and hi, pollution of projects in developing countries is authentic, environmental justice even possible before the earth passes. the point of no return to discuss that i'm now joined by saying that he's on the hassan chief executive of the bangladesh environmental lawyers association is one is great to see a good to talk to thank you very much for your time. thank you. i'm particularly grateful for this conversation and for the chance to talk to because i really like your approach. i think you approach this very complicated, very science, the issue in a very human way and that is easy for an ordinary person to understand. so instead of talking about, let's say, limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees celsius as the most scientists do, you speak about the quality of air that we breathe every 2nd of our lives. and that led me thinking is what? 8. if one of the reasons why a colonial issues are not addressed as they should be,

is because they are formulated in a way that is very hard for most people to grasp. and to practice that very, really talk about climate change. and we work with the communities, they don't really say climate change, but then explain their every day difficulties to you. and by listening to their everyday difficulties, me being a person exposed to what's happening globally. i instantly realized that it's happening because of climate change. so people don't know what i, this is his stands for. they really do not understand what god stands for or what you and f, c, c, c, or mitigation stands for. but they're the ones who are feeling the impact of our injustices being done to the environment. so it is their language that is most

important. and what it is, is he says is exactly what my farmers are saying. what i pieces, he says is exactly what my fishermen are saying, but they just have different language and time it change has so much an impact on our everyday life, on the well established human rights. then giving it a human language is not vague. not speaking about injustices both to the environment and as a result of the people who leave on, on those lines, you often use the concept of acco side in your public work. how do you define it? as we hear every day we're losing forest area, which is the size of but to good. so what we are doing to the

green color of this word is nothing but equal site. and they said is because we are doing, we one launch about the consequences of all. we know that if we destroy forest, the challenges of climate change will increase. many for still we are doing it on different grounds for which alternatives exist. so this is equal so because what you are destructing cannot be restored. very easy. you can create a forest, you can create a lever, you can create stadiums, you can create thousands of down chips, but you can't recreate the forest, you got to re creativity. and you know, that you are actually destroying something that you're going to recreate. and this destruction will have serious negative impact on some communities in some part as well as speaking about that. i think one of the problems here is that the impact

will be most noticeable in the indigenous communities. people who still leave of the land, but people in bigger city, you know, who don't have any trees around them. they sort of don't even notice that apart perhaps from the year, you know, the quality of fear or the quality of water which in the cities is a more or less a k right. now, how do you think it could be made relate to both to the sort of an average urban citizen, all of the earth to make him not only a b, abstractly concerned about the, you know, the, disappearing for us somewhere let's say in, in south america. but actually to be concerned about what surrounds him on the, in the media or her on an immediate basis in mind. but of the word it is no longer an issue of abstractly connecting someone with the adverse in thing.

because i live in hacker the most populated capital of the world and it is often ranked as one of the most unbelievable cities of the word. so the city dwellers here. sure. the reach people here so are facing the impact of pollution. so people who are sewerage, living in the capital of bangladesh, also in the hills, the same poisonous air that someone else's inhaling as thing. so when we contaminate environment, when we destroy nature, the impact of it is felt by everyone. and also to answer your question. this time we are having serious food crisis in the word. and if we

destroy our agriculture land, if we destroy our traditional knowledge around food production, the climate decrease become even more acute and see via for you. because you then become dependent on food being produced as me, which is not something that very sustainable. i live in a city where the temperature is treat degree higher already from the neighboring town. would you know, right? because the other townships haven't jumped out the trees, but in tucker in the name of development and in our pursuit to become a capital like a single, we are all going for our validation and just covering all the greens with concrete . so when you distract nature, it takes a revenge on whether you are reach are poor. it doesn't really that way. i live as you as one and then something in you want to argue with this thesis because sure

