now the location of a very large u. s. military base, a u. s. government to make a military base and just deported or douglas and people from their country. so they call it returned back on the island. no, but we are fighting. that's why i'm fight. we'll fighting for the right so i. c we do not consider the right to self determination actually applies to the jiggle. since i don't the question of self determination, the legal advice we have received is actually the chic options. we're not at all, not a people. for me, it's time to move on and see what we can do for the tumbler, said committee to return back home. there is no support from the united nation. i commission african united nish. i don't care about chug or send people ah

ah hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. i am peter level. are we witnessing the end of globalization as we have known it for about the last half century? it would certainly seem so. the west, the ability to shape the world and its own image also appears to be on the way. as a result, should we expect new regional and block globalization ah cross sucking globalization, i'm joined by my guess arthur clara in toronto. he's a liberty advocate in a freelance editor in washington. we have thomas polly. he is founder of the economics for democratic and open societies project. and in bristol, we cross to john he brower. she is

a spokesperson for the world anti imperialist form, as well as author of drive to war against russia and china. i cross accruals in effect, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate, are there. let me go to you 1st year. we didn't get a lot of coverage in western media, but there was a really big meeting between the chinese leader and a in re odd with the of the saudi leader. and if you compare and contrast with what it looked like compared to biden biden got a, you know, a bump, a shake, and the red carpet came out for the chinese leader. huge deals being made, energy deals, infrastructure deals. thou works here. um, this is very indicative of how the world is changing when you say absolutely, absolutely. sometimes i worry that the western world is so caught up in its own worry for lack of a better term, but we're noticing what's going on around the world. i know we're part of the last

10 years, not more as been and expanding was i colonial power and it's projecting more and more of the power in the world, including in, in the western world. you're in canada, united states and elsewhere. yeah. it's absolutely. thomas, i can go to you, i mean, the globalization, when it was 1st conceived, it was quite popular and people were quite supportive of it because it will make the world like the west. well, that's not really panning out the way they thought it would. it is a matter of fact, there's a lot of dissolution with it, even in the west. i mean, the us seems to be moving away from it and creating its own block. hence, what i had to say at the end of my introduction, you have a eurasia block, an american block that is subjugate in europe. we're seeing it. we're seeing it falling apart. fragment. go ahead, thomas. well, let me just backtrack a little. what author just said, i don't see china as a colonial power at all. i see china looking after its national interest,

and it has a national interest in having access to energy. it has a national interest in secure c lanes. it has a national interest because it's a massive, massive manufacturing power and being able to trade. and i see that is really what is driving. china is global engagement. of course, it also has a national interest in as, as a regional superpower, immediately in the south china sea. and of course, as, as a major, powerful nation as having a respected position in the global system. and i suppose that that's really the tension between the united states and china. united states is trying to deny china all of that as regards saudi, the saudi visit. yes, this is very interesting because saudi arabia has been the linchpin of

u. s. power in the middle east. and i think one of the interesting things that i think you can begin to connect some of the dots here. some of the stuff that the u . s. has done over the last 15 years, just beginning to backfire now, particularly regarding using its power to bully other countries. and of course, you know, we've seen this in the russia, ukraine conflict the, the way that the u. s. confiscated russia foreign reserves. the attempt by the western powers to under cut russian russia economy. most recently by this oil cap machination saudi arabia reads all these things as well. and it seems that these same tools can be applied against it. india in india, that modi is seeing the same. i in latin america, i suspect all the latin american leaders are seeing the same. everyone begins to connect the dots except the folks in the us who are imperial masika. you're

absolutely right. it's back. just let me go to you. i mean, it's more pernicious than that because if you don't want to play our game, we're going to punish you. we will even punish so called allies. ok. this is very interesting as well. and there's the pushback that we have seen maybe not from allies, but the rest of the world is d dollarization. now once that happens then global hegemony comes to an end. chelsea go ahead will definitely what we're seeing is the, the waning of u. s. global hegemony, which let's face it really, i took on a new aspect with the collapse of the soviet union and with the collapse of the soviet union that the but the sort of balancing act between the socialist world at neg capitalist, imperialist world kind of collapsed and we had this ramp and imperialism which was like, right, we can lose everywhere. we can wage war against everyone who stands against us. every body better get in line or will be invading you and,

