stepan, ben, data and nazi collaborator is celebrated in ukraine, is a national hero. however, the historical record is clear, been data and his associates are alleged to have committed genocide against poles and jews. during the 2nd world war, the west is largely silent about this. the cross sucking crane i'm joined by my guest, erin, good in philadelphia. he's a political scientist historian and author of american exception empire in the deep state. and in london, we cross the adrenal consulting. he is the founder of ha, consulting, and a born affairs analyst, or a gentleman cross groves and a fact that means he can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate, let's go to london 1st early on one a on january 1st of this year. the been data was his birthday was commemorated a 114 years ago officially commemorated in the national power in parliament,

parliament, and, and other official oregon's. and this is an atrocity. i mean, this is really what this regime is all about, but you'd never, are hardly ever hear about it in western media. i will point out that the, the polish government strongly objected as they usually do, but it doesn't seem to have any impact. so this is a, is this the kind of regime that the west is protecting? it's going to london burst. yes, i mean, quite recently the, the, the chief of the ukranian, all forces has been supported on the social media by posting a picture or a sophie ok. so next to the on the portrait of the 2nd. but there are you right, the set up with a note saying that the ukranian, the final and ultimate victory of ukrainian nationalism will be when the russian empire will cease to exist. so in my opinion, i think the west,

it's using the very strong and prevailing naturalist movements and sentiment within the old ukranian society in order to fight russia from the fall. and this is the same script we've seen in i've gone on when, during the soviet era big new jersey was encouraging, which i've been to 5 in the name of god against the, against the soviets. and i think the same template is being used here in ukraine where the lobbies are trying to, i mean, the west is trying to somehow re label as a fall right movement, which is not far right. but it's clearly supporting not the ideology

to fight russia until the last ukrainian will die. so i think the answer to your question is, yeah, well, let me go to erin here because this is very curious here because the west at least officially its official narrative, is that it's a be eminently against f know nationalism. but we have there supporting a regime in camp that is all about f know nationalism ok as i rail is already pointed out. i mean, this is a, a tool in there, russo phobic arsenal really has nothing to about to do about ukraine has nothing to do about the fate of the ukrainian people. but it has everything to do about russia and they're willing to tolerate alter nationalist, ethnic nationalist, even passion, stick rhetoric to, to achieve that end aaron. right, and i think that these hardcore nazi elements represent a minority of that western ukrainian population. but it really only takes a,

you know, a minority to be a pretty dangerous element in this society. and from the point of view of not just the russians, but the ethnic russians who have been part of ukraine. these are the worst elements in the, in the country that they live in. and it's, they're, they're very, it's a version of naziism that traces back to the nazis. and except that it's even more kind of focused on, on russians, armina it's, it's, which is a, for the people that are in, you know, if you look at that electoral mat from 2010 and you see the places that, that did not that were for the, you know, the neutral candidate, it was, you know, around odessa and the don't bass, you see that this is a really divided country and the, the, the more hardcore elements in the west are have because you have an almost genocide or, well, i mean, they do have a genocidal ideology of storage towards russians. and so the idea of it's going to

make it difficult to imagine how this can be you can reintegrate this country in any, in the way that it was before. so the nazi element is real. they really do downplayed in the west, especially once the war started. and this just goes back to the u. s. tradition of backing. really anybody on the ground, whether it's mafia groups or g haughty groups? italian fascists, german nazi, we slipped af, after the war, japanese alter nationalist, basically, japanese fascists, korean, fascist, ultra writers, taiwanese, all these groups that we use and there. and i would even throw, throw in the 31 flavors of jihad ism, in syria for example, you know, supporting the worst the elements are. let me go back to adrian. i mean, you've already used the word in the program. i think it's really appropriate. rebranding as the as off battalion, for example, you know, and it was very curious, a very few people in western media commented on it. so landscape was asked this a few months ago. what about these battalions and ultra nationally said they are

who they are. i mean, he didn't even try to football at guys are, is that true? they are, that's what they are. and everybody knows that we know that a congress during the trump era, you know, when appropriations were being made there, were congress members saying, no, we can't give money to these group that was law. and then under the, under the, by the ministration, it was changed. you know where you can fund these people know, one can claim they don't know about this. and if you go prior to 2014, a lot of these figures that are in places of power. they were condemned by the european union. but the european union, it says nothing. now let's go back to london. oh, yes, i said, sure. i mean, this, we go back to, i don't know, one or 2 years ago in, i mean, the western mainstream media was required to, you know, open about the noisy problem, you cry, even the atlantic council, which is,

