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a, [000:00:00;00] a with hello and welcome to cross are all things considered? i'm peter labelle, american president abraham lincoln say, a house divided against itself cannot stand. this famous phrase appears to apply for europe to day when it comes to the conflict and ukraine and russia. can there be a united europe without russia? ah, discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess,

martin j america. he is an award winning journalist and commentator. and here in moscow we have exhibit miro, he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strap. all right, gentleman crossed acton was in effect, that music in germany. tell me one, and i would appreciate it when i start out with martin. and i think we would all agree that at least formally, europe is united in seeing russia defeated in ukraine. ok when lose, but then you go down a level and well, what is that really mean? and that is really which plaguing the western world and their approach to this conflict. because you have president the french president, my crown you have, the german chancellor shows talking about vaguely talking about what has to happen after the conflict. they're not really do dwelling too much on the minutia how they get there. now, you know the baltic republican pole and you have the check republic their top there

are basically no talks, no contact, no future. and we, famously, we had a deputy, a foreign minister in poland saying that russia doesn't even deserve security guarantees. so this is where we stand, i would say this is not a winning strategy for the west. no, it's not loading stress you. i mean, there's a great deal of somebody about in the dog search for the black cap in the black room on the black chair which doesn't exist. and i think that the problem we've got is that the more we look at the current conflict within the dimension of european union, morrissey, division division, which has been around for quite a long time. you know, we talk about old europe and new europe. you know, that's an argument was actually about the bronze age. some people might say that us the comparison, we should meet with the union. but you know, more recently, i think it was don't room schools who said the interesting the old europe when he was referring to eastern european countries, supported the americanization of iraq in 2003 and, and the urban union of france and germany didn't. i think that's probably for most

people sort of reference, but you know, that's where that's where there's a real division within so called foreign policy. if we can imagine if we, if we will do your opinion and has a foreign policy of some sort. so we've got a real problem with division. most of the eastern european countries are going along with a plan, which they don't really believe in real worries about because i thinking much more the longer term rushes and, you know, and also many of these countries when they joined the european union launched most of them joined 2004, a couple of joy later in 2006. i was brussels mac come with it. it was interesting that hardly any got any say whatsoever in terms of how the joint. whereas france, you know, had a real, a field day in there in the french exception of all the rules that it was to do on germany as well as we've been worried about franco. german acts just for very long time. the expansion into each new was supposed to compromise, but franka german actually still hasn't happened. the frontage,

human actions is still the old argue is even more germanic whenever, you know. but a lot of these eastern european countries are really starting to wake up now about what the real deal is. most of them are atlanta says, most of them are much alliance america. and to nights on a very, very worried about the european union, flexing its muscles and goes to play one day having its own army and is on foreign policy because god knows what would happen in ukraine if that were to happen. so, you know, there's so many of us on the horizon for us to look at so many political conundrums to tackle, but no one has the on. so these idea that these guys in the west know what's going to happen like this, the idea that they have an end game is notices that only have a present game that i will argue little bit later that russia does have an end game . and that's what it makes it, that's the difference in this conflict. ok, exactly. so it's very interesting is if you look at the baltic, republics,

you look at poland and i'm really glad that martin brought up the franco german axis is that they're not appealing to paris. or to berlin, they're always appealing to washington. and this is say that russia divide here, but no, this is what it's about here. it's the u. s. the u. s. keeps the franco german alliance on one side. and it pushes the new europe on another, which of course, is inherently to visit that. actually the point is that the u. s. want to war, but not against russia, against or europe again. so you print economy is to say, is germany economy, because we are on the, on the, on the brink of, of an economic disaster. if you look at the travel reference robert, to united states, he was supposed to get a drop in the us gas prices. it didn't get it, and the u. s. guys process is 4 times more expensive than the written one. it was supposed to dissuade joe biden from i brings plan to support the u. s. economy. it

didn't get it. it was, it just has the right to say that it was, it was all the fault of russia and ready to put in. and if you look out, you are talking about a short look at the trouble of shoulds in china is a complete with. well, it didn't get anything. and no, you have german, the comic because we are about to sell. some are chinese cars and you have a european union, a continuing to texas. it all decisions such as the end of the heat engine was the chinese as a 1st place for the production of any cars. so we are on the brink of then you can be just there because of stupid, you know, your pin decision and the, the most know that you, you said the right word, stupidity ok. finish it. ok. because because a martin, i'm glad i didn't want, i didn't, hadn't thought about bringing a china here. but the chinese don't even take the europeans seriously. they see what the europeans have done is become publicans to the us or the chinese or say, well,

