to be through that said prom within and prevalence so that they can come back to turkey and they can be charged with judicial for them. this is where to get anything. it only took you saying this. i mean, if anyone in nato actually listening to what i'm saying, it almost seems like turkey is in a way being ignored here. well, not to keep saying that, of course, not only to say that because you know, case actually is that is that personal communication and it is accepted. so it is accepted by you and it is accepted by the other countries of the world. so why do paul actually name a nato ally and yes to tia has legitimate concerns and it should be fulfill your wishes to be fulfilled in order to make his agreement. but

jackie also needs concrete. that which is nato as an ally in the product page. and there is a problem with that because it takes a while for millions and to to feel that especially in sweden there are so many legit tourist name that has caused who attends in 2015 in turkey and to give back thing them to be returned to the rookie so that the judicial system for them could start because thousands of people, hundreds of people had died because of beef people at 10 to overdraw and the government. this was the quick and those people clued to sweden and other different countries. but the ones within are quite important people in the name for jury and to k, right. we expect them to be returned to us because as i said before, nato is they defend the lie, is

a security ally when you do defense and security alliance and sorry for jumping in . but i mean, you know, some people refer to it as the black sheep of nato, and i've got such a little time here. you've got to keep doing a reproachful with syria. you've got to keep it company, very buddy, buddy with russia these days and also attractive chinese investments as well. at the end of the day, very, very quickly. it's turkey, a still in good speed with nato family members. well, you said it is actually in the middle of everything. so to wrap it up really quickly, i should play that with the relationship with russia, with relationship with china, with a you say making sense and theory and being in a lot like a tricky has a 10 in the middle as a peacemaker. is that neil maker and yes, the other side, the other party, it's like a major. different bodies may have the things that there again. but because as 2 or

3 kids in the middle, they do not have turkey to 10 on the things because they want anyone else want the country to fight with them. but yeah, has made sure that they're in the middle of the things and they may look at the yeah, the brother dancing a bit of a delicate dance on the political chessboard these days. it is time bull base of foreign news editor lee for such your blue. thank you so much for joining us here on our team. we appreciate that. thank you. and thanks for joining us. we're back soon with. wal, ah ah hello in welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle piece in ukraine. seems essentially impossible. and there's

a reason for this. nato wants russia to be completely defeated. russia in turn, demands new pan, european security structures, protecting its interest. as long as nato exist, there'll be no peace or security for any one. ah, cross sucking ukraine, i'm joined by my guess fed escobar in paris. he's an independent geopolitical analyst and author specializing in eurasia and brussels. we have lucrative a. he is an independent journalist and in kingston we cross who gerald 70. he is founder and director of trends research institute and publisher of the weekly trends journal magazine or a gentleman crosstalk roles. in fact, that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate pepe, let me go to you 1st here. there's a huge, a, some, a symmetrical process in play here. the europeans, the west collective wants to see russia completely defeated. russia want security guarantees. i have a solution to it. and it's

a simple one. why don't work towards peace, and that's something that the west will never do. pepe, of course not. and they keep saying that every day, why school defining stolt, embarrassed by american generals via and tony will terrace the story, portuguese that i had of the you. when i read she in london every day, we have a call to our sound bite from one of these, of course, not to mention the 28000 or 28000000 function errors in russell's thing is that kind of the same thing. planned a continuous on schedule plan a is forever war. land a is afghanistan on steroids, at least another 20 years. there's no plan be so far. russia they can play it. ok. we can finish this thing in 20 minutes, which they can't or ok. all right, let's keep going. little by little, inflicting

a very refined form of chinese torture on natal as a whole. and on the west leadership as well. and let's say one day you're going to cry, uncle, well, i agree with the general. let me go to you in kingston here. this a symmetrical approach here because this explains how russia has proceeded in ukraine because it wants security guarantees. it's not going to take land that it can't determine its destiny. ok, they're not going to go in and leave. russia is not going to do this in 5 years in another 10 years. this is why this is a defining event in this century. here, there has to be security guarantees for all or there will be security guarantees. for none, go ahead. you know, this is the american way. as i was saying once, upon a time there was a president to united states by the name of dwight d eisenhower. 5 star general supreme command or the allied forces. and to charm

president is say a well, a jess, january 17th, 1961. he was the american people that the military industrial complex is robbing the nation of the jesus sciences to sway the labors and the future, the children. and that sort, americans become, i just turned 76 years. all world war 2 is in ancient history. look at all the was america's bit in since then. it like the korean. oh no. i like the vietnam war . a have out the 1st iraq when i like the 2nd iraq war, a lot better. you know, the afghan war was terrific. it only lasted 20 years. oh, what about what's going on in somalia? how about the nobel peace prize winner brock o'bonham? i want that guy gadhafi out of there. i want that guy assad added in living in, in, in syria, gadhafi and livia. the united states just passed

