she did it because she genuinely believed in these courses when i've heard her speak, for example, it, julian is one of the birthday party. so julian savage, i have been amazed at how strongly she believes in her ideals. a lot of these, i guess, you know, in, in the media world, in the fashion world, a lot of bill presentations that you have maybe for sure, rather than a rising, often from genuine conviction, their images that people could on for the rest of the world. and it seems to me, at least as an outsider, that she seemed really committed to the course. she was fighting for doctor before i let you go. and it's so good to have you on the program before we wrap up this hour here. live from moscow. did you think vivian westwood support the julian assange has helped him in his battle? suddenly so and she was suspended herself in a cage outside the corpse, wearing the yellow dress,

reminding everybody the style just the original canary in the coal mine. she, i was at an event where she was on the podium and she brought this wonderful effigy of assange and slice the head off, which really shocked many of us in the audience. and she was, she said, this is what they're doing to a savage. they're slowly murdering and, and it is near radical and many startling statements like that that she caught the attention of the public and allowed people to recognize that the case of a solid, which had been silenced for so long could be discussed in the mainstream. and could be discussed by those who don't. you haven't had any intentions. i think it was great. i think you're absolutely right. if you've been in westwood who became known folks, you know, certain outlandish antics, certainly got the tension show to places where she felt it was deserved. and

certainly julian sounds would have been one of those top priorities. doctor depot government engine driver and observe a julian sanchez extradition here and great to have you on the program tonight. thank you for your time. thank you for having me. thank you. thanks for your time as well. we are back soon with awe. in 18. 84, the german empire began its colonial invasion into nam may be from the very start. berlin encouraged the white colonists to settle in south west africa and take away the best land from the local drives. the germans were actively draining natural resources and using the local population as

a cheap labor source. this was causing major protests and led to a rebellion. in 19 o 4, the hero and nama tribes rebuild against german colonial rule. kaiser wilhelm, the 2nd was fully determined in order to suppress the rebellion with the utmost severity, against the inhabitants of namibia, germany through its 15000 well equipped army. all around the country concentration camps were built. in humane medical experiments over citizens were conducted within the period of 4 years. the germans killed up to 60000 people, among which there were 80 percent of the hero tribe, and 50 percent of the nama tribe. the events in south west africa are called the 1st genocide of the 20th century, and not without reason are compared to the holocaust just 2 decades later after the

massacre in namibia hitler's assault unit put on the same brown colonial uniform which push the world into the chasm of the 2nd world war ah ah. hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered on peter lavelle by all accounts 2023 will probably be a continuation of the year that is just ended more transformation and change more instability and uncertainty on this edition of crosstalk, we examined the likely trends for the year ahead of us i

cross sucking 2023. i'm joined by my guest, george samuel l. e. in budapest, he's a podcast to read the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals and merrick cash. we have martin j. he's in ward winning, journalist and commentator. and here in moscow, we have dmitri bobby, he's a political analyst and editor, and he knows me internet media project card, gentleman cross stock rolls and the fact that music can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. me go to george 1st in budapest, a george we just ended a very tumultuous year. a so many things have changed. there's so many uncertainties ahead of us here. i'm kind of kind of gambling that tad 20. $23.00 is going to be a lot like 2022. your thoughts? i think so too. overseas. always very dangerous to extrapolate from the yeah, that's just coming to an end to the year that's coming to be on the other hand, last year we had just had the, the to draw treaty is presented by president hooked into the united states and

nato. and we knew then that the response of the united states and nato would be nothing doing. we're not interested. and that in response, russia will launch some kind of what they called the military technical operation. and indeed that's what happened. and that it was indeed a transformational moment before the world. i suspect that this was having in the moment will continue into the next year. and they will continue to be this essential transformation of the geo political scenes. i know the western powers decided that this is the way they want to go. they want to go on weakening, debilitating, and bleeding, russia dry, and that's, that's the app. all of them are not going to stop from it. they don't care about what happens to your premiums,

and they just want to continue down this and why. and that's, you know, whether successful or not. it's also a very dangerous, but because the risk, oh, this was what's happening now and you great into becoming a full fledged shooting war between nato and russia is a real presence. i mean, it's not something we can just get around. and i think that's where we have to look through the, there's 2023 that we're going to get to that nightmare moment moment that we've been avoiding since the end of will to an actual shooting war between nato. and i think that's a good summation. you martin, another thing that i think we can expect in the new year is that with all the tumultuous changes that we saw in 2022, the world, the starting to get used to those changes. okay. rush is a sanction country. i don't think anyone in their right mind thing sanctions are going to end any time soon. and so what that does is it actually creates like