we have to talk to washington to deal with the europeans. that's essentially what's happening martin here and you know, this is this old argument of multilateral and violence for chinese decided, well, i don't think it just, i don't think for a long time they've been, they've decided that they can work much more successfully talking to you my mistakes on a one to one level, you know, because because again, this lack of critical to, for the, you know, the, is going through a crisis right now. if you look what just happened just the last few days in brussels, we've had the corruption scandal, which was really some shock waves, right across the continent. but the people that weren't the most of the, the die hard of federalists in brussels, who are worried about the long term stability of the project itself. you know, when i was in brussels, my roger tutor, in 1995 from boomers. the moment i arrived all i heard from people work in european commission on the dinner party circuit. was this worry this think they were present

this similar, this metaphor? all for the eve being an old man? no dutchman riding a bicycle. and the worry is that the old medals of the bicycle and back home. and this is really if that was the worry and 995. imagine what the panic on through brussels is right now. so, you know, i mean peace traditionally or your officials were always giving jobs to the friends . we give it contracts to who was political lines them. we've broken the mold now with the middle east and taxes and sending suitcases are 600000 years around. shoot apartments in brussels. i mean, this really does show you the best and worst of the european union if you've got that kind of corruption on that kind of level where people just send you money like somebody might send you pizza, you know, then you know, how long has it been you to god, i would argue that so we're looking at the end game is actually the year itself and

people are starting to panic because they are really for me. the next most important pay for ukraine is 2024 for so many reasons which you probably haven't got time to go into. but the main one is the me that you will have its next real crisis with the lowest vote to turn out of the polls in europe in elections. i'm the highest turn out to saw, right groups. and it gets to the situation with the european parliament as a majority for the 1st on the far right groups. then you've got to complete antithesis. but what your opinion stands. it's interesting that the washington today was to corral and united europe in favor of ukraine. but exactly, the exact opposite is happening, it's the law of, i'm intended consequences. this was supposed to be these people in washington, you know, i mean, i low off came think it was, you know, well, you're not europe, you know, we'll price, they were economy. they'll be dependent on us and will make them be our black in

ukraine. well, it's all in tatters now. exactly. yeah. yeah, because you know, in my opinion, for the west and especially for washington, there was only one plane, a plan, a and there isn't a plan the, the plan a we're going to put, i remember was to say to victoria, no such are never seen, never seen sanctions in russia, so the russian economy will collapse and the people are going to the street. not only will be president and it will be shared the russian territory in different us . exactly. wanted to do the no conservative a little bit in the united states, but it didn't happen. and there is another point that we are, again, on the brink of an economic collapse. but we are in europe, i mean, on the brink of a military collapse. because if you look at the western media, there was a say that we have a ridiculous ammunition to resist probate us from a say we're against russia. so we can't do anything. we can't do an economical.

we're in russia. we have no more ammunition to fight against russia and exactly what cisco twitter, or actually risha doesn't need any more guarantee of security because russia demilitarize in nato. actually, that was what they did in ukraine till the end of this year. they're going to do it . no. again, the 2nd army, the net, to kevin army, and the director. is them actually? yeah, you're, you're absolutely right. and that's why, again, we get always get this projection, you know, talking about loose nukes and all that. it's the west martin that has been talking about the, the possible deployment of a nuclear weapon in this conflict. exactly. for the reasons the exactly just said, is it not only is ukraine being demilitarized nato, whatever. however,

it was in the lines in the 1st place is being depleted as well. it is much more, you know, and also i think the whole argument somebody makes very well a is a very good example of just how much b s were being fed by major in the way about russia being our enemies. if russia was really our enemy, do you think you'd have this depletion of the military stock so quick and so rapidly as it, as it was now, it's faith where she is not our enemy, but it's, excuse me as a convenient enemy for so many political agenda is largely to forward the ambitions of the year. can you know, a nature the name is, you know, you talk about the nukes and nature for me, you know, this talk about nukes is just that. it's only ever going to be talk. and i think everybody's waking up to this reality that nature. ready seems apparently to gain some credibility. ready lost his identity before you or people that mat chromebooks

