the decisions taken by the e a. c. it's also firmly urges all states of the region to prevent the provision of any support to arm groups active in the d i. c, or this kansas hat tensions escalate once again in the region as well. and as it has accused, the d r. c, a violating his ass base for a 2nd time that's off to a military plane, trespassed into one's entire, it's round wednesday. however, kinshasa has denied it was a provocation called the incident, an unfortunate mistake. democratic republic of congo, backed by the e. u insists that were one day supporting violent and 23 militia group on his territory and supplying it with weapons and ammunition. those allegations have been denied by kigali, according to the un reports due to the n 23 activities and fighting within the d. r . c. tens of thousands of people have been displaced over the years. in an attempt to deescalate tensions last thoughts on the east africa regional forces deployed canyon troops. there. as peacekeepers, some locals who spoke to his wishes to remain anonymous. say the atrocities have

intensified. why the security desk would have no security. the people are suffering a lot, the have no access to food, the rabble solution, everything in the fields. there was no kit, not been in our village before, but sees the m 23 war starts. it is become a frequent problem. many people have disappeared. some have been shot that and others have been taken away to a known locations. many people have died. both men and women and their bodies have been found in various places and musical people are kidnapped, women raped and children killed in mass. is the situation that terrifies us because we're afraid to what these terrorists are doing, and we're sure could happen in the city of goma. all these young people, taken hostage, do not want to be ruled by m 23. we've asked our authorities to address the situation, we fear the worst because terrorists, respect human rights. and it's shameful to see all these organizations that are supposed to protect human rights sitting on their hands or in the face of such

offering the yellen bow. how a bendy when he, thanks for joining his. hey, on archie international this monday. that's all for me to day, but you know neil will behave with all the latest in 30 minutes. ah, ah, ah ah ah ah.

ah ah. hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, by joining washington's ukraine proxy war against russia. europe is made an irreversible choice. it is consigned itself to being a minor regional power in a multi polar world cutting itself up from russia. europe has all but assured it will be overly dependent on the united states. that dependency will be costly.

ah. crossing europe's choice. i'm joined by my guest, basine 1st coast in london. he is professor of international relations at the university of east london as well as editor of the journal of balkan and near eastern studies in north florida. we have tom, we won, go. he's publisher of gold, goats and guns, blog, and newsletter. and in prague we have brad blankenship. he's a columnist at c g t n, a freelance reporter shinla, as well as an r t contributor or a gentleman cross i girls in effect, that means you can jump any time he want. and i always appreciate tom, let me go to you 1st in north florida. did i overstate my introduction that europe is consigning itself to be a regional minor regional power in a multi polar world. it's getting pretty bleak for the european future. i would say your thoughts, tom? yeah, i would agree with you on appear the,

the big issue for europe is that it's clear clear that the, that rushes done with them and that's a bigger issue. the man, knowing that this, this, all price has gone into place. the, the funny part now is that, you know, the headlines will be written that russia's going to have to cut production and this is going to hurt or bunk there. there the bottom line bubble. why it's always framed in terms of how bad it is for russia, but nobody actually talks about whether food has actually game plan for this. whether it has now a strategic move as far as i'm concerned, after the, the recent drawn strikes inside russia. we're looking at the de facto start for a major or kinetic war, and if i'm prudent, i'm not selling oil under any circumstances to my enemies. okay, let's see. let's say in london, basically the same question here because i like how what, what tom said in the beginning of his answer is that, you know, the, the, the russians have had it with the europeans. ok. but obviously in western media,

it's always framed in a very the opposite way here. really? tom's absolutely. right. i mean, they need reliable partners. europe has shown itself to be unreliable, particularly in energy. we had former chance. merkel come out and basically say, yeah, the min scope processes were just deploy, they're showing their hand, they're showing their, i'm sorry, they're really gross dishonest, dis, odyssey the russians are done with them. ok, now the euro pass to pay the price. go ahead in london. yes, thank. i don't disagree with what i heard, especially with those who are what tom says, what i would like just give could be for packing that in the discussion with that in the triangle between us, europe and russia. it has really ever been you open independent political actor in global affairs. i doubt it was always dependent on the united states title in even the production of the year was pretty much