and stealing your wealth. and people felt that they had to countries that they had to get in line. they weren't strong enough to stand alone against u. s. bullying. you know, look how difficult it's been for countries like north korea, q by iran hooper, under sanctions regimes for decades. you know, without much relief and how hard it was for them, particularly in that period after the collapse of the soviet union. so this kind of expansion of the aggressiveness and, and, and kind of rampant looting of the globe, of the imperialist after the collapse of the soviet union. you know, it lasted a certain amount of time, but it couldn't last, ever, it hasn't lost it forever. and now we're seeing the rise of the independent world. and world countries are finding is the key to their independence is getting together. the only way you can stand up against the power of the u. s. it's an, it's army is, you know, it's economy. is it, it allies is to stand together and that's the attraction now of the,

of blocks like the brakes and the s c o that they're offering the ability to trade in atlanta. but they're taking away this dynamic of service and master. you know, you know, arthur, it's, it's very interesting. we had the german chancellor a couple new cycles ago saying that after the conflict is over and ukraine and russia loses, he's saying this, they will have to re assess trade with russia. but if that is such an arrogant point of view, i mean, maybe the russians don't want to deal with you anymore. ok. i mean, again, it's this kind of, this is imperial mindset is that you want to be with us. you want to be like us and you want to hold our values. but every, with every passing day, every single one of those propositions is false. arthur. well, i think, i think what that points to similar to what has been mentioned by the last 2 to speakers here as well, is that there's this universe that has come with power. and i like, for example,

with united states and it's, and it's interjection of certain values around the world in the beginning, i believe that actually did start with some, some measure of genuine attempt to do good. you know, how people have democracy help and have better lives, that sort of thing. but i think that that very quickly, especially post soviet union became a point where power corrected and power is corrupting. absolutely. and for, for europe and the united states, and i guess the western robin general, they underlined themselves at home. they've undermined themselves abroad. and yet somehow, at certain levels, they still see themselves as master of the world. and in canada there's, there's a famous hockey player who made his reputation off of stating where the pack was going be counted. and where was, or where it is. and it feels like those families are playing where the wiser is rather than where it's going be that's. that's an interesting way of looking at

thomas. you know, i think we're the, this, this whole mindset about western globalization is reflected in joseph burrell. blogs, you know, where europe is the garden and everywhere else is the jungle. i mean, if that isn't the neo colonial outlook, i don't know what is commerce? no, you, peter, peter, you're absolutely right. there is a and i like the expression that the previous author gets used. hubris, pride goes before a fall, and that has sort of what has happened to the u. s. project, which i agree initially. initially, there was some good intentions that but the united states has been captured. i mean on both sides about political aisle by this neil con view that the u. s. has to be globally hedge a monic, and that is familiar looking at it. we don't want to be to

definitive about these things whose good, whose bad they are. all sides is always a mix, but it violates the most fundamental principle of the global order made all else possible. and that goes back to the west. lillian principle from 1640 a tree of westphalia, that other countries don't interfere in the rise of others. and for all its screaming about russia and china intervening in the affairs of the united states, the u. s. is the global champion of interference and, and now it's actually pushing it to the point of belligerence and war. and this is the root cause of the problem. the u. s. agent insistent on being globally, had to monic not allowing space for other countries to develop. they are going to develop along their own particular pods, both politically and economically. we should be the best thing we can do to encourage these values of democracy and human rights is to help these countries.

