to no self determination, the legal advice we have received is actually political. since we're not an arnold a people for me, it's time to move on and see what we can do. a full the tumbler said committee to return back home. there is no support from the nomination high commission. i forget united miss, i don't care about chug or send people ah one welcome to worlds apart. the work may have become a global village, but the rules and last house practiced in one corner of that village shop, often the very opposite of what's allowed or afforded in the other part as

developed countries. continue vocalizing that concerned about the degradation of the environment. they still explored too much of the garbage overseas and continue investing in high pollution energy projects in developing countries is authentic, environmental justice even possible before the earth passes the point of no return to discuss it. i'm now joined by saying that he's on the hassan chief executive of the bangladesh environmental lawyers association. reason one is great to see a good to talk to thank you very much for your time. thank you. i'm particularly grateful for this conversation and for the chance to talk to you because i really like your approach. i think you approach this very complicated, very science, the issue in a very human way and that is easier for an ordinary person to understand. so instead of talking about, let's say, limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees celsius as the most scientist do,

you speak about the quality of air that we breathe every 2nd of our lives. and that love me thinking is what if one of the reasons why a colonial issues are not addressed as they should be, is because they are formulated in a way that is very. * hard for most people to grasp and to practice that very, really talk about climate change and we work with the communities. they don't really say climate change, but they'll explain their everyday difficulties to you. and by listening to their everyday difficulties. me being a person exposed to what's happening globally. i instantly realized that it's happening because of climate change. so people don't know what i, this is his stands for. they really do not understand what god stands for or what

you and f, c, c, c, or mitigation stands for. but they're the ones who are feeling the impact of our injustices being done to the environment. so it is their language that is most important. and what it is is he says is exactly what my farmers are saying. what i piece is, he says is exactly what my fishermen are saying. but they just have different language and time it change has so much an impact on our everyday life, on the well established human rights. then giving it a human language is not vague. not speaking about injustices both to the environment and as a result of the people who leave on, on those lines, you often use the concept of acco side in your public work. how do you define it?

as we hear every day we're losing forest area, which is the size of but to good. so what we're doing to the green color of this word is nothing but eat we're site. and they said this because we are doing, we launch about the consequences or we know that if we destroy forest, the challenges of climate change will increase. many for still we are doing on different goals for which alternatives exist. so this is equal site because what you are destructing cannot be restored. very easy. you can create a forest, you can create to leave, you can create stadiums. you can create poses down chips. but you can't recreate the forest. you got to re create 30 and you know that

you are actually destroying something that you're going to recreate. and this destruction will have serious negative impact on some communities in some part as well as speaking about that. i think one of the problems here is that the impact will be most noticeable in the indigenous communities. people who still leave of the land, but people in bigger city, you know, who don't have many trees around them. they sort of don't even notice that apart perhaps from the year, you know, the quality of fear or the quality of water, which in many cities is a more or less i q right now. how do you think it could be made relate to both to the sort of an average urban citizen, all of the earth, to make him not only a b, abstractly concerned about the, you know, the, disappearing for us somewhere let's say in,

in south america. but actually to be concerned about what surrounds him on the, in the media or her on an immediate basis in my bottom, the word it is no longer an issue of abstractly connecting someone with the adverse in thing. because i live in hacker, the most populated capital of the word and it is often ranked as one of the most unbelievable cities afterward. so the city dwellers here. sure. the reach people here so are facing the impact of pollution. so people who are sewerage, leaving in the capital of bangladesh, also in hills the same poisonous air that someone else is inhaling as thing. so when we contaminate environment, when we destroy nature,

the impact of it is felt by everyone. and also to answer your question. this time we are having serious food crisis in the word. and if we destroy our agriculture land, if we destroy our traditional knowledge around food production, the climate dictates become even more acute and c, v for you. because you then become dependent on food being produced as me, which is not something that very sustainable. i live in a city where the temperature is treat degree higher already from the neighboring town woods. you know, right? because the other townships haven't jumped on the trees, but in tucker in the name of development and in our pursuit to become a capitain like a single, we are all going for our validation and just covering all the grades with concrete

