the the, the news, the news news, it's very difficult to be a whistle blower, especially when thought goes into the decision. the stakes are very high, particularly when the national security is involved. in almost all such cases, the whistleblower faces the prospect of losing friends of having co workers turn on him and even the loss of relationships with family members. but add to that the hostility from the f b i c i a and even the white house. it's one of the most daunting decisions any person could ever make. i'm john to reaku and you're watching the whistleblowers,

the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 welcome to the whistleblowers. i'm john kerry auto. today we're going to look at a u. s. national security whistleblower case that is ongoing as we speak. this is the case of steven friend an f. b. i. agent who recently blew the whistle on an increasingly politicized f. b i. for his trouble, the 12 year f, b i, veteran and member of the f. b. i's. special weapons and tactics team was stripped of his gun and his badge and escorted out of the building. let's start this story from the beginning. stephen friend did exactly as he was instructed to do when he made a complaint to the f b. i inspector general saying that the f b, i's leadership, has become increasingly politicized. he offered proof that the f, b, i's washington dc field office was exaggerating the threat of domestic terrorism, even calling parents who complained about educate curricula in their children's

schools. potential terrorists, he argued that many of the f b i's targets were having their civil rights and civil liberties violated in the specific incident that led to his whistle blowing. steven friend was ordered to participate in a raid in daytona beach, florida, where the f b. i was going to arrest people who were alleged to have committed misdemeanors, minor crimes. he told his leaders that this violated f b. i regulations and constituted an illegal use of force. he said that he had taken an oath to uphold the constitution, and that he would not participate in an ill legality. that was the end of his career. we are privileged today to have with us f b. i whistle blower, steven friend steven, welcome to the show. thank you very much for having it. we're very glad to have you and i'd like to begin with something that your attorneys have said to the media in some quarters you've been wrongly painted as a right wing extremist. your attorneys have told the media that your whistle

blowing is very simply not a partisan issue. you didn't vote for donald trump in 2020 elections. instead, you had a genuine concern for protecting the civil rights and civil liberties of americans . and you took, took your oath to the constitution seriously. was this your calculation that americans, civil liberties and civil rights were being violated? but nobody was doing anything about it without question. that's, i've always said about myself that i'm a centrist, and that the constitution is the only thing that really matter to me was go from a personal politics standpoint and also just from a professional standpoint. so when i had the opportunity to look into some of the january 6 investigations and realized people were doing this. so. ready on how to step with the rules, i really grew on my heart strings in that regard because the due process clause in the 6th amendment and the cool unusual punishment and the 8th amendments are in

there. and that's what i brought to the attention to my supervisor when i made my disclosures. why when the f b, i fire you when you made a legally protected whistleblower disclosure, just as you were trained to do, you didn't go to the media. you didn't even go to the congressional oversight committees. you didn't have the, the chance you went to the f b i inspector general, which is exactly what you were supposed to do. so why the heavy handed punishment? well, when i can tell they disagree with my assessment of the situation and they tried to create a situation where they never divorced the 2 aspects of me making my disclosure, which they repeatedly told me was allowed. and i could do. but they, from their perspective, said i was refusing to do my job and they repeatedly said to refuse into your job, right? is that what you're saying? right? and i always contradicted that and said that my job is to protect and defend the

constitution of the united states. so there was a disagreement in that regard. and when the rubber kind of met the road and unstoppable force meeting, they had to use the elephant gun to kill the mouse tactic they like to do when it comes to security clearance. right. so they found ways to suspend my security plans because doubt that clearance you, you can't be enough asian. so actually on my suspension document that i got from the human resource division, i listed a few things, one of which being my refusal to participate in lawful arrest, which was the january 6th, which again i didn't refuse to pay. and i said that i had a conflict of interest, conscientious objection and spoke to them about that. and then them, and secondarily, once i was fearful that i was going to be disciplined, i got legal representation in my attorney asked me to require the f, b, i handbook,

and some disciplinary procedures for him to mount my defense. so when i did that, they said that i am probably access the system that would do that, even though that information is unclassified. ridiculous. many of us like to think that the u. s. government has made great progress on whistleblower protections. over the past 15 or 20 years. congress passed the whistleblower protection act of course. but unfortunately, national security and federal law enforcement whistleblowers are exempt from its protections. there have been other whistleblowers from the f b i before you most notably calling rally jane turner, fred white hurst, what is your case say about the failure of the government to protect its whistleblowers. why do you think national security whistleblowers still aren't protected? i think national security just like a lot of things. it's this huge, encompassing force that you know, the f, b, i and the federal government at large kind of be on it is get out of jail free card

