ah, a town welcome to was a party. 3 years ago at this time of the year in the world was living its last care 3 days before epidemic unprecedented in modern times was paralyzed the global economy and watch of the global population under warranty. and while covent, they no longer commands the same fear and fewer if you still, is it still capable of causing widespread damage? well, to discuss that, i'm now in joined by usually way director of the center for public health research at managing university medical school. in china, dr. woods, great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. around me, years ago,

comment 19 was already impacting its 1st patients in china, giving the country authorities enough reason to notify the world health organization of a potential global outbreak. when you look at the events of those initial weeks and months, in hindsight, do you think the response to this threat was added when given what was known and what was not known at that time? yeah, absolutely. you can say almost 3 years ago, it was a ticket because we didn't know whether the virus was alcohol, it was transmitted. well, it kind of a consequence because you've got to be in the videos. so i think at that time for to be a couple months we were living in the black. so of course, you know, a particular super expensive only thing is that trying to complete brown could be

the borrows transmission and that's the best we could do. i think if you look back 3 years ago, it was the correct decision to that if something similar were to appear again, would you recommend the same course of action, or would you have something mortified? well being you know, 1st days on likely the same scenario we're happy to begin with of ours because now we know a lot of them are on the scars by the muted trans needs and what kinds of medical problems will cost us. so the situation is completely different than by the said, i think, you know, we have much more experience in getting was there that we know how to control the contain the, to limit the number of people getting infected or the mobilize met go. so this is in the resources to deal with it. and the other thing is that we know we have

things that change the landscape go differently. so i think that you know, that happens again, we're probably much better prepared to deal with it. now we here is to go in those 1st chaotic weeks and months, the countries essentially emulated one another. everybody going for the district as possible, log down even when they didn't have enough resources to sustain it. and i think over time, national strategies have become more self sustaining and so driven, when you analyze national responses at this point of time, can you think allowed any countries that you particularly like the way that they responded and, you know, some nation that perhaps could be justifiably, criticized for the action the day to go and didn't take why, you know, it's a barrier to georgia other countries because the public intervention and the

response to the movie and probably healthy using so much influence determine the by be the count his own that go capacity, there was no uniform, the way of getting was in the all the breaker, like the pension. but when they look, look back to the risk. so there's different counties to guess the sparrows. i think the, you know, in the complete the blank purely, the people did not know anything about the virus. the best way is restrict movement because when those and the movement is one of the key you see, which helps us to trust me the wrong way in the video to another individual. so that's, you know, usually will mobilize resources will put on destruction, some sort of room and the mobility. i mean, she's there that it was quite effective in dealing with the nature of the people

will know anything about the house. so i think this is very critical, you're just doing it as usual, and you just go around, we are not going to give us a patient of freedoms and that people get contracts. so we don't have that. so we don't have them that people right now is definitely the way they approach that china to we have to admit, it's now one of the richest countries per capita. and they have the resources to afford this kind of policy. would you recommend the same approach to some of the poorest countries where people have to stay under the log down without, you know, having any means to, to survive a lot just to, you know, healing or medical treatment. but the bear survival. i'm talking about food, energy, etc. yeah. you're, is there a good question? i don't think that the chinese model is,

can be applied to 2 other kinds of countries, which are, you normally develop to have limited resources because of time this model number of parts in the fat froze. it has to be a very strong sense for us because it couldn't remove that could move the lines, resources, and basically one when the epidemic append happened or the on the break happening in a particular region, very serious overwhelm it's a health care system. then the government could move on the results from a different the 2 restrictions to 2 people support. so this requires a tremendous amount of federal government authority called the nation and the cooperation. so the 1st thing in this point of view, i mean this model is hardly easily applied to other countries. it's

called the the is that you are in the past week normally developing, trying to give out the very, very close network of which we involve the office. but you know, the commercial committees such as a full deliberate and the your, your license support, the system or whatever, you know, you could simply purchase your living stock from the internet and digital to your doorstep. so those things don't be sufficient to support the infrastructure, not just this to the wrong approach. without the rules, you can do it. now, throughout this condemning, we often heard from various experts that is better to be safe than sorry, although this mantra didn't fully account for, you know, all the damage and the death toll that indirectly occurred. that for example,

you know, people suffering from chronic diseases whose treatment was put on hold because all the attention was centered on the car on the patients. i wonder if this been damaged changed a way the medical community approaches the treatment of chronic versus infectious diseases. are these 2 fields to feel separated as they used to be? well, i think in the we change the way additions to health care workers to deal with the big as the and the to the infection. i will be 19, i mean the other way else we can see. so thank you. have the on the days is as you just imagine, because those in the house care facilities have to cry because they are the, are the world in control of our c and dealing with the severely and in fact to be individuals. so you can see that because part of the time that when that happens

when the patient from the into a hospital event, some of the have to do with the patients. and then you have to both you also, you know, the chat and the medical examination. people you are allowed to go, you so that in effect of the patient, the patient with clinical because it's so there is a very complex i think this is something that's really when they get past the 3 years that we have to develop, the more more you have to and the patients that we're dealing with this kind of situation that if i'm not mistaken, as cold in medical community, that's called the problem of tree. that the doctor is always have to. well, they, they would aspire to treat everybody, but they have to make very hard choices about has the better chances of, of survival. and, you know, that raises a lot of very, very,