a project encouraged by the united states. so this a core core relationship between 0 and the united states. very strong alliance in terms of the world and been so what that invest in this is all its been sold. but on all united states, those exactly united states was always the bill was 6. hello, rushed from that project. i mentioned the 2nd to the end of the, of the 2nd world war that was the united space project fixed with russia, from european past. so he got this back. it's my knowledge is correct. i think that russia despise all the prize stopped by we can start to dorothy what russia should never stop talking to europe. never. that's my, that's my, my, my understanding of jason in particular. now, in the, you mean

a period in which globalization, since, as we know it seems to be at the end or after 9, we need to factor in sila, you know, in this war you're getting way ahead of me. it's on my checklist of questions, right? you're going to get great minds think alike. ok. brad, basically the same question, but you know, bradley but see what says that, you know, russian needs to keep talking to year. but i mean, if europe wants to control the conversation, what is the point of having a conversation? ok, i mean, it has to be a 2 way street. it's not that way. right now, i don't see. it's going to be that way for a very, very long time. go ahead, brad. you know, i can see that then that's true because, you know, i think that there is, there is this kind of been a desire from people within europe to be politically economists, even though their entire political system do the you is been the holden to the

united states, but at the same time, the politicians here lack the courage to stand up to washington even though they know that washington is undermining their interests. but ironically, the same time, these politicians, these pro, you pro western politicians that are put in europe down this path. they don't really have any leverage here. i mean, there's kind of this running joke now in europe that we're going to be, you know, like a summer holiday destination for the chinese and the americans because of the industry here is going to be completely got it. and without cheap russian energy industry in central europe in germany is completely screwed. i mean, you know, when, when you look at central banks all over the world use energy, you use energy usage as a primary predictor of economic growth. and we've seen that the demand for energy is gone down. and the same time you politicians are saying, this is a positive thing that we're, you know, building up our gas supplies,

in case russia hall, the flow of energy to euro. but that's a bad thing. that means that economic growth here is going to go down. that means we're going to be in a recession for years, if not decades, potentially without, you know, cheap ration energy that we can use for industry here. and i don't see that these politicians have any leverage, and i think that this is going to usher in just the industrialization of europe as a result. well, again, you have great minds think alike that was going to be my question for tom, is this, is this a, an intentional plan to de industrialized europe on the part of the americans? tom, i don't think it's the americans solely. that's doing this. this is the, this is the great heresy. on my part, i'm sorry, as an american, i see the old colonial hand of europe desperately trying to hold sway over the way they run. they use us as the tip of the spear i, i really think that this whole thing is ideologically driven. i, the europeans, they're the ones out there screaming about european values and democracy. we have to save democracy but destroying it and all the rest of the day. if you look at

people like bonder land, michelle and barrel, and the rest of them, they're all ideologues for this thing in the the americans are simply, they are cynical, ground troops and i, and that's the way i see this. and i, and it's almost impossible to get me off of this point despite that, it's very important that we stop just framing all of this is oh, look at the evil americans pushing you with. i mean, little it's, i don't think it's for it's for deborah. i was absolutely, i tell you this is important in europe is absolutely. um they're, they're lock step with the european with this they want this war as much as everybody else. okay. when, who blew up the pipelines, then sealants. okay. i mean, obviously the u. s. benefited greatly from that at the kasha germans in the cost of europeans, which is a lot. and i mean, let me go to our get. let me go to my guessing line is in the hang on a harmons were tom top venting, and the germans went along with it because the german grandmother wants to do it