. so, you know, if it spying on people or you know, my case, it's sort of just crushing down on a, with a lower or a legitimate concern. they're just always going to lean on that crutch up its national security. and that's, you know, guided them in their decision making. it's certainly don't walk with them on the financial side because the funding for national security is limitless. and that's the default the perspective they always are going to have until there's real reform, you know, within the whistleblower community. stephen, i recently found myself in kind of a strange position where i had been offered what i thought was the job of a lifetime. i accepted that job and within weeks i realized that the company's leadership was engaging in fraud and money laundering. so i resigned and i took thousands of pages of documents with me on a thumb drive. and then through my attorney, i contacted the f. b, i here in washington, we went to the f. b i's washington field office. it was very,

very difficult to get a meeting, but i finally got in front of an f b i agent. just minutes after i began explaining what i had and what i wanted to turn over to the f b i the f b i agent interrupted me and he said no offense. but if this doesn't have the word terrorism attached to it, we're not interested. my attorney and i walked out and to the best of my knowledge that company continues to engage in fraud and money laundering. what has happened to the f b i? what is this focus on terrorism? and frankly, who defines terrorism at the f b i i think that the, the focus on terrorism is in there's a couple component. certainly in your case with the financial and my background investigating violent crime. i, we went ahead interactions with prosecutors and even we get the asians anything with dollars. and then some numbers. the immediate assumption is going to be very

complicated, very complex and very to those agents and they just don't want to take on that challenge. and people really admit that because they're supposed to be representing the premier law enforcement agency and really the, the root of the f, b i or white color criminal work. and that's why i was an accounting major in college. i was one of the skills that was why i was recruited, and i think that after 2001 and 911, the, the wallets were opened up significantly when it came to national security. and just the intelligence state. and then military for that matter, just have this blank check when they have unlimited funds and, and certainly my experience in the government shrinking any, anything in government or suggesting that we're going to do away with a better ticket or program. it's really not the best route to want to elevate. it's always proposing something new and expanding. and just putting that national security label on top of that page is just kind of gets you

a lot more or less roadblocks and bumps in the road. so i think that's a huge part of it. and then on and also the, the f b i work in the glove of federal prosecutors. and a lot of those folks, you know, are lifetime workers and they're doing good work. but other ones are just shrew conditions. and want to have that high pain defense attorney job after a few years in the us attorney's office. and they will say to me, in large cities, do not bring a case to me unless it's x amount of threshold. so you know what, chicago, it must have a $1000000.00. we're not touching it. take it over to the state, take it over to levels. well, because they're just kind of drowning in homicides. they're not going to be older. they're battery ok. what's, you know, threat to liking it ahead about an answer. and so what happens is it just lingers until the statue runs out and it's just never aggress. you're watching the whistle blowers, we're going to take a short break and then returned to our conversation with api. i whistleblower stephen friend stay to. 2 2

2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah ah, he's talking about the quote if she's just a good asshole, she'd do it to work on your voice keyboard which manually bought because a lot of what he says, not a simple denial for maria, a foot eco, i just. yeah, i just a 10 minute left when you read what you post to pollute video like you know what my choice talk did when you are. so the choice is just a

stick with to mr. she was jenny william lou, lou, do you suppose to work with them here? it's no, it's not would you? but as it will, you can with the most money still to with the clear with a number of national article. can you post cookie? bit slow, i'll make them cookie. the wasn't going to ship them yet from fair share, especially by the same with

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race who is on a very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful at a critical time. time to sit down and talk i welcome back to the whistleblowers. i'm john kerry. aku were speaking with f. b. i . whistleblower steven friend who complained about the police is ation of the f. b i and the f b. i's lack of respect for americans. civil rights and civil liberties. the case isn't over, but so far it looks like he's paid, frankly, for his honesty with his job. we're going to talk about that. welcome back, steven steven, let's drill down a little bit into what you've revealed. you said that you were a member of the f

b i squad that investigated and targeted pedophile and sex traffickers. but you were taken off that assignment and made to investigate people who had participated in the protest at the capital building on january 6th, 2021. i'm not talking about writers necessarily. you were told to investigate, in some cases, perhaps arrest people who had participated peacefully. you told your supervisor on 2 separate occasions that you had a moral and ethical problem with this. you believe that the f b i was violating demonstrators 6 the 8th amendment rights. you told your supervisors that your previous work against pedophile and sex trackers was of course more important. and so you were fired or at least suspended. is there a broader message here that we should take from this? what is the message that you think this action conveys? to the rest of the f b i workforce well, i think they would like any large organization,

