loss for alexandra doogan. thank you very much for joining us and giving us time for this interview and stood again. and the 1st question i want to ask has to do with the soviet union. specifically, do you think that it would have been possible to preserve it? and if it was preserved, how do you think the soviet union would look as a multinational country in 2022? first of all, when it's so understand that geopolitical speaking, soviet union was a continuation over the russian empire, ideologically, it was quite different. it was based on the totally opposite of values and ideas, but as geopolitical entity, as heartland as erosion, and the land mass and the region over the classic girths. oh, for geo politics are like makin there or brzezinski. soviet union was direct continuation and to realization of the

a lend power opposite to war c power. so in that sense that was kind of a realization over their main job politico contradiction. that is the core all over hu, human history, according to my kinder. so if we consider that full all the soviet union and this geopolitical aspect, the meaning called that was a kind of defeat, or the land power and frond o that see power, that was a great catastrophe. off of these, a hot land and the big achievements, all of the sea power or global western liberal solution. in that sense, we could imagine a condemnation old for all soviet union. during cluster 3 decades,

a like some euros eunice, the thinkers presumes eat a can or would be or could be there and all the ideology of communism. it was almost inevitable in avoidable. we need to get a read off these sir. exhaust that's soviet or a dogmatism, but that could not mean directly the fall of the soviet union on mr. disappearance of unity of this job, political entity. and if for soviet union would survive on law, this a catastrophic eat a will be a kind of room. you raise your newnan a kind of urine empire, or return to that when the classical russian empire with surgical central isn't ant

multiplicity, all the athens groups leaving inside. so i think that was quite possible. and precisely, now, we are dealing with the will of the moscow to reconquer of this edge of political space. there is the moment of the return to the geopolitics because a land power once more. once now, to re assure re affirm it's independent sovereignty in front, all the collective west that ease to day on there. oh, almost full control over there at all. and this is the palace socratic a lead off. see power. now we are reconstructing this journey job political space without over live without, ah saw it ideology, but trying to restore the greatness over the empire recreate.

oh, great eurasian union. oh, great, here and you fall. the soviet union, of course, is something that's studied very heavily and other socialist countries that are still existing today, especially china. they study the fall of the soviet union, a lot to understand what they could do differently, as specifically as a communist country. so they've reformed into a more market model while still retaining this sort of socialist ideology. do you think that could have been possible if the soviet union were to be preserved? i think it would be possible. and china precisely has got the main lesson. oh, the fall of the soviet union that you should, and you are obliged to bruiser and safe to save the country, the unity, the strategical control over, eat, or including all, all ethnic groups because chinese mulder, ethnical society as well as soviet union, a worse and roger eas, without and transforming,

transform the to country without losing their power over their central government. so you could make route for, you could change. some are some aspects of economy, but you never should loose the sovereignty and control over geopolitical space in order to make correct. got transform ation over the ideology. you should discard tension for addition. so now china is a communist political power, almost authoritarian with confucianism in the centre success, full control. oh, all we're growing liberal market, the chinese didn't. i didn't a div tore that society oh barrel democracy ways, a liberal market. they have preserve to verify

o r government over the country with a unique and who will unite that power political power and they have submitted a liberal economy to it. and i think that this example how in the positive situation in the all os ration soviet union could be centralized power with fool joe, a bully, decal control over all parts and at the cur zones. wes's mixed economy, wiz combination o, the socialism ways traditionalism was great. there and there was russian tradition, well, use l debt court fox function that could work as it works in china. we have lost the chance to transform our society ideologically. but to prevent this collapse and to,

to save the unity that is much more than soviet union because that is unity of the heartland of eurasia, or unit of empire, if it, if you want. so that it, that is possible. and china shows that it is possible collapse of the soviet union was suicide and not to adjust the demand for independence over a former republics that was suicide made in the center. so we are fully responsible are, we are russians. we are fully responsible for that. it is not only just nationalists, for all of from the periphery, that was the crime i made by the government of moscow, by the center. what you used the term near totalitarianism, connected to confucianism, to this, to describe what modern china has basically reformed into. and it's interesting to me as an, as an american totalitarianism, the term, as i understand it,

is basically has long been just a word that people in the west have used to attack russia or china. and when i'm, when i moved here, i realized that, you know, things are a lot more ah nuanced in countries that are just label totalitarianism, like the state just controls everything. i just wanted to understand like, what exactly did you mean by that in terms of china and also on in the soviet union? would you say that that was a totalitarian society as well? in the west we have, we are dealing with bure totalitarian liberalism. so it, it is only hi paul chrissy to, to pretend that anybody else except liberals, authoritarian regimes and the lutheran, a liberals on most of the letter in chinese for society is not only beryl or liberal to their there it is just the holistic record to use more

appropriate war, holistic, holistic system. it, this is the, when the common law is foot over the individual who could blame that s the letter in, but we can blame us of the return as well of these little bit. walker, c debt brit dance to have the absolute truth and to impulse this soul call tools on anybody else in the world without, without regarding the, the particularity of different civilizations. so there is inherited racism and the western liberalism, liberalism, because it identify that western historical political cultural experience with universal one. so if you say that the west, her, it, these the same as humanity and humanity is on their west undeveloped as not yet oh s t r enough. it is purely racist approach. it could be openly racist as

