i remember as an indian doctor, they came in and looked and there's no medical reason lawyers you should be allowed to find something to believe. john story is a story of ho mystery. victory and whatever i can do to help him i went to ah, victor boot the russian army dealer who had been incarcerated in one of the highest security penitentiaries in the united states for the last 12 years is now home with his family after being exchanged for american, w and b, a star, brittany griner. she had been imprisoned in russia after being convicted on drug charges. in a handful of interviews, boots seems like a normal russian citizen, not somebody who has seen the worst of what the american prison system has to offer . today we'll talk about what the experience was like for him. i'm john kerry aku.

and you're watching the whistle blowers. ah, when i was at the cia in the early part of the last decade, victor boot was one of the agencies top targets the cia, the f, b i and interpol searched for boot all over the world. they accused him of being in arms dealer and one of the most dangerous men on the planet. boot was finally found in thailand where he was arrested and extradited to the united states. after being convicted on a myriad of charges, he was sent to the notorious communications management unit at the u. s. penitentiary in marian illinois until the creation of the so called super max prison at florence, colorado. marion was the toughest prison in america. some of the country's most dangerous and most high profile prisoners were kept there. and even then the communications management unit or cmu was set up to keep the most dangerous of the

most dangerous prisoners silent away from the press away from their friends, their family members and even their own attorneys. this is of course, ridiculous. the cm use are used mainly to silence prisoners who are not at all dangerous, but they could be embarrassing to the federal bureau of prisons because they have access to the media. or because they know something that could embarrass the american government. we'll talk about these notorious c m. use with dina. got his felt the wife of cmu, prisoner, marty, got his felt. marty served some of his time in the same communications management unit as victor boot and with famed drone whistleblower daniel hale. why is marty in prison? why does the u. s. government view him as a dangerous prisoner? it's because he initiated a computer denial of service attack on a hospital in boston after the hospital had forcibly taken a sick young girl from her parents. and falsely accused them of abuse. the

government's hypocrisy is incredible. here. dana, welcome to the show. you dan. good to see you. thank you for having me. good to see you, dana dana, i've known you for a long time and we've talked about marty's case. many, many times, even given my familiarity with his case. i'm just still as shocked now as i was when i 1st learned that marty was in a c, m. u. and i'm baffled over the bureau of prisons decision to try and silence him. and people like him, marty was just recently transferred from the c, m. u in marion back to the countries other cmu in terra haute, indiana. that's the prison that also houses the federal death row. i want to begin by having you described to our viewers what daily life is like for marty in a c, m. u i a c m u is different than the rest of the bureaus. prisons. in that it linux his ability to speak with attorneys.

and what it's like right now is attorneys can even get legal calls with him. now a significantly delayed he can't get many phone calls. it's usually to 15 minute calls that week. i think a lot of it is just keeping them can in a small unit is about 70 people in the larger jail for him and he's a jailhouse lawyer. so i think he's busy with the time. right. i can certainly understand the need for a cmu for let's say terrorists you want want terrorists to be on the phone, coordinating other terrorist attacks with, you know, other terrorists, but as often as not that's not who's in the c amuse. many of the prisoners are people like marty or drug whistleblower daniel hale or victor boot. it's meant as yet an additional layer of punishment for people whom the government just doesn't

like. marty has fought his placement in a c. m. u for years. tell us about that struggle and how it's played out so far. in your introduction, you've talked about justina case and it was just a protest against bad conditions. there was a rope life on the line and he in a way that didn't harm any patients that the jury found. i was able to return her to her family after about 13 months of horrible treatment that would qualify as torture under the. ready when convention, if you the thing in the hospital, boston childrens hospital is part of the harvard network, it receives the most federal funding of any pediatric teaching hospital. and so when you anger harvard in boston, i think south marty is a senior system engineer. he's never had any trouble with the law. and then to put him in a c, m. u when they're like real bad people in regular jails is actually crazy.

there has to be a designation from i think i forget the some kind of them director in the b o. p has to sign off on it. they don't give any reasons and you can challenge it a lot with with complaints and it doesn't really go anywhere. why a p and c m u. that's an excellent question. this is just guessing they don't. they don't tell you, but marty has not has not let their abuse and their mis treatment of prisoners and disrespect for the lock go and noticed. he's published and scathing articles in the intercept r t rub state and a number of others. i think that this is a way to violence people. i think that you see a lot of politically sensitive cases like daniel hale and shaffer cox and dr.