were making these ridiculous comments about it being brain dead. but it seems to gain a certain amounts of kudos amongst many westerners, but his rescue i would say among the elite, this is an agenda here. okay. alright gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're gonna go to a heartbreak and after that heartbreak, we'll continue our discussion on some real new stay with r t i was actually down safety and embraces naziism as a joke. all of a sudden you're placed in a position where, hey, i can defend myself. now, i don't have to be afraid any watch. on one hand, i'm terrifies that. they're going to find that i'm jewish, but on the other i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and st. john, they're going to have one guy hunched me behind my ear and heard somebody now and the rest of the punches are started. fly in, somebody shouted out died,

you boy die down. point i knew i remember had an indian doctor. they came in and looked and said, there's no medical reason why you should be alive. you to find something to believe, john story, to the story of ho story, victory, and whatever i can do to help him. i would go ah, i think the overall majority, all you crying in sibley will actually reconcile, reconcile themselves to pace. i don't, i don't, i didn't visit them being held hostage by a, i'm sure, and i would try to do not join that there was just any kind of compromise any, any,

any. and then, and to what i need to talk about my re much we can make a lives with ah, welcome back to crossed up. were all things are considered i'm funeral about this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real

a it continue the conversation here. i would argue with the dilemma that really faces the west is how they framed this conflict. when lose. ok, and that is fundamentally wrong. if you want the conflict to come to an end, if they were to take the approach, which i think would be an appropriate approach, because it would talk about a pan european security including russia. but know they've taken the wrong path when lose, they should be that the way out of this for everybody isn't talk about peace. and if you talk about peace, then you find everyone's place in it. and they refused to do that, particularly that low walking thinkers. dalton berkeley cannot get there. ok, you listen to him and he sounds gets, are running. yeah, nato is in crane, but not in the conflict and all this other non no reporter with his worth. his or

her salt is ever ask him a hard question. maybe the question is, why aren't you talking about peace gavia? and the problem isn't it went to foreigners were the, could have help ukraine, you know, maybe it was to make your current fight a little bit longer, that it was supposed to do. but the go. so, so far and to spend all low so, so much money that of course, the defeat of ukraine, which is my, in my opinion, inevitable that if it of ukraine would be the defeat of nato. and actually, i can't answer your question because i don't know when natal, because not a question of kiff anymore. it's question of washington. his question of nato, when they to will be tired. and i was exhausted enough to stop the war in russia because what we look at in russia know that the russian government is ready to have a long war. they're ready to do it. it's not clear, then you would put in a set it in so so and, but the said as soon as you want to talk to, to start negotiating, we are ready. but of course,

because you make us invest more in this war, we will take more part of your credit. because if you remember the 1st a fresh i was about 30000 square kilometers of the both of them. but it didn't control knows. it took hundreds of thousands of square kilometers and the best of his already took as a criminal ticker is already we ask somebody asked, but what about this enchanting of instead, it's depend on the local population. so for the russian, as long as you put them to go to, to continue to invest more in this country, they would take more parts of ukraine. so if the, if the west one to, to save something from ukraine, it has to do with no, maybe they could, they could avoid that, that, that the russia, at least, will pick this up. because in my opinion, physician, a government taking odessa is one of the priority, and it would maybe, maybe take one your mo, but they will take odessa every but i would even,

i would even say cargo as well. oh, yes of. yeah. but a human being there is no doubt for anybody. but are this, i, you know, in my opinion, it's a positive. so you want to say from russia, i mean to, to, to keep these assets, which is very important because it's a, it's a, it's on the, on the black. see i and the last mario polls a lot, bedrooms can it is a low as i will lose or of course nichol i have. and soon in the villas are this are for, for nato, for you credit the and a whole. so, but if they want to set this up from written, it's time to negotiate, it's done to the monitor. i is trying to notify that you bring up the word negotiations. martin, i'm sure you came across the multiple interviews that trout merkel i gave to german media. it confirms everything the 3 of us believe all along is that the germans, the french, they were never committed to

a peace process. what was called mens. okay. so given what we've all said here already today, why would the russians negotiate with any of these people? they've been proven to be complicit? is my lawyers. and it's something that i have talked about personally. i had when we met in saint petersburg, is that russia is going to determine its own security guarantees because there is no one to negotiate with. because russia isn't going to want to do this in 5 years or 10 years time, all over again. this, the outcome of this conflict with russia will determine, will be definitive mark. russia is going the long game as is absolutely right. you know, we're talking about yes, but we're looking at the merkel interview and the recent admission. but there was nothing genuine on the opinion inside, you know, i think it was pretty shocking. a lot of people. yeah, i mean, many people in europe would be shocked by that because there is this default