opportunities. you know how, how to move forward. we know what you have left behind and what you can't return to . and i think that that's i look at that just kind of an opportunity. it's a challenge, but it's also an opportunity martin. you know, i think people run across the western world are going to use to the set up, but they're also getting quite despondent about the repetitive stories that keep coming in the press about massive scale corruption becoming quite despondent to what's going on around the world and i wonder if that will change. i mean, looking at the globe, you know, it's very hard not to peer cricket cricket with a pin anywhere. look, i'm still coming from not only crane more, but couples with a lot of global. so countries with climate crisis change as well. you know, we've got got calamity all over the place. and i wonder if that really can stay as

you suggest, i think there might be a see change in media. i think that might be well a see change or a kind of awareness of how futile this war is and the awareness i think that will happen is that more people will begin to realize, well, every newspapers are not when they're educated or not that the crime war really isn't much to do with you at all. it's actually an international war between nature and russia and more increasingly so i would say more with just america. and russia is becoming less of a western when you look at the military spending a military aid which is declining quite rapidly in cash kit, you know, it seems to be america show from beginning to end. and so, you know, the spotlight really will be on biden, in 2023 to justify continuous, continuously sending what you just signed off. $40000000000.00 of aid ministry age . the administrate, 2020000000000. got policy congress. i didn't think it would. it did,

i wonder if 2023 will be a continuation of that when republicans take the the house? well unfortunately, martin, i don't put much stock in the end of the republican party in the united states, but you data point ok, there is still resistance or demo, you know, kind of a continuation of my question to martin. i mean, we have, we had all last year from march to the present, you know, sanctions and depaula tating sanctions according to the west. but not that is not the case here. and one of the things i find interesting living here is how people of adapted and, and actually start, are looking forward and not looking to backward course travel is not as easy as used to be. apple pay that will be russian version of that will be introduced in the spring. but the rush is really quite good at adapting. but the news we get from europe is they're not so good at adapting dema. well indeed it was a, you know,

many surprises and i can go to these, given the russian people, lots of and it's going to do in the recent interview. it's sad that when actually stop in february, me and my colleagues, we expect the army to do well. and we expect that they call in need to do much worse than they did. and in fact, the opposite, the patient had them, the war was not sure what's still going to win the bob, certainly not in the way it was black. you know, the plan was just to use a small expeditionary force and remove that quickly. you know and explain to the as possible. that didn't happen. however, there was a pleasant surprise for after all the other side, the country crept up to the very least. it wasn't sanctioned. i mean, you live in law school, you live in russia,

you see that these new year is not very different from the last year. the same restaurants are working. the same shops are open, people are feeling the copiers address. we have probably even more money to spend now because they left europe more people travel internally at southern to russia became a connection very, very pleasant, very interesting places to be. it's not just most current st. petersburg, despite how it is all die. it is north focus is lots of nice places. so in fact we want that wrong and we want that sand on one side and we love it much better than expected. on the other side. yeah, that's true. you know, church that mean to self sufficiency? i think that is the, the new calling card as we move forward for, for russia and for all of the countries that are victims of western had gemini, you know, also george is what's really interesting kind of a continuation of what's been said here already. is that um the ability to adapt. i

mean, i think now in retrospect rush, it was fully prepared for years that this was going to happen is you and i have said so many times is that, that the russians will cave they'll, they'll be angry, but they'll, you know, they'll cave and, and nature will expand and in the west will get its way, but that's not the case anymore. we saw that in 2022. they were to see that in 2023 and being able to adapt to adversity. well that the west is full of big words and so called values. but they're not very good at adapting george. no, they're not a good at adapting and really we look back in retrospect and think what uh, where the g 7 and the e u in the united states thinking that's how we will impose the mother of all sanctions. and we will bring the russian economy to then these, i mean, you know, they actually saw them believing their own propaganda, which is very dangerous of russia is nothing more than

a gas station with nuclear weapons. i mean, russian is the biggest energy, but use or in the world is the biggest grain producer in the world based fertilizer producer that well, you know, person, precious metals producer in the world. i mean. ready russia a produces things that one to buy, that's very difficult to bring such an economy to a need. and of course, they didn't bring russia to, it's me and it isn't the but the europeans, not so much america, the european was suffering the consequences because the europeans consume of energy and food and the rest. and they don't know what to do about it in the united states is happy to see europe in economies collapse deem is absolutely right. but at least the reversal of what we've been expecting with both of the the russian military would achieve a quick victory. whereas the economy might be dodgy, you know, 11, those many, whether the war has continued the 2014,

