. p has to sign off on it. they don't give any reasons and you can challenge it a lot with with complain and it doesn't really go anywhere. why a p and c m u. that's an excellent question. this is just guessing they don't. they don't tell you, but marty has not has not let their obese and their mis treatment of prisoners and disrespect for the lock go and noticed. he's published, scathing articles in the intercept r t. rub state and a number of others. i think that this is a way to violence people. i think that you see a lot of politically sensitive cases like daniel hale and schafer,

cox than dog reynolds. this is the cmu is, is like a blast site is where the government will put people that they want to silence and it's actually crazy that it even exist. you would think biden would have wanted to do right by the american citizen reno after few rally hard again. truck but trump actually put in the 1st step back. and now the 1st step act is not being honored. not being respected. marty. okay. yeah, no, i'm agreeing with you. the 1st step back hasn't been respected. we've not seen reforms coming out of the biden administration, and i'll tell you something else that just happened. it happened in the, in the very 1st week of december. and that is the warden of the women's prison at dublin, california was convicted on 13 different counts of,

of raping female prisoners. well that's someone who's too dangerous to live among the public. if someone is too dangerous to be on the street, he's not in a c, m u, he's perfectly free to walk around his prison and go outside and exercise and talk to the media and talk to his lawyers and talk to his family and do anything he wants so really i think your point is well taken. if they want to silence you, if they want to punish you, if they want to make your time in prison, more difficult because they have what you did or who you are. that's when they put you in a c. m. you? yeah, i wanted to mention that marty's judge judge, nathaniel horton is, is tied in with the adoption agency that would work on getting just donated into another family home. i know there's financial ties from the judge to the

case and even when he was after accused, he still wouldn't do it. so there's definitely animosity between the judge towards marty. i know you're absolutely right and we've spoken about this, the number of times going through the criminal justice system up close has been one of the biggest rude awakening that you can imagine in terms of, you know, a lot of things turn out to just be cardboard and there's nothing behind in terms of you know, you go to groups and look, there is an legal system. and you say like here's the case, am i right? or am i wrong? and it just turns out the being right doesn't matter. the way that i found the things work are with social pressure and with media attention, it is way more powerful than with the law is going to do for you. and we see that i

think many, many times it's been hard to swallow. but what do you know when i was in prison after i blew the whistle on the ca torture program, i was placed in something called a modified c, a c m u. this was after i wrote an open letter that was picked up by almost every media outlet in the united states. i later did a freedom of information act request on myself with the bureau of prisons and in return i received a document that the prison warden had sent to all jail staff the week before i arrived in very large letters. it said caution. inmate has access to the media. as a result of all my ridiculous, right? all my phone calls were monitored as they took place. my incoming and outgoing emails were monitored and were subject to a 5 day delay. and even my incoming and outgoing mail was opened and photocopied before either being given to me or being sent out. what marty and victor boot and

daniel hale and others are going through. ready is even worse than that. tell us about the limits of contact that marty has and what he's done to hold the bureau of prisons accountable for its actions. good question. sorry to hear that that happened to you that is afraid of the cmu taking place outside of the those are all things that sound familiar? i mean marty's attorney literally can't reach him. they will. they will not allow him to have attorney calls. they say, unless there's an impending court deadline, but it's none of their business if a lawyer and i didn't want to speak about the case and next steps regardless ending that immediate deadline. there's other people like donald rental who doesn't get

through to congressman. she was at marty as well to media. it's just blocks. everything like you said is called listen to in real time. all mail is saved. there's you know, when you gone to jail, you don't lose your right. that's right. and it seems like you do. unfortunately, it's, it's tough, you know, in september 2021 r t r t wrote an article about him. and i shared a clip of media call habits in, in a q, marty, of trying to conspire to violated a 3rd party or which means i guess the 3rd party can't be involved actually with this. and you can have a 3rd party on the call. so it can only be me and him,

it can't be 2 people and him and they ended up taking away his phone and his email from september 2021 to august 2020, you know, and they had him in solitary confinement for a lot of the 1st few months it's, it's, it's like it's just one of those things like, you know, obviously we're happy that he's taking action with foreign prisoners. but like, what about the people at home like weird cancer? we're giving the same thing that the penal colony are doing. i hate to say it, but it's, it's just a really scary situation and it seems it feel so unfair and i feel very disenfranchised. you know, just as an aside, dana after victor boot was, was sent back to russia and britney griner was brought back to the united states.