not yeah, but i mean, i mean, but thomas, you know, in democracy in human rights, if i go to jesse right now, that's just a political cudgel. i don't, they don't believe in it. they don't believe in democracy in their own countries. go ahead and no, i think, i think it's more complicated. we'll get we'll get it in the 2nd half of the program. just want to feel that. i mean, i think you're upset, you write pete, to the imperialist words, have always differ greatly from their deeds. they say these, these words to make a veneer, they took about civilization, culture, human rights, democracy. they've been talking like that for 200 years. you know, many countries have suffered, nevertheless, from their domination and control. you know, over the last century, many of them put back against that, you know, but in recent decades it's been honda because as i said, the collect the ussr shifted the balance of forces in the world. but the fact is that imperialism seeks domination, not democracy, doesn't matter what it says, look at what it does, you know, and we have to, we have to recognize that,

let's not forget, that this whole notion of a rules based order was invented when the imperialist decided to launch their aggressive illegal war against yugoslavia, i just hold that thought, hold out that we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on globalization state with ah, november 22nd 2020 to outraged orthodox christians, confronted ukrainian security service offices, looking entrances and exits to keep the oldest monastery. they were looking for, alleged russian spies among the monks. we mean dealer seeming us for years in the line. former reason for the brutal crime down one church is parishioners had sung a song about ah,

it's long been reason enough to condemn any orthodox christian attack in prison and even kill them. russia, i shall finance a big grass many miles store and you in your store of a slight banging you in your store as you used to miss a senior. i used to miss dod with oh, is your media a reflection of reality? ah, in a world transformed what will make you feel safer?

isolation, whole community. are you going the right way or are you being that somewhere? direct? what is true war his way? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah ah, well never be a victory for russia. wait, we shall see what you're still waiting for. you a new modem, but you look at a me crane war is a proxy war. this is a war between russia and the united states. mezzo mon, are made. it comes to not should get done in carbon dioxide. america forces are and you're not in your engage in conflict of russian forces. the american forces are

here to defend nato ally for that bridge that nato escalates even more than discussion. military operations become a war when you put them up. so that was the show and that was a 1000 is my story. i see it that i see you at the us. thank you. possibly go to me live. so i you story. you sure you can. you stuff with almost them. let's see. we live only the still foolish that are in your sewage, nero speaker for the girl who's welcome back to cross stock, were all things are considered. i'm peter beltran, and you were discussing globalization in the okay, it's go back to arthur and in toronto, the lynch, but in the list, the linchpin of the west of vision of globalization is through financial

institutions. now that you know, you have been in the way it was gold frozen, stolen from it, rushes floor and reserves stolen from it. i mean, what kind of rules based order is that, i mean, you know, what about the rule of law? this is why is john pointed out on the 1st part of the program. other countries are getting together and saying, we don't need their institutions, we can have our own institutions, we can go around them. ok. and they use the, the west uses it financial institutions as a cudgel. well, if you can get around it, been fine. okay. and then you have not just, you know, trade, but you have free trade where everyone benefits from it. ok. the west is destroying itself in its own institutions. arthur? yeah, there's a, a great book called exit voice and loyalty that covers a lot of the personal dynamics they go on with this sort of thing. but really, if you set a set of rules and then go back on it whenever you want, it's finished that's being faced domestically. and most of the western world as

well, where there's an expectation of certain will a law and a way of things are non, but depending on your politics, depending if it's in favor or not, you get different treatment. and we're obviously seeing that in a world stage as well there's, you know, differences don't going the wrong way. they all bets are off. we can change the rules. remember, we want and you have have a stable rules based system that way. tom, tom is basically the same question to you because if the, if these institutions work against the national interests of other countries, they have every incentive to walk away from it. and they can because new institutions are being created here. and in, as i started out with the example with saudi arabia, i mean, they were in the pocket of the americans since 19 thirties. and to have this happen right now they, they want to have control of their sovereignty. and it's sending a message to other countries in the world as well, is that you don't need western institutions. the problem is, is that, as just is pointed out, the west will use its own military institutions if you defy them, go ahead thomas. oh that's, that's,

