future rushing yes is the most bible and the most feasible source of energy for you and for most of your so that's going to continue a we're going to see rhetoric coming from the west. de. they want to lay off rush, you got, they don't want to buy, but the realities on the ground, the realities at home, the realities that the either the reality that they that rescued gas here to stay for quite a while and it wants to buy better stage being an energy port and not just rushing gas regional gas as well. so this is something that's very important, very central is energy policy. that energy portfolio going? yeah, some really impressive movies being made these days on the political chessboard use of adam. the editor of t. r t. well, joining us for it's time over, it's just about half past 8 in the evening as always. great to see you. thank you for your time. thank you for your time for joining us here at archie international

for this program from montana always great to have your company. plenty more stories at the top of the hour when we with with ah ah,

well, it's been 100 years since the formation of the soviet union. and although the country has not been around for 3 decades already, the impact it's had on world geo politics has been so profound that it's still a subject that's widely spoken about today. and today we're also going to get the opportunity to discuss that with the renowned russian philosopher, alexander doogan. thank you very much for joining us and giving us time for this interview and mr. dugan. the 1st question i want to ask has to do with the soviet union, specifically, do you think that it would have been possible to preserve it? and if it was preserved, how do you think the soviet union would look as a multinational country in 2022? the 1st of all, when it so understand that geopolitical is speaking, soviet union was a continuation over the russian empire, ideologically,

it was quite different. it was based on the totally opposite of values and i ds box as geopolitical entity, as heartland as erosion in the land mass and the region over the classic girths. oh, for geo politics are alike mac kinder or brzezinski. soviet union was direct continuation and to realization of the lent power opposite to was see power. so in that sense that was kind of realization over their main job politico contradiction. that is the quarrel all who human history according to my kinder. so if we consider that full all the soviet union and this geopolitical aspect, the meaning called that was a kind of defeat or the land power and frond,

oh that see power. that was a good 8 catastrophe. off of these, a hot land and the big achievements all of the sea power or global western liberal solution. in that sense, we could imagine a condemnation over all soviet union during cluster 3 decades alike. some uranus, the thinkers presumes eat a can or would be or could be the ant, older ideology of communism. it was almost inevitable unavoidably neat to get a read off these sir. exhaust that's soviet are a dogmatism. but that could not mean directly the fall of the soviet union on

destroy disappearance of unity of this job, political entity and e for soviet union would survive. and now this a catastrophe, eat a will be a kind of em, eurasia newnan, a kind of your asian empire or, or a torn today. it will classical russian empire with surgical central, isn't ant multiplicity over there at the new groups leaving inside. so i think that was quite possible and precisely now we are dealing with their will of the most goal to reconquer of this edge of political space. there is the moment of the return. so the geopolitics because a lent power once more, once now, to re assure, re affirm its independence sovereignty in front, off the collective west that ease to day, under, oh,

almost full control of that as well. and this is that balance, socratic, a lead off superpower. now we are reconstructing this journey, geopolitical space without overly, without, ah, soviet ideology, but trying to restore the greatness over the empire or recreate. oh, great, your asian union. oh, greer and you fall. the soviet union, of course, is something that's studied very heavily and other socialist countries that are still existing today, especially china. they study the fall of the soviet union, a lot to understand what they could do differently, as specifically as a communist country. so they've reformed into a more market model while still retaining this sort of socialist ideology. do you think that could have been possible if the soviet union were to be preserved?

i think it would be possible. and china precisely has got the main, the lesson all the fall of the soviet union that you should. and you are obliged to bruiser and safe to save the country, the unity, the strategical control over, eat, or including all, all ethnic groups. because china is mildly ethical society as well as soviet union or worse and roger ease, without and transforming, transform to the country without losing their power, all their central government. so you could make reform, you could change some are some aspects of economy, but you know, or shoot loose the sovereignty and control over geopolitical space. in order to make correct got transformation over the ideology, you should discard ancient tradition. so now china is

a communist political power, almost of the letter with confusion isn't in the center success, full control. oh, all we're growing a liberal market. the chinese didn't. it didn't a div talk that society a liberal democracy ways, a liberal market. they have preserve to vertical government over the country with a unique and who will unite that power political power. and they have submitted a liberal economy to it. and i think that is example how and the positive situation in the all us, russian, soviet union could be centralized power with full job, a little control over all parts and at the cur zones. we's

mixed economy, wiz combination o, the socialism ways traditionalism was great. the identity with russian tradition, well use l debt caught fox function that could work as it works in china. we have lost the chance to transform our society ideologically. but to prevent these collapse and to, to save the unity that is much more than soviet union because that is unity of the heartland of eurasia. the unit of empire, if it, if you want, so that it, that is possible. and china shows that it is possible collapse of the soviet union was suicide and not to adjust the demand for independence over a former republics that was a suicide made in the center. so we are fully responsible are,