the impact is failed. because ultimately we have one planet in habit, but the impact is different for people in bangladesh than let's say, for 4 people in the united states. which brings me to this old question of who should be responsible for making and finding those great changes that are necessary, correct me from wrong. but as things stand now about 10 percent of the world's population is responsible for nearly half of the global admissions. and that figure may become even more lopsided if we factor in all the production chains. for example, you know, products manufacturers in bangladesh for the consumption and great britain. and then you add all the shipping and then shipping back of the garbage. and sometimes, you know, people including myself come to the conclusion that this ecological movement in some of the rich countries has become

a way of cleaning that own land at the expense of somebody else's land. i'm exaggerating here. well, you're not at all exaggerating. that is the reality. we have all embraced and economic model that perhaps is not delivering, it's not delivering for the majority of the b, but it is delivering for a few or the guys. and that is why we always see that the more stronger our demand, the demand of the most vulnerable country is due to climate change is getting stronger for a transition from fossil for to renew it. with the more resistance we are actually facing from the fussy industry because they're economics and our economics are clearly different. having said that, if you notice what has happened this year in the u. k. excels the heat that you get people have to went through. that is,

i'd appreciate it. so they're probably in the developed country. it is a notion that it will not touch their lives or even if that is their lives, they'll be able to deal with it. i don't think the magnitude of the problem is not address from the gore will allow any office to deal with it. that is in comfort. in the u. k, it is not only the temperature i use that one has to ne, one has to also that is the fact that this country, which is known for its democracy, had 3 prime ministers in just 23 months. so this economic model is not only destroying the nature, it is also not delivering to the needs of the developed countries because it's very exploited in nature. and. ready thinking that me being in the us or in can i go out in russia, i will not be impacted by that perhaps is not going to happen. we have to take

lessons for what is happening and you get and all the actual disasters that are happening around us. and they're not happening only india with pakistan already now because they're happening in the developed countries then. absolutely, but they're not affecting those developed countries as much as some of the developing countries that you mentioned them. maybe i'm teaching dentures, but i think when it comes to various international environmental for the most common dynamic is still for the developing nations. are the most effective nations to sort of try to get tripped wealthy countries into providing some money while the developed countries still continue with sort of exporting the environmentally friendly policies on to the developing world. and sometimes it looks really like a king back payment for the preservation of the status quo. and both sides agree with that. now you are arguing for a change of paradigm, how do you think it could be implemented and who should be?

the initiators of that change, it is not only some money that is being demanded. it is being demanded on clear grounds of responsibility. the developed countries don't want to accept the term liability, but end of the day, it is the damage that is being paid for the loss that that is being force. and the loss is actually being caused by the very exploitative model of development of the developed countries. and also it is not only a gong for money, it is also a call for system change as you as your right. the please. and we have seen that before the war there was changing the m. m a changes started very slowly. for example, germany gave a declaration that made it will not be using call anymore. and then you get also in

the car that was held in scotland. pressed hard for a phase out from gold, but then because of pressure coming from the developing world on so the compromised language was seized don't. so the problem is we are asking for a system change, but we are doing that being under the influence of those who are responsible for this. for example, if you said the negotiation team, that the u. s. takes to the call for climate. they have many players from the far since well, industry that he grew nami is dependent on the fossil and industry. when you fight against malaria, you don't really take mosquitoes. and if you do, you reside, or we have to take a very short break right now. but we will be back to the discussion in just a few moments station.