setting of so many europeans. but you know, the west with basically, you know, good guys and, and everything was gone and all the jungle or whatever. but cool it, you know, that we showed our colors that makes you quite right. you said that makes negotiation like 10 times harder. and the stakes raised 10 times higher, or whatever russia would want ultimate k. you know, it makes it so much further away. and i think your opinion knows that you know, that they know that they're going to share with putin will be very hard because of our whole not because of his particular idea about a piece of the system. but the pin, the pin is, don't want peace. they don't want to give peace a chance to coin that phrase. i think they believe that they can stick it out in the longer term. but look at the depletion of stocks. look at the money that's being given to the ukraine, which is the shipping which use all the time and only biden's going to get his military aid approve. and even if he did, how wrong we go, how long can we, we bail out the ukraine when, if we look at the possibility of

a change of government, america company, assigning republicans in every indication, they're not going to spend the same amount of money. so when russia looks at that dynamic. ready over 24 months, which is a very short period of time, you know, everything seems to be stacked up against the west. but you know, america keeps winning or so this before no shoot, america keeps coming out as the winner, you know, is just go, these are natural gas deals which are piling up. it's got it member states individual exactly on the european union. so exactly where the americans want them divided more device f r a falling apart is a dream for by nice lot of people the way to back isn't it? yeah, but i mean, it's a double edged sword, isn't it? because of course the u. s. is winning, i mean it's really good because it's going to be crazy because you have a buy ministration that have it. lisa wants to appear to be anti fossil fuel. but

at the same time it is, this is the biggest booster of it because it's making so much money in europe. but as a result, europe see productivity goes down. oh, we've got, you know, you talked about and economic meltdown. what is happening right now? what we need is a marshall plan. that's what we need the americans to do. this is not seen europeans, because that's where we're heading to the european union, a load, eastern european countries like poland to leave at the expense of the german, french, italian taxpayers. and it's almost over, i even don't know if a of us ever understand that there are no destroying the german economy and the lever thanks to the gemini, going to be on the higher level that said the serve to live. actually because a, i guess the, your printer phones for poland, it's about 3 percent of g, d, p the g,

d p. so it's minutes. the lea, a, the part of the growing economy in, in poland is because we send them some money from the french taxpayers, from the gym and taxpayers. but we can do that for the german. but because they used to have a strong industry. and we do that because of a such an over in the country like france could survive by burring at low rates, thanks to this from euro. but because it is a solution assets, we have no more from earl. and we can't take credit, a low rates. i'm used to do well, if you bring up a good point because martin, you know, in the mainstream media likes to look at maps that likes graphics, you know, like flying playing the member of the gulf war and all that. ok. but it brings up the most jermaine calling. i mean, you, you can, you can't print money to win this conflict. you can ok, because what you're doing is going and europe's debt obligations are extraordinary

. and the u. s. is catching up. you can't win a conflict just by printing money here. and this is, you know, this is one of the things that i've been focusing on less on the military part. i'm not a military expert, but any ukraine will turn into a failed state before there is a, an outcome, a definitive military outcome on the battlefield in europe is boeing a pace right behind ukraine? it's amazing how europe is the, it's the ukranian ization of europe. martin, like to touch in the middle just but i, you know, i can't help looking at them. it's just because all i see is corruption. you know, when you know western governments dream of the opportunity to illegally subsidize the military. if they can't do it in peace time because of what your rules against up in, in war. you know, we tend to overlook that and what's going on is biter is making 2 or 3. american honest manufactures, you know, the directors multi billionaires who the real estate in bahamas faster than you can

say get the carry on. but you know, what we're looking at now is corruption, it's corruption. it's just expanding beyond any anybody's understanding of it. and when we look at military spending, we see corruption on a grand scale. i'm wondering whether, how this ent, for me and ukraine is much a close war. they see it as the leads, which represents less than one percent in ukraine. and them visions, their ideas about how rich themselves, they don't really that concerned about who keeps control of the claim. they're concerned about their own personal wealth and the lifestyles that they can actually sustain. and so it's a one percent versus 9 percent scenario. and most people in the western understand, i don't want to touch on that because it's the same elitist idea in brussels as well. you know, people are thinking about the launch longevity of the, of these amazing jobs. they hold in europe in parliament, europe, and commission. but hold on your hat. we've got 5 whole years of macro, the most naughtiest wackiest you federalists, we had,