there were articles in the u. s. press talking about the so called penal colony that, that brittany griner had been sent to and they were saying, oh my god, it's so terrible they make or work for almost nothing and the food is terrible and there's no medical care. and i wrote an article, i dashed it off, and i said, clearly none of these american journalists have ever seen the inside of an american prison. because what they're describing is an american prison. we have no right to complain about prisons anywhere else when ours don't even meet the most basic level of human rights. that's just me. people and people go out to the black office should not trust and i can't agree with you more or throw the stones a fixer glass. how 1st? yes, exactly. do you know? yes, spoken to 2 countless attorneys activists elected officials. has anybody been able

to explain to you how the bureau of prisons has gotten away with using these c m use as a weapon to silence? how high profile prisoners? how is the b o. p. able to use these units so unethically without their being any follow? yeah, that's a great question. i mean, there's been a number of hearing in front of congress by the director of the you know, go, they make a show of there. they do a little recording that they can put online, but the b p. 's played by controversy just horrible thing after horrible thing and nothing ever really seems to change. i don't know if it's that i, i, it's hard to explain. i mean, this is something i've been re watching the congressional hearings on the troubled teen industry, which is

a pro not necessarily affiliated, but there are programs across the country that try to help which tough love trouble use it. right. so it's like right treatment facilities like that. and in one of the scenes, the head of the geo, the government accountability office, gregory, one of the congress, people asked them like, why are the people in jail like for what they're dealing with as i don't know. and i think it ties back to what we were saying before in that like it's the wild west out here like rules laws. it just doesn't matter. like you any wouldn't know it. you really wouldn't know it until you've gone through it. i do not think that the media that just your, your everyday experience would let you know. you know,

when i feed people saying like you have your day in court as in like that, that's enough to prove whether you're innocent or guilty. it's like, oh my god, that is the most simplified version when that 1st graders it's, it's so different than you think it is it right and wrong becomes meaningless. it becomes what's effective and what's not. yes, we are speaking with dana, god is spelled about conditions inside the u. s. bureau of prisons, notorious communications management units. we're going to take a short break and come right back with more. so stay tuned. ah. 2 ah, ah, eileen, the city where the temporary journey,

3 degree higher already from the neighboring town. you know, right? because the i big down shapes haven't shopped of the trees, but didn't type got in the name of development. any of our 1st ship to become. i've got to get like a single board. we are all going for i've been nation then. just covering all the greens we've gone. so when you distract nature, it takes every danger. ah, what are you crazy? yes. or to come up with my friend. but i was go, i wasn't able to say for anyone. i good laughing

i that's wilson. 2030 god. which really in my way to make me start talking to willy winner for i am happy that thrown it fine is willy little too. you can go to sleep. mamma may become my new friend. the one was love, gun, a boy or was his own stay alive. it was they mixed with me. if i'm not crazy enough, i'm not gonna make it. oh

. 2 well, come back to the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry. aku we're speaking with dina got his feld, the wife of whistleblower. marty, got his feld about conditions inside the notorious communications management unit at the u. s. penitentiary in marion illinois. this is the prison where russian prisoner, victor boot, was held for years. dana's husband marty also was incarcerated there and was recently moved to an even worse prison at terra haute, indiana dana, thanks again for being with us. oh, john, i'm uncle. how are you? it's a beautiful me that you have. thank you. i rather liking. i think they've done a great job here now. thank you. yeah. dana, um, i know how hard it is for prisoners inside the cmu to communicate with one another . and when i've communicated with marty, i've always been very careful not to say tell daniel hale that i said hello or tell somebody else that i said hello. has marty said anything to you over the last year