they have to develop priorities. so when it came to me personally, i felt really, really strongly about the importance of doing a child pornography investigation were right. but i alternately told them that i'm a team player and i'm not going to say i'm refusing to do this work and i was assigned the top line to work domestic terrorism. so when i was rolled into that my got a little more familiar. it was my understanding that most of that was january 6, wasn't specifically generated, but it was kind of unspoken thing. i think the writ large workforce, do you really just not getting seriously? if you're just a number for executive management and they're, they're kind of plugging all their moving chair pieces around the board really without regard for a particular skill set or passion or anything. and that's part of the job. and i never somebody else whether except and i certainly wasn't gonna refused to do the

work. my, my problem was it has to be done the right way. and if the f b, i can be operating outside of the rules, you know, whatever the motivations for that are. and i have my own survive my own theories on why they were operating outside the domestic destination operate since guide. if you call them on that, they're going to be really quick to turn on you and find any way they can suppress information from coming out. and really just removing you, being an impediment to whatever their agenda is. absolutely. i went through the same thing after, after i revealed the torture program, i'm interested to know what the reaction from your colleagues has been when i blew the whistle on the sea ice torture program way back in 2007. i was very pleasantly surprised by the number of my former colleagues who reached out to me to express support. they couldn't do that publicly, of course, but the fact that they got in touch was a source of strength for me. how is it been with you?

have you found yourself with the support of your friends and colleagues? it's been a mix bad. i've had a lot of retired special agent too. i've never worked with new, reached out racial friends and i just are social media. that's one of the positive things i think social media provide. so i had a huge, according to work from them and they made really inviting me to a lot of their inner circles. i've become familiar with terra and who's the other f . b. i was lower and he's introduced me to others, but for the exception of a couple of agents that keep their friends in the f b, i really, it's been radio silence from them. it's been pretty disheartening. i said this a couple times when i came forward and i knew this is going to be a difficult fight. alternately knew that i was but my career on the line and just had to accept that. and i had this image in my head that i was going to be in captain america at the end of the vendors and game. and i was gonna be rude. and

then just went all over the law that were here on your left. and i look over and there will be all these men and women of the f, b i the rank and file on my side. and that's just not come to happen. and it's unfortunate to me, it's really maybe disillusion about get yeah, sure. but you can sleep at night. stephen, what are the next steps for you? you are out there giving interviews were very grateful for this one. i've seen that you're active on linkedin, you're looking for work. it's clear to me that you understand that this is going to be a process, it's going to take some time. so in the meantime, what are you looking to accomplish? do you want to go back to the f b i or do you want it admission from the f b i that you've been wronged? and also, do you have congressional support? senators chuck grassley, ron johnson, ron wyden are generally very good on federal whistleblower issues. are they being helpful? yeah, meeting after that graph plan. johnson there for support of the issued

a letter. you will be turning general on to the f. b i, director on my behalf and asking some very specific questions and then interesting that i be reinstated that fall on deaf ears. it wasn't surprising to me. you being the f b, i was really my dream job. i really love the work. i always wanted to do it. and having opportunity for the 8 years was really a didn't come through just coming home every night and having my, my young songs just be my band was, was live in my best life. i am pragmatic and realistic. i know that going back at this point is going to be sure and just and really, you know, i'm not a position or power to negotiate, you know, for them to bring me back. but if in a perfect world in a vacuum, certain reforms are made. i could see myself doing that, but i also don't see that come to pass. so in the meantime, i'm just going to speak out as much as i can to make sure this information reaches the widest possible audience. because i do think it's very important. regardless of

who you put the letter for a week ago, i hear an american citizen and you need to know what your government is doing. so that's, that's my goal from the standpoint. and that's why i'm speaking to the media directly about my complaint and professionally. i had dormant linkedin account that way kind of be more active so i could hope to okay. new employment because she's, she was actually late actually after my my then she came down again. have my own suspicions about the nature of that. so we're both point to young kids in our later thirty's and, and i have some career changes, so i'll just put my resume out and anybody who wants so somebody can always talk. she's triggered. yeah. in demonstration integrity. i think that's a pretty good resume. an answer for me, and i'm hopeful that miguel worship we've seen news in the major media outlets.