in a form of national socialism based on the biology, but it is as will cultural racism that we are dealing with in modern days, liberal globalism. if chinese think this system or this regime fits them well, they like that it so that up to them to decide not to for the activists of open society or proponents of liberalism. so let the people decide for themselves and death is the main principal all for real, real democracy if you want on the international level, we've been talking a lot about communism. and i wanted to ask if you see a sort of unifying ideology in modern russian society like the one that was in the

soviet union. because obviously for most i would say of the soviet period, people were united by this one idea communism. they wanted to build communism and that was something they had to strive towards. do you think that the modern russian people have something like that? and if not, what could fill that gap? could not fill that gap, we could not return to this solving time, but in spite of some sympathy, growing sympathy to the time. but to return is impossible because we where we could not accept this dogma is max is out of over the questions. so we need to get further and to, to, to mixer, demands of social justice. so that future wis traditional traditional well use for bi recently statement of our president. and that has made

a degree in order to or talk to the fans and of a firm on the political level, traditional values in russian society. so i think that's, that should be outside of political western modernity. we need to explore more rational tradition, tradition of slumber files of the stay of ski or co creation orthodoxy. and we need to rediscover non western or pre modern if you want post more. there are types of political thought. so we need to, to join prima donna to respond modernity. and we need to far to relative ice to make relative of the western experience. so the west is on the part of the humanity and in spite of it, but that it pretending to be the call of the humanity. it is not so. so we need to store in the scour our own political thought or when the russia wasn't under

dominating or influence. oh, the west. so that is a really the challenge for us to read the scour or recreate this ideology that should be organic. that should have, has, have a should have its historical dimension, but at the same time, that same time, it should be new, fresh, it should be on creative and some way and all that in direct reputation. all the western liberal had germany against open society against india though, isn't it gaze a liberal democracy that west tries to impose on everybody, but as will to throw out communism as dogmatism and pressures as well? because all through political theories, main political theories, all 3 of them originated in the modern with and that sense,

i agree was come out on western moderne 3rd, that it is to, to deter it. and we need to get out of this western type of there isn't to arrive. that was it. if rash and organic holism allows from all to books better. you ration isn't that good? include the other traditional society in the and the main and the main symphony. all over the over the, at the groups or the peoples and religion so that, that will be completely new form of i deal logy that much gloves or maybe to you ration isn't or all, some, some mixture between traditional or traditionalism and social justice. and how would you say economics plays into this because at least with the soviet experience, you know, command economics made it significant contributions to the development of russia

while at the same time, we saw of course, designation towards the end. but in terms of, you know, market economics, we saw what kind of situation russia was in back in 2014, when it was much more connected to the western financial system in the west, decided to put sanctions on it. as opposed to now, when these unprecedented western sanctions, once russia was far less dependent on the dollar, they had far less of an effect on russia. so where, where do you see economics playing into this being? do you see a russian future more oriented towards markets or towards command economics? now, and last decree of our president, the traditional value, the main traditional value is accept that the predominance of the spirit over the matter. and that is quite russian. so that is the main main key. so

economy, when you are obsessed with economy, you is obliged to follow more and more of this confrontation, this competition with the other more you are engaged and, and 5 to all logic of my mother. you will become the slave of mater and material material. the transformation you are not anymore muster over the economy. you are, you become slave, we're gonna miss. so as we do more french social sociology is said in the 20th century we had 3 political regime, communism, liberalism, and fascism. common is liberalism, obsessed by them. and they have shown more or less impressive results. liberalism, better of communism, slightly worse, but freshly, for example, was absolutely unconcerned by, by economy. there was no specially precious store special initial and socialist

system of economy. and they have shown during hitler era, the results compatible may be much better than those. those are genes obsessed with economy. so that doesn't mean that fashion was good. absolutely. lou do. mom was french democratic sociologist, she, she just wanted to emphasize that more you engage economy economy as theory as the main criteria on all of them. and the less you are prepared to deal with real challenges. so i think that in russian ideology, international life, we need to get read over this obsession of economies. so, and that is the way to, to make economy really said, so when it's due to grad, logical and natural approach. all souls,

economic problem without any dogma is without this competition with it when socialism and capitalism. so when it to get rid of the dogmatism in economy and we need to put economy under that spiritual development. so we need to, to say, 1st, a full culture rather than civilization in spangler and terms. so our, our problem is not to be engaged in this, or that an economy co, a dogma, when it's too tall to grin function in society. first of all, just basically based on justice on tradition, on the heaviness of the people and, and the, all these elements are more moral, are more spiritual values then economy. and that doesn't mean we shouldn't, we should ignore economy law we,

we should ignore economic dogmatism. if market economy works in some zone of society, let it be eve, state, gulf states involvement is a functional is, is positive, let it be as well. if there is a common po, communitarian approach in some or in some are group of population. let b go communes, some formal communitarian societies, so, or we should all get rid of any kind or for all work or thought lexi in economy. what was the best economical performance in a history of last century? we see that price is the mixture. so for example, american american and strategy of mercantilism and protect