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ah welcome back to worlds apart with that is one hassan chief executive of the bangladesh environmental lawyers association is one that just before the break we were talking about how difficult it is to initiate the change. and i don't know if you would agree with that, but i think the, the issue of lifestyle is crucial here. because over the last several decades, perhaps when one of the, this western lifestyle which as you said,

and i agree with that totally is being sustained through the reliance on the rest of the world and through very exploitative. and sometimes iron clad reliance on the rest of the world, it's being propagated through media, through movies as something that everybody aspires to. and it is pretty clear from all the calculations that people we can't afford that kind of a live sold to everybody on this one because maybe we need another 2 or 3 plans to explore it. do you think it's possible? do you think it's realistic to arrive at a certain definition a certain view of the lifestyle that will be dignified, socially desirable, and at the same time respectful to the environment and allowing for the generation of, of the nature that we are using. i very much think it's possible and this is a confusion that we see in my, in the nation. and in the next generation, when we say sustainable lighting,

we often think that we do not know the answer. this question here in bangladesh. all the children really want to go abroad for studies. they want to go to develop countries. they want to build up their game because they're very comfortable with. i mean, it is that the developed countries offered them, but i can see a definite change in the younger generation now, but i'm coming to that later. when people ask me what is sustainable life stayed? i said the life force of fire learn. oh, well, the farmer in bundle dish is a sustainable lifestyle. he has all the things that are needed for a distant and gone for double living. he has all the things that me, it hits least, but he does not have greed. so he does not ask for more and more and more and more,

and he does not ask it from others. on the other hand, they exploited him. model is actually building their fortune on them. i am putting others at risk. so i think it's more than greed and the lead thing when you address that, you very easily find the definition of sustainable leaving and here in bangladesh, every time our politicians tell us about growth, the dentist very soon, we will become like the developed countries, but it is then more to love the developed country. that is the reason for this get this trophy of climate change, but actually don't take into consideration. i think a lot has to do with developing a consciousness in the next generation and this day and ending the call. i have gone back with a very positive feeling, number one,

because our leaders this time felt the pressure from their committees and they wanted to come back with some definite commitment. second, this time the saw the children chanting slogan for climate justice. so i expect responsible citizenry and responsible leadership from your generation. i want to bring in the question the issue of globalization, which sure lifted millions of people out of curiosity, but it also has its shadow side in, in a sense of outsourcing all the negatives. for example, you know, shipping the carbon garbage of western countries to asian countries or air pollution for non stop production or in humane working hours. what have you. and i wonder if this is more balanced, more ethical, a lifetime warranty video, land lifestyle is possible within the concept of mobile zation because you know,

if everything is global it's, it's hard to understand who is responsible for this little corner of the world. it is very important for us to be critical, but it is also important for us to be hopeful. we can't change the things if you start losing faith in every process. and in every institution you see, i am unable to done. and i very proudly see how good john is protecting its nature at the same time mainstreaming, reading the globalization, so they have got their safeguards. for example, the constitution of with clearly says that you won't, will never be destroying forrest, to an extent that it comes down below 60 percent badani children have got the right set of education. i must say,

look at rwanda. they're dealing with the plastic minis very successfully. so the consumption and the consumptive attitude has been handled very nicely with rulers in the driving, in rwanda, in the, in our part of the word communities, city societies are working to find out transition from fossil fuels to 100 percent renewable. we're having hard time to get our government to listen to it. and our governments are also under pressure from the foreign government because they have to export their goal. they wanted gas company, they want their mining company to get it in the we have this and what's the worst thing that's happening here in our part of the world is the government's are out there to deny us. all right? to say no. so the more we say yes to renewable, the government keeps on saying, no,

we want to foster development. we want to go and we want to say no to goal. we are testing it, of course, trade with governments monitoring the canada. so that is one thing that i see that is growing all around the way. so right, to say no, has to be something that has to be recognized. now you mentioned that the governments are often facing and it's leaking and goals and agendas because sure everybody, i'm sure like it, if they have an opportunity to protect the environment, they would do that, whether they're also more immediate concerns about, you know, provision of services et cetera, and there's a lot of talk these days about cities and how urban development should proceed, and it's no secret the policies or cities are associated with the, with the birth of civilization. and i've heard especially speculate that they may be also associated with the demise of both civilization and ecology. now