very hard ethical questions about the elderly, about the children about the economy, et cetera. have 3 here is on how we started going through that with some sort of honest analysis or is it still something that humanity has to come to terms with you see interesting question. the idea is a very much, you know, preface. the western countries, particularly european countries basically you can see the similar, although it was a practice needing embrace and you know, and then but the trying we was not or is not widely accepted in the medical community. what do you see is, and i me to some of the hospital, you know, pick up the chinese and i mean, some of those was just overwhelmed by could you 19 patients?

so that's one reason why that i'm going to treat tremendous results of the build out of those mixed up the hospital. and so the patients while not severely, but you have to do the transports with those mitchell hospitals to, to get medical treatment. so really with the traditional hospital medical care facilities for patients with what you have well, you know, i'll be emergency conditions or chronic diseases. so i think this is a good model of ways because the culture it is you will not have me everywhere and everything is sometimes happens when you have some emergency midship hospital get to pick them. you know that that would be a tremendous help. interesting, you know, here in russia, the traditional chinese medicine is associated with what we call holistic approach . and i think this is one, then it's a station of such holistic approach that you should try to treat every member of your society regardless of the age of survival ability chances. now another thing i

wanted to ask is that it's clear that the patients prognosis with calling dependent a great deal on his or her health status and his or her health condition. again, a chronic disease is at the preceding lifestyle. what have you, do you think that any last sense for all of us to be learned about how to sort of leave our lives early and healthily in order not to be so susceptible to academics and done next like this one? well then that's a good question because if you look at the, you know, from the trying to use a prospective j a and it happens, you know, there's different chinese it gets when the government calls for. so the strain ok a and then to not go to avoid the blue to probably

go places. it's a, you know, avoidable. well, you are miss mass and then you know, have some good in the house. so kill, you know, i could have it. so basically you can see that from the individual level, many people actually do it pretty well. you see there are people, i have a so called a self reliance and they take the else into their own hands. i think a society when a plan to happen when there is a shortage of medicine, the shop is a wheel. typical shoe, then your cell is your 1st responsibility for your own house. so this is something there critic or the 2nd is that a critical for the, for the else. basically, the 1st thing is, avoid being impacted a why is that the actions vaccines are say,

and particularly when you have some basic conditions. when you are a old age, particularly people, you know, 70 to 80, and we know that chemical feed back, those are highly susceptible to the virus and they tend to develop some more compensations. so this is a very critical, that's why you know this. they called it, but people with conditions they need to take vaccines because of the adequacy. fact is basically minimal when you compare with the proceeds. so this is the 2 lessons with wines of restraint. your house, your own hands. the 2nd is that rely on the well available medical approach. so i said, well doctor, we have to take a very short break right now,

but we will be back in just a few moments. h n a . mm hm. what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical. i'm time to sit down and talk with

. mm welcome back to will support with would your way director of the center for public health research at managing university medical school in china. dr. was before the break. he said that there's a lot of things that we now understand about it. i think there are also plenty of things that we don't know. what would you say? i still some of the biggest mr. is that puzzle you, when you wake up at night about this particular virus were you know, 1st thing as early as no scientist the okay, it's a very interesting that the previous corona barrels we knew the huge bladder. they didn't even just continuously infesting the population. and the

police will individual to individual and when the, when, when the weather ones are usually diverse goes way is co star, diverse comes back. and so basically it causes low to like a symptoms of this. so this viruses, a sas, coffee, 2 is quantity different. that's why you nationally, you know, to southern twang, the many of us many stake with thought is that the virus or the go we wonder whether ones are, but it didn't. so apparently this is a highly persistent barrels. it keeps going from human, human, and mutating as well. it's an interesting and out of the diversity of illusion. if you look at the early they see in the, you know, to some of our is to the, today's, of ours. they are very different. the virus attempts appeal lation i'm, you know, becoming a highly trust me score and the intentions, but the, it's

a present. casara is a present genesis. it is a significant compromise. it's no longer cause of severe disease. the, all the buyer wants to get into your body, it goes right into your cause of the nation so that it often is called the fever. but the new virus, the only chrome since this yellow when it's a starting. so cleaning, spreading around. what do we find is that the virus, mostly just the respirator track, it doesn't go into your lungs. so that's why the symptom is relatively minor. and usually it does not cause to be a disease. it's so this is something normal for them instead of the why actually so much compromise the it's with it's cognitive ability. now i think for the most layman lay people, not the scientists, the biggest and most controversial enigma surrounding comb with 19 is its origin.