. so when you distract nature, it takes a revenge on whether you are reach are poor, it doesn't read well, i live with you is one and then something in you want to argue with this thesis, because sure the impact is failed. because ultimately we have one planet in habit, but the impact is different for people in bangladesh than let's say, for 4 people in the united states. which brings me to this old question of who should be responsible for making and finding those great changes that are necessary, correct me from wrong. but as things stand now about 10 percent of the world's population is responsible for nearly half of the global admissions. and that figure may become even more lopsided if we factor in all the production change. for example, you know, products manufacturers in bangladesh for the consumption and great britain. and then you add all the shipping and then shipping back of the garbage. and sometimes,

you know, people including myself come to the conclusion that this ecological movement in some of the rich countries has become a way of cleaning that own land at the expense of somebody else's land. i'm exaggerating here. well, you're not at all exaggerating. that is the reality. we have all embraced and economic models that perhaps is not delivering, it's not delivering for the majority of the be, but it is delivering for a few or the guys. and that is why we always see that the more stronger our demand, the demand of the most vulnerable country is due to climate change is getting stronger for a transition from fossil fuels to renew a good, the more resistance we are actually facing from the fussy industry because they're economics and our economics are clearly different. having said that,

if you notice what has happened this year in the u. k. excels the heat that you get, people have to went to that this. i appreciate it. so they provided me in the developed country. it is a notion that it will not touch the lines already, even if that is their lives, they'll be able to deal with it. i don't think the magnitude of the problem if not address from the gore, will allow any office to deal with it. that is in comfort, in the u. k, it is not only the temperature i use that one has to ne, one has to also that is the fact that this country, which is known for its demo tracy, had 3 prime ministers in just 23 months. so this economic model is not only destroying the nature, it is also not delivering to the needs of the developed countries because it's very

exploitive in nature. and thinking that me being in the us or in can i go out in russia. i will not be impacted by that perhaps is not going to happen. we have to take lessons for what is happening and you get and all the actual disasters that are happening around us. and they're not happening only india with pakistan already now because they're happening in the development years then. absolutely. but they're not affecting those developed countries as much as some of the developing countries that you mentioned them. maybe i'm teaching dentures, but i think when it comes to various international environmental for the most common dynamic is still for the developing nations. are the most effective nations to sort of try to get tripped wealthy countries into providing some money while the developed countries still continue with sort of exporting the environmentally friendly policies on to the developing world. and sometimes it looks really like

a king back payment for the preservation of the status quo. and both sides agree with that. now you are arguing for a change of paradigm, how do you think it could be implemented and who should be? the initiators of that change, it is not only some money that is being demanded. it is being demanded on clear grounds of responsibility. the developed countries don't want to accept the term liability, but end of the day, it is the damage that is being paid for the loss that at that is being force. and the loss is actually being caused by the very exploitative model of development of the developed countries. and also it is not only a gong for money, it is also called for system change as you as your right. the please. and we have

seen that before the war, there was change jane, that the m m changes started very slowly though. for example, germany gave a declaration that made it will not be using call anymore. and then you can also in the god that was held in scotland, pressed hard for a phase out from gold, but then because of pressure coming from the developing world on, so the compromised language was seized down. so the problem is we are asking for a system change, but we are doing that being under the influence of those who are responsible for this. for example, if you said the negotiation team, that the u. s. stakes to the goal for climate they have many beers from the far since well, industry there he grew. nami is dependent on the far since when industry,

when you fight against malaria, you don't really take mosquitoes. and if you do, you reside, or we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back to the discussion in just a few moments station ah . heath with

oh is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? high solution for community. are you going the right way? where are you being that somewhere which direction? what is true was is way in the world corrupted. you need to descend or join us in the depths or remain in the shallows.