who is about a russian question. so there's no doubt about it. also we have to bear in mind that the very prominent journalist polish jewish journalists in, in poland, can start to give it to writing for many years for a butcher, which is a very famous and very popular newspaper in poland. resign due to the fact a very editorial board of the. busy of the newspaper was forcing him to re brown the neo nazis, and he was assisting to call, sped, sped, neo nazis, to rebrand them too far. right. so i myself of jewish heritage and i don't feel all right with what is happening. and there is a lot of talking among the jewish population in poland and in united kingdom as well as those who are trying to somehow go against

a mainstream. they read off the label as you know this little do, i mean i'm loyal to the history of my family. i'm loyal to the tragedy that happened in all the polish soil when the german nazi occupied opponent and my ancestors in the ghetto, in august and friends of mine, are put in gas chambers. so i'm loyal to the, to the history of my family and the history of part of my family. so i don't quite get why, you know, the commission is being legalized and somehow, you know, he's a color coast denial. if we go back to the pair research articles from 2020, written by the exec goes a book. he published very, very important article in the journal eastern european politics and society where

he call the genocide in a holocaust. so people like on many cool, a former ambassador of ukraine to germany now has been promoted to be my yes he's, he's been promoted and he's a and he's a v p for 40 minutes, then. great. so he's a holocaust deniers. is something like this would happen in, i don't know any european country, trust me, the media, the mainstream media, the politicians will destroy me, but i don't, i do all that address and it will be, you know, they're, they're going to hold it all. there is a higher cause here. ok, and i me go back to aaron here. they're willing, perfectly willing to accept the holocaust deniers, if it, um, i advances their agenda to, to have the collective west attack russia that, that's perfectly acceptable to them. they have no moral scruples whatsoever. aaron

. right, i mean, this just gets into the a morality or morality of the pinnacle of the american elite. if you look at the fascists in the 1st place, mussolini got $100000000.00 loan from j. p. morgan. and henry luce of time magazine sort of wrote a glowingly about him at the time. john foster dulles, representing people connected to sullivan cromwell's law firm. he broker the large bond sale internationally for the german nazi regime under adolf hitler, which helps germany to re arm. and the idea was that this was a, a bulwark against the soviet russian communism. and the u. s. it was the u. s. that was, and standard oil that was selling all the oil to the japanese when they were sweeping across, you know, up through,

up to the point where they invaded fridge into china. so they were fueling these japanese wars in, in china, especially. so we supported them then, and then we, we turn to get them to basically take over the fascists parts of the, of the global empire and really make japan and germany into satellites and so on. but we scoop up a lot of these nazi's and file button, but here and i thought it was about democracy. sorry, i didn't know this here. ok. it's all about democracy versus a top chrissy. that's what we're all told here. know, and we both of my guess here are giving the, the real that, you know, pulling away the layers and saying really what the truth is. and the in the western publics have to learn more about this. if they don't, they don't have a moral conscience. i'm going to jump in here gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team. the

the lou needs to come to the russian state will never be tied up on the most landscape with anyone else with will ban in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on to russia for date and r t spoke back. given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with

me, ah, watching it was a shout now shorter one, and i'm not going to stay like a finance national z m a l look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order is a conflict with the 1st law. show your identification. we should be very careful

about artificial intelligence. point o, b a c is to place trust or rather than say, a serious job with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with obama protective own existence with ah, welcome back to cross sac. were all things are considered on peter labelle tremendous . we're discussing ukraine. ah. okay, now we're joined by garland nixon in washington. he's a political and i was welcome to the program in the 1st part of the program, maryland. we talked about the intentional whitewashing of fascist and pat neo