do you think we have we will ever be 100 percent sure. how it came about out so that we we, we could be 100 percent. sure. but i don't think it's likely because history is going to last. if you look back to the history, when we come back to the hours you're trying to find the origin, most of them and we only give you a cruise, you almost nebo. we never will find an absolute answer because particularly in the case load, chroma, barrels, barrels, that the, basically, all mammals with viruses such a broad hoops that then it's also almost impossible to find the origin. i know that you're personally, i don't believe that this virus could have escaped from the lab. some people who in

some statement have speculated how would you respond them to your colleagues, for instance, that the virus with such complicated genetic makeup, particularly the doubles did you sequence which makes the call it 900 pathogen. so, contagious, or it could have evolve naturally how, how would you respond to that? well, i don't think, you know, that the statement is accurately reflecting because the 19 hours basically is that the virus has been identified in bands and the natural animals. and if you look at the sequences, there are plenty of a research not only tried, but also you european countries of the well, i think one of the, the best of the research was done by a british scientist in london. and basically he traced the a possible china and the sequence, look at the virus,

this current of our solution. and his conclusion is that it's more likely the virus actually from bats and to transmit the, into a mammal and the member actually eventually you bought it and the trust me to equal human because this is, this is a more kind of robot, the scientific applicants. so, you know, that could be simpler simply because this is such a conflict. that's the ability you, human beings, it is more likely that the bar is evolving in a mammal and becoming more depth in the environment. and we do have especially about now, as we've discussed before, china was among the 1st countries to introduce log downs and among the last to relax them. and i heard you say that this is 0 tolerance of pro, which has been working fairly well for your country. and yet you believe that it's

not sustainable much longer. why is that? they would have to be, you know, in a different perspective. there's a pharmacy transmission people. yes, we saw the 21 and the year 2021 because we are very different in the early days of ours is much more is causing as much mortgage is causing ability when people are contracted about the, about the severe human deaths. so overall, if you look at the facts and population, the case percentages wasn't much trial, or how about us on the chrome since early this, gil, when only holding in china. so the severe cases, very few. and that's cases also there will be

a balance transfer the so quickly. so early the 0 clearance, the clearest policy was designed to deal with the virus which trans, neither the much slow, but it causes a much more severe the limits. so when, when policy were implemented during the 1st 2 years, it was the very best, i mean concluding about spreading from large populations. so that's why i want council system was still capable of dealing with the population. but what was that mean to yell to some pointed to when the army crawl was the major there in the show, clipping trying to trying to get it so. so the, the, all the policy, the 0 clearance policy was able to contain the virals. if you look at the, on the breaks in this year, they're basically it's all the try and although they are really small skills, but that will also clean the teeth. and then you can really look into it. now

correct me if i'm thinking here, but from what i understand, it's not the, the chinese authorities are lifting all restrictions altogether. you know, the impact of patients still have to be quarantined. they can be warranted at home rather than in safe facilities. but it is still pretty severe by some standard measures, i mean more severe than in other countries. and with roughly, i think 90 percent of the chinese population vaccinated. why do you need such st. mattress to continue once the air was the goal of that was the purpose. ok. the overall creepy. the vaccination in the chinese population is over 90 percent. it's a very if you look at the population 65 years on the or particular population a to ab about in this particular population, the national average vaccination,

which is only 67 percent. so it basically means that you have one percent of people on non fully action in the all the one normal section. so when you and then the number is a huge number you time. so you, with this population infected hong kong is whether you've got this particular population was on the destination. is that, is it? hi, risk o city disease is human best. so that's, i think, the key reason why the empties only partially open up if you want infected you see need to be caught on kinda and receive some kind of restrictions. i think this is a sense approach. she by minimizing the impact on the highly vulnerable population that was picking about other segments of the population. this announcement about moderating the chinese policy came after a series of protests in china,

which some of your western parts there's took with quite a bit of delight. do you think the decision to adjust the policy a little bit? was it taken purely on medical grounds or do you think the chinese authorities to have to be mindful of social frustration, building social frustration because chinese people and people to and they have all the emotions that come with being human being and do they have to do taken to call and also the eagerness with which some of your neighbors. so perhaps were an actors react to social protest. i think you're absolutely right. you know, i think that that makes sense to me. there's a problem with the medical and the reason why my person not my appealing is the general population of frustration, anger, also the pay of some rules from us. now, i'm so frustrated because if you go well,

you know, you have to show your, your, your. busy your, your cooking, that you code the and the screen screen things and also present your you can actually pass the results. it's just the hassle is ok. welcome. yes, 9. the particular one. you know that the viruses badly. i'm sorry you want to die, but when you see that was about pregnancy, ok, when you, when you watch tv and the people you are going to be move up freely and you see, you know, soccer teams or soccer games or people to another. well, you know, this mess. the thing is that people naturally look, we don't express the frustration while we need to, you know, still need to be restricted. so i think those definitely will play a part in making. but now my god was getting isn't there? the key, the reason is the medical reasoning and,

and the reason you can look at the opening policy is basically you can see that designed for me. mine's the disruption with people's law, but still if you need to be you need to be restrained and that there are, there are certain policies basically, you know, you, you, you have a and to minimize the impact on others as well. 6 to where we have to live there. thank you very much for being with us today. okay, thank you. goodbye and thank you for watching hope to see her again on wells apart . ah with mm

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