more than 8 years on he has failed to conduct a proper investigation of the tragedy. all surviving members of the idol battalion have been since shuffled with ukraine's regular army where they now serve as soldiers. showing that while keith has indeed tried to sweep uncomfortable history under the rug, it has hardly abandoned its ways. makers done of reporting from the don't boss out sci fi. before we wrap up this, i was program here on our tea. a detachment of the russian naval fleet has set sail to participate with a chinese counterparts in joint drills dubbed marine interaction 2022. the exercises will take place in the east china sea from december 21st and a scheduled to include rocket nod tillery target practice to columns coordination, and the honing of anti submarine methods as well. a large array of various naval weapons will also be deployed in the live fire drills. officials say the goal is to

strengthen cooperation between russia and china, well maintaining peace and stability in the asia pacific region. i just about wrapping up this i was broadcast live from moscow, an r t international. thank you. was always fun. sharing a time with us here at the russian capital. a busy monday so far we'll recover the headlines pop with ah ah mm

for? oh, the wrong one. 0. just don't hold any new world. yes, to shape out. disdain becomes the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross doctor. all things are considered. i'm peter level

american president abraham lincoln say, a house divided against itself cannot stand. this famous phrase appears to apply to europe today, when it comes to the conflict and ukraine and russia. can there be a united europe without russia? ah, discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess martin j and mary cash. he's an award winning journalist and commentator, and here in moscow we have in a row, he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis, track pole. right? gentleman cross that rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i would appreciate it. well, let's start out with martin martin. i think we would all agree that at least formally, europe is united in seeing russia defeated in ukraine. ok when lose, but then you go down a level and well, what does that really mean?

and that is really which plaguing the western world and their approach to this con, like because you have president the french president of chrome. you have the german chancellor schultz talking about vaguely talking about what has to happen after the conflict. they're not really do welling too much on the minutia how they get there . now, you know, the baltic republic of poland, you have the check republic, their talk, they're basically no talks, no contacts, no future. and we, famously, we had a deputy foreign minister in poland saying that russia doesn't even deserve security guarantees. so this is where we stand. i would say this is not a winning strategy for the west. no, it's not loading stress you. i mean, there's a great deal of somebody about in the dark searching for the black cap in the black room, you know, on the black chair which doesn't exist. and i think that the problem we've got is that the more we look at the current conflict within the dimension of european union, morrissey, division division, which has been around for quite

a long time. you know, we talk about old europe and new europe. you know, that's an argument with classic or by the bronze age. some people might say that last the comparison we should meet with the union, but you know more reason. i think it was don't run schools who said the interesting the old europe, when he was referring to eastern european countries, supported the americanization of iraq in 2003 and, and the urban union of france and germany didn't. i think that's probably for most people sort of reference, but you know, that's where that's where there's a real division within so called foreign policy. if we can imagine if we, if we will do your opinion and has a foreign policy of some sort. so we've got a real problem with division. most of the eastern european countries are going along with a plan, which they don't really believe in real worries about because i thinking much more the longer term rushes never, you know. and also many of these countries, when they joined the european union, launched most of them joined in 2004, a couple of joy later in 2006. i was brussels and come with it. it was interesting

that hardly any got any say whatsoever in terms of how the joint, whereas france, you know, had a real, a field day in there in the french exception. a little the rules that it won't do that on germany as well as we've been worried about franco. german acts just for very long time, the expansion into each new was supposed to compromise. but franca german actually still hasn't happened. the frank as human actions is still the old argue, is even more germanic whenever, you know, but a lot of these eastern european countries are really starting to wake up now about what the real deal is. most of them are atlanta says, most of them are much alliance america and to nights on a very, very worried about the european union, flexing its muscles and goes to play one day having its own army and is on foreign policy because god knows what would happen in ukraine, if that were to happen. so you know, there's so many of us on the horizon for us to look at so many political conundrums

to tackle. but no one has the on. so these idea that these guys in the west know what's going to happen like this, the idea that they have an end game is noticed that only have a present game. i will argue little bit later that russia does have an end game, and that's when it makes it. that's the difference in this conflict. ok, exactly. so it's very interesting is if you look at the baltic, republics, you look at poland and i'm really glad that martin brought up the franco german axis is that they're not appealing to paris or to berlin. they're always appealing to washington. and this is say that russia divide, you know, this is what it's about your, it's the u. s. the u. s. keeps the franco german alliance on one side, and it pushes the new europe on another, which of course, is inherently division zavion. actually the point is that the u. s. want to war, but not against russia, against or europe again. so you print economy is,

