indians and their will for resists it's amazing to see people share, right? because as men we talk about being strong unami, everybody wants to be strong, man, but you know, we might be physically strong, but you know, are we emotionally weak mustang are incarcerated here. and her alarm will, my biggest fear was and he goes back into a di, had on the board about memory, my salisbury francis charles policy. and he said, your son used to say he was, she could come to present just so he can be with you. in that moment i said, this is what you've left your child and this woman and your family to, to do. they say, you said if you are thinking you is dead,

you never too old to find that peace. which of children which yourself. mm hm. this prison is me into more like always call a blank canvas and a beautiful landscape. mm. i think that there are a lot of things that we can accomplish here. if you give an opportunity. mm. ah, everybody's watching everything they do. everywhere they go everywhere they gather . they have to really, really, really b up up or to make this happen. they have to worry about be a put in the whole they have to worry about being moved to another prison depending

on how hard they pushed. they don't wanna be too vocal because they don't want to be signal down as a security risk because they're being vocal about something that they want to learn . they can move them at any time. they could be take, you know, just rolled up and moved to another facility at any time for any reason. there's nothing i can say or do about it. i'm pretty sure they still, doubtless, all the way up to this point. but you can't argue with our results. that's the thing that you can't argue. cameras in every classroom, by soon as we got a classroom camera start coming up in the exam because it was like, okay, well we got to see exactly what's happening, but as good. not only put a camera in here, you can come and sit in our classroom. when you learn to with maturity, you think passively choose one's intelligence without the guidance of another. well,

cat is conveyed is that no one, not even a monarch or making impede alignment of the public eye. okay. okay. um i thought it was, i thought it was difficult read pull. i thought it was the record. i mean, that's what i graph of from it. you know, i'm not enough. i'm right or wrong. this is my so and it's not about right or wrong is about interpretation. no one can say of your interpretation is one. we don't have a manual can here to be able to ask them, what did you mean by this? and you have english scholars literary scholars will try to explain to you what somebody live 20300 years ago. literally meant when they don't know, what am i gathering from this and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters is what you're gathering, right? because there's a lot of people here who are under does that when you are kind of exceeded our boundaries as prisoners. if somebody is lying to you, if somebody is a guy,

i've always been so scared about how i've looked on the death of cory, how him being a young college kid and me being just, you know, some hoodlum from tacoma, how anybody would be able to kind of see the person that i've become or my humanity has something that's always been a fear of mine. nobody was really ever give me a chance. ah, washington state does not have pool wiping up a role in the early ninety's. what it replaced parole with was determinant sensors. in other words, i'm going to send you to a period of time and it cannot be reduced, doesn't matter what you do in prison. that's your sense. washington has started to

figure out that system is not very jobs that doesn't work. and so they've started to bring parole back. actually brought girl back for sex offences. and the other group is juvenile is kemati, had committed the crime. 61 days earlier, 2 months passed his 18th birthday. he would have been a juvenile, can he be eligible for parole today? problem with punishment. the problem with setting a life without parole sentence. for somebody who was 18 years old at the time of the crime, you don't know who he's going to be 20 years. ah, it was never really something that i was intending to have while i just got curious . i because there was a lot of people who are actually going home to crunch. the 1st thing i did is i've kind of started writing letters to some attorneys about what was possible. and then

a week, you know, he sent me a letter and told me to call he said that doing my clinic, it will be something that he will be willing to do. today we filed a clemency petition with the washington state clemency board. its a formal request asking for a commutation of commodities sent, asking the governor to change his life sentence to essentially credit for time sir, to let him go the i had different family members that have been to person and seen him even some went and spoke with him different people will tell me he's changing, he's trying to be a better person. but their plan wasn't ready to accept then.

