them both of these guys are now joined by georgia tree kotik, or a clinical psychologist from helping to get the money and also all lot, goddesses, a kaleidoscope on foreign georgia is great to talk to you. thank you very much for the time and congratulations on this amazing book. thank you very much. thank you. now, as i said, you are joining us for that here in russia. it is a subject of many lurid and politically incorrect jokes about the hot finish, man coupled with the data. you're citing your book that 9 out of 10 finish man up consumers of 4. and i wonder if there's something in the health area that not only spark your interest, but also gave you the sort of design courage to explore a subject like that. no, i don't think you've seen my even knew him and i am from the i don't need to be here to have seen key on the 13 years ago. actually the interesting such as don't be any writing something stock long ago. and they started reading many books about

form that i could find. and then i came to the conclusion that leasing the union and there was nothing written about it. and the general in the psychoanalytic environment is always addressed. you broke the logical sides and i thought it was missing, kind of the exploration of the, of for itself. and what about the parent guys? like you said. so this started long before my coming to see him. and by the way, yes, in the book i mention this data about consumers. i quoted this very interesting research because it was a very long research. you started 1970 and they were wiring many dimensions. are trying to be off to the present time. i know that other researches and different

countries in the west, but they said basically there's one results. so it's not the only thing the folks are actually everywhere in the western countries. there is this kind of a result like 9 men on 10 and maybe nowadays 767 women over 10. you go on consumers. so i don't think it is particularly hawks plays disrespected. well, in just the object of many jokes about the temperament of the finnish people here in russia. in your book, you show very elegantly how for one from an obscure what the latest fascination to a mass phenomena in i think 50 years for starting with the lives ation in denmark and them in the united states in the 1970s. and i was surprised to learn that the collapse of the soviet union being the country where i was born and also needed a major contribution to the industries in what way form developed

for many or let's say for a 100 years, probably in a very nice or style for just the accessible by few people in the taking the western countries like you mentioned, it's only by the end of the sixties and the beginning of the seventy's born production and distribution was allowed just by goals in some countries starting with denmark in the us then from the many other countries, so my book is about mass form, so it's dedicated mostly to the last few years and especially dedicated to boarding tenants for men, the sexual men. it is important to say the phenomenon to say why nowadays. so i tried to focus on what is still the mainstream for an hour and during the 7 days, and the for me was

a kind of side the industry to film industry. and actually there were unions in many countries and movies they were trying to structure to their work as any other work. but when, so if you didn't call out there was a massive amount. so most of all girls and women, basically we need to do anything in order to earn some money, which of course, into the western world. so to say, and these change completely the landscape for industry because it went towards a more can anybody with a camera would feel no use something and then the internet would be that would be most of during the ninety's. so basically, these 2 factors together created a new landscape where all the unions and also the rules of the previous to see were

swept away by using, you know, so yes, the coming from especially rain bell rose on the and russia actress. so to say change the landscape, correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i heard you say in other engineers, it's not just about the the nature of oregon, how actress is paid and how they are protected. but also about the style should have been the aim of the product itself because i heard you say before the back of the seventy's and the eighty's was much more about the neutral pleasure. but damage shifted to formal violence and dominating kind of genre. do you attribute that to a cultural influx of women from before me or somebody union or is it just the nature of time itself or the nature of male sexuality that has changed the word this is a very interesting question. well,

i would say that the availability of women willing to do anything went well together with the, with the increasing you're going to want the extreme mother was already present in the seventy's and made his body was more regulated. and especially in the seventy's, since the previous decade, the $64.00 in the west would be changes social changes. there was 2 movements and movements. so in that moment the fact that was representing female sexuality as a joy, fool, and disconnected from procreation. as a pleasure for women, it was a new st. adamant in that moment. so it was already extreme doing the seventy's name. i mean we can find it extreme back to them too. but

definitely, the fear was much different from the current form, which has been much about using a woman for me. and pleasure. i wouldn't dare to say that there was a cultural contribution from the side of the women. i think patriarchy was already there. and the idea that actually we could exploit all these we've been willing to do anything just was market advantage. so now one of the essential ideas in your book is that technological inventions, in your demonstrate how point is a logical invention. i'm not natural to, they don't just satisfy me, but they form and shape them some times, but pretty malicious, insidious motives. i wonder how do you yourself try to maintain it's not an autonomy you've done some degree of non dependency on on those technological

forms and anything out there. why is interest in question? in a way human beings have always been technology goes on the very 1st time when somebody created the container to bring the water from the river to the cavern, probably already baffles or technology coming. you mention something out of the nature of the last 100 years saw dramatic change in our landscape to the point that technology according to the us that they bought a lot in the book became the subject of history and actually premium we as human beings are on the co, historical to technology. so definitely will even if acknowledging a word that is just one of the manual technology. but all of this objects that surround us. and that is not only a tool in our hands and depends on how we use even bad. this is, are kind of nice to anders. he's claims that actually we should be worried

