ah, co welcome to was a party 3 years ago at this time of the year. and that was living its last care 3 days before epidemic unprecedented in modern times, would paralyze the global economy and watching the global population under warranty . and while culminating no longer commands, the same fear and fury here still, is it still capable of causing widespread damage? well to discuss that, i'm now joined by usually way director of the center for public health research at managing university medical school in china. dr. woods, great to talk to you. thank you very much for time. around 3 years ago, comment 19 was already impacting its 1st patients in china, giving the country's authorities enough reason to notify the world health organization of a potential global outbreak. when you look at the events of those initial weeks

and months, in hindsight, do you think the response to this threat was adequate, given what was known and what was not known at that time? yeah, absolutely. because 2, almost 3 years ago it was so you know, complete the ticket because we didn't know whether the virus was and how it was transmitted. well, the kind of a consequence because you've got to be individuals. so i think at that time you, for to be in the national couple months we were clearly in the brand. so of course, you know, a particular circumstances. the only thing is they're trying to compete. brock, b, r, transmission. and that's the best. who could do us if you look back 3 years ago, it was the correct decision to do so that if something similar where to appear again, good, would you recommend the same course of action,

or would you have something modified? well being you know, 1st days on likely the same scenario we're happening again with chrome of ours because now we know a lot of them are the scars by the muted trans needs and what kinds of medical problems will cost. so the situation is completely different than by the said, i think, you know, we have much more experience in getting was there that we know how to control the contain the to limit the number of people getting infected or the mobilize mexico services in the resources to deal with it and the other thing is that we know we have things that change the landscape differently. so i think that you know, that happens again, we're probably much better prepared to deal with it. now we here is to go in those 1st chaotic weeks and months,

the countries essentially emulated one another. everybody going for this trick, this possible logged down even when they didn't have enough resources to sustain it . and i think over time, national strategies have become more self sustaining and south driven, when you analyze national responses at this point of time, can you think, allowed any countries you particularly like the way that they responded and, you know, some nation that perhaps could be justifiably criticized for the action that they took or didn't take, why, you know, to georgia other countries because the public information and the response to the movie and probably healthy using much influence the or determine the by be the count his own that go capacity. there is no uniform, the way of getting was in the all the break the like the pension.

but when they look back to the risk. so there's different countries to get this balance. i think the, you know, in the complete the blank theory, the people did not know anything about the virus. the best way is restrict wilson movement because we know that the movement is one of the key you see which helps us to transfer me the wrong way. in the video to another individual. so that's usually we mobilize resources, we put on destruction, some sort of room and the mobility and the see that it was quite effective in dealing with the, the nature of the so we know anything about the house. so i think this is very critical, you're just doing a there as usual, and you just go around though we are not going to the end the thing, give us a patient of freedoms and that people get contracts so we don't have that thing. so we don't have them that people right now is definitely the way they approach

that china to we have to admit, it's now one of the richest countries per capita. and they have the resources to afford this kind of policy. would you recommend the same approach to some of the poorest countries where people have to stay under the log down without, you know, having any means to, to survive a lot just to, you know, healing or medical treatment. but the bear survival. i'm talking about food, energy, etc. yeah. your, is there a good question? i don't think that the chinese motor is, can be applied to 2 other countries, but countries which are, you know, me cli develop to have limited resources because of time, the small number of the facts for us. it has to be

a very strong sense for us because it could remove, could mobilize resources and basically $11.00 of them, it happened the or the, or the all the greek happening in the particular region. very serious overwhelm it's a health care system. then the government could move around the results from a different jurisdictions to, to keep the support. so this requires a tremendous amount of federal government authority called the nation and the cooperation. so the 1st thing in this point of view, i mean this mazda is hardly easily applied to other countries. it's called the, the is that you are in the past that we can only develop, trying to give out the very, very close network of which we involve the committees

such as a deliberate and the your life to support the system or whatever. you know, you could simply purchase your living stock from the internet and billable to your doorstep. so those are things that you will sufficient to support the infrastructure, not just their support to the wrong approach without the most you can do it. now throughout this condemning, we also heard from various experts that is better to be safe than, sorry, although this mantra didn't fully account for, you know, all the damage and the death toll that indirectly occurred. that for example, you know, people suffering from chronic diseases whose treatment was put on hold because all the attention was centered on the occur on the patients. i wonder if this been damaged changed a way the medical community approaches the treatment of chronic versus infectious

diseases. are these 2 fields to feel separated as they used to be? well, i think in the we tend to the way you know, physicians to health care workers to deal with the big is the and the to the infection. i will be 19, i mean, the other way else we you can see so thank you. have the on the days is as you just mentioned, that because those in the house care facilities have to pry because they are the, are the world in control of our dealing with the effects of the individuals. so you can see that because the in part of the time that when that happens when the patient from the into a hospital event, someone has to do with the patients. and you have to go through the, you know, the chat and the medical examination before you go you so that in