ah welcome back to wells apart with us. i yeah, that is one of hassan chief executive of the bangladesh environmental lawyers association. is one that just before the break we were talking about how difficult it is to initiate the change. and i don't know if you would agree with that, but i think be the issue of lifestyle is crucial here. because over the last several decades perhaps have been one of the, this western lifestyle which as you said, and i agree with that totally is being sustained through the reliance on the rest of the world and through very exploitative and sometimes iron clad reliance and the rest of the world, it's being propagated through media, through movies as something that everybody aspires to. and it is pretty clear from

all the calculations that people, we can't afford that kind of a live sold to everybody on this one. because maybe we need another 2 or 3 planets to explore and do you think it's possible? i do think it's realistic to arrive at a certain definition a certain view of the lifestyle that will be dignified, socially desirable, and at the same time respectful to the environment and allowing for the generation of, of the nature that we are using. i very much think it's possible and this is a confusion that we see in might in the nation. and in the next generation, when he says sustainable lifestyle, we often think that we do not know the answer. this question here in bangladesh. all the children really want to go abroad for studies. they want to go to develop countries. they want to build up their game because they're very comfortable with.

i mean, it is that the developed countries offered them, but i can see a definite change in the younger generation now, but i'm coming to that later. when people ask me what this sustainable life stayed, i said the life for, for fire learn. oh, well, the fire we're in bundle dish is a sustainable lifestyle. he has all the things that are needed for a distant and gone for double living. he has all the things that me, it hits least, but he does not have greed. so he does not ask for more and more and more and more, and he does not ask it from others. on the other hand, they exploited him. model is actually building their fortune on them. i am putting others that risk. so i think it's more than greed and the lead thing when you address that, you very easily find

a definition of sustainable leaving. and here in bangladesh, every time our politicians tell us about growth, they tell us very soon, we will become like the developed countries, but it is then more to love the developed country. that is the reason for this get this trophy of climate change. but actually don't take into consideration. i think a lot has to do with developing a consciousness in the next generation. and this day at the ending the call, i have gone back with a very positive feeling. number one, because our leaders this time felt the pressure from their committees and they wanted to come back with some definite commitment. second, this time the saw the children chanting slogan for climate justice. so i expect responsible citizenry and responsible leadership from your generation. i want to

bring in the question the issue of globalization, which sure lifted millions of people out of curiosity, but it also has its shadow side in, in a sense of outsourcing all the negatives. for example, you know, shipping the car, garbage of western countries to asian countries or air pollution for non stop production or in humane working hours. what have you. and i wonder if this is more balanced, more ethical, a lifetime warranty, with your land lifestyle is possible within the concept of globalization. because, you know, if everything is global it's, it's hard to understand who is responsible for this little corner of the world. it is very important for us to be critical, but it is also important for us to be hopeful. we can't change the things if you

start losing faith in every process. and in every institution you see i am unable to done and a very proudly see how good time is protecting its nature at the same time mainstreaming, reading the globalization, so they have got their safeguards. for example, the constitution of what does clearly says that you want will never be destroying forrest, to an extent that it comes down below 60 percent badani children have got the right set of education. i must say, look at rwanda. they're dealing with the plastic minis. very successfully. so the consumption and the consumptive attitude has been handled very nicely with rulers in the driving, in rwanda, in the, in our part of the word communities. civil societies are working to find out

transition from fossil fuels to 100 percent renewable. we're having hard time to get our governments to listen to it. and our governments are also under pressure from the foreign governments because they have to export their goal. they wanted gas company, they want their mining company to get it in. do we have this and what's the worst thing that's happening here in our part of the world is the governments are out there to deny us. all right, to say no, said the more we say yes to renewable, the government keeps on saying no, we want to foster developments you want to call. and we want to say no to get this thing. it of course trade with governments when entering the canada. so that is one thing that i see that is growing all around the way. so right, to say no, has to be something that has to be recognized. now you mentioned that the