when they go to my guest in london. basil is what do you think about that? because it gave the americans enormous leverage by but having those having those pipelines blow up, go ahead in london to actually move very a winner of this world to the united states because it increases on your blog, complete and germany from, from, from russia and oil and gas and as well, by the same time the united states can protect itself from integration and subsidizes. it's called making its companies more competitive witness. they 430000000 faces reduction. i mean, united states is very much a consensus, actually always was no disengage european energy policy from from rash circle every year by the expressible injury, which is not even enough. so that's why, that's why a russian government continue just continue to be although they kept it now,

they want to cover the price. but even this is not, not going to want to list. and russia has many alternatives that but my initial point, i think you should be taking a board. why? because it depends on what kinds of solution we want on here for that. what do you want an american solution? what do you want a solution which is marked by the stand by europeans and russians, and chinese is the one a european radian solution or in america so. so that's the key question. right? that's a very interesting question. we'd like to feel that go ahead. yeah, i mean, you know, i think that we, you know, the question of whether or not the europeans or the americans or whoever is running to show it for sure. the americans, i mean, you know, that's definitely true that the europeans, i mean that america is definitely

a product of the colonial listening, peerless mediocrities that emerge in europe. better indigenous this continent here . but the, but the united spaces is the crystallization of bad. i mean, like the nazis said that the greatest moment and in the history of white power is the creation of united states of america. everything that is wicked about the west is, is, is ramping in washington. and the solution that they're putting forward is, is everything that's evil and dastardly about the west, that's the solution that putting forward it's dominating in joe biden gives a speech a t s m. c, the new headquarters as states and says that we're putting out american products. this is not just a signal to the chinese, you know, that there is a trade war against china. this is also talking about south korea that's talking about japan. this is talking about europe, especially, you know, that the industrialization of europe will benefit america with, as the other guests mentioned the, the inflation act. yeah. you know,

the united states is setting themselves up to benefit greatly from the industrialization europe and the death. that's going to come on this continent here, even though supposedly we're lock step, supposedly we are equal partners with the americans. but that's not true. well, i mean one side, one side and trying on guy usa guy. and i have to go to a break gentlemen and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on europe. joy, stay with our team. ah ah, ah, ah. with

ah, welcome back across stock where all things are considered on peter level to remind you we're discussing europe's choice. ah hey, let's go back to common north florida. it's already been brought up in this program . i think it's really worth talking about more is a we experiencing the end of globalization as we've understood it for the last half

century. because it seems to me that with this gambit that the u. s. is a playing visa v. russia and using the proxy war in kit in ukraine, is that the u. s. wants to go on its own controlled globalization, which europe would be part of, and they'll be other globalization of china we can talk about as well. it seems to me that there is a parting of the waters as it were. go ahead. tom and north florida. i agree with all that. i also think, oh, most of it i what i really think is going on here, don't get me wrong. not trying to absolve the americans for their part in what's happening out here. it's clear that that's what's going on. i just don't want anybody to, to think that europe didn't make a conscious choice here. that these, that the perceived weakness of european leaders is as being subordinate or vassals to the eyes. it's, it's just nonsense. it doesn't, it's not real. so when you look at what's happening, but i think is happening is very clearly that there are forces within the united

states or that are working to try and save what's left of what's been, how it out over here. while others are still trying to sell it out, i think the by the administration is trying to sell it out. i think we're, we've seen a pushed by the fellow reserve in the near sand, new york money center banks in order to stop that process. really somewhat and we see with the end of globalization, it was the clear end of the dollar reserve standard on the horizon. there is a breaking of the system and europe is going to be left in the dust and it's in geo politics. arono allies are only interest and as far as i'm concerned, you install a fungus like biden, for the purposes of doing, of tax normalization with europe's your ruinous tax policy. energy policy that's in st. lockstep with cop 27 and all that stuff. like at the end of the day, i don't see the biden administrations working for the united states. and i think this is part of the, the real disconnect here. and that's the issue for me and the, and i see all of these, these, these things happening. i don't disagree with that,