effect to the patients, the patient with clinical visits. so there is a very complex i think this is something that's really will then begin to pass the 3 year several we have to develop the more more you have to and the patient that we are dealing with. this kind of situation that if i'm not mistaken, as cold in medical community, that's called the problem of tree. that the doctor is always have to. well, they, they would aspire to treat everybody, but they have to make very hard choices about has the better chances of, of survival. and, you know, that raises a lot of very, very, very hard ethical questions about the elderly, about the children about the economy, et cetera. have 3 here is on how we started going through that with some sort of honest analysis or is it still something that humanity has

to come to terms with you see, that's an interesting question. the idea is a very much, you know, preface in western countries, particularly european countries. basically you can see the similar although it was a practice in britain and then but the trying we was not or is not widely accepted in the medical community. what do you see is, and i me to some of the hospital, you know, pick up the chinese and i mean, some of those was just overwhelmed by clicking on patients. so that's why the reason why that i'm going to entry the tremendous results of the build up of those. make sure the hospital so the patients while not severely, but you've got to do the work transports with those mitchell hospitals to, to get to medical treatment. so really with the traditional hospital medical care

facilities for patients with what you have well, you know, i'll be emergency conditions or chronic diseases. so i think this is a good model in a way that because the issue with not happening everywhere and everyday it sometimes happens when you have some emergency midship hospital get to take and that, that would be a tremendous help. interesting, you know, here in russia the traditional chinese medicine is associated with what we call holistic approach. and i think this is one manifestation of such holistic approach that you should try to treat every member of your society regardless of the. ringback age of survival ability chances. now another thing i wanted to ask is that it's clear that the patients prognosis with calling dependent a great deal on his or her health status and his or her health condition. again,

a chronic diseases and the preceding lifestyle. what have you, do you think that any last sense for all of us to be learned about how to sort of leave our lives early and healthily in order not to be so susceptible to academics? something done next like this one? well then that's a good question because if you look at the, you know, from the chinese a perspective, ok, well a great and it happens. you know, there's different chinese if you want to come to call for. so restrain ok a and then do not go to avoid the blue to probably the places it's the, you know, avoidable? well, you are miss mass and then you know, have some good in the house. so could kill, you know, i could have it. so basically you can see that from the individual level,

many people actually do it pretty well. you see there are people i have a so called a self reliance and that they take the else into their own hands. a society when a plan them to happen. when there is a shortage of medicine, i'm sure you will go to them yourself. what is your 1st responsibility for your own house? so this is something very critical. the 2nd is that a lot for the else. basically the 1st thing is, avoid being a back a day and particularly when you have some basic conditions when you are a 70 and we know that chemical feed about those people are honest but to the virus and they

tend to develop some more complications. and so this is critical, that's why this people come out and they, they need to take that change because of the advocacy back is basically meaning when you compare with the advocacy. so this is the 2 lessons with wines of restraint. your house, your own hands, the separately rely on the well the available medical approach are protected. so i said, well doctor, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments. h n a hey,

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy, fun, taishan, let it be in arms. race is very dramatic. development only, and get into this. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time to sit down and talk with ah welcome back to will support with would you wait director of the center for public

health research at lunging university medical school in china. dr. was before the break. you said that there's a lot of things that we now understand about it. they didn't, but they're also plenty of things that we don't know. what would you say? i still some of the biggest mr. is that puzzle you, when you wake up at night about this particular virus? well, you know, 1st thing is ebby as scientists. ok. it's a very interesting that the previous crone of ours, we knew the huge didn't just continuously testing the population and going through individual to individual. and when the, when the, when the weather warms out, so usually it goes away when it's cold, diverse comes back. and so basically it causes true, right, because symptoms this,

this viruses a soft cobra, 2 is called a different that's why you initially, you know, to southern 20 manie oddison. my mistake was thought to the virus who would go whether but it didn't. so apparently edition said highly persist, navaros, it keeps going human and mutating as well. it's interesting, diversely, you really should, if you look at the early days in the year to some of our, today's, of ours, the different, the virus attempts, appeal population becoming highly. trust me as for infectious, but it's a passive pass on. this is a press agenda, is sick neighbor could compromise. it's no longer cause of severe disease the all the vinyl. so once again, your body, it goes right into your loan because of the nation. so that it often is called the

fever, but the new virus on chrome since early this year when it's a starting. so cleaning, spreading around. what do we finally is that the virus mostly just got the respirator track. it doesn't go into your loan. so that's why the symptom is relatively minor and usually it does not cause to be because it's so this is something we're still not fully understand about the y m. so much compromise dates with cognitive ability. now i think for the most layman, lay people, not the scientists, the biggest and most controversial enigma surrounding comb with 19 is its origin. do you think we have we will ever be 100 percent. sure. how it came about that we we, we could be 100 percent. sure. but i don't think it's likely because history is

going to ask if you look back to the history, when we come back to the bowers, you're trying to find the origin. most of them, and we only give you a roots, you almost level, we never will find an absolute answer because particularly in the case load chrome about this going to have to basically all mammals with viruses such a broad hoops, then it's also almost impossible to find the so called the origin, i know that you personally don't believe that this virus could have escaped from the lap, as some people in some statement have speculated how would you respond them to your colleagues, for instance, that the virus with such complicated genetic makeup, particularly in the doubles did you sequence, which makes the call it 900 pathogen. so contagious it could

