is still capable of causing widespread damage to discuss that i'm now joined by the way director of the center for public health research acknowledging university medical schools in china. dr. with a great to talk to thank you very much for your time. around 3 years ago, i called a team was already impacting its 1st patients in china, giving the country's authorities enough reason to notify the world health organization of a potential global outbreak. when you look at the events of those initial weeks and months in hong type, do you think the response to the threat was added with given what was known and what was not known at that time? yeah, actually you come back to almost 3 years ago. it was the, you know, complete the ticket because we didn't know what the virus was and it was transmitted. was kind of a consequence because you got to be individuals. so i think that that time you for

to be, you know, couple months we were completely in the blank. so of course, you know, that particular circumstances, the only thing is that trying to complete the transmission and that's the best we could do. i think if you look back 3 years ago, it was a correct the decision to that if something similar were to appear again, would you recommend the same course of action all? what do you have? something modified? well being you know, 1st days on likely the same scenario we're happening to begin with growing of ours, because now we know a lot of them are on this cars by the muted the chance needs and what kinds of medical problems will cost us. so the situation is completely different than by the said, i think, you know,

we have much more experience in getting was there that we know how to control the contain the to limit the number of people getting infected or the mobilized mexico services in the resources to deal with it and the other thing is that we know we have that things that change the landscape differently. so you know, that happens again. we're probably much better prepared to deal with it. now we here is to go in those 1st chaotic weeks and months. the countries essentially emulated one another. everybody going for the district as possible lockdown even when they didn't have enough resources to sustain it. and i think over time, national strategies have become more self sustaining and south driven, when you analyze national responses at this point of time, can you think allowed any countries that you particularly like the way that they responded and, you know, some nation that perhaps could be justifiably,

criticized for the action that they took or didn't take, why, you know, it's a barrier to georgia other countries because the public information, the response to the movie and probably healthy using so much influence the or determine the by the, the conscious own that go capacity there is no uniform, the way of getting was in the all the break the like the pension. but when they look back to the risk, so there's different counties to get this virus. i think the, you know, in the complete the blank theory the people did not know. and the thing about the virus, the best way is restrict movement because we know that the movement is one of the key you see which helps us to transfer from one in to another

individual. so that's usually we mobilize resources, we put on destruction, some sort of reading and the mobility. and he sees that it was quite effective in dealing with the nature of the so we know anything about the house. so i think this is very critical. you're just doing a there as usual, and you just go around. we are not going to have the thing, give us a patient of freedoms and that people get a contract. so we don't have that thing. so we don't have them that people right now is definitely the way they approach that china to we have to admit, it's now one of the reasons countries per capita. and they have the resources to afford this kind of policy. would you recommend the same approach to some of the poorest countries where people have to stay under the log down without, you know, having any means to, to survive a lot just to, you know,

healing or medical treatment. but the bear survival. i'm talking about food, energy, etc. yeah. you're, is there a good question? i don't think that the chinese model it can be applied to, to other country particular countries which are, you know, less developed and they have limited resources because of time. this model number of the facts for us has to be a very strong sense because the government could, the remote, could mobilize resources and basically one when the epidemic append happened, or the on the break happening in the particular region. very serious overwhelm it's a health care system then the coming up with the move on the results from a different to restrictions to, to people support. so this requires

a tremendous amount of federal government authority called nation and the cooperation. so the 1st thing in this point of view, i mean this model, it's hardly easily applied to other countries. it's called the 7 the is that you are in the past week. normally developing, trying to get out of the very, very close network of which we involve the office. but you know, the commercial committees, such as a food, deliberate, and the your, your license support assist whatever you know, you could simply purchase your living stock from the internet and billable to your doorstep. so those are things that you will sufficient to support the infrastructure, not just their support to the wrong approach. without those you can do it. now,

throughout this condemning, we often heard from various experts that is better to be safe than, sorry, although this mantra thing didn't fully account for, you know, all the damage and the death toll that indirectly occurred. that for example, you know, people suffering from the conic diseases whose treatment was put on hold because all the attention was centered on the occur on the patients. i wonder if this been damaged changed a way the medical community approaches the treatment of chronic versus infectious diseases. are these to feel to feel separated as they used to be? well, i think that in the we change the way a whole, you know, physicians to health care workers to deal with the and the, to the infection. i mean, the other way else we can see. so thank you. have the on the days is as you just mentioned, because those in the house care facilities how to pride because they are the,

are the world in control of our dealing with severely and in fact to be individuals . so you can see that because the in part of the time that when that happens when the patients into a hospital bed, some of the hospital has to do with the patients. and then you have to go through also the, you know, the chat and the medical examination before you are allowed to go. you so that in effect of the patients, the patient with clinical visits. so there is a very complex i think this is something that's really will then begin to pass the 3 years that we have to develop a more more effective on the patients that we're dealing with. this kind of situation that if i'm not mistaken, as cold in medical community, that's called the problem of tree. that the doctor is always have to. well, they,