a defense budget of $858000000000.00. so a $105000000000.00 of our money. now is going to ukraine, 63 percent of americans living paycheck to paycheck. it's the american way. and it's not stopping this is my magazine. from spring 2014, that happy face on their washington is driving the world to fight the final war worlds. a gemini is not a right america has earned article written by dr. paul craig roberts, former assistant treasury secretary of the ronald reagan. and he talks about russia, conclude wash, included, that russia needed to be confronted with or distracted by problems that would leave

the russian government less confident or able to counter washington's aggression elsewhere. ukraine presented to perfect opportunity for washington. okay, geral, jaron, gerald on that on that note, i agree with you. okay, let me, let me go to look here, get everybody in the mix here. a look at me because the nato will not discuss russia. security guarantees as reason why we're in this mess and the 1st place, okay? and as long as they continue to do that, russia will do well, unilaterally make its own decisions. if it doesn't happen to interlocutor, then it will make its decisions on its own and what it will not care what the west says whatsoever. because the west really can't do anything about it. and that's what we've learned. luke and brussels go ahead. while the responsibility of the major is over, well, of course in the conflict since day one and done of course we follow america and we should, you should dissociate from america on this america. it once war rush, we don't, we should we europeans?

oh, so the victims half is concrete on. so we need to find a p strategy and we should look, for example, in turkey. we should look at hungary, countries where the leaders are responsible. people say, yes, we must have something on medical from on the social from dish, but not send arms and be part of that conflict with your stalls and beck and mental . we should not do that. well, i, you mentioned a lower octane thinker sultan burg. let me go back to peppy here. well, that's exactly what he is. okay. now, has had one journalist ever asked him a hard question. ever, never, it's never happened. okay, and that's, that's by design. peppy notes. the other birds as a victory for rushes or to feed for the west. yeah. yeah. that's what i think i agree with them on. okay. but of course, no, no, it's not part of the conflict. okay, i mean, it's absurd. what this man says here, but i agree with them and i was actually, it will be the end of nato. the way that if they continue the down the path,

they are pepe. go ahead. well, of course, with nobody knows what the general or the russian general staff is. splaining mid term and long term. nobody acquired from a putting partnership in may be jurassic woven showing. good. did they have a menu which is so juicy, in terms of inflicting geopolitical and g, waco, nomic pain, different levels of the dial own europe and only u. s. which is, you know, you have to laugh about it and the bill to dismantle. ah, they tried when you remember what they were try when year ago diplomacy? you remember indivisibility of security, right? those letters sent to the pentagon and to brussels. you all remember the non response response. you all remember what happened next, which was the preparation for a blitzkrieg against non boss. so we know everything that happened up to the

beginning of the s m. o. and we also know how russia is, has been to weaken the approach stores the s m o, which is now for all practical purposes, the electrification campaign on top of dina's, if occasion and demilitarization it's working. and on top of it, they get absolute chaos and panic. all across the u. this is something that you see from outside the u. i just came back from brazil, which is in a very sorry state after the boss on our project. and even from brazil, looking at your bill, seeing as birds is not that bad. i me, you bring up a good point. if i go to gerald on this one here, i mean a, again, after 10 months of the same thing, they say continue to double down on it without any kind of what they claim that ukraine is winning, which is absurd. i mean, this propaganda in the west is absurd. it's ukraine is not winning. pepe is absolutely right. i would even posit that ukraine will turn into

a failed state before there is a military decision on the battlefield. gerald, what are your thoughts on that? well, we said had, from the beginning that ukraine is not going to defeat russia. i have a famous chart of napoleon march to moscow. ready in 1812 we are in lees, holland with 420000 troops to attack moscow and comes back with 10000. and then it was a thing called a world war. 2 operation. barbarossa with a germans killed some 25000000 russians and who were the 1st to defeat the germans, the russians. and you mentioned about propaganda and that's all it is. and that's all it ever is. and all the media does is keep selling it. i just found this a couple of days ago. it's from 1960. this is the headline. so he had threatens rocket set spy basins. so now we really hate those soviet right