cnn fox, politico, the hill, it's all over washington that there are at least a dozen other f b. i. agents who have gone to speak to senator ron johnson, staff or the staff of representative jim jordan of ohio, who's going to take over the the house, the chairmanship of the house investigations committee. are we talking about the same kind of information that these other whistleblowers are going to capitol hill to discuss? or is this something that separate from what i understand we are as a wide variety, it's not necessarily tied to january. i've talked to a couple of them. one is with pertaining to the use of social media, specifically facebook and inspiring on individuals and giving that information over to the other concerned the the labeling of parents at school board meetings. so it's really

a cornucopia of issues. i think it's just that's why i thought a lot of people would come for it once i did, i thought the dam. busy actually going to break teams that they've kind of sealed it up a little bit more now, but i'm hopeful that with change over at least on the gamble in january to come from jordan. and he's going to want to go after these, these issues a little more aggressively that maybe we'll see that there's a little bit of a calorie there to support us and also support whistleblowers legally. you know, i've worked with the empower oversight. i was really fortunate congressman jordan's office, cash me to to edition boss or empower oversight. and without doubt, i really would've been hung out to dry or something like that could become more public. we knowledgeable, i think folks will we're comfortable out for new formation or regardless of it's january 6 or anything else. right. let me ask you actually a follow up about that after i blew whistle on the torture program back in 2007,

i did a lot on capitol hill that the media didn't cover the media didn't know about. i was asked to testify privately before the the senate armed services committee, for example. i went over to the house side to talk to the house intelligence committee. are you getting these kinds of requests from staff members? the people who make capitol hill run on a day to day basis to they want to know the background to this case, the kinds of things that would go into a proper capitol hill investigation. so i talked to the staff per bolt center, johnson and grassley, and that was that information is compartments there letters. i've talked multiple times with congressman jordan staff, and i believe the information i provided to them was tied to his page report. so i and since it's not going to change hands, i don't expect to have any in committee requests next year from that side. i would walk of it. i really want them to look into this,

but i'm also realistic. i didn't get conversely, jordan will probably try to bring that too ahead, but he's also got most all number of issues that he can be looking into. so i'm hoping to participate that i'm hoping to work with the staff. certainly when i have talked them that they really receptive the right now, not too much interaction with congress, obviously they were working on their election. so i think they all got a little sidetracked, right. as far as me, i basically had agreed to speak with anybody who would like to and it's really been mostly conservative media that has reached out to me. i was fortunate that matter. maybe i came in and did a long, long form interview with may. and there's during the multiple piece exposure to me, the problems with the f b i and he released that last week and he certainly something we have left. i talked to jane turner, her podcast, and i think she, she probably means left as well. so again, the politic situation, no matter to me,

it's just that i'm really concerned about an audience. you know, across the board having this information at their fingertips because it's important . it is important. you're doing the right thing. what can the rest of us do to help you and other whistleblowers or to help and encourage others considering becoming whistleblowers? this is a long and very difficult road. what advice would you give them to make the experience a little bit easier? i i, i kinda came into this totally brush. i didn't know the process i and certainly the . busy the agencies are not going to process very readily available because they don't want problems coming to the lights the reason way. so, you know, as i've learned more, i've been trying to extend that information to others of them. you know, they do decide you do the right way, the right process themselves and, you know, call up and anything. me personally, i just continue to hear this message from what you said. i'm just going to keep talking because i know i have the facts and constitution on my side wall on my side

. so no need to hammer the table when you have the back and the law. and then also just career opportunities. and that's really the scary thing. you know, my wife and i, you know, we were, we were scared, you know, we did the right thing. i would never per 2nd have done anything different again, occurred to me that i had any other options other than to do with the job that was in front of me, which was to protect the constitution. so you know, at this point it's a little bit of a stress on us. we have a great family network and certainly local to been charitable and offer to support us. but i'm not looking for a handout. i just, somebody, once you are honest days work and i've had a couple of reach out and i'm hoping that we have more because you know, the more opportunity to get the better for us. we're pretty well transfer. we are. we're definitely open to relocate, be fantastic. i want to thank our guest, steven friend,

and i want to wish him well in this experience. and thank you to our viewers for joining us. whistle blowing is a tough decision. the truth tellers life changes for ever and rarely for the better . but there's a bigger issue at play here. it's the issue of honesty and integrity. author william faulkner once said, never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. if people all over the world would do this, it would change the earth. those are words to live by. you've been watching the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry aku until next time. ah. 2 2 2 ah, lou needs to come to the russian state little narrative. i've told him the most landscape div asking him then i'll

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