we are actions. we are fully responsible for that. it's not only just nash willis fraud or from the periphery. that was the crime ah, mate by the government of moscow, by the center. what you used to the term near totalitarianism, connected to confucianism, to this, to describe what the modern china has basically reformed into. and it's interesting to me because as an american totalitarianism, the term, as i understand it, is basically has long been just a word that people in the west have used to attack russia or china. and when i'm, when i moved here, i realized that, you know, things are a lot more nuanced in countries that are just labeled totalitarianism. like the state just controls everything. i just wanted to understand like, what exactly did you mean by that in terms of china and also um in the soviet union, would you say that that was a totalitarian society as well in the west we have who are dealing with your total

return liberalism. so it, it is only hypo chrissy to to pretend that anybody else except the liberals, authoritarian regimes and for the lutheran, a liberals, on most of the letter in chinese for society is not only beryl or liberal to their there it is just the holistic we're going to use more appropriate, ward holistic, holistic system. it. this is the when the common law is foot over the individual who could blame that s the letter in, but we can blame us through there and as well of these liberal democracy debt brit dense to have the absolute truth. and to impulse this so called tools on anybody else in the world without, without regarding the, the particularity of different civilizations. so there is inherited racism and the

rest of the liberal liberalism because it then defy the western historical and political cultural experience with universal one. so if you say that the west, it, these the same as humanity, humanity is on the west, undeveloped as not yet western enough. it is purely racist approach. it could be openly racist as in a form of national socialism based on biology. but it is as will cultural racism that we are dealing with in modern days, liberal globalism. if chinese think this system or this regime fits them well, they like that it so that up to them to decide not to for the activists

of open society or proponents of liberalism. so let the people decide for themselves and death is the main principal all for a real, real democracy. if you want on the international level, we've been talking a lot about communism. and i want to ask if you see a sort of unifying ideology in modern russian society like the one that was in the soviet union. because obviously for most i would say of the soviet period, people were united by this one idea communism. they wanted to build communism and that that was something they had to strive towards. do you think that the modern russian people have something like that? and if not, what could fill that gap could not fill the gap. we could not return to this until the soviet time, but in spite of some sympathy, growing sympathy to the time but to return is impossible because we were,

we could not accept this dogma is max's is out of over the questions. so we need to get further and to, to, to mixer, the amount of social justice. so bit future wiz traditional traditional values for and by recently statement of our president that has made a degree in order to, to, to defend. and as a firm on the political level, traditional values and rational society. so i think that's that should be outside of political western modernity. we need to explore more rational tradition traditional level files of the sky or creation or public c. and we need to reduce goldwaire, non western or pre modern if you want to post more other types of political sol. so

we need to, to join primadonna davis postmodernity and we need to 5 to a relative ice to make relative the western experience. the west is only part of the humanity and in spite of it, but it pretending to be the coal over the humanity. it is not so. so we need story, the scholar around political thought when the russia wasn't under dominating influence over the west. so that is really a challenge for us to, to rediscover or recreate this ideology that should be organic, that should have, has, have, should have its historical dimension. but at the same time, the same time, it should be new, fresh, it should be creative and some way and all that in direct reputation. all the western liberal had gemini against open society against him.

there was a gaze, a liberal democracy that west tries to impose on everybody, but as well, to throw out communism as might be and precious as because all through political theories, main political theories, all 3 of them are originated and modern west and that sense, i agree was come out on western moderne, but there is still territory and we need to get out of this western type of reason to arrive thought that was it. if rash and organic should holism allows from all to books better. you ration our lives. and that could include the other traditional society in the and the main and the main symphony all over the, over the, at the groups or the peoples and religion. so that's,

that will be completely new form of i deal logy that much glove or maybe to you ration isn't or all some, some mixture between traditional or traditionalism and social justice. and how would you say economics plays into this because at least with the soviet experience, command economics made it significant contributions to the development of russia while at the same time we saw of course, diag nation towards the end. but in terms of market economics, we saw what kind of situation russia was in back in 2014, when it was much more connected to the western financial system in the west, decided to put sanctions on it as opposed to now when these unprecedented western sanctions, once russia was far less dependent on the dollar they had far less of an effect on russia. so where, where do you see economics playing into this being?

do you see a russian future more oriented towards markets or towards command economics? now, and our last decree of our president, the traditional way you, the main traditional really is accept that the predominance of the spirit over the matter. and that is quite russian. so that is the main main key. so economy, when you are obsessed with economy, you is obliged to follow more and more of this confrontation, this competition with the other more you are engaged and that, and the 5 to all logic of my mother, you will become the slave of mater and material material the transformation you are not anymore. muster of the economy you are, you will become slave, are gone him is so as you do more french social sociologist has said, in the 20th century, we had 3 political orders in communism,

liberalism and the pressures. coleman is liberalism, obsessed by you called them and they have shown more or less impressive results. liberalism, better of communism, slightly worse, but fresh, for example, was absolutely unconcerned by, by economists there was no specially fashioned sort of special national and socialist system of economy. and they have shown during hitler era, the resolve compatible may be much better than those. those are, is james obsessed with economy. so that doesn't mean that the pressure was good. absolutely. luigi. mom was french and democracy sociologist, she, she just wanted to emphasize that more you engage economy economy as theory, as the main criteria on all the man,