. you read the article member, this is may 10th 1960 premier. nikita khrushchev warned monday that soviet rockets was, shoot down any spy plates. that vento is soviet soil and his government will take appropriate measures. american plays were flying over soviet territory and they put a headline in like this. so if soviet plays were flying over american territory, it would just be fine. everybody would love it. it's the warmly shane period. paragraphs. it's been going on and it's not only destroying the world destroy this country as well. and his coolness going on and i mean, i make and is non stop again. look in here before we go to the break it up, but, but look, what is the veneer of this propaganda rob program, a failing. i mean, now we have protests all through europe here. i mean, what in the world you're the european union is willing to die on the hill called

ukraine. that's insane. 40 seconds before we go to the break. jake isn't saying i would agree with you when you say that you crime could become a face state. it is a face the muppet show since the end of the a bunch of the ukraine politics. so now she's kalonski was since 2012 with properties in london with accounts in the kind of be. and then obviously, you know what you see in all the places corruption, brady, while he had people like to fight, gosh, so it is a real problem to see that the propaganda is really solid for all the media that we have here in western europe. it is the voice of here, and that's why and that's why we're pariahs. ok. but not as, you know, rumble. we're on rumble. when a few other platforms we'll get our word out. the hell with you to my opinion. i

gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on you're going to stay with ah ah, ah ah, welcome back to cross top where all things are considered on peter bell to remind you were discussing ukraine. ah,

ah, okay, go back to pepe in paris yet you are a prolific writer and i really appreciate it. my wife, i don't think i ever really miss a. com. a couple days ago you wrote something very long article, very good. but this one sentence really stuck out to me. i'm gonna read it everybody here. a quick win for russia would be a loss because nato would still exist. no, russia has to pace this, so it sucks nato into the grinder, your spot on, right, peppy. why don't you explain what you mean there? ok without using our collective crystal. busy balls, maybe this is scenario number one, the for the russian general staff because they see that seen only 10 months is being working miracles. so why not? 20232024. and now they have,

in direct confirmation from all sources that the us wants to prolong this thing, at least until 2025. don't forget dest contract that rates on past with the american government, to supply them with the state of the art, anti missile defense. and guess when they're going to delivered up november 2025. so we have, for sure. let me, i'd pepe. i mean, that big, that big 2 things. i mean, will ukraine still exist? that's up in the air? probably not. probably not, but i'm agreeing with you. and let me go to gerald because i think it's really important here because western media likes to frame this as a russia ukraine conflict. it's not that it's russia, it's a west the western world, nato world against russia, and the russians accepted the challenge. and what i think is, is, is in the cards right here. alright? they want to use ukraine is a cudgel against russia. well,

russia will use ukraine to destroy nato, and i think that is in the cards. that's one of the reasons why the russians are taking their time to watch nato exhausted. so, and watch the european union humiliate itself into bankruptcy. go ahead, gerald. yes. in no, in the sense that america is going to keep the war going. a pet they mention raytheon, where you did, i mean, who is the defense contractor of the united states? i the, excuse me, the defense secretary was what was his last job sitting on the board of directors, raytheon. so they're going to keep this war going as much as they can. again, it's the military industrial complex, and i want to make this 100 percent clear. america is at war with russia. yes. it's not a proxy war. and these are the words from lloyd austin, the defense secretary, who said he told nbc,

report that the yeah, the reason for us troops in ukraine was they need quote, experts in the country to help ukraine use critical weapons systems. so america is in ukraine, with u. s. troops showing them how to use critical weapons. they are using the critical weapons. if this is not stopped, world war 3 has already begun. and it's going to annihilate the world in nuclear war. what people don't understand is that you have mentally ill people that are in control, that have a great soul of the demonic socratic spirit. because they, there is not one word you were talking about protests in europe. zip not and

nothing in america. peace is not allowed to be spoken to her, and we just heard the national security advisor this jake sullivan said. there's no time right now to talk the piece yet because because victory is not within their grasp. luke, just the opposite. a victory is staring them in the face. okay. and, and these missile systems, the patriots systems. you know, everybody, let's be honest, here the u. s. military has been fighting sheepherders around the world in this century. ok. it's never even even close come to appear power and this is exactly what we're seeing right now. we're seeing all these expensive weapons that don't work there. it's a complaint. griffith. ok, and look, i don't care how many american advisors go to ukraine. they should be a be aware because the russians have i in the skies. they can see exactly where they are. luc well, as you say,

and the young weak are all made to feel like all the europeans. well really we don't have a mission to the literally, i mean frost crenshaw, i mission for week over you, or if there were while. so how can we deliver this? is it 80 counts to the ukranian army or and login list, i'm sorry list or from what i understand. at the beginning of the conflict, there were $200.00 german tanks and only 10 of them worked. yes. oh yes. fast who responded lane was not ahead of the european commission. you know, she was minister of defense for 8 years and the buddhist via the german army is in texas because of her. so that's a good use of how, you know, in the german speak about it. was a smile, so i would doubt that i look and maybe we look i, i can guarantee you, they spend more money at nato to phase than they do on german tax. ok. i can