and my predictions i'm going to go on the record. he is the best candidate, the most likely candidate for european commission or european council president in 2029 slow way away. but that's, this is where we're heading. exactly. and in the last 30 seconds, go ahead and not just don't, in my opinion, russia will one, these were the only question. it's to me, i mean, this war against nato. and the only question that really wanted to warn on the 1st, on the economy cool point of view on the military point of view. this is my is my only question and i can't answer. no, but of course risha will win because the time is working for for risha. yeah, i mean, when i was a few months ago, i think martin, i asked you, who's got the cotton, who's got to talkin. you told me both. i had asked you whether guess it's a week that and they all said the same thing. i'm sure you weren't colluding with them, but i think that you know this, this whole western now false narrative, like russia gave weapons of mass destruction, the hunter,

biding laptop. why people believe this one you grain story, when all the others were lies? is a mystery to me or i gentlemen, that's all the time we have want to take my guessing marrakech and here in moscow, i want to think of you as for watching us here to see you next time, remember ah, ah, the joggers archipelago coma the jo san diego garcia, the largest island in the archipelago, is now the location of a very large u. s. military base. you get given met, div our i, to the us government to make a military base and just deported. all of the juggle send people from their country,

so they called returned back on the island. no, no, but we are fighting. let's why i'm fat. we'll fighting for the right. so i, we do not consider that the right to self determination actually applies to the trickle. since and on the question, those self determination of the legal advice we've received is actually the trickle . since we're not at all, not a people for me, it's time to move on and see what we can do. a full, the chunk, the said committee to return back home is knowledge support from the imagination di commission,

african united michigan. don't care about chug restaurant people with ah, the hello and welcome to africa. now this week we focus on the recent human climate change conference that was held in the egyptian resort town of sharon. i'll share nearly 35000 people from 200 countries attended the conference which organizes hell as a barometer for checking global efforts in fighting climate change. however, many commentators say that this conference has become really a show case for the global north and the 1st world west to dictate the politics and economics of climate change. and this is the sentiment that is particularly acutely felt here in africa. i chatted with independent journalists, gary alfonso, who closely monitored the conference and the input of african delegates and asked

him what were the main takeaways for africa from day one, the most expectations they arrived with was to address lawson damage just energy and climate justice. and those were the things they wanted on the agenda, but from day one was very clear that that was not going to happen. i think it was probably best expressed by the chairman of the pan african climate justice alliance, who was very upset from the outset that those issues were not included to be discussed at all during the school 27. the african aspirations were cut it because the what we are calling especially is under circumstances for africa. that it was to define what it would mean by the loss or dropping due to the back of like we did a global goal for the patient as well as an optician finance. it actually is really beneficial to africa,

identify not when the agenda was being said, all africans, while united under the special needs and the 2nd during the agenda setting, we have lost the last. so that means in our last analysis that we have lost. what we came for here saw there majority industrialized countries up there we but we love our see. it said he seems ironic that the conference was held here in africa when you consider that the competing missions from africa are far less than carbon emissions from western countries. absolutely, and i think all african delegates were very clear and actually spoke with one voice towards the, the western and global north partners about vague climate targets. and also they fossil fuel and energy, the own rules that they apply to themselves globally. and,

and i think at the some baldwin delegation expressed at so well when they pointed out that none of the international partners, particularly western and european countries, have submitted any targets to, to, to cope $27.00. since it started, which means they not playing by the rules, but, but african leaders, or african countries are supposed to play by the rules. they, african countries, submitted their missionary determined contributions their disease without vicious targets. but now comes the time. when we are that level in the developed countries, we're also supposed to submit their ambitious august, if not denzil. moreover, they failed to meet their obligations under the kyoto protocol. from 1997 up, it went where they were supposed to just to reduce their emission by 5 would 2 percent of what do a meeting in 1990. they did not mondays to meet these obligations. men in to say

a, this war issue or form slowing down the rigid route. we are mitigating our climate is going to cause dia, indeed it's to problems to the entire world, entire environment. because you already, we may see some big city, big certain, also from those will put on the table. very, i vicious, i talked this under the missionary determined contributions. certainly it seems as if there was a double standard of play. would it be fair to sum up and say that african leaders came away very disappointed from this conference that essentially there was nothing in it for them? none of them that arrived, they had expected to be excluded to such an extent. buyers by the western alliances and the people that control the economics on the politics of cop 27. and i think one at the same point was made by a delegation from, from kenya who pointed out that the one thing that still remains an overriding