the outcome would have been the opposite. russia, my van of achieve quick military victory and knocked out the post my regime and had a team then the security and stability of a soul. even the konami hardships that russia would have suffered then might well have been detrimental. we didn't, we don't know. but nonetheless, it's a serious issue. the russia haven't been able to wrap this up a little generally as it code and should've done a year ago. and we're going to martin last 40 seconds before we go to the break. while european leads learn anything from 2020 to martin, it seems that they are learning anything at all they're just in the hills. and because they believe that there is an end game. and they believe that this campaign that they have will, as i think jude put it will do, will drain the russian ministry. but that's not happening. and you know,

the year itself is just slowly becoming much increasingly ineffective and relevant, irrelevant as. ready days past with corruption scandals, many, many countries now around the world and on looking to russia and to bridge partners is different geopolitical part. and so i think come, you know, where they lead to europe and learning a tool, but they will have to start looking at the polar that thought, we're going to discuss that. when we come back from our break, gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the year to come. 2023. the ah

ah mm hm. mm. and i to business with boston, you are the dispute. good. i did miss stewart with key at the berlin ocean housekeeper. bruce this to the dealer. monica, could you please give us a little bit less money to do well? spoke with us to phone and send the full claim because i need it with cash. when she goes to pluck superficial lithium door, you prevalence zavala,

but yet with the school ah ah, welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter labelle to remind you were discussing the upcoming year 2023. ah. okay, i wanted to touch back with martin again, you said something at the very end before we went to the break that i'm fine. i find fascinating. the europeans have in their mind, i suppose collectively and, and game. what do you mean by that? because their pre game, they screwed up pretty badly. i mean, is it going to be any debra there and game. go ahead martin. sorry, go ahead. you know, they think the end game will finally be the who reaches out and says, look, let's talk, i want to stop this morning. what evidence?

i know that's what they want, but what evidence is there that russia would even entertain that thought for a nano 2nd? i mean, you know, when you, when you have these kind of things, you need to have leverage. where's the leverage, keep going. leverage. there's no leverage, there's no evidence, it's just, it's just the echo chamber. you know, when you cut away the news outlets. the don't chime with your narrative. when you sign this journalist, when you actually just kept, keep on thing on the drum, i'm just listening to your own narrative and believing only in what comes from your own mouth, from your political parties. that's the problem is, you know, there's nobody standing up and questioning any of this, but 2023 is going to be a deal breaker. that is the last year before europe, the u embraces. it's rally into the elections and the following year. and 2023 importantly has at least 17 countries in africa,

which are going to be quite a bit of unrest writing. and everybody will looking tools to europe. and you just say, what's going on. all you guys really doing anything here. you know, you talk about your big plan, you're bold, you know, foreign policy and billions that your waste in brussels, but we don't see any action from you. a tool and a panic is going to start to stay in from a you leaders. so they're gonna, they're gonna lose the you because when the people go to the post finding the next year, the worry is low voter turnout. and that is going to start already 2023. and i think in africa because i'm in africa. i think you're going to see more and more countries becoming known aligned. this is going to be the next. i want to have a little bit more about the global south that a person want to go to d ma here. d ma, the, you know, as a russian citizen, you know, russia was very much demonized in 2022 and by a well oiled propaganda machine, no descent is allowed. if you disagree, then you're somebody's puppet, and you know, i mean, but demon,

the love affair that rushes had with, with the west, particularly europe for the last 300 years that come to an end. or is it just on a pause? well, i will suggest that the listen, you know, take some time and listen to that recent statement. strong russian forum used to lower all for from president. and while we're on basically said a few days ago that you know, we're not going to be duped again with a leadership that's now that, you know, with the leadership the united states. because right now it's very difficult to do business. they don't observe that they don't observe. laws don't abide by the international law. they talk about the rules based on the rules are the ones that buy them, not based on their, their determine where washington determined by brussels. so russia has no illusions

about the current leadership on the west, but i wouldn't say that the all along with europe can here for just 300. yes, rush it easy. you were you whether we wanted to know whether they will die, states wants it or not, or whether bureaucrats in brussels want to rush it, easy european country with european culture and with european history. so i'm sure that these terrible ideology which unfortunately cold, all night the states and europe being, you know, when they say defeated and it will be defeated because it is not scientific. it is already losing. they come, it is really military. you know, the go buying for us, all the class in your grade are unable to defeat russia and both sides are still using last late. so we have laid out that the west is not on very well. so in the end, in the end,

when this i defeated went to return to normal relations with the rest of europe. and we'll do well. ok, well, demo written the ideology, neoliberalism. the during to it's i could end any time soon. it is going to create a global disaster before it leaves the scene. ok, let's georgia let's, let's talk a little bit about the global south or the global majority as i like to call it mean what we saw in 2022. and i think we're going to see in the new year is the, there are, there are alternatives out there. they're the non western world, russia, china, iran, i'm all with great civilizations, great cultures and traditions and all that. and that's what the west really hates. they really hate that, that, that there is an alternative out there. they talk the talk of diversity, but they want no diversity whatsoever. you must go, you much abide by their ideology or you'll be cancelled as they're trying to cancel everything related to russia. george?