this is germany economy because we are on the, on the, on the brink of an economy disaster. if you look at the travel americans problem to united states, he was supposed to get a drop in the u. s. gas prices. it didn't get it, and the u. s. guys process is 4 times more expensive than the written one. it was supposed to dissuade joe biden from i brings plan to support the u. s. economy. it didn't get it. it was, it just has the right to say that it was, it was all the fault of russia and ready me put in. and if you look out, you are talking about a short look at the trouble of shoulds in china is a complete for the us. well, it didn't get anything. and no, you have german, the comic because we are about to sell. some are chinese cars. and you have a european union is continuing to texas. it all decisions such as the end of the heat engine was the chinese as a 1st place for the production of any 3 cars. so we are on the brink and then you

can be just there because of stupid, you know, your pin decision and the, the most that you said the right word, stupidity ok. finish it. ok. because because it is a martin, i'm glad i didn't want i didn't, hadn't, hadn't thought about bringing a china here. but the chinese don't even take the european seriously. they see what the europeans have done is become publicans to the us or the chinese or say, well, we have to talk to washington to deal with the europeans. that's essentially what's happening martin here and you know, this, this old argument of multilateral and violence. the chinese decided, well, i don't think it just, i don't think for a long time they've been, they've decided that they can work much more successfully talking to your member states on a one to one level. you know, because because again, this lack of critical to, for the, you know, the, is going through a crisis right now. if you know what just happened just the last few days in brussels,

we've had the corruption scandal which was really some shock waves. right across the continent, but the people that were in the most of the, the die hard federalists in brussels, who are worried about the long term stability of the project itself. you know, when i was in brussels, my writing to 3995 from bonus to move the moment i arrived all i heard from people work in european commission on the dinner party circuit. was this worry this. they were present this similar, this metaphor all for the eve being an old man. no dutchman riding a bicycle. and the worry is that the old muscles of the bicycle and back home. and this is really if that was the worry and 995. imagine what the panic on through brussels is right now. so, you know, i mean peace traditionally or your officials were always giving jobs to the friends . we give it contracts to who was political lines them. we've broken the mode now

with the middle east and taxes and sending suitcases or 600000 years around shoot apartments in brussels. i mean, this really does show you the best and worst of the european union if you've got that kind of corruption of that kind of lever where people just send you money like, like somebody might send you pizza, you know, then, you know, how long has it been you to god, i would argue that some were looking at the game is actually the you itself and people are starting to panic because they are real. to me. the next most important dates for ukraine is 2024. so many reasons you probably haven't got time to go into, but the main one is the me that you will have its next real crisis with the lowest vote to turn out. so the polls in it's on europe in elections. i'm the highest turn out to saw, right groups. and if we get to the situation with the european parliament as a majority for the 1st time ever before, right groups, then you've got to complete until this is what your opinion stands. it's

interesting that the washington today was to corral and united europe in favor of ukraine, but exactly the exact opposite is happening. it's the law of intended consequences . this was supposed to be these people in washington, you know, i mean, i, low off pain thinkers, you know, well, you know, europe will crush their economy. they'll be dependent on us and will make them b, r flat in ukraine. well, it's all in tatters now. yes. because you know, in my opinion, for the west and especially for washington, there was only one plane, a plan, a and there isn't a plan the, the plan a we're going to. but i remember was to say the victoria known of such are never seen, never seen sanctions in russia. so the russian economy will collapse and the people are going to the street and they will be president, and it will be shared the,

the russian territory in different us. exactly. wanted to do the no conservative a little bit in the united states, but it didn't happen. and there is another point that we are, again, on the brink of an economic collapse. but we are in, in europe, i mean, on the brink of a military collapse. because if you look at the western media, there was a say that we have a ridiculous emissions reserves private us from bay wedding, a say we're against russia. so we can't do anything we can do an economical, we're in russia, we have no more ammunition to fight against russia and exactly what cisco twitter, or actually risha doesn't need any more guarantee of security because russia demilitarize in nato. actually that was what they did in ukraine till the end of this year. they're going to do it. no. again, the 2nd army, the net, to kevin army and the director. is them actually?

yeah, you're absolutely right, and that's why, again, we get always get this projection, you know, talking about loose nukes and all that. it's the west martin that has been talking about the, the possible deployment of a nuclear weapon in this complex exactly, for the reasons the exam, he just said, is it not only is ukraine being demilitarized nato, whatever. however, it was in the lines in the 1st place is being depleted as well. it is much more, you know, and also i think the whole argument somebody makes very well a is a very good example of just how much b s were being fed by major in the way about russia being our enemy. if russia was really our enemy, do you think you'd have this depletion of the military stock so quick and so rapidly as it, as it was now, it's faith, which is not our enemy, but it's, excuse me as a convenient enemy for so many political agenda is largely to forward the ambitions