about how to use us, which is the reverse perspective, where technology actually can change deeply our in our emotions. and the way we are in the works. it's just the fact that technology is the current word. so i don't think that we can, we can imagine a word without it. it's a very, very difficult processed balance. our relationship with technology within that their knowledge or we're i think that the starting point is to question seriously our technology, the landscape. and i, i mean, i try to do is even though the topic is much wider than for your masters under the german industrial for lots of our who in many ways was ahead of his time foretelling the dangers of being blamed by technology. so i saw that his 2nd

book of athletes was titled the app lessons, man. i know that you don't like judging or moralizing in any way, but do you think by and large, 40 years after the publication of this book we have come to, you don't be in for kind of being proven that people, not all of them, but by and large losing touch, not only with the free period in them or but also the bodies because when you look at both these fear this and disembodied in the same time as a trans union of all without a union. yes. yes. you're right. yeah. i personally, i think the word the side by now present i really wonder how he would have preceded the current needs and words for example

on because many sections were based on radio and g greater amazing. he was 14, are really much more talking about the current word. although he died. i think he, agents. so before the internet. yeah, i do believe that the soap in word is, is present in this moment. i know that there are many other seems there's that much more positive about ecology and they just say the normal development over human consciousness are going towards that to i am closer to this worries. so to say, and i am worried that the more well i, interestingly that despite human beings so much ahead of his time,

he is not widely published in english. you know that, that is, you know, what we usually think of the western world as they, and the driver of both the 3rd and the 4th industrial revolution. and yet, that very few translations of his work that mostly on an amateur in nature. i wonder if that is just an unfortunate happenstance to you or the thing it says that are a form of deliver at the intellectual ostracizing. yeah, well as an analyst, it's hard enough to see that there's a need in this regression on this work industry to this are a finally published in english. i found out this year there is a big word. i think it's published in america around this war works general. it's some 500 pages book. so they have now finally translated to something and spoken

to him. it's interesting because his 1st born was published yandell the 2nd world war 48. i think the 2nd one, the eighty's or 99, a sam, i could find a translation and it was already existing since the 6 is. but in the true word. so to say it's funny, last year maybe august, so i see it as a little bit of a regression because it was a very rich voice, especially for him because i did. and he was also contemporary of young and i think union ideas are also seeing a bit of a revival. so maybe it's a synchronistic. it went in a way that there were coming back to prominence anyway, you're do we have to take a very short break, right? now, we'll be back in just a few moments they can ah,

the joggers archipelago, homer, the jo, san diego garcia, the largest island in the archipelago is now the location of a very large u. s. military base. you get given med, div our i to the us government to make a military base and just deported all of the juggle, send people from their country, so big caught return back on the island. no, but we are fighting. that's why i'm fight. we'll fighting for the right. so i, we do not consider that the right to self determination actually applies to the trickle. since i don't the question, no self determination of the legal advice we've received is actually the trickle. since we're not at all, not a people for me,

it's time to move on and see what we can do. a full the child said community to return back home. there is no support from the united nation. i commission, i forget united michelle, don't care about chug restaurant people a welcome back to will support a clinical psychologist from finland and also law got assist a kaleidoscope on foreign georgia before the briefly touched on this very central idea in your book as well as in the work of good there on there's that. now logical inventions are not natural tools. they not only satisfy our needs but also shape

and foster them. and sometimes they even create our needs. and you provide a very interesting example of coca cola as something that for many people essentially managed to hijack that basic need for 30 stand by claiming to satisfy or they'd actually increase it. and i think that's a very common thing within the big industry as well. as within the big pharma industry because they're very, a lot of very obnoxious teenage is there. if you look at the most prevalent disease is metabolic diseases, right now be diabetes dementia, a, b, c. many of them would be trace to people are being hooked on certain foods or on certain habits. and i think one is a perhaps recreating of the same dynamic and certain populations. it could be very helpful to some of very imaginative to some but in many people, it also creates a dixon and i understand it's

a very complex question i have is that you don't like passing judgments. but where do you think we should start in terms of both assigning responsibility? because you know how budgets are something that we are all concerned about? it is a public good and also helping people develop a helpful and with a mutually respectful relationship with technology and new invention. and the industries that produced down. yes, your questions are always very interesting for big. they will require a lot of time to, to reflect on the questions. well, i would say that the taking the example foreigner and the name of my book was to show different sides of it, which is something that i didn't find many books. i called the book colliders for dia, that every chapter should have been

a color and all to call us together. they were for me to come to school so that the reader concern the book. so do say, and see maybe some configurations or others. i mean, when it is a complex form is having the ability to see many colors and, and embrace this complexity is the 1st step we have to do before doing what you are asking. the same about technology technologies are very complex. why is lots of reflections and so to say deepening here many aspects before we, we can decide something about what can we do in order not to be just addicted. so thought it was me see many books or was this