the united nations panel on climate change recently recommended smaller cities and more walkable cities. do you think that workable idea and what do you think would make living in the neat size, the v as attractive for let's say, an average bangladesh a or an average russian as leaving it in cities like dot com or moscow? yes, thank you. i think the meant more does exist, that can be followed. that can slow down your g d p growth. but if you think g d p is the only test off your development, you better also count. how much are you losing your g, d, b because of the environment in position in binding? the dish. ugh, every bangladesh she is losing 3 to 4 years of their life spend because of in

partition. and we tend to thing. it's not me, some of the back up person is not me some other than it is my mother. it's my father. we don't really think it that way. so sustainable alternatives, sustainable development models do exist, but in the rush of foster. ready judy, we forget the ill trust for happiness about cities safer for bundle dish. the reality is, this is the place where you get livelihood is somewhat secure. today it has to be decentralized, which is not often happening out of the word. everything remains to this entry. we've kind of changed this with aggravate farther because one could of course tell bangladesh or one 3rd of bundle dish, meaning the hopefully it might go under water. if you don't really know as the causes of climate change very fast. so that more and more people will be coming to

tucker and this already on leave it with the city will probably give you a flavor of him in this worried said, i just hope that doesn't happen. of course, duck isaac, i look city in most cities, major cities, we find the same problem. if not walking, cycling is also an option. improvement of the public transportation system is an option. so everyone has to have a car and that guy has to come out on the road every day is some idea is an idea that we have to just decide. now if i'm ask you one final question and you mentioned the, the apocalyptic forecast, the scientist i'm making about the degradation of nature. and you mentioned the demise or the destruction of the coastal areas and some of the asian countries for some parts of africa. the opposite is being forecast that

very area environment. an enormous drought that will make some of the land are fully uninhabited. and then there is a question of 52 small island states for home climate change is all ready. an existential spread. the thread that has already started to manifest itself in the form of more frequent and more powerful storms and droughts at, as you mentioned, the developed countries are also being impacted. but i think that ruin was agreed that the action still falls behind the rhetoric. how bad do you think it should become before the will truly authentically springs into action on this one? 0, i won't be home for here, although i can see that we are missing out on dying. we are not addressing the problem in a timely fashion, but if you followed the conference of parties this time,

you have seen that the delegations extender the conference for 2 more days because they could not reach a consensus and loss and damage. they wanted to come up with different strategic leg declaring or separate insurance game. they wanted to break the unity of g $77.00 and china. but they haven't managed to do that. even within that extended period. that is because the affected country leaders are under pressure from their communities. they went there with definite commitment that they have to come back with some pink to your report to their people. and that is why the bangladesh representative, the pakistan represented the seller will re present it in and the negotiators did not allow a crack in their unity. so and the, and the developed countries,

despite their other efforts of, you know, declaring this insurance scheme and everything had to bow down to this pressure. so i think a pressure is on the more day back to me it is get organized teams will probably start moving in the right direction. but we have much more organized openness, slager, timber traders, foster industry, plastic industry, how the community resistors will communicate and talk to this economic sectors. how becto we've been given the pressures of this economic sectors in control would tell you how long it will take for us. do you know the change that we actually mean? we unfortunately have to leave it there,

but i'm really grateful for this. very distressing, at the same time, somewhat optimistic on recitation. thank you very much for that. and thank you for watching hope to hear again on the was a part. ah mm . mm mm ah. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic. development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful,

very difficult. time. time to sit down and talk. lou in louisa hunter, russian state will never. i've stayed on the nurse, i'm skiing with 55 with rural van in the european union. the kremlin community up machine, the state on russia for date and r t spoke mckibben, our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube with

me. a ah, breaking news hospital in the russian city of dawn. yes, has been hit by a ukrainian massage, with a number of casualties reported a, the one to believe is killed into a wounded in rushes belgrade region off a shilling from across the border by ukraine. the rally on month because the key check point in northern call again, what they call unprecedented depression by christina when nato led peacekeepers stepping in to secure the area.