have evolved naturally how, how would you respond to that? well, i don't think, you know, the statement is accurately reflected because the 19 hours basically is out of the virus that has been identified in bands and the animals. and if you look at the sequences, there are plenty of a research not only tried, but also you european countries of the well, i think one of the, the best, the research was done by a british scientist in london. and the, basically is that the a parcel of china and the sequence look at the virus. this current of our solution. and his conclusion is that it's more likely the virus actually, from bats and the transmitter into a mammal and the member actually eventually you bought it and trust me to you human

. because this is, this is a more kind of a robust the scientific evidence. so, you know, to the simplest, there it is simply because this virus is such a conflict. cognitive ability infecting human beings. it actually, it's a more likely is that the virus is evolving in the mammal and becoming more depth of in the environment. and we do have such examples are now as we discussed before, china was among the 1st countries to introduce low downs and among the last to relax them. and i heard you saying that this is 0 tolerance approach, has been working fairly well for your country. and yet you believe that it's not sustainable much longer. why is that? you would have to mean could it be in, in a different perspective on this as far as the transmission before year

2021 and after year 2021 because of the viruses are very different in the early days, viruses are much more this is causing as much more this is causing the ability when people are contract, the virus, the severe diseases and the human deaths. so overall, if you look at the effects of the population, the severe pace percentages was much higher than or so the only cro since early this year when the only chronicle who the time to be severe cases or very few and that that's the case. this will also be able to go whether be a balance transfer to so quickly. so the 0 clearance, the clearance policy was a design deal with the virus which trust me that much of a lot, but the causes a much more severe disease. so when, when policy will implement during the 1st 2 years,

it was very effective. and you can put in a parcel from starving from large populations. so that's why we're council system was still capable of dealing with the population. but what was that mean to yell to some pointed to when on the cross? what's the major there in the shortly being trying to trust me so fast? so the, the, on the policy, the 0 clearance policy will be able to contain the virus. if you look at the, on the breaks in this year, there are basically it's all the trying to, although of the relatively small skills. but that will clean the teeth and then you can really control. now correct me if i'm mistaken here, but from what i understand, it's not the, the chinese authorities are lifting all restrictions altogether. the impact of patients still have to be quarantined. they can be warranted at home rather than in

safe facilities, but it is still pretty severe by some standard measures. i mean more severe than in other countries. and with roughly, i think 90 percent of the chinese population vaccinated. why do you need such st matters to continue once the once the goal of that was the purpose. okay. the overall creepy, the vaccination in the chinese population is over 90 percent. it's a very if you look at the population 65 years on the particular the population a to ab, about in this particular population, the national average vaccination, which is only 67 percent. so basically means that you will have one that's the same, that people will know the full adaption is on the one normal action. so when you and then the number is a huge number,

you try me. so this is being infected. hong kong is whether, you know, this particular population was on the destination, is that, is it? hi, risk o city a disease is even better. so that's, i think, the key reason why the probably the emptiness only partially open if you want infected, you still need to be able to kind of restrictions. i think this is a standard approach. she by minimizing the impact on the highly vulnerable population that was picking about other segments of the population. this announcement about moderating the chinese policy came after a series of protests in china, which some of your western parts there's took with quite a bit of delight. do you think the decision to adjust the policy a little bit? was it taken purely on medical grounds or do you think the chinese authorities to

have to be mindful of social frustration, building social frustration because chinese people and people to and they have all the emotions that come with being human being and do they have to take into account also the eagerness with which some of your neighbors or perhaps were an actors react to as social protest. i think you're absolutely right. you know, i think that it makes sense to me is opening up a problem with the medical and the reason. but my personal, my feeling is that the general population of frustration, anger, also the pay of somebody in the rooms from us. now, i'm so frustrated because you go, well, you know, you have to show your, your. busy your, your, your cooking that you could, the, and the screen, the screen things and also present the already been as you pass the results. it's

just, the hassle is okay. yes. 9 the particular one, you know that the viruses badly. i'm sorry you, i don't want to die. but yeah, when you see that was about the same. ok when you, when you watch tv and people young, you seem to be move up freely and you see, you know, soccer teens and soccer games and people to another. well, you know, this mess. the thing is that people, naturally we, we don't express the frustration while we need to, you know, still need to be restricted. so i think those definitely will play a decision making. but my gut feeling isn't there, the she, the reason is the medical raising and, and, and the reason you can look at the car on the open policy is basically you see that designed to minimize the disruption with people who have a lot, but the steel, if you know, you, you need to be, you need to be restrained and that there are,

there are certain policies basically, you know, you, you, you have a and to minimize the impact on others as well. 6 to where we have to live there. thank you very much for being with us today. okay, thank you. goodbye. and thank you for watching hope to see her again on well the part ah with mm ah ah ah

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