or so about victor booty and his conditions inside the marion c. m u? yes, marty has spoken about victor booth. he hasn't referenced him by name. but when he does the phrase, the, your asian theater was pretty quick. things pick up. i'm in the brittany griner. steph, yeah. actually at the time that marty was telling me about this, when they were considering getting the prisoner swap. marty mentioned that victor had a really bad rash on his body and also a problem with his eye and he's been denied medical care. and marty was wondering if that was biden's way of putting pressure on the situation to forces swap. i. i think eventually it is rash cleared up. i'm actually not totally,

but i do me a couple of months ago. i've heard from friends who have served times. i'm sorry, go right ahead please. no, i brought that to the attention of numerous media people, but nobody oh that's, that's a story in and of itself. here in the u. s. know that happens all the time. yeah. stuff like that. wow. friends of mine who have served time in c. m. use say that the cells are very, very small. 2 by 3 meters. everything's made of either concrete or steel, including the bed. the beds are made of concrete. and the prisoners are kept there either $23.00 or 24 hours a day. a couple of times a week, they're allowed to exercise for one hour, essentially just walking in circles in a cage that happens to be outside. they're allowed one or 2 short showers a week all while a guard is watching them. and marty has a terrible experience with that. they're rarely allowed to speak to loved ones and

attorneys. tell us about all that. how often can you speak with marty? and have you actually seen him since he was incarcerated? i'll start with that last question. the last time i saw marty was january 2019 the day at the sentencing. and after that shortly after that he was transferred to the shoe which is stands for an segregating housing unit, which is just pregnancy for solitary. and m. c. c. new york. for a couple of months and then he went to the cmu and the terre haute in terra haute, indiana, and then t u. s. p marion marion illinois. back out to indiana. i have not seen him. i just just called no visit and before that i had seen him for 5 days during his

trial and i would go up to new york to visit him at m. c. c. new york. on the weekend. a lot of you are, i don't know if you recognize names, but a lot of these are profile jails. help they help unit bomber the sci terra haute is william. there's always yeah, a lot of the conditions that you described just now. definitely sound like the like the segregated housing unit like solitary at the f. b. i tara ho, you know, not only that, but the heaters and if they don't have proper ventilation during the summer, they call it the burrito cooker because you can travel breed on the floor and cook and it's so punitive it's,

it's so terrible and not to mention the bugs and wrote in the infestation and perhaps most importantly, the water, the water is not suitable. it will run the toilet like it was the things like, it's not stuff that you should be thing. and they put it in there for now long. just the amount of time that he spent in solitary been so concerning. you know, like for me why one of one of the things that really finally landed on me in the troubled teen industry, that it's not how bad it is, is when we stop. we watch the video called to watching the kids. and they described, one of the fathers described being helped a little room, was just a bucket and just scraping things into the walls. and for me,

solitary has always been really scary. and that way, like one of my biggest fears and have to like, face to face with knowing someone that you can and can't stop caring about that. it is really scary, especially when it's for months at a time and, and especially for helping a girl like just being appellate for i know he was based on penalty was based on the amount that they had to pay to happy. i come right back on mine right now. and the whole thing is just so frustrating and the amount of people that this is happening to is is unbelievable. it makes me feel like, like, should i stay like, should i do i stay and fight or do i just leave the country because it's not worth it anymore. right. and i think everybody answer that question for themselves, but i can't believe we're treating people like this. thank you to our guest,

dana, god has failed and the best of luck to her husband, marty, got his felt and thank you to our viewers for joining us today. try to keep in mind that we all have a role to play in situations like this. the true measure of our own character is how we treat the poor, the disavowed the accused, the incarcerated, and the condemned. we're all implicated when we allow other people to be mistreated . let's make sure that our friends and families all understand that. i'm john kerry . aku, thanks for joining us for another edition of the whistleblowers. we'll see you next time. ah. 2 2 2 ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we

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