the less you are prepared to deal with real challenges. so i think that in russian ideology, in irrational life, we need to get rid of this obsession of economies. so, and that is the way to, to make economy really said so when it to, to great logical and natural approach to solve economic problem without any document is without this competition with a bit when socialism and capitalism. so when it to get rid of the dogmatism in economy and we need to put economy under that spiritual development. so we need to to say, 1st of full culture rather than civilization in spangler and terms. so our, our problem is not to be engaged in this or that an economy

co, a dogma when it's too tall to grin functioning, society, 1st of all, just basic based on justice, on tradition, all the happiness of the people and, and the, all these elements are more moral are more spiritual values then economy. and that doesn't mean we shouldn't, we should ignore economy law we, we should ignore economic dogmatism. if market economy works in some zone of society, let it be eve state go state involvement is a functional is, is positive. let it be as well if there is a common fo, communitarian approach in some or in some or group of population. let b go communes, some formal communitarian societies. so we should all get rid of any

kind or for all, what are public see in economy? what was the best economical performance in the history of the last century? we see that in the mixture. so for example, the american american strategy of mark until ism and protection isn't with free free markets in europe. that is, social social politics. almost socialism with some freedom of, of enterprises. so the balance between state and private capital is always changing. it is always relation. it is not the dogma. so we need to warn the relations relation that treats that would fit better to rush and experience the rational society and that would help

will help us better to solve the concrete ongoing problems. the cold war was marked by what many historians agree was x sort of bipolar world order between the west, the capital west and the socialist east. to what extent do you think that legacy of a bipolar world order is still relevant today? because a lot of people say that we're in a new cold war right now. what do you have to say about like multi multi polarity in the world? would you say that that they have some sort of parallels at the same time because the world does seem to be developing somehow into a more eurasian camp and the western camp that has existed for a while now. so on one side, there is still continuation of the pallet by polarity polarity because there is one full, untouched among the 2 poles that existed before the end of the soviet union. ah, one has disappeared. and the other is here is present. so that is the

kind of a residue off a bipolar system. and that west behaves itself as if it is still in this or cold bipolar world or war and to consider garage her as her hair or the soviet union with a whom were unit 225. so that is a kind of inertia that is continuation of that. bipolar o world region multiple edited is emerging now emerging now. but is something different? it is not one ideology against the other. one poll against the other, their ease totally different, a vision or a co existence, that doesn't mean necessarily war or conflict, but that doesn't mean necessary. and either a nicer piece. so it could, it depends. so multiple oddity it, this precisely the end of the by,

by polarity and with a, i may and idea that the west doesn't want to accept that in multiple oddity, that west, real not be one of the 2, but went off fuel pulse. and we would use the western claim over hedge immunity of universality. o. o for over globalism to some concrete borders. so that is a re, a re proven cell is ition of the west. that east precisely multiple out it, russia defense now. and it's war against a unit unipolar system, not only our alum ah, status or position as independent will, but as well, the other polls china, india, islamic world, latin america, africa. so that is the 1st multiple or war that is going on now

and you current because that west wanted at any price to preserve and safe, it had germany unipolar system that is contamination, old by polarity. and that is why such are, are also forbear such hatred. for russia, it is a continuation of bipolar understanding of all of them are to checked or over or international relations. main problem for the west to accept that west, quote b, a province or the humanity, not the sauntered, know the capital. so it is just a, but it is not the whole of humanity and multiple already is about that. so fighting for multiple already are ash a fight for a right to different civilizations to affirm themselves with. it's inherent our system ovalia's that could coincide or not coincide was really western. well,

so nothing universal exist in multiple edited. there is a kind of relate if bodily, universal isms, chinese universalism, islamic universalism, rationally, originally written. and it also is an african and latin american. so there is not, not only one universalism, western modern by their quote exist, and co exist. civilizations defending they write to create their own political cultural artist system. so that is the, the, the meaning of that multiplicity put reality off of the civilization. and multiple r a t fight against this claim, not against the west as such, but against the claim over the west. to be the model to be the unique example of the progress, all of the history of o and understanding of time of man,

of, of technology. so any civilization has its own right to ah, to understand or to enterprise. what man is. what time is, what god, this one death is what so good and evil? ah, so dead, it is up to civilization and there is no one unique universal model to impose on all the civilizations. that is, what is this fight? and ukraine is ah, long went out. so something wrong. when all 3, just a whole new world. you have to shape out. this thing becomes the african and

engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. lou needs to come to the russian state total narrative. i've stayed as i'm phone and ignore slant scheme. div a house, not up for a group in the 55 we did. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else with will ban in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state aren't russia for date, and c, r t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube. and pinterest, and with

awe in the face of the complex and ambiguous international situation, we're ready to step up strategic cooperation with russia and provide each other with opportunities for development withstanding old tests about the summary of russian and chinese bilateral relations from vladimir putin off for a very friendly video chat held with his counterpart. india's air force to successfully tests, an upgraded version of that new as to and it's a surface super sonic missile. the country's military says it will ensure a quote dobrynin on future battlefield. also in the program quote we reject.