but the yes on the big trend, i just don't think that the americans are the sole evil empire here. i think that's a very, that's a very dangerous narrative and letting the europeans off the hook for your complicity in this, this, they want to do this, the destruction, the middle class in your is not a bug. it's not a bug created by the americans. it's a feature of what, what europe wants to do to transform itself into the next version of the ussr because that's what the e was becoming. well, i mean, democratic poet, bureau lead, i know, been traveling. i absolutely agree with that here. but one thing if i go back to our guests in london, i mean there's one commonality here and we know who, who is a top of the totem pole. we can all discuss that and killer all blue in the face. but they do have one thing in common is ideology. they're all ideologically possessed. is neil liberal ideology. that is one thing that they all have in common here. and it's disastrous for middle class is all across the western world. go ahead in london. okay. yes. a look i i,

i can't say i disagree with who are the head, but he said it's important that we get our priority, right. who is the dominant power today in the global system in the west european union or the united states? european union does not even qualify to be called the state is not, doesn't have federal sector, has some, some primitive federal structures, but it doesn't have a few, some unity, there is no, even a union of the banking sector. after the massive or biking crisis. we have the leaders in crisis, so you'll be in unit can be very well defined as an international organization and should be more tight on the, on the united nations are. so we don't, we don't deal here. we're taking the unified actor that should be taken away. that's so crucial. it is so, so crucial to understand that nathan, institutionalized, the dependency of europe for the united states,

the boys hear their voice. the peons have is pretty much a boy's of the elite of european business inc. that is with the lips of united states business in this and also taking it back on security security medicines. so do not be surprised if i tell you that so many splits that are within the european parliament, european commission. and so, and there is no one boards. that's why i keep, say, keep talking to the europeans. if you don't want to play the u. s. game of excluding russia from european offense. russia should not be excluding from, well, ok, but let's see, let's say, you know, who is excluding home here in europe. it is excluding russia. ok. not the other way around. ok. i and, and, and it came to a finer point here. as you've already said, this program rush, it energy is still going to europe. ok. they didn't cut it off. it's a europeans that are cutting off russian energy. let me go to brian. he may go to

brad in prague here. you know, one of the things that we're hearing is that the, the, the americans want the, the europeans to go along with their policies against china. that's not going to go down very well in europe. brad. yeah, actually i just wrote a piece about this and in fact, you know, you'd bind people like just the bro even have the courage to say that european countries don't want to have to choose between beijing and washington. and that's because it's just in their plain self interest. i mean, but it being the china has a lot to offer the european union trying to the consumer market within the next decade will be bigger than the united states. and they are hungry for european goods. i mean, as long as those guys are cheap and not, you know, completely screwed on price because irrational energy is not accessible to the market of course. but, you know, there's, there's a lot of fruitful cooperation there. and i think there's a lot of nato alice not locked up on this. i think i would like to come in with the

other guess. i think we also definitely have to be very crystal clear that europe is budding out russia, but that is to be, has to be america. i mean, they have tens of thousands of troops here. they spy on european politics, and these are demonstrated will fax me notice you, can you walk out your door here in europe and you see it, they are colonizing europe. europe is the vassal state, the united states, the you, it's not a country. this is disjointed. countries that are being forced against each other. and just as you know, the globalization has created a natural relationship between russia and the you integrating both of these economies. i think that there is a natural relationship between the russian people and people in europe. here, there is a natural political relationship just as globalization has been fruitful for both sides in russian energy creating europe's industrial base. i believe that the russian people are inextricably connected to people here in europe, not least because they are european of course, you know,

i think that we have to be clear that it's washington doing this. and i think that russia should continue to engage in europe because russia needs to be a political actor in europe. and that's also because the united it part of its grand strategy is the forces to compete with china by pushing it out of europe, forcing it to be an asian power enforcing china and russia to compete against each other. perhaps breaking their strategic cooperation, which would be detrimental to the world, the strategic cooperation between russia and china is so important in keeping this multi pearl polar world, emerging multiple world order together, one that is against american hedge money. and that is so important. okay tom, yeah, i saw you nodding your head there. you are in agreement. go ahead tom. i agree that i agree that russia and china need to be, than they need the same walks up with one another and, and in the way the nathan bradshaw said tells me that, that,