issue is the fact that in africa, people still produce many of the re elements that are needed for smart and clean entities in the future and africa again, being excluded from that because it's purely about politics and economics for the north. if congress becomes the producer of the storage capacity by way of betsy, for the transition to see the continent of africa is incredibly blessed with the new energy potential. it's blessed with the reg critical minerals that the transition requires. now instead of cobra extracting or rather multinational companies extracting this minute or form can go on a, b, b, o, any other applicant, country, and exporting. and then the continent importing the finished product a tire course. we should actually all the technology that is going to help power the transition in the rest of the world. so the entrapment that we have in the

continent of africa and this is actually a structural deficiency. we export low value added commodities and visit can use our very limited foreign exchange to pot finished product at the higher cost. and so if you look at all the results, if it's after the extract accruing the greater benefit, it must multi nationals. one of the main issues that came up at the conference with climate change. this is a truly felt by farmers in africa who are struggling with unpredictable weather changes and having to come up with innovative ways to grow the crops. johan kind of is a successful south african farmer with a background in mechanical engineering. he is pine near the way, for tunnel farming in the country by using greenhouses like this one, he controls temperature. i mean, that way he can control the environment of his crops without, at farmers like him on left at the mercy of climate change. and it's devastating

impact me and my wife stood on the know a carport and cry out, when you start ailey, you know, and you see a crop that was growing up for, for 5 months and is ready to office. and all of a sudden, to the foreman, that is what you've been a farmer since $994.00. has the weather changed a lot in the sense that it's actually impacted the way you foam? well, you realize that you, that you have to stay in step with a climate that that is for sure, you know, because all of a sudden, you know, you have to take into account, you met at the you know, the, the heat, the cold, the suns in things deep. all we adapting to the climate change, are we using technology or are we very far behind? we are very far behind because there's too much talk about everything. but the problem to deal with the problem. your hon creates a heating and cooling systems. the ideal environment for his crops, they grow based on a controlled humidity and light,

which protects them against frost, heat and rain. that technology makes climate change more manageable. right now you have the world leaders meeting in egypt to discuss climate change. do you think that those kind of meetings achieve anything or the real results are farmers like yourself who are working on the ground and making a difference? i will tell you on this through what they babbling about, means nothing to the people in the get out. the farmer is the guy that comes either auntie by the c e. i might a lot of mistakes here and, but i think that was the teacher writings. and no one of those guys will come here and be able to form this. i think once you get us but, and you have to try this. no, it's, it's quick. so this could be the future for africa. of course. of course you can,

this is so specialized course, the amount of fruit, the amount of return on investment that you can get from this is not compatible with evan 45, fake this open field outside. you know, because once they trained in this, you know, they will be sought after climate change has altered an unprecedented rain in some parts of africa, while drought is destroying other regions. 21000000 people will be dead by the end of february because of famine and dropped. i'm joined now by doctor. yeah, actually a pediatrician from somalia. doctor, thanks so much for joining us. what is the situation right now in your hospital often but really are probably teaching i was a kid law. so the vehicle. ready

that. ready was was. ready promos, doctor will look now at pictures we received of children in your hospital. what is their fate was walking several miles to the hospital for mother said that they have to. ready wait, all of our world law sources. very limited. again, other sources are very limited. we are losing a lot of a lot of issues. and i last because most of the late and run their life,

we have short of life. and our hospital. is there any hope for these mom nourished and dying children, or is it already too late? let us know how to somebody in our money they. ready they promised. ready not a lot of mine is nora and agriculture experts and economists from kenya. dr. thanks for joining us. this recent cop conference. will it have any impact, particularly on the ground here in africa? the be got you but, but he does and if you don't have the big us on book, even if you come up with very, very key and principal programs to be implemented in terms of mediation in terms of the titian in towns, you know, answering to catastrophe that we are in ogden,

we are speaking to see dr. the fact that this conference was held in africa is that a positive or a negative for the continent right from the seventy's, a number of african countries i started to see and major they ride in. so, you know, got the wrapping between what they're producing and where they are consuming and increasing the, depending on, in africa. we talked to the, you know, spans about that the $5000000000.00 a mean for, for the. so you can imagine if we will key and only the impact that we are seeing is that of climate change a better situation. but if you're coming in in a situation where you have a widening gap or your population growing, it has only made a bad situation, was an african governments must then been seriously. dr. thank you so much for your time. while the waist continues to preach clean energy to africa and itself does the opposite. countries like south africa have no choice but to continue to use