guarantee you that. ok, pepe, you know, the, the thing, the, what you and i have been thinking about a, actually in unison over the last few months. i mean, not having direct contact all the time, but we're very much moving in the same direction here. and, and, you know, it's very interesting, rushes is facing the entire onslaught of the west and the world is watching and the world is amazed that russia is taken on the collective west. and it's certainly not losing. i would even say it is winning. if you look at the it, what winning means in the long term thoughts peppy, absolutely. 87808889 percent of the global south as a whole. and some patches in the global north as well. they have not condemned russia. they have not sanction russia and most of them understand russia's motives and that that's the merits of course goals to absolutely focus. ready russia, diplomacy, you know, run by essentially by love it all, but the,

all the deputy prior foreign ministers, absolutely brilliant as well. and of course, the hard node which bricks, which soon is going to be bricks plus sion, guy, corporation, organization. the strategic partnership between the russian and the chinese and these interlocking partnerships between russia, china, india, and iran. what i termed a few weeks ago, the quad that really matters. these are the quad or course origin that's really matter. so each terms of soft power globally, russia has got it because they managed to explain their position. this is the thing is they could, they can not, in fact, finish this war in 20 minutes, because this would be a, a remixed of american shock in all. yeah, and that's not what russia wants. russia wants the global size, the global south, on their side. so it has to be a little by little this a form of chinese starch. torture, which is strategic ambiguity,

in the words of the russian general staff and the global south bought it. they are on board because they understand that russia now is that the vanguard of this fight against when? well, and if you win in pepe and pepe, you know, the global south, they remember the european colonial experience yet. it's not a joke. the russians weren't there, but the europeans were. ok, gerald, this war is not going to end in diplomacy. it's not going to end in negotiations because from the russian perspective there's no one to trust in the west angler miracles admission. recently, petro put a shanker, the former ukrainian president. they lied their liars, so there's going to be no negotiated end to this. it will be a unilaterally decided by russia because there's no one to trust in the west. geral . yes. so what you said about merkle and in for a shank of that, they admitted that the minsk agreement was a total fraud just to get ukraine built up stronger so they could fight against the

russians. here i'm a trend forecaster, we have a system called global nomics, which walking right now about, you know, war. so we look at many different fields and one of them, of course, is to look at is what's going on with the global economy. so of course, with the sanctions they put on russia, you know, of energy prices going up. there's a lot of hardship in, in europe. that's why you see the demonstrations. what am i saying is when all else fails, they take you to war. we are facing age geo, political, socio economic crisis, the likes of which we've never seen before. that had been brought about by all the cheap buddy they pumped into the system. yet when they forth a cove, it was. so let's go back to a thing called a great depression and what. ready follow were award to what followed the dot com bust. oh, you mean the war on terror? when i'm telling what i'm saying is that when the economy crashes, they get the people's mind off it with war and they are going to do the same thing

. now, american people, when i was a kid, dad is hiding under a desk because the russians were going to drop an atom bomb. i remember doing the same same. and i remember i remember. so what i'm saying is you're going a rushing, nestle just landed in poland and killed 2 people done to that odd day. oh hi steve night. how do you see how quick it happens? how they believe that of 2 people were killed. 377000 over there in yemen. now we don't care that yemen what. but anyway, what i'm saying, she, everyone is that when all else fails, they take you to war. the global economy is failing and they will get to people's minds austin, misery with war. okay, let me when we have one minute left, look in your crystal ball here. i won't hold it to you,

but we're coming to the end of this year by the end of next year. how many governments do you think in the european union will fall? i won't hold her to it. betting possibly several on the and i saw you fall in government a so so a majority got crumbling the opinions within the european union debt change at all . we have phone issues at the european parliament with corruption, bike todd and things. and we see that these people at the european parliament have great ideas about ethics and morality. they're all so it's going to get worse in europe and of the total. so is that ice, you depression in future? certainly with america in time is sinning, making a lot of money with the european stupidity, sang us their ellen, g, r, destroying the european economy and all making that the euro will never be

a cause you preserve any more. i have, it all gets down to will end on this. it all gets down to being ideologically obsessed and greedy. okay. oh and they're not and hubris, aetna, absolutely taking no responsibility for their actions. that's where we end this year gentlemen. as all the time, i want to thank my guests in paris, brussels and in kingston. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. remember ross not ah ah. when i was so think wrong, i just don't hold me. you world yet to see how this thing becomes the advocate. an engagement equals the trail. when so

many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah ah, without headlines manase international. i made the ongoing protests in brazil. meta is now censoring old posts with an antique president, new little silver slot in the program. we take a deeper look at why some protests to supported on from on, not by various professional western pop. these 3, several houses were destroyed by the multiple launch rockets systems grad. this fragment of a show can not be extracted at the moment. he views the aftermath of ukraine.