complexity. they were only focusing on some aspects, for example, addiction or logical perversion. born is a very complex object that actually is just a good symbol, many other phenomena of our carrying to work. so what you asked the requires 1st of all to know much better and are so much deeper level, a job. and then we can try to understand what can we do about it. well, we can invite our years to get your book and reflect on it, but i can tell you on a personal perspective, that's one of the very simple but for some reason, during typo ideas for me was that mean not just leave it in our bodies, but we are the body and the desiring bodies demonstrates it in a, in a very interesting way. and there is actually, i think,

a huge differences in perceiving yourself as. ringback living in the body and actually imagining yourself that same body. can you, can you speak about that a little bit? yes, this is, this is an important point because point for example and experience technology. so i'll get to a screen basically where these are videos or features, how that knology invites kind of splits with the bobby. because we look at some checks and performance. and the only senses that we are using in that moment are basically sides and hearing. because there is but actually sex as a real experience as an important experience. so it would be much more involving the others just like a smell. and most of all very interesting how, like you said before, those are kind of mutation of opposite or is

a sexual thing. but actually it doesn't have anything to do with the sexual, embody experience because we're just sitting in front of a screen. there's nothing a physical there, there are some physical things i'm in my only physical people not just watch they, i think use that imagination sometimes there have. ringback to, i mean, there is not an embodied experience with the people or shouts, but it's not the same thing as a real sexual kid can actually ask you about them. because i think this is a fascinating question and sexuality is one of the sort of 5 basic things that's calling and identified. and i think more than others, it requires the presence of the other, you know, unions like to talk about the the benefits of living and

imagination. but i perhaps a downside to that. as a clinical psychologist, what are some of the dangers of living out too much of your sexuality in this imaginary re out? yes. oh yeah, this is also a very important topic to, i believe that the union. but all of the secretary work, let's say it's very much leaning on the verbal side, and we can to not to give too much attention to the body. but there are movements so to say in the words that are trying to improve the body level much more. and there are very interesting crossovers between, for example, you theory and authentic movement or dance therapy and other things, the more the body. so yeah, there is always to disconnect from the girl and body experience. there is the need

to keep pull out of it together like the imagination, but also the body level. so important to technology object just straight from the body experience in a way. and this is one example, i mean this is happening your lot with that we can disconnect from the body. we can disconnect from the emotions. we can this one that even from ethics because we just watch a video with our responsibility, what's going on and that maybe some violence video or something at the speaker that we wouldn't, we would never do reality. still we are enjoying something which is violent. so there's a lot of questions that are poor by these things, and definitely try to reconnect to body and mind that much more. also, in theory, there's a huge for that and the wrong because if i look at the data,

despite these very wide availability of the people around the developed world, a having less tax, they're having it later in life. it's also less creative, not only because of their birth control, but also because of b precipitously falling prone cones. in many of the man, if you step outside the point for a while, what do you think is happening with human sexuality in general? within the larger view of technology and the 4th industrial revolution that we're about to enter. yeah, well on one hand, there are many signs of crisis like you were mentioning only on reading so many interesting books that are address and try to being new ways and very interesting ways. i her mind the book a speech, the authors, the authors. but i am reading a lot of books about sexuality and couple relationship and already i'm already and

many you say development. so in sex. so like you said in the beginning there are always some opposite phenomena happening at the same time. there is a crisis of the previous way, maybe sexuality, the patriot prizes, investing also the way 6, right? it has always be tended, and hopefully, you know, new elements that are starting to circulate. he will change the landscape in the future. so i hope that we will have all better sex and better relationship with them. yeah. well, and have a better relationship with reality, which i think is the goal of any psychological school, but especially in psychology, seen as one of the allow reality to really real gone like magic to mere mortals. since you have the word, goddesses in the title,

what do they have to do with base activity asked for? and yeah, i know we have a very short time left to so i just try to make a huge about maybe, maybe the listen. i will be curious to see in the, in a more extensive way. so i had the idea that say the hypotheses that a factor of fascination for form should be found also outside the usual logical explanations is definitely fascinating for the majority of men and women around the world, including one other genders. and i believe that's a reducing everything to a g, b 2 narrowing. so my hypothesis is that actually corner corner, it's possible to find some sheens to walk in on the ear as was connected to the sake of a big talk. you know, the year of the say there was a place,

a place beyond the bad a place or place of the got to place of the human being. so in a very strange way, or somehow something has to do with the under certain shake it. and i explain it in the book, but it's really a long topic now. and so the reason i say that the form that there is some hint to the secret that actually is fascinating because believe that the soccer eyes were a statement. that is, dad can say that the secret has disappear them as a you know, any union of what they have replied to you. that what kind of a, whether he's called the not the, the guys are still present it. it's

a matter of seeing and perceiving them and having a right relationship with them to, to have to leave it there. i wish i could have more time to discuss fascinating book, and i invite our readers to, to get it that you have an advantage over reference. i think it's still available around the world on amazon. so to take a chance on that. thank you very much. with this possibility to talk and thank you . what you hope to hear again next week, all the part ah with mm ah

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