of europe in nature, the name. so as you know, you talk about the nukes and nature for me. you know, this talk about news is just that it's only ever going to be talk. and i think everybody's waking up this reality that nature. ready seems apparently to gain some credibility. ready you know, last is identity before you or people that mat chromebooks were making these ridiculous comments about it being brain dead. but it seems to gain a certain amounts of kudos amongst many westerners. but it's, you know, the rescue i would say among the elite, this is an agenda here. okay. alright gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're gonna go to a heartbreak. and after that, heartbreak will continue our discussion on some real new stay with our team. the

a welcome back. across the dock were all things are considered. i'm funeral. well this is the home addition to remind you we're discussing some real ah to continue the conversation here. i would argue the dilemma that really faces the west is how they framed this conflict. when lose. ok, and that is fundamentally wrong if you want the conflict to come to an end. if they were to take the approach, which i think would be an appropriate approach because it would talk about a pan european security including russia. but know they've taken the wrong path

when lose, they should be that the way out of this for everybody is in talk about peace. and if you talk about peace, then you find everyone's place in it. and they refused to do that particularly low walking thinkers. dalton berkeley cannot get there. ok, you listen to him and he sounds, kids are running. you know, nato is in my brain but not in the conflict and all this other non no reporter with his worth. his or her salt is ever ask him a hard question. but the question is, why aren't you talking about peace gavia? and the problem isn't it went to foreign is, were the, could have help ukraine, you know, maybe to, to make you quinn fights a little bit longer. that it was supposed to do, but they go so far and to spend all low so, so much money that of course defeat of ukraine, which is my, in my opinion,

inevitable that if he w credit, if he does nato, and actually i can't answer to your question, because i don't know when nato, because not a question of kiff anymore. it's question of washington. his question of nato, when natal will be tired and else exhausted in house to stop the war in russia. because what we look at inertia know, is that the russian government is ready to have a long war. they're ready to do it. it's not clear. then we would put in a set it in self. so and, but the said as soon as you want to try to, to start negotiating, we are ready. but of course, because you make us invest more in this war, we will take more part of ukraine. because if you remember, the 1st war, m of risha was about 30000 square kilometers of the part of the bus. it didn't control knows it took under a 1000 a square kilometers. and the best of is already took as a cremeans ticker,

is already we ask somebody, ask, but what about odessa? enchanting of answer. it's depend on the local population. so for the russian, as long as you put them to go to, to continue to invest more in this country, they would take more parts of ukraine. so if the, if the west one to, to save something from ukraine, it has to do with no, maybe they could, they could avoid the, that the de russia, at least, will take odessa. because in my opinion, physician, a government taking odessa is one of the priority, and it would maybe, maybe take one your mo, but they will take odessa every but i would even, i would even say kirk of as well. oh, yes of. yeah. but, but half of it, so for my him and by him there is no doubt for anybody but are this so, you know, in my opinion, it's a positive. so you want to say from russia, i mean to, to, to keep this assets, which is very important because it's a, it's a, it's on the, on the black. see i and the last mario pulls a lot belgium's can it is a low as i will lose as of course nichol. i have and sons in the villas or this,

or for, for natal, for you credit the and a whole. so, but if they want to set this up from russia, it's time to negotiate. it's down to demilitarize is trying to notify that you bring up the word negotiations. martin. i'm sure you came across the multiple interviews that are proud merkel. i gave to german media and it confirms everything the 3 of us of believe all along is that the germans, the french, they were never committed to a peace process. what was called mens ok. so given what we've all said here already today, why would the russians negotiate with any of these people? they've been proven to be complicit is m honors a and i have talked about personally i had when we met in saint petersburg is that russians going to determine its own security guarantees because there is no

one to negotiate with. because russia isn't going to want to do this in 5 years or 10 years time, all over again. this, the outcome of this conflict with russia will determine will be definitive mark. russia is playing the long game as over is absolutely right. you know, when talking about yours, but you're looking at the merkel interview and the reason admission by her that there was nothing genuine on the european union side. you know, i think it was pretty shocking. a lot of people, i mean many people in europe would be shocked by that because there is this default setting of so many european stuff. you know, the west with basically, you know, good guys and, and, and every time i was gone and all the jungle or whatever you call it, you know, um, but you know that we showed our colors that makes as you go right. you said that makes negotiation like 10 times harder and mistakes raised 10 times higher. so whatever russia would want ultimately, you know, it makes it so much further away. i think the european union knows nothing that