fascist elements in ukraine, focusing on the personality of stepan ben data with whose birthday the $104.00 foot 14th was celebrated officially by the ukrainians on the 1st of the of the year. but you know, one of the things that, you know, the, one of the reasons why this white wash can continue is because the west does not want to come to terms with the illegal, the open takeover of power in february of 2014. that is the origins of this, aaron was right in the beginning of the program saying, you know, these are a minority of people. yes. but they are very powerful positions and have very, very powerful backers in the west. ok. so i mean, without a honest discussion about what happened with the legal takeover of power in february 2014, a qu, we're never going to get anywhere because the, this with the, they were the storm troopers quite literally a bringing that you legal process to for wishon, garland. well, and you know, it's far worse than that. the united states has

a position. the u. s. empire show us a has a position here that it must hide from its people. the information war of the united states is one that is used to hide from the actual american people. the truth here, the reality is your correct. there is a minority of the far right faster still growing at the behest of the united states . and that by the support of the united states, but the actual numbers of people in ukraine who are far right fast just aren't as high as many would think. however, they derive their power from the u. s. empire. empire, they were empowered after 2014. they were integrated into the military after 2014, when the u. s. took over. so the u. s. is fighting in information war 2, mainly to ensure that the american people cannot look at this conflict through historical context. because that would expose the extremely immoral and unethical position that the united states is in here. you know, erin, if we go back to go back to our guest in philadelphia, well,

you know that there's the narrative. is that suddenly unprovoked? on february 20, a february of last year, russia invaded ukraine. that's the western narrative. but the origins of this conflict go all the way back to 2014, with the illegal takeover of power against the unicode which government and what was the 1st thing the the qu government did they passed very stringent anti russian language laws? no wonder the people of the dog bass said wear out of here, and the people in crimea said exactly the same thing. they were the ones that voted for, you know, coach in the 1st place. this narrative never makes it. it doesn't even make the 13th paragraph and what is very rarely mention is the 8 years prior to february of last year. up to 15000 people died in the don bass and they were killed by the care of government backed by the west. go ahead, eric. right. think who is of 20?

14 is the key moment to understand what has happened here and invariably gets lied about in the u. s. media if i don't know anyone who is a long time observer of u. s. foreign policy and especially of the clandestine state and who is looked extensively at the cruise and over those over the years, who has not come to the conclusion that made on was a u. s. operation. they had all the same basic elements that they used to oversee the government of iran in 1953 massive street protests, false like violence, and then key officials who were bribed and on the side of the cooper waters. so this is very straightforward. i mean it's even more obvious in this case because you had the secretary or state department official victorian knew and passing out cookies to anti government protesters. it's very straightforward and it's never discussed. and so the debate in the u. s. is kind of a make believe debate to the extent that there is

a debate and it's which is normal and in the u. s. it, it really is a top down policy making system as far as, especially as far as foreign policy goes. and academics who point this out as a guy, i've been catching off ski at the university of auto and he had a paper that went through peer review and was set to be published. and, and editor basically stepped in and said notices. we can't publish this for political reasons basically. so this is a, it's a tablet thing in the west, and it just means that the debate in the west is a make believe debate. yeah, it's all make me a real, you know, when i, when i mentioned to people about the minsk accords, i get a blank look. well, what's that? ok. it sounds like prop again to them is because no one is ever educated about them whatsoever. but like i said, this conflict has been going on for going into 9 years right now. and that is the context that it has to be put into. and, and we have to be very fair here. when the russians warned the west that this was

going to happen, they repeatedly warned that they would take measures to counter the west expansion of nato up to its doorstep, and it was completely ignored. what i'm saying address, there's a hell of a lot of context here. that never makes it into the public debate in the west. well, the interesting piece of that you've mentioned means agreements. but i'm sure the other part of this, and you're so aware that recently i'm going to merkel and give an interview in the and, and how long you san jose francois molanda also well, a whole long gave an interview to kids independent. 3 just confirming what she said in her interview. and basically she said that from the very beginning it was a good spot. they knew that they need to give some time to, to that you create new military and, you know, loss is, you know, the strength for the position. these are v a,

russia. so we are, i think the russian people and so many people in the west are quite naive in thinking that certain agreements are worth, you know, being, you know, i mean, the politicians in the west are trustworthy in the way that if they make an agreement, disagree will be broken, but she confirmed in this interview. done any, any agreement with the way it's worthless. i mean it in 2014, they already knew that dismiss agreements don't mean anything to, to the western side, into the ukrainian side. they were just deceiving a. 2 russia, so how the russian federation can trust with it in the future. in my opinion, there's no trust and these it reckless interviews, because if you are