fossil fuels to power the coal stations for electricity. this is the cheapest and most readily available power source at the country has, but lack of maintenance and bad governance is leaving south africa literally in the dark. the term lo, trading has become commonplace. and what it means is that the national good will provide power to some areas that only one area at a time, because it cannot provide power to south africa as a whole. now the former c o. s. com, south africa's utility grid, explained why this is the case every minute, every 2nd, you need to match the demand with the supply. once this mismatch, the entire system become unstable. so, so that's the really, the, the big issue now locating or case where you see demand, which is higher than the supply. so you shave the excess demand and each

so that your power system is able to supply the reduced demand so that the impacts system is stabilized. so this it, you know, this is an entity called the system operator which or the minute 2nd by 2nd just watching this balance. and if they see that it's going to be in balance, then they, you know, they begin to tell everybody to shut down the i. m your supply your most to municipalities. so that began with him to switch off. second, loads so that we can balance the, the supply demand and keep the, the past and stick. this family of 7 is typical of life to day in south africa. is the flesh okay? i can bring relate to him real quickly. each day the sisters don't have electricity for at least 2 hours, but sometimes as much as 8,

and it's getting worse. often there's no warning, the power is about to cut, which leaves them with outlined to do homework. amongst other things, despite once having one of the world's most advanced power supply networks, south africans increasingly find themselves returning to using candles, tortures, and perfumed stoves for cooking. i have to take my phone. if your phone have it, if the bed 3 data around one or 2, it meant to night, you will wait until in the morning so that you can be able to look lunch as you and even more stressful is perishable. foods that go rotten, if not connected to electricity, i have to took them. i have to to quite a my fritchie and my washing machine to my neighborhood so that i can be able to buy it enough enough food for the whole month. imagine if i have to go and buy to katie every day of her meet,

you have to beg people with asked pace, heartbreaking. the family's reality is saved by as many as 600000000 people in africa who still do not have access to electricity. many of them don't even know what plugins i asked. it's comes jacob, morocco about this. came back to the military. things like put us in coal and you know, for cooking and so and so forth. but those are the kind of solutions that we'd be need to look at to say with the current technologies that are beginning to be available, for instance, gas and renewables. solar, how can we begin to focus and relieve, especially at the lower end of the income. one of the solutions, of course, could be nuclear, is the something that we would support in the context of climate change and fossil food being, you know, being reduced. yes, the renewables is going to take a big space. but nuclear is

a big carbon free solution in many countries actually either bringing up a back from multiple nuclear plant or actually plenty to, to build one regular plant. because that's also part of the biggest solution in dealing with climate change back in 2015. it seemed as though we were ready to see an agreement between south africa, russia, with regards to nuclear corporation and then excel, by the way. why did that agreement not happen, and is they the oppertunity now for it to happen? i think the dynamics of the time, i think it was cost for the nuclear plan that we're looking at. but i think the time is opportunity to revisit because when you look at options in south africa, we've got co renewables is not going to fill the entire gap. we don't have gas of our own snacks. we have nuclear station already. so nuclear being a solution for that, i figure it's a valid solution. yes, you mentioned when you are both of course, and this is

a big topic at the or it was a big topic. you mentioned renewables, of course. this was a big topic at the recent cup. climate conference in channel shack, in what way is, or are renewables realistic for south africa? and for africa, let's talk mostly, what are the renewable options? it's solar is wind. in south africa, we do have hydro of solar compared to, for instance, europe. so that is an option renewables of going to limit the intermittent, they are not dispensable. so you still need dispensable pos of fossil fuel. nuclear . hydro gives you what is called respectable. this is that live, so it was not going to solve the problem. technology will evolve, you know, where we bring it back to storage and other forms of storage. but for now, we still need a lot of fossil. and still

a nuclear will still be part of the because solutions for energy. the situation seems desperate in some way in south africa. in coal mining, not just a quick solution to providing what people need for me for the next 10 to 1520 years . we still need to depend on coal. we've got a lot of cold, got a lot of power stations that are still in, in good nick. so. so while we're looking at conditional technologies, we still depend on code and make sure that our past system is stable until we find technologies which will allow us to, to begin to transition to low emission technology. and it, western countries are putting pressure on south africa and other countries not to go to coal mining. what is your, what, what are your thoughts on this? many people have talked about the proxy, especially after the, you know, the,