that's all true. i can't argue with that. so i agree with what you've said and what the other speakers have said. major challenges. so i don't think it's as easy as you make it out. it's a one can put in place new currencies or new mechanisms for exchange, but countries will be looking to have, how do they store value if you want to balance of payments surplus, you need to be able to park that for finance somewhere for a while and then have access to, again in future. and so that's going to be a political problem for countries like china, russia, it's after how to build confidence in their own systems and, and that's why i was saying how complicated this issue is. the west is overreaching china and russia are going to have challenges of their own to build confidence in their systems and, and, and that's something that i would like to hear more of, from russia and china. how they're going to do that, i think would be very well actually. i think they are doing it right now. we're

jotting when russia was thrown out of the swiss system. there, there was a, a burgeoning one here, one already existing in china. and it is, it is, it's expanding now, it's going to take a long time, but it's already happening. it is making it, these things are yes, they're difficult. but if you put time and effort into them resources, they will work and there's an incentive to make them work for sure. go ahead. in brazil agreed, there's absolutely incentive to make them low because what people are realizing is, there is no way to co exist on terms of mutual respect with imperialist powers. they will total subordination or, or, you know, or it's war and there isn't. and in between. so they, what people have learned to understand is there is no rules based, ordered as the law of the jungle. and the law of the jungle is the law of might is right. you know? and so that's why they say people have been making these moves to stand together economically as well as militarily, it's the only chance of retaining independence and self determination. there is no

other way to do it. you know, these moves that usa has got used to be able to dictate to everyone. it didn't stop to think about the consequences of its actions. it can't really, it's, it is impelled by its, its own, you know, a logic. but those moves towards financial warfare against russia and china over the last decade. have, as you rightly pointed out, pete have forced those countries to slowly and steadily start to reduce their vulnerabilities to us by natural control. because they knew if they didn't, they were going to be destroyed. yeah, i mean, arthur, i think future historians all marvel at how the europeans have surrendered their sovereignty. ah, read even rejected their own national interest. i mean, again, you know, you know, what trade with russia will, maybe russia doesn't want to trade with europe anymore. they're unreliable partners . they don't keep their deals. these, the, somebody blew up those pipeline. somebody did, and there is no, but nobody in the west is particularly interested in it. why would russia, china, or any other major power want to deal with people that don't keep their word?

they're just simply dishonest. when it comes to exchange arthur? well, this is the massive strategic blunder that the west has, has. non, it's just, it's, it's a little bit baffling. trying to understand why there's, there's this time over the last few years where there is an opportunity to bring russia into the fault here, strategically against some of the rising hours from a weapon perspective. and instead of that, it's like we enter the new century and new way of doing things so many other ways. but after our strategy from the cold war, and obviously there's complexity you this, but it's, it's baffling me why this is the case for both europe and united states. yeah, but a bit, thomas, i think it's idea logically driven because neoliberalism doesn't like to compromise . you know, i mean, i kind of grew up. no, i'm ok. you're okay. i'm going to do my thing. you're going to do your thing and will manage it. new liberalism doesn't work that way you must submit. that is the

problem here. yes, it's an uncompromising ideology. i do think that western europe is really the key here. it is a baffling what has happened to the central positions in, in western europe. i was think of western europe and russia as being an economic marriage made in heaven. russia has resources and needs capital. russia has some technology, western western europe has capital and technology needs resources. this is really the basis for a true economic alliance, but that's what, that's what washington didn't. why? yeah, that was just the point i was going to get to that washington has never wanted that to happen. and that's indeed why they, even though they paid lip service to gorbachev division, they were never going to allow go. but job zation to happen. now the, the question is why has western europe western european politicians failed so

comprehensively here? and by the way, in the course of failing, i think they've said western europe for a tremendous amount of economic and political trouble in the coming decade. my fear is that the center will collapse in western europe and then you will have a choice between left and the right. i would prefer that we would go in the left direction, but my fear is the wife is going to win out. and that would be a terrible step back now. for russia and china, they don't really care who wins out. they would have liked to have dealt with the sensible center once the sensible center sheets on them and turns against them aggressively then they'll deal with whoever they have to. so i think western europe is going to be the most interesting point about political and economic conflict in the coming decade. josie, isn't it interesting, you know where the west says ed projects, prosperity and security and itself now is the, the,