they would aspire to treat everybody, but they have to make very hard choices about has the better chances of survival. and, you know, that raises a lot of very, very, very hard ethical questions about the elderly, about the children about the economy, et cetera. have 3 here is on how we started going through that with some sort of honest analysis or is it still something that humanity has to come to terms with you see the interesting question. the idea is a very much, you know, preface. the western countries, particularly european countries, basically you can see the similar model. it was a practice mean embrace and you're in depend them. but the trying we was not or is not working except to be in the medical community. what do you see in the some

of the hospital, you know, pick up the chinese and i mean some of those with just overwhelmed by it could be 900 patients. so that's one reason why that i'm going to put a tremendous resources to build off of those. make sure. so the patients while not severely, you have to do the work transports with those mitchell hospitals to to get medical treatment. so really with the traditional hospital medical care facilities for patients with what you have well, you know, i'll be emergency conditions or chronic diseases. so i think this is a good model in a way because you've got your visit with me everywhere. and everyday it sometimes happens when you have some emergency midship hospital for cynthia to take you that that would be a tremendous help. interesting, you know,

here in russia the traditional chinese medicine is associated with what we call holistic approach. and i think this is one manifestation of such holistic approach that you try to treat every member of your society regardless of the age, survive ability chances. now another thing i wanted to ask is that it's clear that the patient's prognosis with call the dependent a great deal on his or her house status and his or her health condition. again, a chronic diseases and the proceeding lifestyle. what have you, do you think there are any lessons for all of us to be learned about how to sort of leave our lives really and house really in order not to be so susceptible to academics pandemic like this one? well, that's a good question because if you look but you know, from the chinese a prospective 119 grade and it happens to been chinese

one that i'm going to call the for so for the restraining. ok. so now that you know, and they do not go to look into it, but it's, you know, avoidable. well, your face mask and then you know, have some good in the house. so could kill, you could have it. so basically you can see that from the individual level, many people are actually doing pretty well. you see there that people have a so called salary lines and they take the health to the end of the psyche when the president can happen when there is a shortage of madison. the shock is a, we'll go close you, then your sample is your 1st responsibility for your own house. so this is

something there is i think it's a very critical boy for good health. basically, the 1st thing is, when you have a good actions, vaccines are say, and particularly when you have some basic conditions, when you are a old age, particularly people, you know, 70 the, and we know that clinical feed about those people are highly susceptible to the virus and they tend to develop some more to be your compensation. so this is a critical, that's why you know this, but people with some base come out and they should. they need to take that change because of the advocacy back is basically meaning when you compare with the actual advocacy. so this is the 2 lessons with wines of restraint.

you're healthy into your own hands. the 2nd is that rely on the well available medical approach. so i said, well doctor, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments. h n a mm hm. ah

with mm. welcome back to all the part with would you wait director of the center for public health research at launching university medical school in china? doctor was before the break. he said that there is a lot of things that we now understand about that covered they didn't. but there are also plenty of things that we don't know. what would you say? i still some of the biggest mr. is that puzzle you, when you wake up at night about this particular virus?

well, you know, 1st thing is ebby. there's no science, it's ok. it's a very interesting that the previous crone of ours, we knew the huge didn't just continuously the population and the going through individual to individual and wonder when the weather warms out. usually it goes away. when his coach tomorrow comes back. and so basically it causes little true, right? because symptoms this, this viruses a soft cobra, 2 is quality different. that's why you may surely you, you know, to southern 20. many of us may mistake with thought the virus would ago. we were the ones. but it didn't, so apparently edition said highly persistent bottles, it keeps going human, human, and mutating as well. it's really interesting to see you,

even if you look at the early they see in the year to solve the virus. it's the, today's of ours, the different, the virus attempts appeal, lation become highly, trust me is for infectious, but it's a passive pass on. it is a presser. genesis is sick neighbor couldn't compromise. it's no longer cause of severe disease. the, all the bible. so once again, your body goes riding into your loan, i'm calling to be information so that it often is called the fever. but the new hours only since early this year when it's starting. so cleaning, spreading around. what do we finally is that the virus mostly just the respirator track, it doesn't go into your loan. so that's why the symptom is relatively minor. and mine usually does not cause to be a disease. it's so this is something

a lot for them. instead of the why and so much compromise needs with cognitive ability. now i think for the most layman lay people, not the scientists, the biggest and most controversial enigma surrounding comb with 19 is its origin. do you think we have we will ever be 100 percent. sure. how it came about to that we we we could be 100 percent. sure. but i don't think it's likely because history is good unless, if you look back at the history, when we come back to the bowers, you're trying to find the origin most of them. and we only give you a cruise. you almost level, we never will find an absolute answer because particularly in the case load, chroma, barrels, barrels going in depth to basically all mammals with viruses such

a broad hoops, then it's also almost impossible to find the so called the origin. i know that you're personally, i don't believe that this virus could have escaped from the lap, as some people in some statement have speculated how would you respond them to your colleagues, for instance, that the virus with such complicated genetic makeup, particularly the doubles? did you g sequence which makes the call at $900.00 pathogens so contagious? it could have evolved naturally how. how would you respond to that? i don't think, you know, stay them and to is actually reflecting. the balance basically is that there has been identified in baths and the animals. and if you