ah, i had thought about reaching out to him. i start to write them and then i throw it away. i did that probably maybe 6 or 7 times and then i just said okay, forget it. ah, probably 6 months after that, kimani send me a message. i read it. me write it a couple times over and over. i let my family members read it. my grandmother, she raised me from the time i was 6 months old and she always instilled in as a spirit of forgiveness. and he had asked me for my forgiveness in his message that he said to me. and so i told him i said, ah, i forgave you a long time ago, i am not going to forget what happened. and so,

but i forgave you. as i understand the challenges you may have had growing up and i'm not excusing her behavior. but i forgive, you said not only am i for giving you for what you did, i have to forgive you to allow myself to lavon and to heal. ooh, well will. he was in prison. his daughter was murdered. she was 3 and a half his oh, when she was murdered, the lady that beat my granddaughter to death. i forgiven her. she didn't have the tools to be a mother. she grew out in such a violent atmosphere and was in a gang when she was in lavin. and so when she had my grand daughter, she wasn't capable of showing love or she didn't have. she didn't know how. and so

in an angry drug, addicted rage, she beat my granddaughter today and i'll always miss the nyah and i would be 23 years old now that i want her to have a 2nd chance. you know? because i feel like she never had a chance. i remember when i was in olympia fighting for this bill. i was a mother trying to fight for her son and i for people to get out and carroll. but all these victims came in a 2nd year, and i thought, you know, well after the victims who you know, and i thought, you know, well, maybe next time we go to fight for this bill. a be a victim supporting the bill where they go up and say, i'm a victim and i am against this bill. i'm going to be, i'm a victim and i'm for this bill. now, we are in this dichotomous, either victim or you're a perpetrator. it's not true. victims are perpetrators, perpetrators of victims. and we have to get to a place where we understand we're all victims of the sister. i've had

a son who was murdered and i have a family that had different ideas about what justice meant and what they wanted to come out of that process. and i think that had, i not had the experience that i've had it with the black prisons caucus over 20 years. ringback i may or may not have had the same feeling about that, but i was able to immediately forgive. it requires that we look historically will be contextualize what has happened. so that it's not just, i did something to you or you did something to me. there's other environmental things that are pushing our behavior, impacting our behavior. each of us has the capacity, the unfortunate capacity to do terrible things. if the wrong set of circumstances are presented, we need to get to a place in this country where people can atone for their actions and where the

hand of forgiveness can be extended. the prisons are not institutions that detail. the good things that happen in prison. that every once in a while, prison official recognizes that an individual has accomplish something that deserves being talked about in commodities case. a prison official told me that commodity had done more in terms of race relations in prison. and anybody who had ever worked at that prison, that included professional staff. ah, we submitted our petition with a great deal of hope because we felt that commodity had satisfied somewhat vague standard of showing extraordinary circumstances. merit team a change in

a sense. i think that is more about them being able to, to the commodity that i've become and not the commodity that i watch. and so i think that they deny me as because they haven't got past that point me a call. you will not be charged for this call. this call is from an inmate at correction center was calling will be recorded and monitored. if you was to brock anything to the cause of this nature. dial 7. now to accept this call press 5. now to decline your call. hey, thank you ah, need to come to rush in the state little narrative. i've stayed as i'm phone and the no slam. steve asked me him, then i'll sons, i'm up for a coup in the 55 when. okay, so mine is too bad, must be the one else with we will ban

in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia for date and support r t spoke mckibben, our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube. with me, i've actually found safety and embraces naziism as a juice. all of a sudden you're placing the position, i can defend myself. now, i don't have to be afraid any walk on one hand, i'm terrified that they're going to find a jewish. but on the other, i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and her st. john's are going to her, you one guy hunched me. hi my ear. when i heard somebody so now in the rest of the

punch was a started flying. can somebody shouted out, died, you boy die. and at that point i knew i remember, had an indian doctor. they came in and looked and said, there's no medical reason why you should be alive. you to find something to believe . john story is a story of ho street victory, and whatever i can do to help him, i would kill oh, no, no, no changes. i do normally during a prison i wash myself in prism

ah letter worse marcel. i don't want to lose faith. only continue more along what you dorn because you're helping the next person get out of jail and katrina. stay out of jo to be about her father. saw brother, personal society ah was shadow only you lock the reach of my interest is in people like commodity, who worked on rehabilitation and who've been told by the system, you will never get out. it does not matter what you do in prison, it will make no difference in terms of where you die. i want to be able to say yes, it will. because i believe that somebody like community makes our community