reynolds, this is the cmu is, is like a blast site is where the government will put people that they want to silence. it's actually crazy that it even exist. you would think biden would have wanted to do right by the american citizen reno after the rally. hard again, truck but trump actually put in the 1st step act. and now the 1st step act is not being honored, not being respected. marty. okay. yeah, no, i'm agreeing with you. the 1st step back hasn't been respected. we've not seen reforms coming out of the biden administration, and i'll tell you something else that just happened. it happened in the, in the very 1st week of december. and that is the warden of the women's prison at dublin. california was convicted on 13 different counts of,

of raping female prisoners. well that's someone who's too dangerous to live among the public. if someone is too dangerous to be on the street, he's not in a c, m. u. he's perfectly free to walk around his prison and go outside and exercise and talk to the media and talk to his lawyers and talk to his family and do anything he wants. so really, i think your point is well taken. if they want to silence you, if they want to punish you, if they want to make your time in prison, more difficult because they have what you did or who you are. that's when they put you in a c. m, you? yeah, i wanted to mention that marty's judge judge, nathaniel gorton is, is tied in with the adoption agency that would work on getting just donated into another family. oh my god. so there's financial ties from the judge to the

case. and even when he was asked or accuse, he still wouldn't do it. so there is definitely animosity between the judge towards marty. i know you're absolutely right, and we've spoken about this a number of times going through the criminal justice system up close has been one of the biggest rude awakening that you can imagine in terms of, you know, a lot of things turn out to just be cardboard and there's nothing behind in terms of you know, you go to groups and what periods and legal system and you say like, here's the case, am i right? or am i wrong? and it just turns out to be right doesn't matter. the way that i've found the things work are with social pressure and with media attention, it is way more powerful than with a. ready lot going to do for you and we see that i think many,

many times its been hard to swallow. but in the day when i was in prison, after i blew the whistle on the ca torture program, i was placed in something called a modified c, a c m u. this was after i wrote an open letter that was picked up by almost every media outlet in the united states. i later did a freedom of information act request on myself with the bureau of prisons and in return i received a document that the prison warden had sent to all jail staff the week before i arrived in very large letters. it said caution. inmate has access to the media. as a result of all my ridiculous, right? all my phone calls were monitored as they took place. my incoming and outgoing emails were monitored and were subject to a 5 day delay. and even my incoming and outgoing mail was opened and photocopied before either being given to me or being sent out. what marty and victor boot and

daniel hale and others are going through. ready is even worse than that. tell us about the limits of contact that marty has and what he's done to hold the bureau of prisons accountable for its actions. good question. sorry to hear that that happened to you that is afraid of the cmu taking place outside of the sea. and those are all things that sound familiar. i mean marty's attorney literally can't reach him, they will the prison will not allow him to have attorney calls. they say, unless there's an impending court deadline, but it's none of their business. if a lawyer and i want to speak about the case and next steps regardless ending that immediate deadline. there's other people like donald rentals, who's over i think,

get through to congressmen. she was marty as well to media. it's just blocked. everything like you said is calls i listen to in real time. all mail is saved. there's you know, when you go into jail, you don't lose your right. that's right. and it seems like you do. unfortunately, it's, it's tough, you know, in september 2021 r t r t wrote an article about him. and i shared the media call i had with him, and they accused marty of trying to conspire. he violated a 3rd party or which means, i guess a 3rd party you can't be involved actually with this. and you can have a 3rd party on the call. so it can only be me and him,

it can't be 2 people and him and they ended up taking away his phone and his e mail from september 2021 to august 2020, you know, bill and they had him in solitary confinement for a lot of the 1st few months it's, it's, it's like it's just one of those things like, you know, obviously we're happy that he's taking action with foreign prisoners. but like, what about the people at home like weird cancer? we're getting the same thing that the penal colonies are doing. i hate to say it, but it's it's just a really scary situation and seen it feel so unfair and i feel very different franchise. you know, just as an aside, dana after victor boot was, was sent back to russia and brittany griner was brought back to the united states.