a lawyer at least try to just prolong and keep online, but don't say out loud. because at the moment, france and germany are discredited, in my humble opinion. well, i mean, gentlemen, to all, to my 3 gas and to my audience here, that's why this conflict is going to, and very differently than the west expects. because russia does not have an interlocutor that it can trust, because we have repeated lies. that's what is going to make ending this conflict, which it will end. but it will be with almost no input from the west, for the reasons that ariel is just said. garland, let me go to you, i mean, the west of supporting fascist and best take elements in ukraine. ok. but i find it my friend very, very peculiar that in the context of like an american politics. you know, it's so easy for people to say he's of ashes. he's a fact, you know, he's, i trumping all of this stuff here. i don't want to get into domestic american politics, not right now, but it's, i find it really be kill year. that how easy people will throw the term around as

a slur, but they won't even open their eyes to see real fascist in ukraine, that the u. s. is supporting in funding. garland and i do think there's some level of wilful, willful ignorance. and of course, in the american, a court of law, willful ignorance is treated as knowledge. it's treat if you, if you, if a court finds that you are willfully ignorant, then you are treated the same as if, you know, and so the responsibility is there in the united states as people struggle with these 2 realities in that they were, you know, joe biden comes out and says, i'm running because of charlottesville and i'm fighting against the nazis. and we've got to stop nazis. and of course, we're sending unlimited money to knobs nazis. and then people have to say, well, there are no nazi there. of course, there's all this information and data all around. so again, the importance of the information war here against the american people, is to ensure that the american people don't come to grips with the reality of what

they're facing. however, i'm here in the united states. i'm telling you i do radio on both coast all over the place. i can tell you that is changing. i can tell you that the questions are starting to get louder, and particularly with the economic pain that americans are, are up against. so while it may appear based on the mainstream media and what our politicians are saying that the american people have no clue and are going along locally. there is a growing contingent of americans who are highly suspicious of what's going on and the push back and started. i don't know how long the neocons can hold onto this disaster to this tiger that they have by the tail that they can't let go. and they can't hold onto, you know, aaron, rapidly running out of time. but when russia started, it's a special military operation in ukraine. it said it had 2 objectives. the demilitarization of ukraine and d. nazi vacation of ukraine, than the nazi cation element was in the west could not comprehend. but it's easy to

comprehend that the, the regime in care of is not a mental walker that the russians take seriously. it's because they're completely dependent on the west, and the only way. they're not people that you can trust. lensky ran as president as a, as a peace maker. and he was cowed by these fascist battalions. and this is where we've ended up. go ahead, aaron. yes i understand that he was one of his big backers was a an oligarch who is also a big a's of founder. so you have to wonder how much, how lockers, alamo sky? yes. go ahead. you have to wonder how much they ever intended to achieve it. so let him achieve his support, you know, promise mission of peace here. but i think that a, a bigger maybe a more fundamental issue here is that a historical understanding of fascism where in the u. s absorbs not just the jap, not just japan and germany as the ends of it's sort of global empire,

you know, axial ends on each side of the razor. but also it takes, they're not, they're fascist personnel and some of the worst butchers of that regime. and to re purposes them against, you know, communist china and soviet union. and this is so in a way it takes up the fascist project of domination of the globe blood via you know, imperialist hedge mon and, well, you know, here in the new era where i am but the, you that with the russian people thought they different. they had defeated fascism in europe 70 years ago. they feel like they have to do it again and kind of echoing your thoughts there, gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests and watch it in philadelphia and in london. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at archy. see you next time. remember rostock with

to day, i'm authorizing the additional strong sanction foreign companies. quitting russia, design a license, open atm console, blantan banks disconnected from the international payment system. the social hoppey journal donna and euro exchange rates followed minneapolis sellable up article go more so so carbon would know what the committee met, the bulk of the bill from that is the current. can you say, i don't know what you're seeing the jail a couple of months volume in russian business overcome this song? c. yeah, i bought it to the nazi to huddle. she instrument, she tells me. don't press voice bullshit, national productive notches steel. osh, a mere bull, what i see, i put back on cell when you come when you with i've already got any of your mind or just eating out, but i, she's appraisal. i need to have a cost to get

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