the conflict with ration in cayden. and the guess is where most western european countries actually begin to scramble cross our african coal. if the comes to us is where they want to pay for africa. to unpack the call that i think the book, the hypocrisy, that when things when, when things fall apart, people make sure that the secure fest and i think that's the key. we need to be very careful in falling for solutions that are not sustainable based on the interest. so i think that's the thing that i think that africa should be very careful about the western democracies than the western civilizations. and the economists would build on fossil foot the powerful today because they built the economy. so fossil flips and the emitting economists like china, india also building the industrial base on fossil fuels, africa, would you say at the lowest end of development should be allowed to use and they 2

solutions that can help them develop and move up the chain. that's the 1st, the 2nd thing is, when you look at the emissions of africa compared to the world, africa as a portales only need about 4 percent, right? so the biggest emitters are still western europe, the u. s. and of course, china is amazing, but africa, so africa has been pressurized to limit their fossil fuel, in circumstances where the alternatives are still not mature. to run modern economy is also a historic issue. you see, climate change is not cost with what to a meeting today. flemish changes cost what is cumulatively, in the atmosphere over the past 250 years of industrialization and the industrial revolution, particularly of the west. so, so, so africa connected very little to that. in fact, now, i mean one topic which i think is good coming up pretty 7 is the issue of who should pay for reparations of the effect of climate change. you know, the flooding that we've seen, who should pay for that. and the,

the idea that the western countries who contributed mostly to the emission, should actually have a front to, to deal with the effect of climate change. i think is a positive thing coming up out of cobb county 7. do you think we could see africa distancing itself or putting up more resistance to western pressure on these issues? i don't think more resistance or things just mean more assertive in a to clayton positions, but also begin to say when we partner with the west because they have the resources there for the money. be clear and drive that partnership that focuses on things that work for africa, but also do not make the emissions west and the opportunities to do that. so i think most assertiveness and been clear what africa once been united has a voice and looking at, for instance, what china is doing. china's being affective, to say, look at the stage of development as we put people out of poverty. this is the image

choices that we are we have, you know, we put want to of course there was some cop comfort in channel sharon egypt. do you have confidence that the discussions and the resolutions that come out of that conference actually can be fruit and africa? are they in touch with the reality of what's going on on the ground? you see the conference itself, i think is a good thing for people to come together. but the problem is that is not obligatory . i mean it's, you know, it's cooperation and people do it out of their own volition and people can opt in and updated. we have seen america of in and then out of quote, kyoto. we've seen america with the paris accord the way in and they went out. so it's a thing that people can go in and go out. china is a big meter. it's not committing much. and so, so, so i think this is a good puts but where they do deliver when the big promise of major reduction in c, o. 2 emissions. i don't see, i don't see that happening because i think it still, you know,

interest commercial interest and leading the bigger agenda incorporated and the pressure or whatever the right word you face from the west to think we will see africa standing up more towards that and saying, we need to go this route regardless of what western countries are telling us. i think if africa gets united, and if africa also begin to partner with other other origins like asia, because for instance, india and felicia, the statement that says via they will not be present in reducing or not increasing their coal usage until they've the particular level of development, i think those kind of voices that are pushing back to the west and africa should actually partner more in heavy it is fully boys to the west to see where we we need to develop. and then when, when we are at a particular point, we can begin to see how we mitigate. and we can reduce our c, o, 2 and russia. do you see russia playing a, a growing role with african countries?

we are in this current energy dynamic because, you know, russia resources, i mean, this is the top am country with, with, with natural gas resources. so it's going to play a big part in the energy of lucian going forward and how russia place, you know, it's, it's a role in the developing nations and in its own role in the politics of energy. i'm going to be a big sector, how, you know, the big countries also begin to look at themselves as a brock, to talk about energy in the job. all it takes of energy with wind voice. i think it will have a big impact in the world. yes. for 2 weeks, delegates to cop 27 deliberate and debated and search for answers while sipping on chilled men will water. a world away from the draft on the doorstep. for africans the conference has come and gone. and this situation on the ground remains as desperate as ever will continue to bring you the true story here and our weekly

african now show. thank you so much for joining us and feel free to drop us a line with suggestions, questions or feedback from me and the team until we meet again, goodbye. the news is actually found in the embraces. naziism is a joke. all of a sudden you're placed in a position where, hey, i can the thing myself. now i don't have to be afraid anymore. on one hand, i'm terrified that they're going to find that i'm jewish, but i'm the other. i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and st. john, they're going to have one guy, punch me behind my ear center and somebody else. now the rest of the punches are started. flying in, somebody shouted out died, you boy die down. point i knew i remember had an indian

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