there were articles in the u. s. press talking about the so called penal colony that, that brittany griner had been sent to and they were saying, oh my god, it's so terrible they make her work for almost nothing and the food is terrible and there's no medical care. and i wrote an article, i dashed it off, and i said, clearly none of these american journalists have ever seen the inside of an american prison. because what they're describing is an american prison. we have no right to complain about prisons anywhere else when ours don't even meet the most basic level of human rights. that's just me. people and people go out past this should not trust and i can agree with you more or throw the stones fixer black. how 1st? yes, exactly. do you know? yes,

spoken to 2 countless attorneys activists elected officials. has anybody been able to explain to you how the bureau of prisons has gotten away with using these c. m. use as a weapon to silence? how high profile prisoners? how is the b o p able to use these units so unethically without their being any follow? yeah, that's a great question. i mean, there's been a number of hearings in front of congress by the director of the you know, go, they make a show of it. they do a little recording that they can put online. but the b o. p. 's played by controversy just horrible thing after horrible thing and nothing ever really seems to change. i don't know if it's that it's hard to explain. i mean, this is something i've been re watching the congressional hearings on the troubled teen industry, which is

a pro not necessarily affiliated, but there are programs across the country that try to help which can love trouble views. so it's like right treatment facilities like that. and, and one of the themes, the head of the geo, the government accountability office, gregory, one of the congress, people asked them like, why are these people in general, like for what they're doing as i don't know. and i think it ties back to what we were saying before and that like it's the wild west out here like rules laws. it just doesn't matter. like and you in, you wouldn't know way you really wouldn't know it until you've gone through it. i do not think that the media and just your, your everyday experience with let you know, you know,

when i feed people saying like you have your day in court as in like that's, that's enough to prove whether you're innocent or guilty. it's like, oh my god, that is the most simplified version when that 1st graders it's, it's so different than you think it is it right and wrong becomes meaningless. it becomes what effective and what not. yes, we are speaking with dana, god is spelled about conditions inside the u. s. bureau of prisons, notorious communications management units. we're going to take a short break and come right back with more. so stay tuned. ah . 2 2 ah ah, what are you crazy?

yes. or to columbia? i lost most of my friends. but i was broken. i wasn't able to save anyone. i get nothing in that. i met wilson, 2030 and god. but really in my way to make me start talking to willy waiting for me to them. i'm happy that i'm to find is really little so you can go to sleep. mom i had become my new friend. the one was love gonna die or i was he is going to stay alive. it was they next to me.

if i'm not crazy enough. i'm not gonna make it o, i leave the las city when the temporary attorneys, 3 degree higher already from the neighboring town. would you know, right? because i think townships haven't shopped of the trees, but in taca, in the name of development, any of our 1st ship to become, ask african like singapore, we are all going for out of the nation just covering all the green sweet company. so when you distract nature, it takes every they just ah

ah, welcome back to the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry. aku, we're speaking with. dana got his feld, the wife of whistleblower. marty, got his spelled about conditions inside the notorious communications management unit at the u. s. penitentiary in marion illinois. this is the prison where russian prisoner, victor boot, was held for years. dana's husband marty also was incarcerated there and was recently moved to an even worse prison at terre haute indiana. dana, thanks again for being with us. oh john and uncle, how are you? it's a beautiful, nice that you have. thank you. i rather like it. i think they've done a great job here now. thank you. yeah, dana, i know how hard it is for prisoners inside a c. m. u to communicate with one another. and when i've communicated with marty, i've always been very careful not to say tell daniel hale that i said hello or tell

somebody else that i said hello. has marty said anything to you over the last year or so about victor? boot and his conditions inside the marion cmu. yes, marty has spoken about victor boot. he hasn't referenced him by name. but when he does the phrase the your asian theater was pretty quick. things pick up. i'm in the brittany griner. steph? yeah. actually at the time that marty was telling me about this, when they were considering getting the prisoner swap, marty mentioned that victor had a really bad rash on his body and also a problem with his eye. and he was being denied medical care. and marty was wondering if that was biden's way of putting pressure on the situation to force a swap. i. i think eventually it is rash cleared up. i'm actually not totally,