shenise with free free markets in europe, that is, social social politics almost socialism with some freedom of, of enterprises. so the balance between state and private capital is always changing. it is always relation. it is not the dogma, so we need to find the relations relation. that's feats that would fit better to rush and experience the rational society and good that would help will help us better to solve the concrete ongoing problem. the cold war was marked by what many historians agree was ex, sort of bipolar world order between the west, the capital west and the socialist east. to what extent do you think that legacy of a bipolar world order is still relevant today? because a lot of people say that we're in a new cold war right now. what do you have to say about like multi multi polarity

in the world? would you say that that they have some sort of parallels at the same time because the world does seem to be developing somehow into a more eurasian camp and the western camp that has existed for a while now. so on one side, very seal conventional bipolar. it's a bit lower to because there is one full, untouched among the 2 poles that existed before the end of the soviet union. one has disappeared and the other is here is present. so that's just the kind of a residue of a bipolar system. and the west behalf itself as if it is still in this cold bipolar world war. considered the russia as the hare or the soviet union. with whom do you need to, to fight?

that is a kind of inertia that is continuation of the bipolar o world region. multiple or 2 is emerging now emerging now. but is something different? it is not one ideology against the other. one poll against the other, their ease totally different, a vision or a coexistence that doesn't mean necessarily war or conflict, but that doesn't mean necessary. and either a nicer piece. so it could, it depends. so multiple oddity it, this precisely the end of the by, by polarity. and with a, i, me, an idea that the west doesn't want to accept that in multiple oddity, that west will not be one of the 2, but one of fuel pulse. and we will reduce the western claim over hedge immunity of universality. o, o for over globalism to some concrete borders. so that is a re,

a re proven cell is ition of the west. that east precisely multiple out it, russia defense now. and it's war against a unit unipolar system, not only our alum ah status position as independent pulled, but as well. the other polls china, india, islamic world, latin america, africa. so that is the 1st multiple or war that is going on now and euchre. and because that west wanted at any price to preserve and safe, it's had germany unipolar system that is contamination old by polarity. and that is why such are, are also forbear such hatred for russia, it is continuation of bipolar understanding of all over the to checked

all of the international relations main problem for the west to accept that west could be a province over the humanity, not the sun turnover capitol. so it is just a but it is not the whole of humanity and about people, it is about that. so, fighting for multiple narrative or astra fights for a ride to different civilizations, to affirm themselves with its inherent system ovalia's that could go inside or not go inside was western where we saw nothing too new or existing multiple oddity. there is a kind of relate of bodily universalism, it's chinese universalism, islamic universalism, rational. you raise your universe, cell is an african american. so there is not, not only one universalism, western modern, but there could exist and co exist, civilizations defending their right to create their own political

cultural artist system. so that is the, the meaning of the multiplicity, paralysis of the civilization, and multiple are teeth fights against this claim. not against the west such but against the claim over the west to be the model. to be the unique example of the progress of the history of this thing, the time of man, of, of technology. so any socialization has its own right to, to on the stance to interpret what man is. what time is, what god, this was death is what good and evil are. so that is up to civilization and there is no one unique universal model to

impose on all the civilizations. that is what is this fight? and ukraine is ah, a shag now shoulder went in and i'm not going to stay last name scan, you know, when i'm in a finance national z and no rush is shining. your in monday mine, when you sit down with

ah, with the discovery of the new world, at the end of the 15th century, there appeared atlantic slave trade. the slave traders from european countries started building forth on the western coast of the african continent to transport the african inhabitants to america, to be forced into hard labor. until the middle of the 17th century. portugal had played the main role in this atrocious business. then great britain, france and the netherlands took the leadership for the span of 400 years of legal and illegal slave trade. about 17000000 people were forcefully shaped across the atlantic. not including those who died on the way due to unbearable living conditions. modern historians estimate that for each slave ship to america,

there were 5 who died while captured during transportation, and cruel obliteration of rebellion. this ruthless beetle trade practiced by the leading european countries took away tens of millions of african lives. the organisation of united nations classifies that trans atlantic slave trade as one of the gravest human rights abuses in the history of humanity. this is the biggest act of deportation of people ever seen by mankind. ah, when i was so wrong, when i was just a sheep out, the thing becomes the african engagement equals the trail.

when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. by all accounts 2023 will probably be a continuation of the year and that is just ended more transformation and change more instability and uncertainty on this edition of cross talk, we examined the likely trends for the year ahead of us ah ah ah ah ah, a

ah ah, in the face of a complex and ambiguous international situation, we are ready to step up strategic cooperation with russia and provide each other with opportunities for development withstanding old tests. that's the summary of russian and chinese bilateral relations from vladimir putin. after a friendly video chat held with his counterpart. meantime, beijing hits back at western criticism over its removal of coven restrictions coming off to the very same nations called from china to do just exactly that. i'm footballing icon. a pele has died in the brazilian passed away 82 in his homeland for a long.