really does not that they know that negotiating recruiting will be very hard because of our whole not because of his particular idea about a piece of the system. but the pin, the pin is don't want peace. they don't want to give peace a chance to coin that phrase. i think they believe that they can stick it out in the longer term. but look at the depletion of stocks. look at the money that's being given to the ukraine, which is the shipping which use all the time and only biden's going to get his military aid approved. and even if he did, how wrong we go, how long can we, can we bail out the ukraine? when, if we look at the possibility of a change of government in america, the company, assigning republicans, getting in every indication, we're not going to spend the same amount of money. so when russia looks at that dynamic, over 24 months, which is a very short period of time, you know, everything seems to be stacked up against the west. but you know, americans winning us. so this before america keeps coming out is the winner. you know, it's just go all these natural gas deals which are piling up. it's got it member

states individual exactly on the european union. so exactly where the americans want them divided more devices than ever other use falling apart. this is a dream for by a nice lot of people. the way to the bank is money. yeah. but i mean, it's a double edged sword, isn't it? because of course the u. s. is winning. i mean, it's really quick. the governments are going to be crazy because you have a, by the administration that have at least wants to appear to be anti fossil fuel. but at the same time, it is the big, it is the biggest booster of it because it's making so much money in europe. but as a result, europe see productivity goes down. we've got, you know, we talked about an economic meltdown. what's happening right now we need is a marshall plan. that's what we need the americans to, to just start seeing your opinions. because that's where we're heading to

the european union, a load eastern europe and was like pullin to leave at the expense of the german, french, italian taxpayers. and it's almost over, i even don't know if a chava understand that there are no destroying the german economy and the lever thanks to the german economy on the higher level that said the serve to live actually because of, i guess the, your printer phones for poland it's about 3 percent of g, d, p, the police g d p. so it's minutes. the only of the part of the growing economy in, in poland is because we send them some money from the french taxpayers from the gym and taxpayers. but we can do that for the german, but because they used to have a strong industry. and we do that because of a such an over in the country like france could survive by burring at low rates, thanks to this from euro. but because we use a solution assets,

we have no more from earl and we can't take credit, a low rates. i'm used to do well, if you bring up a good point because martin, you know, in the mainstream media likes to look at maps that likes, graphics, you know, likes flying, play the member of the gulf war and all that. ok. but it brings up the most jermaine calling. i mean, you, you can, you can't print money to win this conflict. you can ok, because when you're doing is going and europe's debt obligations are extraordinary . in the u. s. is catching up. you can't win a conflict just by printing money here. and this is, you know, this is one of the things that i've been focusing on less on the military. i'm not a military expert, but any ukraine will turn into a failed state before there is a, an outcome, a definitive military. i'll come on. the battlefield in europe is boeing

a pace right behind ukraine? it's amazing how you're is. it's the ukraine innovation of europe. martin, you know, you don't like to touch on the ministry aspect, but i, you know, i can't help looking at the mid just because all i see is corruption. you know, when you know western governments dream of the opportunity to illegally subsidize the military, they can't do it in peace time because of what your rules against that. but in, in war we tend to overlook that. and what's going on is biter is making 2 or 3 american arms manufactures. you know, the directors multi billionaires buying real estate in bahama saucer. and you can say get the carry on. but you know what we're looking at now is corruption. it's corruption. it's just expanding beyond any anybody's understanding of it. and when we look at military spending, we see corruption on a grand scale. i'm wondering whether, how this ent, for me and ukraine is much a close war. they see it as the leads which represents less than one percent in

ukraine and them missions their ideas about her origin. so they don't really that concerned about who keeps control of the claim. they're concerned about their own personal wealth and on the lifestyles that they can actually sustain and them. so it's a one percent versus 9 percent scenario. and most people in the west don't understand . i don't want to touch on that because it's the same elitist idea in brussels as well. you know, people are thinking about the lonesome longevity of the, of these amazing jobs they hold in the european parliament, european commission. but hold on your hat. we've got 5 whole years of macro the most, not just y p s e you federalists, we had and my predictions i'm going to go on the record. he is the best candidate, the most likely candidate for european commission or european council president in 2029 law way away. but that's just where we're heading. the end of the last 30 seconds, go ahead. let us know, in my opinion, russia we want this were the only question. it's to know. i mean, is this war against nato?

and the only question that will, it will, it won't, on the 1st on the economy call point of view under me to a point of view. this is my only question. i and i can't answer no, but of course risha will win because the time is working for risha. yeah, i mean, when i was a few months ago, i think martin, i asked you of it who's got the clocks and who's got to talking. and you told me both i had asked if you other guess it's a week that and they all said the same thing. i'm sure you weren't colluding with them. but i think that you know, that this, this whole western, our false narrative, like russia gave weapons of mass destruction, the hunter biden laptop. why people believe this one you grain story, when all of the others were lies, is a mystery to me. all right, gentlemen, that's all the time we have want to take my guessing medication and here in mosque i want to thank you for watching us here to see you next on remember ah,

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