that's not going to happen. what they just like moved to strategic palmer's across to, to each other's air basis. for i say nothing. the u. s. is doing is stopping it. they're trying desperately to drive a wedge. that's what policy going to taiwan was of as what the chips act was about . and i get that, but understand that you listen, sitting in prague, you cannot see what's happening here in the united states, which is our institutions are being destroyed from within, from foreign powers. and it's very obvious. none of these people worked for the united states. they are all trying to normalize our or even make worse, our ability to handle capital and they can handle capital worst than they already handle it in europe. ok, because capital flows were capital was treated best. and right now, it's still treated best by the united states. 21 percent corporate tax rate versus a 20 percent 26 percent frank. they want but buying wants to raise the 28. now why would he want to do that? if he's actually acting in the american or american interest, he's not ok, none of this is about keeping the right nice states alive. this is about this,

this is, am i literally breaking up the united states and to many people are actually going to tear this. and this is go and this is a bad idea, not that i'm a huge fan of the united states in any way, manner, shape or form. but all of these things are being driven, as peter mentioned, as by ideologically possessed, people who believe that we can move to a different type of system. ok, and it's not necessarily just the americans driving this. there are it is that it is at the end of the day whether we are going to have public formation of happ, public, capital formation or private capital formation. and there are forces within the u. s. it's still believe in private capital formation. and the people at the top of our political system are aligned with europe that we need to have public capital formation. the end of sent the, the end of commercial banking, the end of all of that stuff. and this is all the sub text of what's going on with the, with the, the situation in ukraine and how it's being handled. but the don't kid yourself in any way, manner, shape or form. this is about the destruction of the united states. and everybody thinks that will be a great thing. i got news for you at the united states falls apart in the worst way

imaginable. no one is going to be happy about the results. nobody. well, the russians of the europeans, not anyway. well. ok, because of that, you think that you do you think the end of the ussr was ugly? you just wait to see what happens. dad says, well if it goes down it's going to take a good part of the world with it. there's no doubt about that. ok. it's he lives in london. can the european union survive? because you know what, you know, people talk about getting through this winter. ok. they're going to get through this winter. it will be uncomfortable, but they will. but what about the next 5 winters? that's where the real challenges go ahead in london. that i can predict the future . it will be tough for everybody. again, you have to realize, i think people a few of understand what is wrong here for us in relationship go back to normal as it were, the thing was it was in the interest of germany to go up to 5. i think it was a good station, pipelines in northern soon and so on. there were,

these are here in german front and this is what we do not want to stop the european snow. the elite snow very well when they speak, they speak with american language. that's my point is not political, you know, if you don't have any depend on it, of course not to shape it. and he's up to russia at liebherr. i think my stupid, you know, from a great, i mean 9097 been steve wrote a book, the parents of that book. the gun just bought them from the purpose of that book was how to avoid the americans having to face the situation in which europe, moscow and china we'll have a united grayson i. we have run out of time, gentlemen, but i think that's why we have the answer. that's why ukraine happened in the 1st place due to address, but we just heard in london, that's all the time we have gentlemen. many thanks, i guess in london,

prague. and in north florida, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are key. see you next time. remember, cross talk with ah, a minute, i mean you flee a magic, you pretty much listen, look and you live muscles. if you look on the initial, do want to pull up a post on a used to put value when you, when you do do origin. but you also still listed on the thought it was a

you would you what i see the student both use the little gear motivation says do you do it on both? ah, 6 people are wounded. dr. ukrainian troops shell a hospital in the loop council republic. according to local official to say to you, use us supplied. hi marge rockets in the attack. all to coming up on the program today. i us politicians from nato's chief award criminal. they should be tried at the hague, for pumping ukraine with weapons a year of fear and violence for the people of them with 2020, to seeing more than 10 fold increase in terror, attacked by ices on allocated in the formally stable west african country.