the poor region of the world. ok. it's going in the wrong direction, while most of the other parts of the world are going, advancing working together, as you pointed out. the thing is, the rest of the world working together is precisely what's undermining europe's western europe. the imperialist europe's ability to have their stability and prosperity right. one rested on the other. you know, why was europe complicit with the usa for so long? because it's so it's best interest as being a junior partner in this hegemonic rule of the world, than in, you know, trying to, to trade separately as it was, wasn't strong enough after world war 2 to the european powers, to be, to be a power on their own, you know, the idea of them making a partnership with russia did always, always make the usa nervous. because that's the potential ability then for power to be strong enough to question, then threat dominance of the usa. but the problem for the western europeans is they want to rush that was subservient not to partner. that, that's, that,

that's the how imperialism works. they wanted rushes resources, they wanted. it's military power. it's technological base. it's agriculture. but they wanted to just take it, they didn't want to do to join and share the spoils, share the lute. there's too many russians dishes, you know, to, to cheryl that out with a fundamentally, i think, you know, that's where they've been, they've been sort of led by the usa, by the nose, you know, into the situation. but it's all actually driven by the fact that the capitalist economy in the world is in crisis. this is desperate drive to, to sure up he get money to find profits at the expense of other people. and europe right now is suffering a boomerang effect from the humorist, with which it went into the economic war against russia. they thought they would bring russia to its knees in a few weeks. they failed and, and arthur, as a result, the sang, the sanctions that have come out of western capital in, at the end of sanctioned their own people. okay. i live here in moscow. we don't

feel the sanctions, the way western medium claims. it's not true. it's simply not true difficulties. yes, but that's too difficult. these great challenges and new solutions and i, and that's what i want. i want, i want russia to be cut off from the west con boy lee. okay. because that's where the problems of the world are. arthur, there's a, you also address what was said about imperialism there. i think more the point, the problem for the west right now is we had the slice sank, west ideological possession in all our institutions. anyone who speaks our stance against that possession is called yet meaning that we have a very monolithic way of looking at things. and it's not a very good one. once prosperity came very much from the ability to open up markets to have or amounts of freedom to stick with a certain pool of law as we discussed earlier. and in the being of the side,

the ology. now we are just pulling all of that, produce some sort of utopia. now every time i've seen that sort of utopian vision or read about that sort of token vision in the past, it's never ended well. and we can see all ready for the west. it's going badly, very bad. well, i mean, arthur isn't, it really isn't really curious. it's the west. it's the most ideal logical part of the world. the rest of the world is figured out that pragmatism is the best way forward, but not the west and, and that's why their whole ideology is short circuiting against them and makes them very dangerous for the rest of us. i'm sorry everybody. that's all the time we have . i want to thank my guests and watched in ritual and in toronto, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time. remember, crossed the

me ah, the in 1898 point to rico became a us colony but still retain its own cultural identity. becomes favor vendor penetrate the song into prison. today, close to half its population with rico have new representation in congress and con. vote in the u. s. presidential elections like okay, you wanna make you american citizens, which you didn't ask for. even if we were office citizenship with the head and we would prefer around. one figure was in his twenties, he chose to fight for his homelands. independence. we felt that we could generate more of a spirit of resistance rather than hope submissive accept reality that we felt was like shockingly unfair. my sorry,

that i decided to fight for my country. no one could have done things differently. yes, absolutely. do i now think that violence is not the means to achieve anything with a number of russian soldiers killed in a ukrainian high march rocket attack in the city of muggy, of god, near don. yes, bry, this 289, the russian defense ministry says mobile phone signal gave away their locations the enemy for a new level of gas exports, the china, russian energy, giant gas prom hale's record volumes. in the 1st days of the new year, i made plans to build more pipelines, heading for kena cost. so it felt the french ambassador as an anti colonial sentimental strengthens on the african con.