a better community. ah, this is than that. they're all on the same just in different stages of right. so this only works yes. so that one's really, really right. and there are several that turn proposal just different variety. i was released in june. i was at work release until november 5th. during that time i worked with the school and now i am still on monetary community, gusty and i live with my family. i'm just trying to, ah, you are now ah, 3 wills. it's all free or is not equitable. so if you have the

resources to have 5 options open to you and i have the resources to have to open to me, how free am i to really choose? and as long as society davies up opportunity and resources where a certain kind of person has 5 and another kind as to for nothing except for superficial characteristics that are outside of an individual's control. it will be society's fault that prisons are fool society. the state, the government institutions, all these words that we're, that are big an amorphous that, that we're trying to, trying to make in this concrete thing that has power over us is us. and we are complicit in our own captivity as long as we don't know that they are

us with how would you say about is we're right, we get about just is right. what is justice? i'm with what come to mind when we hear the word justice with moran calling with her. okay. was oh corruption call rome are present for fresh

operation with i don't wanna veil but you guys are being a little bit negative, right. because justice is related to all the bad either has has happened to was right. so yeah, of course we can we go with the negative, right? because of all of these there. i mean go room well being in a corner, most of us have negative experiences when it comes to just do a justice system. yeah. ready okay, so, so let me, let me make kind of rephrase that. when i, when i think up just is i think on this plasma by year and, and in teach by, in general with all the class is due. and if, if, if door nature, justice i, at some point in life there was something that was missing from myself that were duly,

that we never had. right. so by i was gonna pitching the chair is something new, something that can empower. i've been doing the church just mm hm. just this is the penalty or reward for one's actions as i pity or reward because justice can be serve in a good way or so. i just want to make sure that everything that i do understand is wrong, eventually come back on me, some shape or form. and that to me is chest is the good things that i do. we've actually come back to me in a go and, and bad things i do. i come back to me in a bad way. it's about integrity for me or so i just think that justice is always watching. just this isn't, isn't a thing dislike. you know, if you, if you break the laws of the land, you'll be locked up. that's a small part of justice. but just this is even bigger than that just as she control to the things that you'd normally nobody else does. watch an awesome

justice has to be individualized. justice has to ask, how is the community harms and how can we make it better? and what role should this individual have in making that community better? just that's a tough one. i'm not certain oliver, no injustices. justice. i'm not sure if i ever thought about that much just to our part in the system and in the next part, how to do their part the the lawyers on both sides in judges. but i would still feel good about the power i did a this is matt about a prison education program, and to be very clear, it is not about the department of corrections at all. they just geographically

happened to be a press there. they could be oppressed anywhere else in the community. ah, it's a trip because we got some class issues going on. there are many of us who do not believe that people are in prison. could have the answers to our problems. ah, we do not believe that the people sleeping under the bridge can have the answers to their reality. ah, because we have people with ph. d and master's degrees, who then have been certified to do that work. and they have been doing it over and over and over and over and over again. i'm in a, in a system where we've had a 10 year plan that is now turned into a 20 year plan. they just change a name and it's gang. those brothers, no gang. so for all the classes that we offer to some, we can't wait just for people in prison. aaron's children have the solutions to our

problems. and what we will do it 10 years. if we don't attend to this, we'll be visiting some mom. i will put that on your babies. but it's really the truth. don't think it's not true. ah, because they got the deal. see the deal, t federal detention center, the juvenile system, everybody's in the business. ah, and then wait for the education system to fail. our babies so that they go in there . mm. that i don't want to blame deal. see, because it took a whole lot of institutions to get them there. we bail, we fail them in spite of that they've got the flu. ah,

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i use in the news american present, abraham lincoln said a house divided against itself cannot stand this famous phrase appears to apply to

europe today, when it comes to the conflict in ukraine and russia. can there be a united europe without a form the initial you want to pull up. not to get a you can use to put a new one or 2, but you also the was done a you, would you what i see the student bosses though group you lation says use

a gumbo sub ah, headlines for this hour right now. and i see as president putin has been meeting with his fellow russian counterpart in mint, where they discussed defense, military corporations, bilateral ties and energy. the south african president celebrates reelection, was the head of the countries the ruling party for a 2nd time despite some of corruption allegation and improve when police raid opposition party offices. while bolden 20 people die in antique government demonstrations. that's how it western apartments reaffirm support for the country's new in battle president with.