look at the sequences times of the research, not only you try it, but also your countries as well, i think why would be the best the research was done by a rotation scientists and them and the basically the batting. now the other parts of the china and the sequence, look at the bars. this current of motion. and his conclusion is that it's more likely the powers actually from bats and the tents, me into a memo and the men, what eventually you bought over the and the trends me to you. because this is, this is more kinds of robust evidence. so, you know, that could be simpler simply because this is such a conflict. that's the ability your human beings. it is more likely that the bars is evolving in

a mammal and becoming more depth in the environment. and we do have such examples about now, as we've discussed before, china was among the 1st countries to introduce low downs and among the last to relax them. and i heard you say that this 0 tolerance approach has been working fairly well for your country. and yet, can you believe that it's not sustainable much longer? why is that? they would have to be in a different perspective. there's viruses, transmission people. yes will. so the 21 and i'm talking 21 because we are very different in the early days that the virus is much more is causing as much mortgage is causing ability when people are contracted about the severe and human deaths. so overall, if you look at the facts in population,

the case percentage is was much higher than the bars on the chrome since early this year when the only holding in china. so the severe cases very few and that cases will also, there will be a balance transfer to so quickly. so the 0 clearance, the clearest policy was designed to deal with the borrowers which transmitted not just law, but it causes a much more severe. it's. so when, when policy were implemented during the 1st 2 years, it was the very best you can put in the bars from spreading from large populations . so that's why i want council system was still capable of dealing with the population. but once we step into year to some pointed to when on the chrome, what's the major there in the shortly being trying to trust me so fast?

so the, the, on the policy, the 0 clearance policy will be able to contain the buyers. if you look at the, the, on the breaks in this year, they're the, basically, it's all the trying all of the relatively small skills. but that will also clean the teacher that you can really control. now correct me if i'm mistaken here, but from what i understand, it's not that the, the chinese authorities are lifting all restrictions altogether. the impact of patients still have to be quarantined. they can be warranted at home rather than in safe facilities, but it is still pretty severe by some standards measures, i mean more severe than in other countries. and with roughly, i think 90 percent of the chinese population vaccinated. why do you need such st measures to continue once the or what the goal of that was the purpose. okay.

the overall petri, the vaccination in the chinese population is over 90 percent. it's a very if you look at the population 65 years on the particular the population a to ab, about in this particular population, the national average vaccination is only 67 percent. so basically means that you will have one that's the same, that people are not fully action is on the one normal action. so when you and then the number is a huge number, you try me. so you with this is the effected hong kong is whether you know, this particular population was on the destination, is that, is it hi and risk o city a disease is even better. so that's the key reason why the empties only partially open up if you want you infected, you still need to be kinder and receive kind of restrictions.

i think this is a stance approach. she by minimizing the impact on the highly vulnerable population that was picking about other segments of the population. this announcement about moderating the chinese policy came after a series of protests in china, which some of your western parts there's took with quite a bit of delight. do you think the decision to adjust the policy a little bit? was it taken purely on medical grounds or do you think the chinese authorities to have to be mindful of social frustration, building social frustration because chinese people and people to and they have all the emotions that come with being human being and do they have to take into account also the eagerness with which some of your neighbors or perhaps were an actors react to as social protest. i think you're absolutely right. you

know, i think that the major factor, you mean there's a problem with the medical and the reason, but my person not my appealing is the general population of frustration, anger, also the pay of somebody in the rooms. now, i'm so frustrated because if you go anywhere, you know, you have to show your, your, your, your, your cooking code and the screen screen things and also presenting your test results. it's just a hassle. it's ok. well, yes, 9 the particular one, you know that the viruses badly, i'm sorry you, i want to die. but when you see that was about the same. ok when you, when you watch tv and people young, you seem to be move up freely and you see, you know, teens or soccer games or people to another. well, you know,

this mass the same as other people. naturally we, we don't express the frustration while we need to, you know, still need to be restricted. so i think those definitely will play a part in making, but my god getting isn't there the key, the reason is the medical raising and the and the music. you can look at the, how the opening policy is basically you see that designed to minimize the disruption of peoples the law. but still, if you know, you, you need to be, you need to be restrained and that there are, there are certain policies basically, you know, you, you, you have a to minimize the impact on others as well to where we have to live there. thank you very much for being with us today. okay, thank you. goodbye and thank you for watching hope to hear again on the walls apart

. ah with mm ah, with anybody to look at those just trouble with ship when you much all the way with her mother is a global scope with the oil like it is,

but it will go with the, with my service, with a so what he's got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic,

development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk for we have no other choice but to protect our citizens. it wasn't nice to stage a coup and ukraine. they started it rather than put them blame the brain conference all night long running western policy and dividing russia, idea that most appointments are still refusing to p. raising says it's relations with moscow are unchangeable off the russia devotees, national security tv posted by chinese president. a u. s. in packages agencies push the platform to spence imposed containing any non main.