but i give me a couple of months ago i've heard from friends who have served times. i'm sorry, go right ahead please. no, i brought that to the attention of numerous media people, but nobody oh that's, that's a story in and of itself. here in the u. s. no, that happens all the time. yeah. stuff like that. wow. friends of mine who have served time in c. m. use say that the cells are very, very small. 2 by 3 meters. everything's made of either concrete or steel, including the bed. the beds are made of concrete, and the prisoners are kept there either $23.00 or 24 hours a day. a couple times a week. they're allowed to exercise for one hour, essentially just walking in circles in a cage that happens to be outside. they're allowed one or 2 short showers

a week all while a guard is watching them. and marty has a terrible experience with that. they're rarely allowed to speak to loved ones and attorneys. tell us about all that. how often can you speak with marty and have you actually seen him since he was incarcerated? i'll start with that last question. the last time i saw mar. ready was january 2019 the day of his sentencing. and after that shortly after that he was transferred to the shoe which is stands for an segregating housing unit, which is just pregnancy for solitary. and m c. c, new york for a couple of months and then he went to the cmu and the terre haute in terra haute, indiana. and then 2, u. s. p. marion marion, illinois, outage, indiana. i have not seen him. i just just called no visit.

and before that, i had seen him for 5 days during his trial, and i would go up to new york to visit him at m. c. c, new york. on the week, a lot of you are, i don't know if you recognize names, but a lot of these are profile jails. help they help unit bomber the sci terra haute is really there's always yeah, a lot of the conditions that you described just now. definitely sound like the like the segregated housing unit like solitary at the sci terra ho. you know, not only that, but the heaters and if they don't have proper ventilation during the summer, they call it the burrito cooker because you can travel breed on the floor and cook

it's. it's so punitive it's so terrible and not to mention the bugs and wrote in the infestation. and perhaps most importantly, the water, the water is non suitable or rough. the toilet like it was the things like, it's not stuff that you should be doing. and they've put in there for now long just the amount of time that he spent in solitary and so concerning. you know, like for me why one of one of the things that really finally landed on me in the troubled teen industry, that it's not how bad it is, is when we stop. we watched a video called, she's watching the kids and they described one of the father's describe his buttons being helped a little room with just

a bucket and just scraping things into the walls. and for me, solitary has always been really scary. and that way, like one of my biggest fears, and i have to like face to face with knowing someone that you can and can't stop caring about it is really scary, especially when it's for months at a time and, and especially for helping a girl like just being appellate for penalty was based on the penalty was based on the amount that they had to pay to happy. i come right back on mine right now. and the whole thing is just so frustrating in the amount of people that this is happening to is, is unbelievable. it makes me feel like, like, should i stay like, should i do i stay and fight or do i just leave the country because it's not worth it anymore. right. and i think everybody answer that question for themselves. but i,

i, i can't believe we're treating people like this. thank you to our guest, dana, god has failed, and the best of luck to her husband, marty, got his felt and thank you to our viewers for joining us today. try to keep in mind that we all have a role to play in situations like this. the true measure of our own character is how we treat the poor, the disavowed the accused, the incarcerated, and the condemned. we are all implicated when we allow other people to be mistreated. let's make sure that our friends and families all understand that. i'm john kerry. aku, thanks for joining us for another edition of the whistleblowers. we'll see you next time. ah. 2 2 no, we look forward to talking to you. oh, that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human

beings, except where such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence at that point obviously is too great trust, rather than fear. i would like to take on various job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with obama protect home existence with i've actually found safety and embrace of naziism as a job. all of a sudden you're placed in a position where i can defend myself. now, i don't have to be afraid any more. on one hand, i'm terrified that they're going to find out i'm jewish, but on the other, i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and her st. john, they're going to hurt one guy hunched. me. hi my,

here are some of the show now in the rest. and the punch is just started flying. and somebody shouted out, died, you boy died. and at that point i knew they're stuck back. remember, had an indian doctor, they came in and looked and said, there is no medical reason why you should be alive. you to find something to believe. john story is a story of how the story of victory and whatever i can do to help him. i would

the fluid and we had that attack from the dead or just from the some slamming groups. the last line of my fin. the mason mom was like in the morning we kept fighting them. me was told me that if you could help us help us. we are old, injured. we're in a point far from me, almost one kilometer.