governments are often facing and it's leaking and goals and agendas because sure everybody, i'm sure like it, if they have an opportunity to protect the environment, they would do those. but they're also more immediate concerns about, you know, provision of services, etc. and there is a lot of talk these days about cities and how urban development should proceed in so secret the policies or cities are associated with the, with the birth of civilization. and i've heard especially speculate that they may be also associated with the demise of both of civilization and ecology. now the united nations panel on climate change recently recommended smaller cities and more walkable cities. do you think that workable idea and what do you think would make living in the neat size c, d as attractive for let's say,

an average bangladesh a or an average russian as leaving it in cities like dot com or moscow? yes, thank you. i think it meant more does exist that can be followed. that can slow down your g d p growth. but if you think g d p is the only test off your development, you better also count. how much are you losing your g, d, b because of the environment? 10th edition in binding? the dish. ugh, every bangladesh she is losing 3 to 4 years of their lives spend because of in perdition. and we tend to thing it's not meet some of the backups. it's not me some other than that, which is my mother is my father. we don't really think that we sustainable alternatives. sustainable development models do exist, but in the rush of foster judy, we forget her ill trust for happiness, about cities,

c for for bundle dish. the reality is, this is the place where you get livelihood is somewhat secure. today it has to be decentralized, which is not often happening in our part of the word. everything remains to just entry. we've kind of changed this with aggravate farther because one could of course tell bandwidth or one 3rd of bundle dish, meaning the whole soleah might go on to water. if you don't really know as the causes of climate change very fast. so that more and more people will be coming to tucker and this already on leave it with the city will probably give you a flavor of him in this worried says, i just hope that doesn't happen. course doug isaac, i look city in most cities, major cities, we find the same problem. if not walking, cycling is also an option. improvement of the public transportation system is an

option, so everyone has to have a car and that guy has to come out on the road every day is some idea is an idea that we have to just decide. now if i'm asking one final question and you mentioned the, the apocalyptic forecast, the scientist i'm making about the degradation of the earth and nature. and you mentioned the demise or the destruction of the coastal areas and some of the asian countries for some parts of africa. the opposite is being forecast of very area environment, an enormous drought that will make some of the land for fully uninhabited. and then there is a question of 52 small island states for home climate change is all ready, an existential spread. the thread that has already started to manifest itself in

the form of more frequent and more powerful storms and droughts at, as you mentioned, the developed countries are also being impacted. but i think that ruin was agreed and the action still falls behind the rhetoric. how bad do you think it should become before the will truly authentically screens interaction on this one? 0, i won't be home for here, although i can see that we are missing out on dying. we are not addressing the problem in a timely fashion, but if you followed the conference of parties this time, you have seen that the delegations extender the conference for 2 more days because they could not reach a consensus and loss and damage. they wanted to come up with different strategies, lane declaring a separate insurance game. they wanted to break the unity of g $77.00 and china.

but they haven't managed to do that. even within that extended period. that is because the affected country leaders are under pressure from their communities. they went there with definite commitment that they have to come back with some pink to your report to their people. and that is why the bangladesh representative, the pakistan represented the senate will re present it in and the negotiators did not allow a crack in their unity. so and the end, the developed countries, despite their other efforts of, you know, declaring this insurance scheme and everything had to bow down to this pressure. so i think of pressure is on the more date back to me, it is get organized things will probably start moving in the right

direction. but we have much more organized openness, slager, timber traders, fossil industry, plastic industry, how the community resistors will communicate and talk to this economic sectors. how better we even keep the pressures of these economic sectors in control would tell you how long it will take for us. do you know the change that we actually mean? we unfortunately have to leave it there. but i'm really grateful for this. very distressing at the same time, somewhat optimistic on for station. thank you very much for that. thanks and thank you for watching coke to sir. again on the was a part ah mm

. mm. mm ah, i've actually found safety braces. naziism is a juice, all of a sudden you're placed in a position where i can defend myself. now, i don't have to be afraid any more. on one hand, i'm terrified that they're going to find out i'm jewish, but on the other, i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and her st. john, they're going to hurry. one guy hunch me, hi my here or somebody shell now, and the rest of the punch is to start to fly in somebody shouted out died, you boy died. and at that point i knew there. so back.