yeah, there is in the now alternative available bricks and then you more and more countries want to join the breaks the shanghai cooperation organization. there are new international institution, new alternatives to the i, m. f world bank and global order that was created in the aftermath of world war 2 and the chinese and are developing a world development bank gave alternative to the well that. and, you know, the global south is indeed looking a bomb. lee isn't saying out, we don't have to play the west game. we don't have to sit and listen to the lectures. so this is this economical donor, but those are the alternatives, all the values, the values that the currently espoused by the united states in the west, you know, with what we call them, the war culture, the l g, b, t, q,

i class culture. it's alien too much of a well, i mean, this isn't just simply, oh, well, you know, the, i thought was in iran, there they, they have the wrong. now we are tray though, it's the rest of the world that just doesn't understand why the west is espousing notions of how human should live, that humans level live by in millennium. and so even on the russian embrace thing an or is it kind of the leader reaction against the will the western will culture just as a leader of reaction against neo liberal economic model. yeah, i mean, a martin that joe biden celebrated a gathering of african leaders from what i understand. there wasn't even a one to face to face one meeting with any of those leaders. i may be wrong, but what i understand here and the whole issue was ukraine and africa was

like what, how the chinese were here. they're building bridges in roads and schools and hospitals. ok. i mean, this is just arrogance that comes from the west. i mean, it is, i've said many times is that know that the west is no longer feared. ok. we have the d dollarization going on trading and local currencies, different financial institutions as a whole literature i out there called the world beyond the west. it's very, very real and it's taking on meaning and i think 2023 is this good. it will celebrate that martin, africa leaders. you know, they watched the biden stunt, i'm not going to start with the, with the, with the jewels. why don't you know, absolutely incredible. i don't look, look up kind of stuff now. look at 2023 will break records in afghanistan. it will make us remember the t v footage from cnn in 1980 as of half kind of standard women of the cassette player, the streams of cassette tape being,

being strewn across the street from the central couple africa stands going, but the middle ages because of us foreign policy just failing completely on the whole so level and those african leaders talked about, they watched that they witnessed that. they said, where do we fit tricia and all this is this what happens to us when we don't tag along with us a gemini, you know, and, you know, i mentioned 17 election to know what very carefully because of us are in africa. and the next couple of months beginning faso is wobbling, and it looks like it's going to fool and no longer become a french satellite state anymore. just as money did a couple of months ago. if pikeno fest fools, that will be a precedent that will be france losing all of its influence in africa, which means losing all of its edge. there will be no more western story or crunch speaking africa and countries like morocco or am for example, will play more of a role of being a big brother and creating him, the structure and banking services and things like that. so this is what will we

have to look forward to? is it, i think my money is on the tipping point, being in africa, it'll start in africa in 2023 and other countries around the world who watched that and say, well, if africa can do that, if ever concern to china for investment, to business, perhaps, to, to russia for security and to countries like morocco or turkey for other things. you know, then, why can't we, you know, dmitri, last year, joseph burrell talked about europe, is being the garden and the rest of the world, being the jungle. i think in 2023, the world is going to see the day. there are many gardens out there and it's not in europe. dimmer. you are exactly right. it is now all this will be no single global a. the, as a lot of people expect that in the mind give already women that are going to be at least read globalization. there is going to be in bond globalization around the

united states and european union. and some of their allies in legend, america, in africa, was in canada, salia. but there will be another global is the around russia, china, with many countries from africa joined with many companies from wedge in american, georgia. and there will be a 3rd, a 3rd group, i think it will be copies which are somewhat jittery about being too reliant on china. so they will have globalization also. so the role that reminds me of all the cold war times when there was the west, the soviet more and then on the line. and the experience shows that this is not a bad actually when you have one single system in the world, when you have the government, when, how want price to be comfortable government? usually these people suddenly become extremely stupid. and the reason why napoleon

will waive he is congenital book a. would you mind know that the russian sanctions now, like hitler, wanted to build huge german? and by around the world, we're going to compete in globalization. and what's going on in your brain? i think it's not between russia, united states, and of course it's not between russia and it's between forces or the west steel prior to, to maintain they are he gemini and then you are forces which are not support in russia. there are many countries in fact which support probably not have time, but i can think of a better way to end this program. thank you very much. i want to thank my guess in budapest, marrakech, and in moscow. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. remember cross the room.